SPOILERS AHEAD - Make sure you've seen the video before reading through.
Okay, I've finally seen through it, now I'm ready to comment, and expect some negative backlash into this, I'm even sure I'll get a warning PM or get downright suspended for at least attempting to control my web mouth. Maybe I'm just judging by the cover. Maybe I'm bitching on a single mission when there's about 20/30 more to go. But, story wise, the first impression was literally 'Pixels' - Yes, your expectation was kind of low, but you'd never expect it'd reach an uncaringly low.
Because I honestly wished I could say a few positive things, other than the terrain, which was great. Thanks to the commentor I couldn't hear most of the mission's dialogue. Nostalgic returns like the Queen are nice, but since the model was on since HotS, I only ask: Why now it was introduced as a unit and not on the previous campaign, where even the Defiler, though untextured, was present, as were the Devourer and Guardian as well?
BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT 'PEARL HARBOR' MOTHERSHIP STUNT!? There are some action stuff which you can accept, like fighters flying around, chasing Mutalisks, but this was stepping over the line! I can't believe that the people that brought us a riveting short story and a short video relating to Artanis' doubts were the same that brought that literal BULLSHIT just to grab attention! There's action, and then there's Michael Bay action, and that was so brain-damaging that I'm wordless. Why a ship would make a curve like that, like a starfighter? Why not just it falling, a little cutscene showing it crashed, and then the warriors asking for help? Sorry, this was over the line, this time!
And, since I mentioned the short story and short video, I fear I've been fooled, somewhat. Because what I said a bit on the preview article, on that the characters would be stereotypical and such virtually came true on the introduction cinematic - Artanis is a narrow minded whom doesn't even listen to Zeratul, despite them having fought together God knows how many times, and Zeratul is literally branded as a traitor, completely IGNORING that what happened in Brood War was all Kerrigan fault and the Protoss with Artanis, which wasn't on Char, by the way, acknowledged, back then that Zeratul wasn't a deliberate murderer! And if this was enough to completely slap me in the face, about my hopes and such, then I'm honestly afraid for the rest of the campaign to come. And then the fact that Artanis wishes to investigate about it in the end, when it happened literally on his face... :(
On the mission itself, the gameplay, I don't have much to talk about. I know the tutorial may be as a precaution or done because LotV is a standalone, while HotS required WoL, I know this is the first mission and that you shouldn't throw much difficulty just right off the bat. But... Why not make this an option, instead? Literally, after the cutscene, all it'd take is a simple question of 'Activate Tutorial Mode' and yes or no, and then it spawns the literal deathball I've seen on the video, as well as remove defenses. Other stuff could be included, too, like Banelings and Sentries, I saw literally perfect situations to teach Force Fields and such. Other than that, it's normal as usual, just a-moving and grinding pretty much like it is on most first missions...
Well, that's it. I've said what I could, that the assets were nice, the tutorial could've been optional as well as Sentries should've been included, I didn't like the way the story started because of stereotypes and that Mothership stunt... That's pretty much it. Send in the flak.
BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT 'PEARL HARBOR' MOTHERSHIP STUNT!? There are some action stuff which you can accept, like fighters flying around, chasing Mutalisks, but this was stepping over the line! I can't believe that the people that brought us a riveting short story and a short video relating to Artanis' doubts were the same that brought that literal BULLSHIT just to grab attention! There's action, and then there's Michael Bay action, and that was so brain-damaging that I'm wordless. Why a ship would make a curve like that, like a starfighter? Why not just it falling, a little cutscene showing it crashed, and then the warriors asking for help? Sorry, this was over the line, this time!
I'm sorry, but, I was just speaking on the common sense of physics and stuff, y'know... That the mothership should just fall like... Every other stuff should, particularly when it can't clearly fly like a plane...
I lold at "For Aiur" huzzah. Then I was confused, what did Zeratul do to be branded as traitor? First Zeratul himself in prologue said that he'll be treated as traitor and after that we see Selendis is so in his face about it. Did I miss something? I just don't understand what's going on anymore..
