I see this to be a rather complicated matter, please bear with me if this is tl;dr
Names will not be mentioned to conceal the identity of the parties involved.
Namely, person (A) and person (B), and me.
Long story short, (A) accused me of being irresponsible/having lousy EQ. To a certain extent, I was rather offended by his condescending tone.
The setting of the problem takes place across several scenarios:
(B), a few other people and I, originally planned to meet up to get our hiking gear.
However, 3 days before departing for the hike, (B) advises me to go ahead and get the gear first.
Most of the shops that sell gear are quite a distance from my residence, thus I turn to (A) for help.
(A) tells me off for being irresponsible, stating that I should have just gone and got the gear myself, rather than wait for others.
We arrive at the entrance of the nature reserve park. It was quite chilly, so I went to get my sweater from the van.
In my absence, everyone bought their hiking sticks from a shop at the entrance. NO ONE informed me that I was supposed to buy the sticks there.
In fact, I took notice myself when we arrived at our lodging, that everyone had already gotten their hiking sticks.
Thinking they might have helped me get one, I took hold of one of the sticks, but was told everyone only bought one for themselves.
So I enquired where the hiking sticks were from, only to be disappointed when I was told it was at the entrance of the park.
(A) tells me off once again for being irresponsible, insisting I should know that I need a hiking stick and should have bought it myself.
I generally don't like to argue, so I just thought to myself "Fuck it.", I'll just buy it at the entrance of the trail tomorrow.
Extra info: Hiking sticks at the entrance were out of stock, So I climbed up the whole fucking mountain without one and didn't make a single complaint about not having one.
On the plane back home, I move over to the window seat with no intent on stealing it as it wasn't mine, It was (A)'s.
(A) comes along, so I ask if it's cool if I take the window seat, (A) jokingly says sure, if I pay him a premium.
Next thing I know, mid flight, (A) starts making a big deal out of the issue, accusing me of having intent to take his seat, and that
he would have let me take it if I had asked before moving over to the seat.
He backs this up by accusing me of having intent to take one of the hiking sticks that weren't mine earlier (since I took hold of one), saying that I "failed the test" and embarrassed myself in-front of everyone else.
This is followed up and ended with: "You need to be more responsible, and that I shouldn't take advantage of people's services."
However, (A) will not tell me exactly where I took advantage of people's services and ask me to think myself, insisting that he will not tell me where I supposedly took advantage.From my point of view, as far as I'm fucking concerned, I had no intention of taking advantage of anyone. Thus it baffles me when (A) says "Go figure it out yourself". I can only guess but never know exactly what the fuck (A) was referring to.
If I were to take a shot I would say it was because I asked (A) for a favour in helping me get my gear, and (A) felt taken advantage of.
What I'd like to hear, is an unbiased opinion from a third person's point of view:
Sounds more like you have a shitty group of friends. Who using a hiking stick?
People that hike?
Anyways we're all bias because you are bias towards yourself (no matter how hard you try), and your the only person we can hear from. Based on what you said
Friends could have bought you a stick, but it's possible they would forget. I'd say the same thing as you if it were me though.
Airline Seat thing. If he didn't make a big deal, he should not have freaked later. But you also should have (probably) gotten into your seat when he showed up.
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I'm open to hear more... The dilemma I'm facing right now is as to whether or not I'm in the wrong and should take future preventive action.
If one person disagree's with me, it could just be them. But if a few people from different backgrounds disagree, then it's most likely me, and I should do something to rectify the problem. I strongly believe in this.. which is the reason why I'd like to hear about this from the point of view of 3rd parties.
At this point, my personal feelings are that (A) is practically making a big deal out of several trivial issues.
I'm not so much annoyed by the fact that no one helped me buy a stick, but rather the fact that no one informed me that I should be getting one at the particular location, then indirectly told that it was my fault for not getting one.
I could play the blame game, scold F words and all, but I chose to keep my cool and let it slide, deciding to just buy one at the next opportunity. Thus, I hardly think the discrimination was justified. To be frank though, I was very close to just telling (A) to F-off.
