For the first time, Karax and his array of advanced protoss weaponry are now available for you to utilize in Co-op Missions. In the future, additional commanders will be offered for purchase, but as the first commander being added to Co-op Missions, we’re giving Karax away absolutely free to all Legacy of the Void players. So hop into a game and combine Karax’s engineering prowess with your combat capabilities to seize victory alongside your ally. Now let’s take a look at what Karax the Phase-smith has in his repertoire.
I think it's reasonable. You can't expect free content, that's simply not how the real world works. Some argue the game is incomplete and this stuff should be free for that reason, but I believe the campaign alone was worth the $40 price tag.
Though I am curious what their price point will be. I wouldn't mind about $2-3 per commander. If it ends up $5+ then I'm going to be very choosey on which ones I get. Of Course they may offer bundles of commanders as well. Maybe even seasonal sales on commanders, though that would be a little annoying to me.
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
Ermm... He is getting carrier because of the carriers auxiliary ability, the repair drones. Carriers have always been an indirect fire unit. Virtually the entirety of Karax kit is indirect combat.
Also, I hate to say this, but I'm almost certain the first paid commander will be Alarak, due to his popularity.
I'm not sure what you are referring to. So far, every unit for each toss faction has been pretty accurate. All of Artanis units are direct combat units, he is pretty much a sledgehammer. Vorazun is all overpowered cloak stuff. Karax is pretty much the Robo dude, with massive defenses, and super siege units.
@ArcaneDurandel: GoI mean giving Karax purifier units, a nerazim defense turret and the nerazim immortal ability. The nerazim stuff are only passable because there is no other nerazim hero to be used, but they probably have Fenix in their list. Think about it, with the Sentinel and Energizer already used, Gateway units for Fenix would be Adept and Instigator, the only robo unit left is the Disruptor and the only Stargate unit is the purifier version of the Tempest (but it was already given to Artanis in standard version).
Now, do you think they will make more purifier units or, just shove in other random units to complete his list?
That's a really good point about Alarak. That does give him a good chance of coming out sooner. Still, I could also see them wanting to do a terran and zerg commander before releasing another protoss.
I could see them reusing units among different commanders, but just putting them in different combinations. And of course different hero/spear abilities also mix things up. It'd be fun to be able to call down fenix like in campaign.
Correct, expectations and inflation and salaries all went up. Also, in the past, what usually happened is the game was shipped, 80% of the staff was laid off, and a handful of people were kept to do maintenance. Now, they do DLC and can keep the staff, and retain the experience/knowledge.
Hopefully this will put to ease all those people who were begging blizz to add microtransactions into game so that cash flows and game keeps on being supported.
Though with mission variety that co-op has now I wouldn't purchase a commander (there are more commanders than there are missions and all missions are time trials, with only temple of the past somewhat standing out).
Maybe if they add something like co-op mini-campaigns or co-op mastery missions or co-op lore missions..
I wouldn't be surprised if Fenix is added if they do have him have Sentinels too but possibly with some new ability.
I think the units chosen for Karax all make sense. Even giving the Khaydarin Monolith makes sense as there is a comment in the campaign when you first get it about how quickly he adapted it for their use and as you say barring bringing back the dead there's no other Nerazim commanders they can use (kinda sad really that there are so few named Nerazim now...)
The difficulty for Fenix is how to make him different from Artanis? Based on his abilities in the campaign and his personality he seems like he'd be based around barreling into the enemy, a brawler if you will. Though it raises a fun mental image if he were to get the Summon Fenix ability... "I summon... ME!"
An interesting thing I could see revived for a commander is in the Void campaign files there are upgrades that suggest the Immortal at one point would have had a self ressurection ability (like the Sentinel or Thor in WoL)
I do wonder if they might bring back Urun who got sadly forgotten in the campaign as a fleet commander? Selendis might fit for that role too though there are potentially lore issues with her, depending on how much they worry about the rough timeframe Co-op missions have (the Shakuras Temple mission already standing out)
I also think a ranged-focusd Protoss army could be interesting so Adepts but no Zealots (perhaps this faction would have some of the requirements/cost of Adepts reduced to balance) simply to mix things up a bit :)
Correct, expectations and inflation and salaries all went up. Also, in the past, what usually happened is the game was shipped, 80% of the staff was laid off, and a handful of people were kept to do maintenance. Now, they do DLC and can keep the staff, and retain the experience/knowledge.