As for intro, I personally hate this new old-guy-talking-in-funny-words Medivh Zeratul, so in Artanis's place I'd probably also be like "you come to me now? Right after my invasion speech, right in front of our force, talking about obscure end-of-the world things, after all the sacrafices we had to go through to get here (most likely many tensions, politics, resources. Turn back now without even trying and whatever inner issues toss had will probably escalate even more). No Zeratul, bugger off."
And when Selendis makes that remark about interference and Aiur? My god, I swear I've seen this Prophet-King introduction before, only last time the King was surrounded by advisors and nobles, but I suppose the storyline wouldn't hold then would it?
Phoenixes chasing mutalisks felt forced. Mothership doing whatever it was doing was an utter wtf moment - "oh it crashing, why, we're doing so well here" "oh it just did what? WTF, since when is mothership a space fighter jet?"
And then there were those hybrid reavers - so sick of same two hybrid models for 5 years straight. But I can live with that, just a minor annoyance.
All in all, that Eurogamer guy sounded sincere when he said that he expected/wanted war3 rehash of all races defeating big bad evil with power of friendship and jolly cooperation. I mean there is no reason to believe a journalist doing a promotion wouldn't be sincere about his expectations. So I suppose Blizz does know best what people want. So I'll just trust that whatever comes is what people want. Man I wish I could make an echo chambers for myself too, would be so fancy~
To be fair Zeratul does and always has sounded like a crazy old man in SC2. I can clearly see why all the top world leaders are always ignoring him. Heck he probably went to mengsk before the end of WoL and asked him for help too, lol. I wonder what that convo would have been like...
Well, I can't wonder, because the first thing Mengsk'd do is have everyone shoot that Protoss invader. That's literally the only scenario I can conceive.
Okay, I've finally seen through it, now I'm ready to comment, and expect some negative backlash into this, I'm even sure I'll get a warning PM or get downright suspended for at least attempting to control my web mouth.
If you really think you'd get suspended for that I worry about your view on the forum we run...
I skimmed the video - don't want any details, but wanted a bit of a look. Looks like they didn't do the story right at all then, again. Shame. It's gonna be a play and forget. Still worth it cause it's a Blizzard game, but sort of serving as proof of the company's slow demise - at least in some regards.
I... Well, had a troubling history in other forums, years ago, and given you, from admin, ban offenders and stuff, I always try to tread lightly, like in a minefield. Previous experience, from previous suspensions and then later realizing how much of a 'Triple A' I was.
But, on Blizzard's demise, it's just the opening mission, so we're still to see how much is there. And there have been worse downfalls, I mentioned them in the preview article, but 'better to die a hero than live to see yourself become the villain'. I agree a bit when the guy said that it might end like WC3, though if they re-enact SC1's last 'Toss mission, I won't be surprised.
BTW, I think we'll have datamining threads on TeamLiquid soon. Check the image.
Unlikely to have data mining done. This is on the one place where DRM works. They've encrypted the campaign files, and will decrypt them on launch day.
Zeratul really did many things to earn the untrust of Protoss.
He leaked the position of aiur, hates from Aiur Protoss.
He killed Raszagal, hates from Dark Templar. (And there are not so many people who is the witness of this moment, Atanis wasn't there, so he can't speak in defense of Zeratul )
He even ignored Raszagal's dieing words, by abandon the leadership responsibility of the Dark Templar, and hide into the universe to find his redemption.
He even helped Kerrigan to regain her power, while Kerrigan is still killing Protoss colonists.
Everytime he shows up, he only say things about the 'Prophesy', the 'Saviour', the 'Tiding of Doom', and then disapear.
Evetytime Artanis send people to find Zeratul, they all get killed, and Zeratul still refuse to return.
