I have the feeling my 30-minute-notes arcade feedback from 1.5 years ago is finally becoming important after LotV release (link). For example, fan-made campaigns were pretty much non existent on their radar back then, same as making single player games brow-sable (the latter is confirmed in LotV due to ArcanePariah's data-mining, I believe).
To be honest, I hope they talk to a lot of mappers all over the world and maybe even bring the people, e.g. within US in to really discuss things like ratings (optional out, updates making old ratings less important, etc). I hope we will in theory be able to put campaigns online which can potentially match Blizz's quality (= connected maps, no lobby hosting hell), too.
In Heroes' strings, I saw already some improvements regarding team projects, e.g. they have clusters of authors which all might be able to update a map instead of having a single person only. So, I expect multi-person hosting to come to LotV.
So, something we can do while waiting is to come up with stuff we would like to see. How would the ideal bnet look like and which aspects can be realistically added. (E.g. auto-matchmaking would be something I don't expect them to ever implement for user-made arcade maps as the player base might be too small sometimes to create good matches. Even in Heroes, players complain about it all the time and that would just become worse with a smaller pool of players.)
Btw, I don't know how the dota2 arcade-like system works. Anyone got a link that documents all of its features? I currently do not have the means to just download dota2 and look at it myself. :D
nice list by the way, there something you need to add on that list.
Me and Bounty figure out a script to large failure when the trigger execution is to long (and its not about heavy triggers line code, its really the (execution)
to fix that, you have to put a wait trigger of 0.0 sec in the trigger code, and the engine reset the execution and continue running your trigger.
its kinda annoying cause you dont really know when the execution will fail cause it said nothing in the debug, just stop running.
You can pass questions to me, I'll be attending Blizzcon (finally....)
Well i only have one actuelly, for now, Q1:
When Bank-File Server side?
Last time we asked, they said: Yeah yeah we need to talk about why people need that?
We already discuted that in a thread and to conclude and summerize: More Security, ( No hacking ladderboard, no hack abuser in-game, better save in rpg map, no kind of duping items, etc etc )
it's about every 150 lines of execution per wait command I believe
Do action definitions bypass this? any/or map init triggers? I am positive that I have init trigger far longer than 150 lines; that have no problems. I also have some action definitions which far bypass this (with no issue). In a trigger though, that action definition is a single line. I would love more information if anyone has it. (Not to derail)
If I recall correctly, (there's a thread on this somewhere in sc2mapster, was a long while ago though), you can execute 256 lines of code per frame (including wait command), however some actions have multiple lines of code inside of them (such as action definitions), this is why I use 150 lines of actions as my benchmark for a 0.0 wait command (it also helps with framerate and processing in general), generally the delay between frames caused by a 0.0 wait command is unnoticeable and is helpful for player's computer's processors, but also generally you won't be running 150 actions at once (pretty much at start only).
I think both marketplace and server side bankfiles are a bit overrated.
A marketplace would not be able to pull in enough money to (US taxes, EU taxes, fees from blizzard side for curating/validating maps, transfer costs etc.)
Server side bankfiles would not make it less cheatable. It might make it harder, but not impossible. People still cheat on the official ladder.
Lets say the full battle.net experience contains a) Melee mod, b) Campaign mod, c) Melee maps, d) Campaign maps, e) arcade maps, f) ladder, g) coop missions, h) custom tournaments.
I think it would be good if there was sub-battle.nets where only some of these features were supported, with custom metrics/properties and UX. Blizzard would commit to supporting a couple of features in each sub-net and also provide a method to upload constrained content. Examples:
Custom campaign sub-net. Blizzard commits to providing campaign progress tracking (e.g. which maps have been played in this series). Players commit to providing campaign maps (at least two levels of certain quality).
WoL sub-net. Blizzard commits to keeping the first campaign playable as engine evolves. Players commit to playing and paying (paywall)
HotS sub-net. Blizzard commits to keeping the second campaign playable as engine evolves. Players commit to playing and paying (paywall).
LotV sub-net. Blizzard commits to keeping the third campaign playable as engine evolves. Players commit to playing and paying (paywall).
Starcraft coop missions. Blizzard commits to keeping a pool of heroes updated and some missions. Players commit to playing and to upload coop missions, but accept that the maps does not generate experience points. (paywall)
Starbow sub-net. Blizzard commits to providing custom tournaments (no ladder due to the risk of anemia). Users commit to playing, uploading melee maps and also maintaining the melee mod using a "mod-superuser".
Official season melee (competitive). Blizzard commits once per calendar year to maintain the core melee mod as well as a map pool. Also ladder tournaments, etc.