Except that's not really the case here. A group of 2-3 people could make new commanders. This argument only works if the DLC includes every aspect that was also included in the creation of the original game. In which case we're talking mostly expansion-sized additions. These 'additional commander' updates seem to add about as much content as, say, the Dungeon Keeper 2 1.7 Update which added a new creature and a new trap to the game. And which was free.
Don't get me wrong: especially if the commander missions are f2p through the arcade, a small cost for these commanders specifically isn't necessarily a terrible thing. Just don't forget that developers are asking money for added content/experience that would've been free a dozen or so years ago. That has nothing to do with inflation or salaries, it's simply a shift in how much developers can take their playerbase for granted and it's been a bad practice for years now.
I don't think the units will be exclusive of one unit. For exemple, Queen are for Kerrigan and Zagara, Observer for Artanis and Karax, Siege Tank for Raynor and Swann, Photon Cannon for all Protoss commanders. But yhea, I think Karax can have Istigator and Sentry and give Adept and Energizer for Fenix/Talandar, and for Nerazim still left Zeratul.
P.S. I heard the next commander will be Horner, this is true?
I suppose ultimately the proof will be in how long SC2 remains supported with new content beyond Void's release window.
That's the major thing I can see DLC supporting over the old model. It may also be worth considering the known DLC content collectively. Right now we don't know the prices of commanders or unit skins (something talked about at BlizzCon that seems likely to also be DLC to me) are, but it is quite likely there is a lot of overlap between those working on Co-op Commanders/Missions, Singleplayer Mission Packs and Unit Skins. The money from these various DLCs quite likely will support each other - I doubt they'll ringfence money from New Commanders for example and not let that money be used for the other two types of DLC in the same way money from Nova Covert Ops and any other mission packs may well also help pay for new Co-op Commanders and Unit Skins.
Also for those who feel the prices are too much I would suggest looking at Heroes of the Storm's example. It has bundles that work out cheaper overall and frequently has sales for a selection of heroes, skins etc. In fact right now till the end of the year there's 50% off everything. I would not be at all surprised if going forward there will be similar things done for SC2 DLC content, especially when there's more of it out there. Kinda like how on Steam if you can't/don't want to buy something for full price it will inevitably come on sale sooner or later.
Ultimately of course all this stuff IS optional. Unit skins will be purely aesthetic, not having a given commander does not greatly disadvantage the average player in co-op and the Nova Mission packs are singleplayer only and the multiplayer content of it is purely aesthetic in nature.
Also for those who feel the prices are too much I would suggest looking at Heroes of the Storm's example. It has bundles that work out cheaper overall and frequently has sales for a selection of heroes, skins etc. In fact right now till the end of the year there's 50% off everything. I would not be at all surprised if going forward there will be similar things done for SC2 DLC content, especially when there's more of it out there. Kinda like how on Steam if you can't/don't want to buy something for full price it will inevitably come on sale sooner or later.
Ultimately of course all this stuff IS optional. Unit skins will be purely aesthetic, not having a given commander does not greatly disadvantage the average player in co-op and the Nova Mission packs are singleplayer only and the multiplayer content of it is purely aesthetic in nature.
At this point I feel like I'm playing the devil's advocate, but... no, these things aren't really all that 'optional'? The Nova missions are exactly as optional as Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void were; they add gameplay content and deepen out the story. There's just less content to go around. Having a commander is practically identical to owning a specific hero in a MOBA, but here you won't (may not?) be able to pay in-game currency for them.
The thing is, triple A companies are not known for handling microtransactions well, and though I had hope Blizzard would do it better that hope has so far been in vain. Their vagueness about Overwatch was a bad decision at the least, if not an indication of what's to come, and Heroes of the Storm's monetization scheme is terrible; it's in-game currency seems pretty fair, but the average skin is 10 euro's whilst not on sale. The same price goes for buying champions. That's just outright ridiculous if you ask me.