Even Artanis is still believing him, these believing can also be fading. Artanis need ally to help him insure the future of the people, while Zeratul refuse to do it and act like a huckster
To the eyes of more serious people, he may be too superstitious, which would earn hate from the people that think they are doing the solid works.
Even in this circumstances, Artanis was still willing to believe him, it's already genius.
And there people like Talis.
While Selendis is a more typical Protoss, it's reasonable that she would hate Zeratul. And that doesn't stand for Artanis' view for Zeratul.
Unlikely to have data mining done. This is on the one place where DRM works. They've encrypted the campaign files, and will decrypt them on launch day.
That would be great, since there are too many times that MMO-Champion leak story things. Hope these tech could give them some pause.
It's a common misconception that, if you have invested a lot of resources into something, you should just go ahead and continue doing that something. However, because the resources you have invested are irreversible (so-called "sunk costs"), they should not be taken into account in future decisions.
And yet a lot of people (yes, in real life as well as in StarCraft), fall for this fallacy anyway. In Artanis' example, he thinks that, because he spent a lot of time and resources preparing for the invasion of Aiur, he should just go ahead with it even in the event of new information. But then Zeratul comes with his talk about Amon and the true battle. What does Artanis do? He decides to ignore it. He has fallen for the sunk cost fallacy.
If Artanis was economically logical, he should only have cared about what Zeratul has to say, and not about the resources he has already spent, and therefore stopped the invasion.
It's quite an interesting subject. I couldn't wrap my head around it first, and I've fallen for it myself too, but I've now realised it makes sense. Read more about it here.
On another subject: Am I the only one who thinks Blizzard cinematics have a tendency to be really short? I know this is probably a necessity considering how long it takes to create those fantastic-looking pre-rendered cutscenes, but they've really made a niche of these 2-4-minute scenes where the characters barely get a word in.
Artanis and Zeratul's convo is the most extreme example of this. It's just so incredibly short, with Zera barely getting a word in before the frickin' invasion starts. Surely Artanis could have spared a few more minutes to listen to his old friend? If not, then the Protoss are not as prepared as they think they are.
But maybe I've just played far too much MGS. For the record: I'm not recommending 70-minute cutscenes neither, but a little more room for the characters to breathe would have been preferable.
I googled it, pretty much like Renée said and is much about that. As well as DC trying to follow ahead with BvS and MCU also moving up with their 'Phases' despite some tripping over.
Though a bit of credit should be given to Artanis, just backing away when the WHOLE army is right at Aiur's door would only get a 'WTF' reaction out of the Protoss. It wouldn't be just an eco waste, but credibility and stuff too. No matter how much reasonable or prudent you are, even the most humble nations need ego-stroking grand gestures to survive, because how much you 'appear to be' is more important than how you really are. It's all about appearances in the end, and Artanis wouldn't want to look like weak, or a coward or anything else. But unfortunately, in the end, this makes him no better than Aldaris or the Judicator he was forced to fight to aid Tassadar in the past.
Blizzard cinematics are short strictly because they don't want to drag too much into story - It's something I painfully learned as I re-read time and again through my fan-fiction, is that no matter how riveting it is, it'll get tiresome after a while if you don't move along to another scenario. In the end, Blizzard always had this struggle between Speed X Accessibility.
While Zeratul could've said a bit more, it'd also not be like it'd do anything. As Renée pointed, Zeratul didn't act like a samaritan, either, and though I wanted to defend him a bit, I forced myself to look from the other people's perspective and what matters the most, so much in real life as in StarCraft, is face value rather than looking deep into detail. Could Zeratul have said more and Artanis listened more? Definitely, but it'd most be filler, Selendis would no doubt say a few douche comebacks I'm a bit glad we didn't get to and Artanis still needed to go on because of, as I said, grand gesture. Characters should say more, but as Ocean's Eleven taught me, 'Don't use seven words if three's enough.'