Warcraft themed coop campaign sub-net. Blizzard commits to providing Warcraft style content, heroes and selection of missions. Users commit to playing and uploading own missions (which would not generate experience points). (paywall)
Overwatch themed coop campaign sub-net. Blizzard commits to providing Warcraft style content, heroes and selection of missions. Users commit to playing and uploading own missions (which would not generate experience points). (paywall)
Arcade sub-net. Non themed classic arcade games. Blizzard commits to keeping track of high-score for each map. Users commit to playing and uploading maps, where each map/arcade game would have its own score.
Rock the cabinet sub-net. Blizzard commits to prize pool, theme, scoring. Users commit to playing the games and also to create maps.
TeamLiquid melee map sub-net. Blizzard commits to providing custom tournaments and core melee mod. Players commit to playing and to provide melee maps.
If a sub-net becomes too low in activity it should be possible to close down.
Each sub-net could have some custom UX to fit the content. E.g. an arcade would have emphasis on lists/leaderboards while custom campaign would have storyline, lore and the map-series.
The benefit, as I see it, is that it will be more clear what can be expected from any efforts. Overcommitment and fatigue makes humans bitter :)
Server side banks do stop people from just altering the stored data, which mapmakers use to store unlocks, progression and so forth. And many custom maps are difficult, even if you did have maphack (mine being one of them, maphack is almost entirely pointless).
As for the subnets. Maybe? Would seem to require a lot of work for not a whole lot of gain over the current setup.
I think you guys are misunderstanding what he means by "working with individuals". I don't think they intend to have anyone work directly with us on maps.
I have his email if you want me to ask him to maybe clarify on that.
I'm pretty sure by 'working with individuals' he means doing what they've already been doing. Which is giving maps and mappers with high-profile projects that they like exposure.
I still think a serverside map bank would be nice for storing public keys for players, while still retaining individual clientside bank files to store their data in.
Do action definitions bypass this? any/or map init triggers? I am positive that I have init trigger far longer than 150 lines; that have no problems.
If I took a random stab in the dark about how many lines of code my init script is for my current project I would say about 3,000 lines of code excecuted as a minimum without any wait(0) instructions. I don't know where you're getting your 150/256 lines of code only limit. Or do you mean that 256 is the limit before you start seeing too much lag if your trigger is running frequently?
Yup i was completely wrong, just searched up that thread, apparently it's a 2038 thread count limit. Apparently I remembered it as a 256 (238 is almost 256 and con) count limit, although if you run anywhere near that on a regular basis in your map, you'll lag your players to hell.
Yup i was completely wrong, just searched up that thread, apparently it's a 2038 thread count limit. Apparently I remembered it as a 256 (238 is almost 256 and con) count limit, although if you run anywhere near that on a regular basis in your map, you'll lag your players to hell.
You'll be happy to know, there is indications of adding campaign support in the latest Storm patch. Specifically a new Arcade category is being added for SP oriented content.
You'll be happy to know, there is indications of adding campaign support in the latest Storm patch. Specifically a new Arcade category is being added for SP oriented content.
<GameCategories><Usagevalue="Arcade"/><InfoId="18"Name="GameCategory/Single_Player/Name"Description="GameCategory/Single_Player/Desc"/><ModesId="1"Name="GameCategory/Single_Player_Custom/Name"Description="GameCategory/Single_Player_Custom/Desc"/></GameCategories>
And the strings in English are
GameCategory/Single_Player/Desc=Games designed specifically for one player.
GameCategory/Single_Player/Name=Single Player
GameCategory/Single_Player_Custom/Desc=All settings may be customized.
GameCategory/Single_Player_Custom/Name=Custom
No idea, but there is much shared between the two. They have started removing SC2 specific stuff from Storm and vice versa (strings and certain game specific features).
No idea, but there is much shared between the two. They have started removing SC2 specific stuff from Storm and vice versa (strings and certain game specific features).
i guess this will end like this:
They will bring heroes stuff into sc2 edtior and upgrade Bnet to 3.0 (next year)
If I recall correctly, (there's a thread on this somewhere in sc2mapster, was a long while ago though), you can execute 256 lines of code per frame (including wait command), however some actions have multiple lines of code inside of them (such as action definitions), this is why I use 150 lines of actions as my benchmark for a 0.0 wait command (it also helps with framerate and processing in general), generally the delay between frames caused by a 0.0 wait command is unnoticeable and is helpful for player's computer's processors, but also generally you won't be running 150 actions at once (pretty much at start only).
To bring this back up, I just ran into this problem for the first time ever. For me though, it happened at somewhere around line 340. Neat, here I was thinking I was immune. There must be something taken into account here other than line length; because this is not the only trigger I have with well over 256 lines; and they are all working.
nice list by the way, there something you need to add on that list.