By the sounds of it, (A) is being unreasonable or at least not seeing the whole perspective. You never specifically mentioned if he was a friend of yours or if he was just some random like a friend of a friend you didn't know.
If he is a friend of yours, have you noticed that behaviour from him very often, both towards you specifically and everyone in general? I wonder if he is like that to everyone or maybe he is intentionally blowing things you are/ aren't doing out of proportion because he doesn't like you for whatever reason.
The first reaction seems unnecessary and over the top, especially if you were prepared to get them yourself but was just looking to see if there was a better alternative.
Regarding the hiking sticks, I probably would have explained the situation, then insulted him for behaving like a jerk for making accusations regarding his uninformed judgements. However, that does not mean it is the right way of handing it either.
Regarding the airline thing, I agree with zeldarules28. It also sounds like he is someone who likes to kick up a fuss and/ or has no manners. All it takes is a simple: "I would like to sit in my seat again if you don't mind."
Also, if I was there I would have bought you a hiking stick :)
IMO i think you should not go hiking with the same group again, find different people who have a less "aggrivated" attitude towards everything, when all they could of said was "oh you could of gotten a hiking stick at the entrance, sorry for not telling you" and "Im sorry, but can you move out of my seat?" simple as that. Don't deal with all the jerks in the world, let them have their way and be done with it.
You were not being irresponsible by asking a friend to do so. Does everyone in the world not ask someone to do something as a favor or so on and so forth? i would tell person (A) up that he crossed the line and he aint getting respect for anything.
You're being too straight forward. Someone acts like that when they don't like you. It's a lack of patience for you. The root of this story probably started weeks if not months ago.
Known (A) for more than 5 years. From my observation, (A) is like that to everyone. He's personally told me before that he has no qualms with reprimanding someone if he (strongly) disagree's with something they've done, doesn't matter friend of foe. I sort of sense that he pissed off (B) as well during the vacation judging by some rather harsh exchange of their words.
Also, if I was there I would have bought you a hiking stick Thanks. I appreciate the thought :)
In a nutshell, I would describe it as a scale of how empathetic a person is.
As for me being overly passive, would you care to elaborate? No hostile intentions here, I'd just like to know.
To my understanding, a person who is overly passive is one who usually yields in the argument. What I usually do is think to myself "whatever makes you happy" and let it slide without being too judgemental. Giving the benefit of the doubt if I may say, but keeping in mind to do whatever I can to prevent any future conflict with the involved parties. Does this make me overly passive?
You're being too straight forward. Someone acts like that when they don't like you. It's a lack of patience for you. The root of this story probably started weeks if not months ago. Or maybe years, I don't know. Once again if I may ask, care to elaborate on how I'm being too straightforward or lacking of patience? I honestly can't connect the dots there.
Sad to say, I do think (A)'s lost some of my respect for the chain of uncalled-for actions. At least, I'll know to be careful when asking (A) for help in future. Though irrelevant.. I shall point out that in life connections form, weaken or break. This is just one of the cases. I've been through a lot of shit.. So I feel pretty numb to the loss of connections these days.
PS: I like having philosophical discussions, it helps me understand people better.
I can't elaborate. Nobody could who doesn't know the situation first-hand.
The only thing anyone can glean from that is that this person doesn't respect you. As to why that is, only someone who was there can answer.
You've obviously thought about this a lot, so it clearly hit a nerve. The pessimistic side of me is saying that you secretly know why he doesn't like you and that you're looking for support elsewhere, which is a very normal thing to do.
Social conduct is tricky as hell but it s just a question of personnal choice
if someone took you somewhere and that someone knows everything about the place (hiking sticks etc).. then expects you to be "on your best behavior" (following lapdog style, doing everything he does etc) then that someone is a poor "leader" .. but a leader none the less (probably why you liked him or followed him in the first place)
however confronting such leaders (which are somewhat somehow needed) gives a dubious outcome at best.. you stand out when doing so (which is not your objective, you just want to be respected not tagged)
most "leaders" need someone to repeatedly bash on .. and ridicule .. and demean.. it sort of gets them in a "good vibe" to feel "strong and confident.. and make a "better" journey for "everyone"
usually the target is someone who doesn't want to stand out, just be apart of a group (and that's never hard to come by)
so what you have to ask yourself is "what matters to you"..?