Well, obvious, I'm being a little more lenient, compared to the outburst yesterday, but I lost it with the Mothership 'Pearl Harbor' stunt, so apologies for that. Also, as I said, it's just the first mission and it's that I want to like LotV, I do want to give a chance to it, hence why that criticism was one more of passion than actual logic. I grew up with the very first StarCraft, and to see it begin in such a cliche'd way it was, with Zeratul showing up there instead of maybe the middle and such... I just couldn't bear it.
Well, I'm gonna watch it too, and talk about it, but here it is, from Eurogamer.
THE QUEEN!!!! I CANNOT BELIVE!!!! THE QUEEN!!!! I hoped to see her portrait, will be very usefull for the remake
SPOILERS AHEAD - Make sure you've seen the video before reading through.
Okay, I've finally seen through it, now I'm ready to comment, and expect some negative backlash into this, I'm even sure I'll get a warning PM or get downright suspended for at least attempting to control my web mouth. Maybe I'm just judging by the cover. Maybe I'm bitching on a single mission when there's about 20/30 more to go. But, story wise, the first impression was literally 'Pixels' - Yes, your expectation was kind of low, but you'd never expect it'd reach an uncaringly low.
Because I honestly wished I could say a few positive things, other than the terrain, which was great. Thanks to the commentor I couldn't hear most of the mission's dialogue. Nostalgic returns like the Queen are nice, but since the model was on since HotS, I only ask: Why now it was introduced as a unit and not on the previous campaign, where even the Defiler, though untextured, was present, as were the Devourer and Guardian as well?
BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT 'PEARL HARBOR' MOTHERSHIP STUNT!? There are some action stuff which you can accept, like fighters flying around, chasing Mutalisks, but this was stepping over the line! I can't believe that the people that brought us a riveting short story and a short video relating to Artanis' doubts were the same that brought that literal BULLSHIT just to grab attention! There's action, and then there's Michael Bay action, and that was so brain-damaging that I'm wordless. Why a ship would make a curve like that, like a starfighter? Why not just it falling, a little cutscene showing it crashed, and then the warriors asking for help? Sorry, this was over the line, this time!
And, since I mentioned the short story and short video, I fear I've been fooled, somewhat. Because what I said a bit on the preview article, on that the characters would be stereotypical and such virtually came true on the introduction cinematic - Artanis is a narrow minded whom doesn't even listen to Zeratul, despite them having fought together God knows how many times, and Zeratul is literally branded as a traitor, completely IGNORING that what happened in Brood War was all Kerrigan fault and the Protoss with Artanis, which wasn't on Char, by the way, acknowledged, back then that Zeratul wasn't a deliberate murderer! And if this was enough to completely slap me in the face, about my hopes and such, then I'm honestly afraid for the rest of the campaign to come. And then the fact that Artanis wishes to investigate about it in the end, when it happened literally on his face... :(
On the mission itself, the gameplay, I don't have much to talk about. I know the tutorial may be as a precaution or done because LotV is a standalone, while HotS required WoL, I know this is the first mission and that you shouldn't throw much difficulty just right off the bat. But... Why not make this an option, instead? Literally, after the cutscene, all it'd take is a simple question of 'Activate Tutorial Mode' and yes or no, and then it spawns the literal deathball I've seen on the video, as well as remove defenses. Other stuff could be included, too, like Banelings and Sentries, I saw literally perfect situations to teach Force Fields and such. Other than that, it's normal as usual, just a-moving and grinding pretty much like it is on most first missions...
Well, that's it. I've said what I could, that the assets were nice, the tutorial could've been optional as well as Sentries should've been included, I didn't like the way the story started because of stereotypes and that Mothership stunt... That's pretty much it. Send in the flak.
@DeltaCadimus: Go
I kinda skimmed your posts but...
Apparently Blizzard told them they had to commentate over the mission dialog n stuff. Lame, but there wasn't anything Eurogamer could do.
Queen was neat, terrain was cool.
