Upon reflection, I think that Valve does treat modding more friendly, simply because they do not in any shape or form, compete with modders, since Valve no longer makes games of any kind. Valve is more akin to things like Salesforce, who provide platforms and service, but do not directly produce anything.
Anyone game making company, be it Blizzard, Activision, Bioware, etc. are competing with modders, whether either side likes it or not. Both are in the business of producing content, and although one can make the argument that modding promote the original game and leads to greater sales, one can also make the argument the original game at that point isn't a game, just another platform, with prefabbed assets and game engine, no different then hopping over and going on a small shopping spree at the Unity Store after DLing Unity. This further raises the question: Is there any future for game companies of any kind, if their content is valued so low, and the value people get out of them is their platform and tools, not the initial content offering?
The point I'm sort of getting at is that it seems like game companies should cease making games and join the rest of the software world in no longer providing any content, only tools. Obviously is working well for Valve, for Amazon (via AWS), Microsoft (in many areas), Salesforce, and the list goes on and on. Actually making anything seems to be a dumb thing, since your decisions will inevitably be hated, and people apparently are fine with the quality produced by freelancers and part time people. Not to mention, people are increasingly unwilling to pay the cost for game development, which has only gone up, while prices (relative to inflation) have stayed flat (which results in companies doing sleight of hand (DLC, break things up, etc.) to more accurately price things, which of course is met with disdain or fury).
Something has got to give at some point. I guess games can become more like regular software, where you have pro stuff (Photoshop) where you pay a large price, but get everything you need, with freebie/easy tools that are subpar (Paint.NET, Gimp,etc.).
Vlav ehas sort of embraced modding and indie developers given their titles: Portal (narbacular drop remake), DOTA (wc3 mod remake), TF2 and CS (HL mod remakes). Its a win win thing.
This further raises the question: Is there any future for game companies of any kind, if their content is valued so low, and the value people get out of them is their platform and tools, not the initial content offering?
I think in even the worst case scenario there will always be game companies, because groups who build content eventually form into communities that create companies. A company is just a belt buckle holding in a tub of wishy washy lard. However, what you speak of already exists in the form of many middleware companies whose sole purpose is to take the responsibility of developing a game out of the hands of the developer (Havok is a basic example, but there are many companies straight up making assets for developers like Blizzard). Also see: Turbosquid, UE4/Unity marketplace, etc. Of course, there's the engines themselves as well. In a way, Steam itself also fits into this role, because it is middleware in several respects.
As a person who does mild coding, the dota editor is rather intimidating. Just finished looking around at the thing, and I will say that I am impressed as much as I am intimidated to go further into it. With the editor you have a lot of GUI to guide you that I took for granted, it is pretty simple to find things now that I am familiar with the thing. This new Dota 2 editor however is another beast entirely. To compare the starcraft editor and the dota editor is like comparing apples to oranges. I closed the thing after 4 hours of playing around with it concluding that any modding that I did would have to be a full time endeavor that I personally just don't have the time for.
Id say it this way, in warcraft 3, making an ability was pretty simple, in starcraft 2, it was a bit more tedious and time consuming but the GUI could lead you through once you learned it, in Dota 2, you have a blank slate that you have to program the thing into in which you will initially find yourself looking at a (well put together) list of documentation to make that ability, and wait for the 2-3 mins it can take for the whole map to compile to test the darn thing.
For those who are more experienced in coding that I, have fun with it, but for now as of this moment the task of learning it is going to be too time consuming to start anything.
On the plus side it does support like 10 or 12 different cliff levels, forgot to count but I made a nice sized mountain of cliffs :)
It does not have as many assets in starcraft, so if you want to make anything truly unique visually, you will need to spend a lot of time, I am curious what people will do with the assets available.
the first time i have opened the galaxy editor, played around with it for hours and closed it just like you did with the dota editor. i just thought what the hell why can't i just create a unit as i did in wc3.
i don't think that coding an ability takes longer than connecting effects in galaxy once you are used to it. The bigger payout (more ppl, more popularity) and the outlook that they actually provide more support basically forces you to switch.
I may play around with it more in the future, but it will probably take a good year of time of on and off experimenting with the darn thing, like it did with the Galixy editor. It is certainly a next level step up from the galixy editor, demanding you to know more knowledge up front, I could not figure out how to get started with the model viewer/modifier for example (couldn't find a folder with models to edit), and could not find where I would input code for stuff(probably need to make a new folder or something). If you ever need a good terrain tho I may be able to help ;)
hmm... wonder how file sharing back and forth would work with the new system... It isn't all kept in one file like in the editor from what I have seen.
Also i don't see enough assets in dota 2 to make such a diverse worlds as you can in sc2, like desert, lava, snow, jungle, etc. Also it's more time consuming i guess, if you want to make something from scratch.
But I found “fate/stay night” and “TOUHOU Project” in dota2
also dota2 offers the diversity wc3 once had. i see alot of maps which i have played in the good old days, some still being in development. and we still play the same maps in sc2 we did 5 years ago.
also dota2 offers the diversity wc3 once had. i see alot of maps which i have played in the good old days, some still being in development. and we still play the same maps in sc2 we did 5 years ago.
It's, however, limited.
Dota2 wasn't made for controlling many units so maps of mass armies lag a lot on it. Just like fps maps have limitations on sc2
also dota2 offers the diversity wc3 once had. i see alot of maps which i have played in the good old days, some still being in development. and we still play the same maps in sc2 we did 5 years ago.
Most maps there using just slightly modified default item/hero templates so what's so exciting about it? If some people feels more into coding and making money just grab unity as Zolden said.
@Alevice: Go
I too wouldn't be surprised.
