I am actually doing my best NOT to read anything here that reveals too much about the game. I also didn't read the article at all because I desperately want NOT to be disappointed by D3 like I was when I got excited by SC2. So if I know very, very little about what's going down I'll have no expectations when I finally get a peek ;P
"basically they dont want intelligent people getting an unfair advantage over unintelligent people by allocating their stats correctly"
This is something you learn after you screw it up and have to remake your character, not intelligence. Intelligence is the ability to apply what you know to a given situation to solve a problem. You can't possibly know how to allocate your stats unless you either researched the game or have previously made that same error. Both are poor design choices.
There's also very little freedom in stat allocation. Either you do it right and power a select few stats, or you do it how you like and ultimately end up with a poor character. Again, two poor design choices.
Perfection is not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away.
----
i feel it can end up that way but seriously. you can change your stats to reflect the abilities/playstyle you want to play and itemset you want to use
now it's all locked. cookie cutter. one single path. a layer of depth gone.
another thing i read alot of people play these games for the numbers and it's pretty much true. you play to get higher level. to get better gear. to get bigger damage numbers and the versatility stats/talents/skill sets allows you to mess around and play with different things.
so no. i dont see it the same as you.
and besides. how hard was it to see in diablo 2 "all the items i need require strength, guess i should pump that... hmm im dying abit too easily. should get my hp up. mana? i dont really need that, etc" it was not difficult at all.
besides i had heared of them offering respecing. so whats the problem. i dont see it. all i see is game layers being stripped away and replaced with a cash shop that skips 90% of the game.
It took me forever to figure out that my Mage in WoW couldn't wear plate when I first tried the game. I just assumed I'd be able to use it eventually because the only similar game I played before it was Diablo 2.
How does the new skill system work?
You start with 2 active skills and you can unlock/chose new skills every few levels (around 20 active skills per class available?) and somehow you can switch your chosen skills on the fly?
I don't know. On one side I don't like it, on the other hand the argument on the first page made a lot of sense; afaik Diablo 1 and 2 are now completely owned by gold farmers and hacks - by taking this into their own hands, Blizzard inherently discourages gold farmers.
Valve does it - nobody cares.
Blizzard does it - WTF!!!! ITEM SELLING!! FUCKING ACTIVISION!!! KOTICK IS THE DEVIL!!!!!
the sold items:TF2D3
give in-game power yes[1] yes
can be obtained without paying yes yes
are dropped randomly yes yes
are also sold in in-game shop run by the company yes no
can be sold by players for money yes[2] yes
[1] - don't you dare say they are only cosmetic
[2] - reviewed and selected by Valve
Sorry but your comparison its lacking something.
When someone plays TF2 its not like he tries to get the best equip possible. Its a skill game and a good player can totally own someone worser than him even if his flamethrower does 10% more damage from behind.
In D3 all you do is farming a full set. You want to be the strongest and to get the best weapons possible.
It takes hours to farm this and once you find something you are happy you did so. But now it just looks like a waste of time if you can just buy the items for real money.
If Blizzard fails only 10% as hard as they did with Starcraft2 this game will be a disappointment.
Wouldn't it be awesome if there was gear with stats on it? That way, you could customize your character even if you didn't have skill points to allocate. Kind of like WoW.
...oh wait.
I completely agree with Eiviyn's point that removing unnecessary crap is a good thing. It makes the game more approachable and allows you to focus on the stuff that matters. I for one am withholding judgment until I get to try it for myself. You guys can have fun standing on the street corner wearing a cardboard sign about how "the end of gaming is near!" and I'll be off killing zombies or whatever.
I for one am withholding judgment until I get to try it for myself. You guys can have fun standing on the street corner wearing a cardboard sign about how "the end of gaming is near!" and I'll be off killing zombies or whatever. While wasting 60$.
TF2 can only be played online with other people. It's a pure competitive PvP game. A 10% damage bonus is a big thing. I'm fine with the way you get weapons, either grind the achievements, get a lucky drop or buy it in the shop. Perfectly fine, and exactly the same way D3 will do it (well, except the achevement grinding :P).
Btw, that flamethrower does 10% more damage from any angle. It deals instant crits from behind (a guaranteed 1-shot on the weaker classes).
Diablo is a singleplayer and Co-Op game. The PvP aspect is only an addition and the game won't be balanced around it (certainly won't be an e-sport). You're not competing against anyone else. You're not racing for world first kills. You're not trying to defeat the other team. There is no persistent, open world where you have to co-exist and meet with people like in WoW.
The gear you have influences only yourself. It's all for shits and giggles, nobody gives a crap how you got that gear and how long it took you. If that matters to you, then don't use the auction house.