While I don't think charging some money for the additional commanders and Nova update is per definition unfair, I feel like content exactly like that would've been free a dozen years ago. At this point, I'd maybe pay 1 or 2 bucks for a commander (if I actually played), and 5-8 bucks for the Nova missions. I typed that up without looking, and wanted to follow it up with "how much are you willing to bet that they'll be charging at least double of that?" before I realized the Nova mission prices might already be up. And they are in fact charging more than double for what I view as fair. If Blizzard makes 7,50 for one level, why haven't any of us been able to monetize any of our maps yet? If we'd actually get some campaign support, I'm sure a couple of you could whip up content that's easily on par with the Nova missions (assuming they are more or less equal to the regular campaigns).
@ArcaneDurandel: Go
Except that's not really the case here. A group of 2-3 people could make new commanders.
Don't get me wrong: especially if the commander missions are f2p through the arcade, a small cost for these commanders specifically isn't necessarily a terrible thing. Just don't forget that developers are asking money for added content/experience that would've been free a dozen or so years ago. That has nothing to do with inflation or salaries, it's simply a shift in how much developers can take their playerbase for granted and it's been a bad practice for years now.
Except years ago, you didn't expect high quality sound, high quality voice actors, 3d models, writing, and unique art assets. People just recycled a ton. That's why the current commanders are free, they are just recycled campaign stuff so far. But the moment they start making unique models to that commander, along with custom lines (They already revamped and added new dialog/characters to coop), and unique mechanics, then no, 3 people can't do, it just got raised to about 10+ people (VO, tech designer to make code/data, game designer to design the mission and commander, UI people to redo UI to accommodate the commander, artist for new portraits, or buttons, and someone coordinating all that).
We, as modders, could certainly make a new commander, we would just be recycling much of Blizzards's assets in the process.
Again, expectations have gone up, thus the salaries and costs have gone up, so it has to be paid for now. Before, you accepted that the artwork and assets got recycled all over, and thus it was free. Now, we expect far less recycling, and are outraged when recycling is done. You can certainly still get free content for games, most of that is now on mobile. Also, we expect this content in a timely fashion, and not buggy. Modders tend to fail on both those counts, and free stuff routinely has both of those issues. Good Fast Cheap, choose 2, still holds here.
(I wrote this before Arcane posted but I don't have time to edit it, sorry if it goes over the same ground)
@Mozared: Go
I don't see how these campaigns are any more or less optional than the main expansion content. Buying ANYTHING is optional and unlike the main campaign this is more of a side-story so while it will expand/continue some of the story it isn't quite as cliff-hanger-ish as each pack will be it's own story. I never said it didn't add anything to the story but it's ultimately no different than buying the next book in a series (or perhaps more accurately in this case buying a side-story novella that fleshes out a given character - Nova and Valerian in this case)
From a multiplayer perspective (not one I admittedly view from - I'm very much a singleplayer player) Nova Covert ops adds a portrait and an optional unit skin.
I'm sure someone might bring up the post release missions from StarCraft 1, however a major difference here I feel is that those did not have new voice acting or cutscenes, nor new unit artwork, (also worth nothing several of the Enslavers missions even re-used maps from cut missions in StarCraft 1)
You bring up monetizing mods and yes that would be a great thing to happen and hopefully will. Fan campaigns may even be better (for a certain value of better of course) than the Blizzard made campaigns, however as modders do generally make these things in their spare time it will take much longer as they also have to make a living as opposed to Blizzard made maps which are by their very nature being made by people who do this for a living. Official free content is great but would take a similar amount of time as a fan made map as it would be made when the people involved are not busy working on other content they'll actually sell.
So if that means paying money to get more singleplayer content (which as I say is my main source of enjoyment in StarCraft) and support a company that has given me countless hours of fun I'm happy to do so.
I honestly do not see how any of the other content I spoke of is anything less than optional to a player for the reasons I've already stated. They give no advantage against other players in multiplayer and while I'm sure deep analyzing might mean one paid commander might prove better for a given mission due to their specific combination of tech and abilities that's not the same as the type of DLC that is essentially an 'I win' button.