Dude, chill. XD
@EivindL: Go
I'm sorry, but, I was just speaking on the common sense of physics and stuff, y'know... That the mothership should just fall like... Every other stuff should, particularly when it can't clearly fly like a plane...
@DeltaCadimus: Go
I lold at "For Aiur" huzzah. Then I was confused, what did Zeratul do to be branded as traitor? First Zeratul himself in prologue said that he'll be treated as traitor and after that we see Selendis is so in his face about it. Did I miss something? I just don't understand what's going on anymore..
As for intro, I personally hate this new old-guy-talking-in-funny-words Medivh Zeratul, so in Artanis's place I'd probably also be like "you come to me now? Right after my invasion speech, right in front of our force, talking about obscure end-of-the world things, after all the sacrafices we had to go through to get here (most likely many tensions, politics, resources. Turn back now without even trying and whatever inner issues toss had will probably escalate even more). No Zeratul, bugger off."
And when Selendis makes that remark about interference and Aiur? My god, I swear I've seen this Prophet-King introduction before, only last time the King was surrounded by advisors and nobles, but I suppose the storyline wouldn't hold then would it?
Phoenixes chasing mutalisks felt forced. Mothership doing whatever it was doing was an utter wtf moment - "oh it crashing, why, we're doing so well here" "oh it just did what? WTF, since when is mothership a space fighter jet?"
And then there were those hybrid reavers - so sick of same two hybrid models for 5 years straight. But I can live with that, just a minor annoyance.
All in all, that Eurogamer guy sounded sincere when he said that he expected/wanted war3 rehash of all races defeating big bad evil with power of friendship and jolly cooperation. I mean there is no reason to believe a journalist doing a promotion wouldn't be sincere about his expectations. So I suppose Blizz does know best what people want. So I'll just trust that whatever comes is what people want.
Man I wish I could make an echo chambers for myself too, would be so fancy~
To be fair Zeratul does and always has sounded like a crazy old man in SC2. I can clearly see why all the top world leaders are always ignoring him. Heck he probably went to mengsk before the end of WoL and asked him for help too, lol. I wonder what that convo would have been like...
@MaskedImposter: Go
Well, I can't wonder, because the first thing Mengsk'd do is have everyone shoot that Protoss invader. That's literally the only scenario I can conceive.
Watching the intro cutscene gives me chills... this campaign is going to be more than awesome!!!!
Working on projects:
If you really think you'd get suspended for that I worry about your view on the forum we run...
I skimmed the video - don't want any details, but wanted a bit of a look. Looks like they didn't do the story right at all then, again. Shame. It's gonna be a play and forget. Still worth it cause it's a Blizzard game, but sort of serving as proof of the company's slow demise - at least in some regards.
@Mozared: Go
I... Well, had a troubling history in other forums, years ago, and given you, from admin, ban offenders and stuff, I always try to tread lightly, like in a minefield. Previous experience, from previous suspensions and then later realizing how much of a 'Triple A' I was.
But, on Blizzard's demise, it's just the opening mission, so we're still to see how much is there. And there have been worse downfalls, I mentioned them in the preview article, but 'better to die a hero than live to see yourself become the villain'. I agree a bit when the guy said that it might end like WC3, though if they re-enact SC1's last 'Toss mission, I won't be surprised.
BTW, I think we'll have datamining threads on TeamLiquid soon. Check the image.
Unlikely to have data mining done. This is on the one place where DRM works. They've encrypted the campaign files, and will decrypt them on launch day.
Zeratul really did many things to earn the untrust of Protoss.
To the eyes of more serious people, he may be too superstitious, which would earn hate from the people that think they are doing the solid works.
Even in this circumstances, Artanis was still willing to believe him, it's already genius.
And there people like Talis.
While Selendis is a more typical Protoss, it's reasonable that she would hate Zeratul. And that doesn't stand for Artanis' view for Zeratul.