Being a punching bag is something specific.. it will give you stuff .. it will take stuff from you ...
being the one that talked back and ruined the "trip" is another specific.. it will give you stuff .. take stuff from you ..but you will no longer be someone in the crowd.. you will be "known" for it
so, (i think) most importantly then is to realize that
both ways will be regarded by OTHER PEOPLE in many different ways, and you might be made to suffer from this much more than you would think at first .. and that's what i'd advise watching out for or settling what you want for yourself...
So, usually i advise people with your type of question to become sneaky... ;)
Don't fret the public displays of nincompoops who need those to feel "good" ... but do straighten them out in smaller committees.. alone or with a reliable witness..
"plane seat" example : i agree with Voidpotato : just say a simple: "I would like to sit in my seat again if you don't mind would have instantly gotten you your seat back.. you passive aggressive little girl :) " (maybe drop the girl bit)
the stick example: sorry i don't use any .. and if i want one, i break an already dead tree branch for mine (i would never buy one ;) )..
if you are being shepherded on a hike ..don't play the part that "leader's" will assign to you.. you did what you should have.. there wasn't any more, bouhou (that's no one's fault but be happy = you saved money :) ) .. you got your sweater (much more useful/vital) and i hope you got your kicks out of the hike (don't let petty stuff/people spoil your fun).
the irresponsible bid: lolololol ..just know that few people are altruistic by nature (and will help you just "like that").. people usually are there for number 1 (Obatztrara reference "im looking out for number one = me".. lolololol .. some people are like that .. maybe most.. certainly not all)
being responsible is subjective.. being nice is not..!
so basicaly, i agree with E, don't let people (close or random) get you riled up (even internally) .. life is soooo f ck n short .. and so filled with opportunities
Decide to like A for what he is, dislike (or tell him off) him for what he is = and decide the stance you want to have with / around him (or decide to not stand for it or even to not have to make that choice :) )
in any case BE HAPPY.. you only got one life, don't spend it wallowing on stuff
same with every thing .. just be clear about what you are in for
Eiviyn ps: love Caravagio, don't fink the term n applies here.. you mean fuzzy mapmaker you ;)
It sounds like they were having a bad day even before you went and screwed it up from their perspective. Whoever these people are need to learn tho shove it and calm the hell down. So you forgot to buy a pole for your trip and they didn't bother to ask you if you wanted one. Big stinkin' deal. Why do they complain about every stupid thing. What did you do to make them think you took their seat anyway?!? As long as everyone has a place to plant their ass, it doesn't matter!! Just forget about it and make a map or something. If they ask you out again then say you can't go if you think this bull will happen again or ask if they will treat you appropriately this time even before you put down the phone.
I see this to be a rather complicated matter, please bear with me if this is tl;dr Names will not be mentioned to conceal the identity of the parties involved.
Namely, person (A) and person (B), and me.
Long story short, (A) accused me of being irresponsible/having lousy EQ. To a certain extent, I was rather offended by his condescending tone.
The setting of the problem takes place across several scenarios:
However, 3 days before departing for the hike, (B) advises me to go ahead and get the gear first.
Most of the shops that sell gear are quite a distance from my residence, thus I turn to (A) for help.
(A) tells me off for being irresponsible, stating that I should have just gone and got the gear myself, rather than wait for others.
In my absence, everyone bought their hiking sticks from a shop at the entrance. NO ONE informed me that I was supposed to buy the sticks there.
In fact, I took notice myself when we arrived at our lodging, that everyone had already gotten their hiking sticks.
Thinking they might have helped me get one, I took hold of one of the sticks, but was told everyone only bought one for themselves.
So I enquired where the hiking sticks were from, only to be disappointed when I was told it was at the entrance of the park.
(A) tells me off once again for being irresponsible, insisting I should know that I need a hiking stick and should have bought it myself.