All of that aside, as others have said already the economy is in a very different place now, not to mention making games is also much more expensive now, so even before you include profits (which any company in the world will want, this does not make them evil) there's more work and more people that need to be paid for. To be frank we're probably still paying less per person than the creatives working on the games deserve for their work and this idea that people and companies who make games should just get a pittance for their work disgusts me.
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Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19975211/karax-now-available-in-legacy-of-the-void-co-op-missions-12-15-2015
I think it's reasonable. You can't expect free content, that's simply not how the real world works. Some argue the game is incomplete and this stuff should be free for that reason, but I believe the campaign alone was worth the $40 price tag.
Though I am curious what their price point will be. I wouldn't mind about $2-3 per commander. If it ends up $5+ then I'm going to be very choosey on which ones I get. Of Course they may offer bundles of commanders as well. Maybe even seasonal sales on commanders, though that would be a little annoying to me.
If they are as poorly planned as Karax I will save some money. They didn't even think about saving the units for their right factions.
I believe Coop Missions can be played with a free license, so I wouldnt be surprised if they adopt F2P prices
Go play Antioch Chronicles Remastered!
Also, coming soon, Antioch Episode 3: Thoughts in Chaos!
Dont like mapster's ugly white? Try Mapster's Classic Skin!
@SoulFilcher:
Pissed me off, he should be getting Sentinel, Instigator, energizer, colossus, mirage, tempest.
I was expecting carrier to go to someone else
http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nolanstars-textures/
Be sure to check out the extension mod: Hots Custom Map support on NA and EU, Despite the name it greatly expands the roster of options for the default 3 races and is updated all the way to NCO.
@nolanstar: Go
Well he was the commander dude for the carrier campaign mission.
@nolanstar: Go
Ermm... He is getting carrier because of the carriers auxiliary ability, the repair drones. Carriers have always been an indirect fire unit. Virtually the entirety of Karax kit is indirect combat.
Also, I hate to say this, but I'm almost certain the first paid commander will be Alarak, due to his popularity.
@SoulFilcher: Go
I'm not sure what you are referring to. So far, every unit for each toss faction has been pretty accurate. All of Artanis units are direct combat units, he is pretty much a sledgehammer. Vorazun is all overpowered cloak stuff. Karax is pretty much the Robo dude, with massive defenses, and super siege units.
@ArcaneDurandel: GoI mean giving Karax purifier units, a nerazim defense turret and the nerazim immortal ability. The nerazim stuff are only passable because there is no other nerazim hero to be used, but they probably have Fenix in their list. Think about it, with the Sentinel and Energizer already used, Gateway units for Fenix would be Adept and Instigator, the only robo unit left is the Disruptor and the only Stargate unit is the purifier version of the Tempest (but it was already given to Artanis in standard version).
Now, do you think they will make more purifier units or, just shove in other random units to complete his list?
It was in the 90s and early 00s. For some reason free updates with anything other than bugfixes simply aren't good enough anymore.
@ArcaneDurandel: Go
That's a really good point about Alarak. That does give him a good chance of coming out sooner. Still, I could also see them wanting to do a terran and zerg commander before releasing another protoss.
@SoulFilcher: Go
I could see them reusing units among different commanders, but just putting them in different combinations. And of course different hero/spear abilities also mix things up. It'd be fun to be able to call down fenix like in campaign.
@Mozared: Go
I'm having a hard time following your second sentence, but I'm also going on a small amount of sleep.
@Mozared: Go
Correct, expectations and inflation and salaries all went up. Also, in the past, what usually happened is the game was shipped, 80% of the staff was laid off, and a handful of people were kept to do maintenance. Now, they do DLC and can keep the staff, and retain the experience/knowledge.
Hopefully this will put to ease all those people who were begging blizz to add microtransactions into game so that cash flows and game keeps on being supported.
Though with mission variety that co-op has now I wouldn't purchase a commander (there are more commanders than there are missions and all missions are time trials, with only temple of the past somewhat standing out).
Maybe if they add something like co-op mini-campaigns or co-op mastery missions or co-op lore missions..
I wouldn't be surprised if Fenix is added if they do have him have Sentinels too but possibly with some new ability.
I think the units chosen for Karax all make sense. Even giving the Khaydarin Monolith makes sense as there is a comment in the campaign when you first get it about how quickly he adapted it for their use and as you say barring bringing back the dead there's no other Nerazim commanders they can use (kinda sad really that there are so few named Nerazim now...)