Me and Bounty figure out a script to large failure when the trigger execution is to long (and its not about heavy triggers line code, its really the (execution)
to fix that, you have to put a wait trigger of 0.0 sec in the trigger code, and the engine reset the execution and continue running your trigger. its kinda annoying cause you dont really know when the execution will fail cause it said nothing in the debug, just stop running.
Egod
@egodbout: Go
it's about every 150 lines of execution per wait command I believe
Still alive and kicking, just busy.
My guide to the trigger editor (still a work in progress)
oh really? good
Well i only have one actuelly, for now, Q1:
When Bank-File Server side?
Last time we asked, they said: Yeah yeah we need to talk about why people need that? We already discuted that in a thread and to conclude and summerize: More Security, ( No hacking ladderboard, no hack abuser in-game, better save in rpg map, no kind of duping items, etc etc )
and if you guys didnt know, this is the website where all bank files are cracked/hacked! http://www.d3scene.com/forum/starcraft-2-custom-maps/
Do action definitions bypass this? any/or map init triggers? I am positive that I have init trigger far longer than 150 lines; that have no problems. I also have some action definitions which far bypass this (with no issue). In a trigger though, that action definition is a single line. I would love more information if anyone has it. (Not to derail)
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418
@GlornII: Go
If I recall correctly, (there's a thread on this somewhere in sc2mapster, was a long while ago though), you can execute 256 lines of code per frame (including wait command), however some actions have multiple lines of code inside of them (such as action definitions), this is why I use 150 lines of actions as my benchmark for a 0.0 wait command (it also helps with framerate and processing in general), generally the delay between frames caused by a 0.0 wait command is unnoticeable and is helpful for player's computer's processors, but also generally you won't be running 150 actions at once (pretty much at start only).
Still alive and kicking, just busy.
My guide to the trigger editor (still a work in progress)
I think both marketplace and server side bankfiles are a bit overrated.
Lets say the full battle.net experience contains a) Melee mod, b) Campaign mod, c) Melee maps, d) Campaign maps, e) arcade maps, f) ladder, g) coop missions, h) custom tournaments.
I think it would be good if there was sub-battle.nets where only some of these features were supported, with custom metrics/properties and UX. Blizzard would commit to supporting a couple of features in each sub-net and also provide a method to upload constrained content. Examples:
If a sub-net becomes too low in activity it should be possible to close down. Each sub-net could have some custom UX to fit the content. E.g. an arcade would have emphasis on lists/leaderboards while custom campaign would have storyline, lore and the map-series.
The benefit, as I see it, is that it will be more clear what can be expected from any efforts. Overcommitment and fatigue makes humans bitter :)
@Monkalizer: Go
Server side banks do stop people from just altering the stored data, which mapmakers use to store unlocks, progression and so forth. And many custom maps are difficult, even if you did have maphack (mine being one of them, maphack is almost entirely pointless).
As for the subnets. Maybe? Would seem to require a lot of work for not a whole lot of gain over the current setup.
I'm pretty sure by 'working with individuals' he means doing what they've already been doing. Which is giving maps and mappers with high-profile projects that they like exposure.
I still think a serverside map bank would be nice for storing public keys for players, while still retaining individual clientside bank files to store their data in.
Still alive and kicking, just busy.
My guide to the trigger editor (still a work in progress)
They're dead to me until custom campaigns aren't such a hacky shitshow to get up and running.
If I took a random stab in the dark about how many lines of code my init script is for my current project I would say about 3,000 lines of code excecuted as a minimum without any wait(0) instructions. I don't know where you're getting your 150/256 lines of code only limit. Or do you mean that 256 is the limit before you start seeing too much lag if your trigger is running frequently?
@finiteturtles: Go
Yup i was completely wrong, just searched up that thread, apparently it's a 2038 thread count limit. Apparently I remembered it as a 256 (238 is almost 256 and con) count limit, although if you run anywhere near that on a regular basis in your map, you'll lag your players to hell.
Still alive and kicking, just busy.
My guide to the trigger editor (still a work in progress)
it lag, well, on battle.net mostly
@LucidIguana: Go
You'll be happy to know, there is indications of adding campaign support in the latest Storm patch. Specifically a new Arcade category is being added for SP oriented content.
And the strings in English are
Arcade in Heroes of the storm?
No idea, but there is much shared between the two. They have started removing SC2 specific stuff from Storm and vice versa (strings and certain game specific features).
i guess this will end like this:
They will bring heroes stuff into sc2 edtior and upgrade Bnet to 3.0 (next year)
more like 0.3
To bring this back up, I just ran into this problem for the first time ever. For me though, it happened at somewhere around line 340. Neat, here I was thinking I was immune. There must be something taken into account here other than line length; because this is not the only trigger I have with well over 256 lines; and they are all working.
Skype: [email protected] Current Project: Custom Hero Arena! US: battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/263274 EU: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/186418