That being said - the always-online DRM is stupid. Make the online option the default one and offline as an opt-in with a clear warning that you won't be able to use the char on battle.net. It's a singleplayer game and nobody should care if someone wants to cheat all the way and make a ridiculous offline char with 10000000 health and 30000000 damage.
I absolutley loved diablo 2. Hearing about that auctionhouse just makes me cringe. Buying and selling items and characters? Takes the excitement out of finding something rare. Also imagine all the asain loot farmers that will be buzzing all over the game.
@Tolkfan: Go
But now it just looks like a waste of time if you can just buy the items for real money.
Because everybody who plays Diablo "seriously" today actually farms their gear (with exceptions of course).
If you look at the current Diablo 2 playerbase, Diablo 2 today is rushing your character to lvl 80 in diablo/baal-runs, putting your stats in certain stats optimal for your build and then buying the gear needed to make that build as good as possible, because it takes too long to actually find every item required yourself. Not a lot of people actually -plays- the game anymore. Which is a shame.
What Blizzard is doing is accepting that people are playing Diablo like that, and instead of letting shady websites start up the same business in Diablo 3, they embrace it, support it themselves and wrap it in a secure and reliable method for players. While players themselves can make some money off of it as well.
Who cares if Blizzard takes a small % of that, really. They aren't putting in items and selling the power themselves which is what I am strongly against. It beats the crap out of the current system people are buying Diablo gear from. I think it's a ballsy and interesting move. If it means that much to you to not buy and sell gear, then just don't buy and/or sell gear. Go find it yourself and laugh at the lame people who aren't enjoying the game. It's not an MMO so it won't affect you as much as people think it will.
Matchmaking is also putting you up against people with equivalent gear and stats like you, so you will only notice them if you PvP after you've farmed all that gear and then you can beat the crap out of them. And you won't notice them otherwise because you will most-likely play the PvE with a few of your friends.
It's a player-run economy of supply and demand. If people start gold/gear farming just to make money the supply will be much greater than the demand and the farmers won't make as much money and might eventually give up. (They won't though.)
To each his own. I had a blast on the demo they had set up last Blizzcon. If the game's anywhere near that much fun at release I'm quite sure I'll be getting my money's worth.
I am actually doing my best NOT to read anything here that reveals too much about the game. I also didn't read the article at all because I desperately want NOT to be disappointed by D3 like I was when I got excited by SC2. So if I know very, very little about what's going down I'll have no expectations when I finally get a peek ;P
@ProzaicMuze: Go
I'm too angry to think of any other words. I think there are other swear words that I didn't use because I couldn't remember them.
I edited my previous posts for tact.
@ProzaicMuze: Go
Well it's certainly a lot of speculation. We will only know if this game is 'magic' like most Blizz games are once we try the beta for ourselves.
Quote from Eiviyn:
Quote from maverck: Go
"basically they dont want intelligent people getting an unfair advantage over unintelligent people by allocating their stats correctly"
This is something you learn after you screw it up and have to remake your character, not intelligence. Intelligence is the ability to apply what you know to a given situation to solve a problem. You can't possibly know how to allocate your stats unless you either researched the game or have previously made that same error. Both are poor design choices.
There's also very little freedom in stat allocation. Either you do it right and power a select few stats, or you do it how you like and ultimately end up with a poor character. Again, two poor design choices.
Perfection is not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away.
----
i feel it can end up that way but seriously. you can change your stats to reflect the abilities/playstyle you want to play and itemset you want to use
now it's all locked. cookie cutter. one single path. a layer of depth gone.
another thing i read alot of people play these games for the numbers and it's pretty much true. you play to get higher level. to get better gear. to get bigger damage numbers and the versatility stats/talents/skill sets allows you to mess around and play with different things.
so no. i dont see it the same as you.
and besides. how hard was it to see in diablo 2 "all the items i need require strength, guess i should pump that... hmm im dying abit too easily. should get my hp up. mana? i dont really need that, etc" it was not difficult at all.
besides i had heared of them offering respecing. so whats the problem. i dont see it. all i see is game layers being stripped away and replaced with a cash shop that skips 90% of the game.
@maverck: Go
It took me forever to figure out that my Mage in WoW couldn't wear plate when I first tried the game. I just assumed I'd be able to use it eventually because the only similar game I played before it was Diablo 2.
This. So much fail in such a short period of time, this gen has sucked for everyone.
How does the new skill system work?
You start with 2 active skills and you can unlock/chose new skills every few levels (around 20 active skills per class available?) and somehow you can switch your chosen skills on the fly?
I don't know. On one side I don't like it, on the other hand the argument on the first page made a lot of sense; afaik Diablo 1 and 2 are now completely owned by gold farmers and hacks - by taking this into their own hands, Blizzard inherently discourages gold farmers.
Oh Blizzard, you has-been money grubbing fools.