The difficulty for Fenix is how to make him different from Artanis? Based on his abilities in the campaign and his personality he seems like he'd be based around barreling into the enemy, a brawler if you will. Though it raises a fun mental image if he were to get the Summon Fenix ability... "I summon... ME!"
An interesting thing I could see revived for a commander is in the Void campaign files there are upgrades that suggest the Immortal at one point would have had a self ressurection ability (like the Sentinel or Thor in WoL)
I do wonder if they might bring back Urun who got sadly forgotten in the campaign as a fleet commander? Selendis might fit for that role too though there are potentially lore issues with her, depending on how much they worry about the rough timeframe Co-op missions have (the Shakuras Temple mission already standing out)
I also think a ranged-focusd Protoss army could be interesting so Adepts but no Zealots (perhaps this faction would have some of the requirements/cost of Adepts reduced to balance) simply to mix things up a bit :)
Except that's not really the case here. A group of 2-3 people could make new commanders. This argument only works if the DLC includes every aspect that was also included in the creation of the original game. In which case we're talking mostly expansion-sized additions. These 'additional commander' updates seem to add about as much content as, say, the Dungeon Keeper 2 1.7 Update which added a new creature and a new trap to the game. And which was free.
Don't get me wrong: especially if the commander missions are f2p through the arcade, a small cost for these commanders specifically isn't necessarily a terrible thing. Just don't forget that developers are asking money for added content/experience that would've been free a dozen or so years ago. That has nothing to do with inflation or salaries, it's simply a shift in how much developers can take their playerbase for granted and it's been a bad practice for years now.
We should totally make an Allied Mapsters map and see how many of us we could add as commanders, just to support your point of course.
I don't think the units will be exclusive of one unit. For exemple, Queen are for Kerrigan and Zagara, Observer for Artanis and Karax, Siege Tank for Raynor and Swann, Photon Cannon for all Protoss commanders. But yhea, I think Karax can have Istigator and Sentry and give Adept and Energizer for Fenix/Talandar, and for Nerazim still left Zeratul.
P.S. I heard the next commander will be Horner, this is true?
FEELSBADMAN
@Mozared: Go
I suppose ultimately the proof will be in how long SC2 remains supported with new content beyond Void's release window.
That's the major thing I can see DLC supporting over the old model. It may also be worth considering the known DLC content collectively. Right now we don't know the prices of commanders or unit skins (something talked about at BlizzCon that seems likely to also be DLC to me) are, but it is quite likely there is a lot of overlap between those working on Co-op Commanders/Missions, Singleplayer Mission Packs and Unit Skins. The money from these various DLCs quite likely will support each other - I doubt they'll ringfence money from New Commanders for example and not let that money be used for the other two types of DLC in the same way money from Nova Covert Ops and any other mission packs may well also help pay for new Co-op Commanders and Unit Skins.
Also for those who feel the prices are too much I would suggest looking at Heroes of the Storm's example. It has bundles that work out cheaper overall and frequently has sales for a selection of heroes, skins etc. In fact right now till the end of the year there's 50% off everything. I would not be at all surprised if going forward there will be similar things done for SC2 DLC content, especially when there's more of it out there. Kinda like how on Steam if you can't/don't want to buy something for full price it will inevitably come on sale sooner or later.
Ultimately of course all this stuff IS optional. Unit skins will be purely aesthetic, not having a given commander does not greatly disadvantage the average player in co-op and the Nova Mission packs are singleplayer only and the multiplayer content of it is purely aesthetic in nature.
At this point I feel like I'm playing the devil's advocate, but... no, these things aren't really all that 'optional'? The Nova missions are exactly as optional as Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void were; they add gameplay content and deepen out the story. There's just less content to go around. Having a commander is practically identical to owning a specific hero in a MOBA, but here you won't (may not?) be able to pay in-game currency for them.
The thing is, triple A companies are not known for handling microtransactions well, and though I had hope Blizzard would do it better that hope has so far been in vain. Their vagueness about Overwatch was a bad decision at the least, if not an indication of what's to come, and Heroes of the Storm's monetization scheme is terrible; it's in-game currency seems pretty fair, but the average skin is 10 euro's whilst not on sale. The same price goes for buying champions. That's just outright ridiculous if you ask me.