Upon reflection, I think that Valve does treat modding more friendly, simply because they do not in any shape or form, compete with modders, since Valve no longer makes games of any kind. Valve is more akin to things like Salesforce, who provide platforms and service, but do not directly produce anything.
Anyone game making company, be it Blizzard, Activision, Bioware, etc. are competing with modders, whether either side likes it or not. Both are in the business of producing content, and although one can make the argument that modding promote the original game and leads to greater sales, one can also make the argument the original game at that point isn't a game, just another platform, with prefabbed assets and game engine, no different then hopping over and going on a small shopping spree at the Unity Store after DLing Unity. This further raises the question: Is there any future for game companies of any kind, if their content is valued so low, and the value people get out of them is their platform and tools, not the initial content offering?
The point I'm sort of getting at is that it seems like game companies should cease making games and join the rest of the software world in no longer providing any content, only tools. Obviously is working well for Valve, for Amazon (via AWS), Microsoft (in many areas), Salesforce, and the list goes on and on. Actually making anything seems to be a dumb thing, since your decisions will inevitably be hated, and people apparently are fine with the quality produced by freelancers and part time people. Not to mention, people are increasingly unwilling to pay the cost for game development, which has only gone up, while prices (relative to inflation) have stayed flat (which results in companies doing sleight of hand (DLC, break things up, etc.) to more accurately price things, which of course is met with disdain or fury).
Something has got to give at some point. I guess games can become more like regular software, where you have pro stuff (Photoshop) where you pay a large price, but get everything you need, with freebie/easy tools that are subpar (Paint.NET, Gimp,etc.).
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Curse PremiumVlav ehas sort of embraced modding and indie developers given their titles: Portal (narbacular drop remake), DOTA (wc3 mod remake), TF2 and CS (HL mod remakes). Its a win win thing.
Go play Antioch Chronicles Remastered!
Also, coming soon, Antioch Episode 3: Thoughts in Chaos!
Dont like mapster's ugly white? Try Mapster's Classic Skin!
I think in even the worst case scenario there will always be game companies, because groups who build content eventually form into communities that create companies. A company is just a belt buckle holding in a tub of wishy washy lard. However, what you speak of already exists in the form of many middleware companies whose sole purpose is to take the responsibility of developing a game out of the hands of the developer (Havok is a basic example, but there are many companies straight up making assets for developers like Blizzard). Also see: Turbosquid, UE4/Unity marketplace, etc. Of course, there's the engines themselves as well. In a way, Steam itself also fits into this role, because it is middleware in several respects.
As a person who does mild coding, the dota editor is rather intimidating. Just finished looking around at the thing, and I will say that I am impressed as much as I am intimidated to go further into it. With the editor you have a lot of GUI to guide you that I took for granted, it is pretty simple to find things now that I am familiar with the thing. This new Dota 2 editor however is another beast entirely. To compare the starcraft editor and the dota editor is like comparing apples to oranges. I closed the thing after 4 hours of playing around with it concluding that any modding that I did would have to be a full time endeavor that I personally just don't have the time for.
Id say it this way, in warcraft 3, making an ability was pretty simple, in starcraft 2, it was a bit more tedious and time consuming but the GUI could lead you through once you learned it, in Dota 2, you have a blank slate that you have to program the thing into in which you will initially find yourself looking at a (well put together) list of documentation to make that ability, and wait for the 2-3 mins it can take for the whole map to compile to test the darn thing.
For those who are more experienced in coding that I, have fun with it, but for now as of this moment the task of learning it is going to be too time consuming to start anything.
On the plus side it does support like 10 or 12 different cliff levels, forgot to count but I made a nice sized mountain of cliffs :)
It does not have as many assets in starcraft, so if you want to make anything truly unique visually, you will need to spend a lot of time, I am curious what people will do with the assets available.
@joecab: Go
the first time i have opened the galaxy editor, played around with it for hours and closed it just like you did with the dota editor. i just thought what the hell why can't i just create a unit as i did in wc3.
i don't think that coding an ability takes longer than connecting effects in galaxy once you are used to it. The bigger payout (more ppl, more popularity) and the outlook that they actually provide more support basically forces you to switch.
But still, to be a successful ecosystem, you will need enough map makers.
It requires not just you, but also lots of people willing to do the switching and learn anew.
- And people are tend to be more lazy these years.
The player base is the advantage though.
@FunkyUserName: Go
I may play around with it more in the future, but it will probably take a good year of time of on and off experimenting with the darn thing, like it did with the Galixy editor. It is certainly a next level step up from the galixy editor, demanding you to know more knowledge up front, I could not figure out how to get started with the model viewer/modifier for example (couldn't find a folder with models to edit), and could not find where I would input code for stuff(probably need to make a new folder or something). If you ever need a good terrain tho I may be able to help ;)
hmm... wonder how file sharing back and forth would work with the new system... It isn't all kept in one file like in the editor from what I have seen.
@joecab: Go
Speaking of assets, historically source model formats have been a real pain in the ass to work with. I wonder if that is still the case.
All this is good for us.
Blizzard will moving on
So, Dota2 now has map editor? How is it compared to unity? Or it's high level like the sc2 one?
@egodbout: Go
"Blizzard will moving on"
I hope so much on that
But I found “fate/stay night” and “TOUHOU Project” in dota2
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=366886594 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=310066170
also dota2 offers the diversity wc3 once had. i see alot of maps which i have played in the good old days, some still being in development. and we still play the same maps in sc2 we did 5 years ago.
It's, however, limited.
Dota2 wasn't made for controlling many units so maps of mass armies lag a lot on it. Just like fps maps have limitations on sc2
Most maps there using just slightly modified default item/hero templates so what's so exciting about it? If some people feels more into coding and making money just grab unity as Zolden said.