I generally don't like to argue, so I just thought to myself "Fuck it.", I'll just buy it at the entrance of the trail tomorrow.
Extra info: Hiking sticks at the entrance were out of stock, So I climbed up the whole fucking mountain without one and didn't make a single complaint about not having one.
(A) comes along, so I ask if it's cool if I take the window seat, (A) jokingly says sure, if I pay him a premium.
Next thing I know, mid flight, (A) starts making a big deal out of the issue, accusing me of having intent to take his seat, and that he would have let me take it if I had asked before moving over to the seat.
He backs this up by accusing me of having intent to take one of the hiking sticks that weren't mine earlier (since I took hold of one), saying that I "failed the test" and embarrassed myself in-front of everyone else.
This is followed up and ended with: "You need to be more responsible, and that I shouldn't take advantage of people's services."
However, (A) will not tell me exactly where I took advantage of people's services and ask me to think myself, insisting that he will not tell me where I supposedly took advantage.From my point of view, as far as I'm fucking concerned, I had no intention of taking advantage of anyone. Thus it baffles me when (A) says "Go figure it out yourself". I can only guess but never know exactly what the fuck (A) was referring to.
If I were to take a shot I would say it was because I asked (A) for a favour in helping me get my gear, and (A) felt taken advantage of.
What I'd like to hear, is an unbiased opinion from a third person's point of view:
@FuzzYD: Go
Okay. I have deemed my only source biased and therefore cannot make a verdict.
Based off the story, "irresponsible" is an interesting word to be used, when I see nothing of the sort.
Sounds more like you have a shitty group of friends. Who using a hiking stick?
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Curse PremiumPeople that hike?
Anyways we're all bias because you are bias towards yourself (no matter how hard you try), and your the only person we can hear from. Based on what you said
@zeldarules28: Go
Thanks for the feedback zeldarules.
I'm open to hear more... The dilemma I'm facing right now is as to whether or not I'm in the wrong and should take future preventive action.
If one person disagree's with me, it could just be them. But if a few people from different backgrounds disagree, then it's most likely me, and I should do something to rectify the problem. I strongly believe in this.. which is the reason why I'd like to hear about this from the point of view of 3rd parties.
At this point, my personal feelings are that (A) is practically making a big deal out of several trivial issues.
I'm not so much annoyed by the fact that no one helped me buy a stick, but rather the fact that no one informed me that I should be getting one at the particular location, then indirectly told that it was my fault for not getting one.
I could play the blame game, scold F words and all, but I chose to keep my cool and let it slide, deciding to just buy one at the next opportunity. Thus, I hardly think the discrimination was justified. To be frank though, I was very close to just telling (A) to F-off.
@FuzzYD: Go
By the sounds of it, (A) is being unreasonable or at least not seeing the whole perspective. You never specifically mentioned if he was a friend of yours or if he was just some random like a friend of a friend you didn't know.
If he is a friend of yours, have you noticed that behaviour from him very often, both towards you specifically and everyone in general? I wonder if he is like that to everyone or maybe he is intentionally blowing things you are/ aren't doing out of proportion because he doesn't like you for whatever reason.
The first reaction seems unnecessary and over the top, especially if you were prepared to get them yourself but was just looking to see if there was a better alternative.
Regarding the hiking sticks, I probably would have explained the situation, then insulted him for behaving like a jerk for making accusations regarding his uninformed judgements. However, that does not mean it is the right way of handing it either.
Regarding the airline thing, I agree with zeldarules28. It also sounds like he is someone who likes to kick up a fuss and/ or has no manners. All it takes is a simple: "I would like to sit in my seat again if you don't mind."
Also, if I was there I would have bought you a hiking stick :)
What the hell is EQ
Just sounds like you're overly passive.
IMO i think you should not go hiking with the same group again, find different people who have a less "aggrivated" attitude towards everything, when all they could of said was "oh you could of gotten a hiking stick at the entrance, sorry for not telling you" and "Im sorry, but can you move out of my seat?" simple as that. Don't deal with all the jerks in the world, let them have their way and be done with it. You were not being irresponsible by asking a friend to do so. Does everyone in the world not ask someone to do something as a favor or so on and so forth? i would tell person (A) up that he crossed the line and he aint getting respect for anything.