While I don't think charging some money for the additional commanders and Nova update is per definition unfair, I feel like content exactly like that would've been free a dozen years ago. At this point, I'd maybe pay 1 or 2 bucks for a commander (if I actually played), and 5-8 bucks for the Nova missions. I typed that up without looking, and wanted to follow it up with "how much are you willing to bet that they'll be charging at least double of that?" before I realized the Nova mission prices might already be up. And they are in fact charging more than double for what I view as fair. If Blizzard makes 7,50 for one level, why haven't any of us been able to monetize any of our maps yet? If we'd actually get some campaign support, I'm sure a couple of you could whip up content that's easily on par with the Nova missions (assuming they are more or less equal to the regular campaigns).
Except years ago, you didn't expect high quality sound, high quality voice actors, 3d models, writing, and unique art assets. People just recycled a ton. That's why the current commanders are free, they are just recycled campaign stuff so far. But the moment they start making unique models to that commander, along with custom lines (They already revamped and added new dialog/characters to coop), and unique mechanics, then no, 3 people can't do, it just got raised to about 10+ people (VO, tech designer to make code/data, game designer to design the mission and commander, UI people to redo UI to accommodate the commander, artist for new portraits, or buttons, and someone coordinating all that).
We, as modders, could certainly make a new commander, we would just be recycling much of Blizzards's assets in the process.
Again, expectations have gone up, thus the salaries and costs have gone up, so it has to be paid for now. Before, you accepted that the artwork and assets got recycled all over, and thus it was free. Now, we expect far less recycling, and are outraged when recycling is done. You can certainly still get free content for games, most of that is now on mobile. Also, we expect this content in a timely fashion, and not buggy. Modders tend to fail on both those counts, and free stuff routinely has both of those issues. Good Fast Cheap, choose 2, still holds here.
(I wrote this before Arcane posted but I don't have time to edit it, sorry if it goes over the same ground) @Mozared: Go
I don't see how these campaigns are any more or less optional than the main expansion content. Buying ANYTHING is optional and unlike the main campaign this is more of a side-story so while it will expand/continue some of the story it isn't quite as cliff-hanger-ish as each pack will be it's own story. I never said it didn't add anything to the story but it's ultimately no different than buying the next book in a series (or perhaps more accurately in this case buying a side-story novella that fleshes out a given character - Nova and Valerian in this case)
From a multiplayer perspective (not one I admittedly view from - I'm very much a singleplayer player) Nova Covert ops adds a portrait and an optional unit skin.
I'm sure someone might bring up the post release missions from StarCraft 1, however a major difference here I feel is that those did not have new voice acting or cutscenes, nor new unit artwork, (also worth nothing several of the Enslavers missions even re-used maps from cut missions in StarCraft 1)
You bring up monetizing mods and yes that would be a great thing to happen and hopefully will. Fan campaigns may even be better (for a certain value of better of course) than the Blizzard made campaigns, however as modders do generally make these things in their spare time it will take much longer as they also have to make a living as opposed to Blizzard made maps which are by their very nature being made by people who do this for a living. Official free content is great but would take a similar amount of time as a fan made map as it would be made when the people involved are not busy working on other content they'll actually sell.
So if that means paying money to get more singleplayer content (which as I say is my main source of enjoyment in StarCraft) and support a company that has given me countless hours of fun I'm happy to do so.
I honestly do not see how any of the other content I spoke of is anything less than optional to a player for the reasons I've already stated. They give no advantage against other players in multiplayer and while I'm sure deep analyzing might mean one paid commander might prove better for a given mission due to their specific combination of tech and abilities that's not the same as the type of DLC that is essentially an 'I win' button.
All of that aside, as others have said already the economy is in a very different place now, not to mention making games is also much more expensive now, so even before you include profits (which any company in the world will want, this does not make them evil) there's more work and more people that need to be paid for. To be frank we're probably still paying less per person than the creatives working on the games deserve for their work and this idea that people and companies who make games should just get a pittance for their work disgusts me.