Selling of in-game items for $$$
Valve does it - nobody cares.
Blizzard does it - WTF!!!! ITEM SELLING!! FUCKING ACTIVISION!!! KOTICK IS THE DEVIL!!!!!
[1] - don't you dare say they are only cosmetic
[2] - reviewed and selected by Valve
The biggest thing about it thou is:
NO $$$ SHOPS IN HARDCORE!! So it's only for soft core people.
Sorry but your comparison its lacking something.
When someone plays TF2 its not like he tries to get the best equip possible. Its a skill game and a good player can totally own someone worser than him even if his flamethrower does 10% more damage from behind.
In D3 all you do is farming a full set. You want to be the strongest and to get the best weapons possible.
It takes hours to farm this and once you find something you are happy you did so. But now it just looks like a waste of time if you can just buy the items for real money.
If Blizzard fails only 10% as hard as they did with Starcraft2 this game will be a disappointment.
@maverck: Go
Wouldn't it be awesome if there was gear with stats on it? That way, you could customize your character even if you didn't have skill points to allocate. Kind of like WoW.
...oh wait.
I completely agree with Eiviyn's point that removing unnecessary crap is a good thing. It makes the game more approachable and allows you to focus on the stuff that matters. I for one am withholding judgment until I get to try it for myself. You guys can have fun standing on the street corner wearing a cardboard sign about how "the end of gaming is near!" and I'll be off killing zombies or whatever.
I just fixed it for you.
@h34dl4g: Go
TF2 can only be played online with other people. It's a pure competitive PvP game. A 10% damage bonus is a big thing. I'm fine with the way you get weapons, either grind the achievements, get a lucky drop or buy it in the shop. Perfectly fine, and exactly the same way D3 will do it (well, except the achevement grinding :P).
Btw, that flamethrower does 10% more damage from any angle. It deals instant crits from behind (a guaranteed 1-shot on the weaker classes).
Diablo is a singleplayer and Co-Op game. The PvP aspect is only an addition and the game won't be balanced around it (certainly won't be an e-sport). You're not competing against anyone else. You're not racing for world first kills. You're not trying to defeat the other team. There is no persistent, open world where you have to co-exist and meet with people like in WoW.
The gear you have influences only yourself. It's all for shits and giggles, nobody gives a crap how you got that gear and how long it took you. If that matters to you, then don't use the auction house.
That being said - the always-online DRM is stupid. Make the online option the default one and offline as an opt-in with a clear warning that you won't be able to use the char on battle.net. It's a singleplayer game and nobody should care if someone wants to cheat all the way and make a ridiculous offline char with 10000000 health and 30000000 damage.
I am quite surprised to notice that barely anyone here have mentioned the no mod support. Fuck that.
Go play Antioch Chronicles Remastered!
Also, coming soon, Antioch Episode 3: Thoughts in Chaos!
Dont like mapster's ugly white? Try Mapster's Classic Skin!
I absolutley loved diablo 2. Hearing about that auctionhouse just makes me cringe. Buying and selling items and characters? Takes the excitement out of finding something rare. Also imagine all the asain loot farmers that will be buzzing all over the game.
Because everybody who plays Diablo "seriously" today actually farms their gear (with exceptions of course). If you look at the current Diablo 2 playerbase, Diablo 2 today is rushing your character to lvl 80 in diablo/baal-runs, putting your stats in certain stats optimal for your build and then buying the gear needed to make that build as good as possible, because it takes too long to actually find every item required yourself. Not a lot of people actually -plays- the game anymore. Which is a shame.
What Blizzard is doing is accepting that people are playing Diablo like that, and instead of letting shady websites start up the same business in Diablo 3, they embrace it, support it themselves and wrap it in a secure and reliable method for players. While players themselves can make some money off of it as well.
Who cares if Blizzard takes a small % of that, really. They aren't putting in items and selling the power themselves which is what I am strongly against. It beats the crap out of the current system people are buying Diablo gear from. I think it's a ballsy and interesting move. If it means that much to you to not buy and sell gear, then just don't buy and/or sell gear. Go find it yourself and laugh at the lame people who aren't enjoying the game. It's not an MMO so it won't affect you as much as people think it will.
Matchmaking is also putting you up against people with equivalent gear and stats like you, so you will only notice them if you PvP after you've farmed all that gear and then you can beat the crap out of them. And you won't notice them otherwise because you will most-likely play the PvE with a few of your friends.
It's a player-run economy of supply and demand. If people start gold/gear farming just to make money the supply will be much greater than the demand and the farmers won't make as much money and might eventually give up. (They won't though.)
@h34dl4g: Go
To each his own. I had a blast on the demo they had set up last Blizzcon. If the game's anywhere near that much fun at release I'm quite sure I'll be getting my money's worth.