That would be great, since there are too many times that MMO-Champion leak story things. Hope these tech could give them some pause.
Actually, Artanis goes ahead with the invasion because he's fallen for the sunk cost fallacy.
@EivindL: Go
Never heard of it. Can you please explain it?
google: sunk cost fallacy
It's a common misconception that, if you have invested a lot of resources into something, you should just go ahead and continue doing that something. However, because the resources you have invested are irreversible (so-called "sunk costs"), they should not be taken into account in future decisions.
And yet a lot of people (yes, in real life as well as in StarCraft), fall for this fallacy anyway. In Artanis' example, he thinks that, because he spent a lot of time and resources preparing for the invasion of Aiur, he should just go ahead with it even in the event of new information. But then Zeratul comes with his talk about Amon and the true battle. What does Artanis do? He decides to ignore it. He has fallen for the sunk cost fallacy.
If Artanis was economically logical, he should only have cared about what Zeratul has to say, and not about the resources he has already spent, and therefore stopped the invasion.
It's quite an interesting subject. I couldn't wrap my head around it first, and I've fallen for it myself too, but I've now realised it makes sense. Read more about it here.
On another subject: Am I the only one who thinks Blizzard cinematics have a tendency to be really short? I know this is probably a necessity considering how long it takes to create those fantastic-looking pre-rendered cutscenes, but they've really made a niche of these 2-4-minute scenes where the characters barely get a word in.
Artanis and Zeratul's convo is the most extreme example of this. It's just so incredibly short, with Zera barely getting a word in before the frickin' invasion starts. Surely Artanis could have spared a few more minutes to listen to his old friend? If not, then the Protoss are not as prepared as they think they are.
But maybe I've just played far too much MGS. For the record: I'm not recommending 70-minute cutscenes neither, but a little more room for the characters to breathe would have been preferable.
@EivindL: Go
I googled it, pretty much like Renée said and is much about that. As well as DC trying to follow ahead with BvS and MCU also moving up with their 'Phases' despite some tripping over.
Though a bit of credit should be given to Artanis, just backing away when the WHOLE army is right at Aiur's door would only get a 'WTF' reaction out of the Protoss. It wouldn't be just an eco waste, but credibility and stuff too. No matter how much reasonable or prudent you are, even the most humble nations need ego-stroking grand gestures to survive, because how much you 'appear to be' is more important than how you really are. It's all about appearances in the end, and Artanis wouldn't want to look like weak, or a coward or anything else. But unfortunately, in the end, this makes him no better than Aldaris or the Judicator he was forced to fight to aid Tassadar in the past.
Blizzard cinematics are short strictly because they don't want to drag too much into story - It's something I painfully learned as I re-read time and again through my fan-fiction, is that no matter how riveting it is, it'll get tiresome after a while if you don't move along to another scenario. In the end, Blizzard always had this struggle between Speed X Accessibility.
While Zeratul could've said a bit more, it'd also not be like it'd do anything. As Renée pointed, Zeratul didn't act like a samaritan, either, and though I wanted to defend him a bit, I forced myself to look from the other people's perspective and what matters the most, so much in real life as in StarCraft, is face value rather than looking deep into detail. Could Zeratul have said more and Artanis listened more? Definitely, but it'd most be filler, Selendis would no doubt say a few douche comebacks I'm a bit glad we didn't get to and Artanis still needed to go on because of, as I said, grand gesture. Characters should say more, but as Ocean's Eleven taught me, 'Don't use seven words if three's enough.'
Well, obvious, I'm being a little more lenient, compared to the outburst yesterday, but I lost it with the Mothership 'Pearl Harbor' stunt, so apologies for that. Also, as I said, it's just the first mission and it's that I want to like LotV, I do want to give a chance to it, hence why that criticism was one more of passion than actual logic. I grew up with the very first StarCraft, and to see it begin in such a cliche'd way it was, with Zeratul showing up there instead of maybe the middle and such... I just couldn't bear it.