There are no really formulars like how many or like this. But there's a standard for each base... you can see them if you run a blizzard melee map. Everything else is dependent on rest of the map like "how many paths", "how easy is this expansion to defend" or all questions like that stuff.
There is no "how", only "does it fit to the rest".
I guess you should set up a theme after you will work out your melee map und then can start a thread where to could ask for suggestions and possible improvements.
Pfff... there's a lot of variables. I haven't seen any mineral line vary from 8, and gold from 6, but I've seen gold lines without gas and mineral lines with just 1 gas.
There's the Map Analyzer to calculate distances and stuff, but yeah, it's a world on its own. No triggers and data, but a serious thinking on every single step.
Gold Bases have 6 rich mineral fields, and 2 rich geysers.
Normal Bases have 8 normal mineral fields, and 2 normal geysers.
As a general guideline to how many bases I make I usually have 4 bases per a player, unless you get a lot of players then you have to cut off at a certain point otherwise you have too many bases.
Terrain should be balanced for every player, to make interesting maps you should try using different types of symmetry (rotational etc). Most if not all of the GSL maps use rotational symmetry stemming from the central point.
Give your maps direction and focal points, and avoid things like Siege Tanks being able to shell away at your base from across a gap. Those are what piss people off.
Don't attempt to change up the terrain too much. It should be equal and a direct copy/paste of itself. Changing parts of it just throws things out of proportion and creates imbalances. This is one of the main issues people have with Blizzard's maps, there are too many imbalances due to terrain difference across their maps.
Having a mock-up map design prior to starting is much better than starting without one. Try not to go in blind, you get stuck on ideas.
Creative use of rocks and neutral/hostile units can add A LOT to your map, so keep them in mind when making designs for your map.
Good points, although are you sure gold bases have rich geysers? I opened up a few melees to check and they don't seem to go with that, i.e. they use normal geysers too.
Good points, although are you sure gold bases have rich geysers? I opened up a few melees to check and they don't seem to go with that, i.e. they use normal geysers too.
Really it depends. You don't have to use rich geysers, but as a general guideline there are 2 rich geysers at gold expo's. This doesn't mean people wont deviate from that rule. Especially when they're trying to be creative. Some of the GSL maps do this, where they give your natural expansion(for example) a rich geyser but few mineral fields, etc.
You can play with this all you want, just make sure it is mirrored & balanced for every player.
Good points, although are you sure gold bases have rich geysers? I opened up a few melees to check and they don't seem to go with that, i.e. they use normal geysers too.
Those rules are not set in stone. I don't have much experience with melee maps, but some maps have rich geysers at gold expansions, others don't; some have rich geysers at regular expansions; some have 1 geyser expansions or only mineral/ only gas expansions (very rarely nowadays, though - in SC1 those were quite common). The amount of mineral patches can vary as well, 8, 7 or 6 for regular expansions as well as gold expansions (however, more than 6 for gold is very uncommon and usually involves a very hard to defend location or whatever).
Just use your imagination; also there is nothing wrong with experimenting. Someone started those things like lowered supply depots at ramps or inbase expansions with 1 geyser and low mineral patch count; no reason there could not be some new and fun twists, as long as they are sane somehow.
For example a high yield main would probably be imbalanced, but whatever, you could try to use single high yield patches in regular expansions or whatever ;) . Maybe its just a stupid idea, maybe it works nicely. We will never know, until someone tries it out.
Something I think a lot of melee map makers fail to realize when they are making their maps is how the layout of the map effects each race. If you want to make a balanced map that everyone loves, you're going to have to know each race very well. A completely symetrical map may look balanced initially but after hundreds of games with different races, it could be very unbalanced for certain races.
If you map funnels to one opening, be it large or small, terran will have the upper hand in containing. Map is unbalanced if your not terran.
If your map has close bases, it favors zerg. Map is unbalanced if your not zerg.
If your map is very large between expansions, its unblanced if you play as terran.
Too many Xel'Naga watch towers and it's unbalanced if you decide to for go burrow, cloak or dts.
Too many clifs behind natural or main mineral lines, favored for terran.
Like Lanomi said, there's just too many variables. 5 minreal patches at one corners natural might be balanced if a terran is playing there, but horrible if its zerg. Can go on and on but ultimately, you cant theoretically completely balance a map until you can force certain races to start at specific places.
Make your map, take into consideration the advice you get, have fun doing it, play it with friends. Thats really the best you could hope for.
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I was working on a melee guide but lost interest very quickly due to my current custom map in development.
I have attached what I completed as well as two reference pictures.
If anyone wants to complete it, or if a group wants to add on bits to it over time, permission is granted. I just couldn't come to put these three items into the recycling bin :(
-Xeno
Edit: Left pictures. Will try and finish the text piece.
I was working on a melee guide but lost interest very quickly due to my current custom map in development.
I have attached what I completed as well as two reference pictures.
If anyone wants to complete it, or if a group wants to add on bits to it over time, permission is granted. I just couldn't come to put these three items into the recycling bin :(
-Xeno
This is good stuff. You shoudl go on with it. Please analyze a TPW map :)
Tehre is one error though, 1v1 arrengement 12 isnt viable. You cant spawn short close positions.
I thought there was something about close starting positions but wasn't quite sure; thanks for the update I appreciate it :)
I will update the pictures and try to finish it.
What are the guidelines someone should follow for melee maps? Such as
How many mineral patches in the main, natural and other expansions?
How big should the map be for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, FFA?
How do you know if you placed too many xel'naga towers or too little?
I thought there were more but I just woke up so I'm drawing a blank.
Do the opposite of whatever blizzard does and you should be fine :D
There are no really formulars like how many or like this. But there's a standard for each base... you can see them if you run a blizzard melee map. Everything else is dependent on rest of the map like "how many paths", "how easy is this expansion to defend" or all questions like that stuff.
There is no "how", only "does it fit to the rest".
I guess you should set up a theme after you will work out your melee map und then can start a thread where to could ask for suggestions and possible improvements.
Well, each base should have 2 geysers and 8 mineral patches. Also the Map Analyzer should help I think.
Pfff... there's a lot of variables. I haven't seen any mineral line vary from 8, and gold from 6, but I've seen gold lines without gas and mineral lines with just 1 gas.
There's the Map Analyzer to calculate distances and stuff, but yeah, it's a world on its own. No triggers and data, but a serious thinking on every single step.
Gold Bases have 6 rich mineral fields, and 2 rich geysers. Normal Bases have 8 normal mineral fields, and 2 normal geysers.
As a general guideline to how many bases I make I usually have 4 bases per a player, unless you get a lot of players then you have to cut off at a certain point otherwise you have too many bases.
Terrain should be balanced for every player, to make interesting maps you should try using different types of symmetry (rotational etc). Most if not all of the GSL maps use rotational symmetry stemming from the central point.
Give your maps direction and focal points, and avoid things like Siege Tanks being able to shell away at your base from across a gap. Those are what piss people off.
Don't attempt to change up the terrain too much. It should be equal and a direct copy/paste of itself. Changing parts of it just throws things out of proportion and creates imbalances. This is one of the main issues people have with Blizzard's maps, there are too many imbalances due to terrain difference across their maps.
Having a mock-up map design prior to starting is much better than starting without one. Try not to go in blind, you get stuck on ideas.
Creative use of rocks and neutral/hostile units can add A LOT to your map, so keep them in mind when making designs for your map.
@ST4RKiLL3R: Go
Good points, although are you sure gold bases have rich geysers? I opened up a few melees to check and they don't seem to go with that, i.e. they use normal geysers too.
Really it depends. You don't have to use rich geysers, but as a general guideline there are 2 rich geysers at gold expo's. This doesn't mean people wont deviate from that rule. Especially when they're trying to be creative. Some of the GSL maps do this, where they give your natural expansion(for example) a rich geyser but few mineral fields, etc.
You can play with this all you want, just make sure it is mirrored & balanced for every player.
Those rules are not set in stone. I don't have much experience with melee maps, but some maps have rich geysers at gold expansions, others don't; some have rich geysers at regular expansions; some have 1 geyser expansions or only mineral/ only gas expansions (very rarely nowadays, though - in SC1 those were quite common). The amount of mineral patches can vary as well, 8, 7 or 6 for regular expansions as well as gold expansions (however, more than 6 for gold is very uncommon and usually involves a very hard to defend location or whatever).
Just use your imagination; also there is nothing wrong with experimenting. Someone started those things like lowered supply depots at ramps or inbase expansions with 1 geyser and low mineral patch count; no reason there could not be some new and fun twists, as long as they are sane somehow.
For example a high yield main would probably be imbalanced, but whatever, you could try to use single high yield patches in regular expansions or whatever ;) . Maybe its just a stupid idea, maybe it works nicely. We will never know, until someone tries it out.
Something I think a lot of melee map makers fail to realize when they are making their maps is how the layout of the map effects each race. If you want to make a balanced map that everyone loves, you're going to have to know each race very well. A completely symetrical map may look balanced initially but after hundreds of games with different races, it could be very unbalanced for certain races.
If you map funnels to one opening, be it large or small, terran will have the upper hand in containing. Map is unbalanced if your not terran. If your map has close bases, it favors zerg. Map is unbalanced if your not zerg. If your map is very large between expansions, its unblanced if you play as terran. Too many Xel'Naga watch towers and it's unbalanced if you decide to for go burrow, cloak or dts. Too many clifs behind natural or main mineral lines, favored for terran.
Like Lanomi said, there's just too many variables. 5 minreal patches at one corners natural might be balanced if a terran is playing there, but horrible if its zerg. Can go on and on but ultimately, you cant theoretically completely balance a map until you can force certain races to start at specific places.
Make your map, take into consideration the advice you get, have fun doing it, play it with friends. Thats really the best you could hope for.
I was working on a melee guide but lost interest very quickly due to my current custom map in development.
I have attached what I completed as well as two reference pictures.
If anyone wants to complete it, or if a group wants to add on bits to it over time, permission is granted. I just couldn't come to put these three items into the recycling bin :(
-Xeno
Edit: Left pictures. Will try and finish the text piece.
This is good stuff. You shoudl go on with it. Please analyze a TPW map :) Tehre is one error though, 1v1 arrengement 12 isnt viable. You cant spawn short close positions.
I thought there was something about close starting positions but wasn't quite sure; thanks for the update I appreciate it :) I will update the pictures and try to finish it.