You're being too straight forward. Someone acts like that when they don't like you. It's a lack of patience for you. The root of this story probably started weeks if not months ago.
@VoidPotato: Go
Thanks for the feedback.
Known (A) for more than 5 years. From my observation, (A) is like that to everyone. He's personally told me before that he has no qualms with reprimanding someone if he (strongly) disagree's with something they've done, doesn't matter friend of foe. I sort of sense that he pissed off (B) as well during the vacation judging by some rather harsh exchange of their words.
Also, if I was there I would have bought you a hiking stick
Thanks. I appreciate the thought :)
@Eiviyn: Go EQ: Emotional quotient
In a nutshell, I would describe it as a scale of how empathetic a person is.
As for me being overly passive, would you care to elaborate? No hostile intentions here, I'd just like to know.
To my understanding, a person who is overly passive is one who usually yields in the argument. What I usually do is think to myself "whatever makes you happy" and let it slide without being too judgemental. Giving the benefit of the doubt if I may say, but keeping in mind to do whatever I can to prevent any future conflict with the involved parties. Does this make me overly passive?
You're being too straight forward. Someone acts like that when they don't like you. It's a lack of patience for you. The root of this story probably started weeks if not months ago.
Or maybe years, I don't know. Once again if I may ask, care to elaborate on how I'm being too straightforward or lacking of patience? I honestly can't connect the dots there.
@LittleSecretTavi: Go
Sad to say, I do think (A)'s lost some of my respect for the chain of uncalled-for actions. At least, I'll know to be careful when asking (A) for help in future. Though irrelevant.. I shall point out that in life connections form, weaken or break. This is just one of the cases. I've been through a lot of shit.. So I feel pretty numb to the loss of connections these days.
PS: I like having philosophical discussions, it helps me understand people better.
I can't elaborate. Nobody could who doesn't know the situation first-hand.
The only thing anyone can glean from that is that this person doesn't respect you. As to why that is, only someone who was there can answer.
You've obviously thought about this a lot, so it clearly hit a nerve. The pessimistic side of me is saying that you secretly know why he doesn't like you and that you're looking for support elsewhere, which is a very normal thing to do.
My advise is to get on with your own thing. Deal with what's infront of you and fuck the things you can't change. You can't please everyone.
Social conduct is tricky as hell but it s just a question of personnal choice
if someone took you somewhere and that someone knows everything about the place (hiking sticks etc).. then expects you to be "on your best behavior" (following lapdog style, doing everything he does etc) then that someone is a poor "leader" .. but a leader none the less (probably why you liked him or followed him in the first place)
however confronting such leaders (which are somewhat somehow needed) gives a dubious outcome at best.. you stand out when doing so (which is not your objective, you just want to be respected not tagged)
most "leaders" need someone to repeatedly bash on .. and ridicule .. and demean.. it sort of gets them in a "good vibe" to feel "strong and confident.. and make a "better" journey for "everyone"
usually the target is someone who doesn't want to stand out, just be apart of a group (and that's never hard to come by)
so what you have to ask yourself is "what matters to you"..?
Being a punching bag is something specific.. it will give you stuff .. it will take stuff from you ...
being the one that talked back and ruined the "trip" is another specific.. it will give you stuff .. take stuff from you ..but you will no longer be someone in the crowd.. you will be "known" for it
so, (i think) most importantly then is to realize that
both ways will be regarded by OTHER PEOPLE in many different ways, and you might be made to suffer from this much more than you would think at first .. and that's what i'd advise watching out for or settling what you want for yourself...
So, usually i advise people with your type of question to become sneaky... ;)
Don't fret the public displays of nincompoops who need those to feel "good" ... but do straighten them out in smaller committees.. alone or with a reliable witness..
"plane seat" example : i agree with Voidpotato : just say a simple: "I would like to sit in my seat again if you don't mind would have instantly gotten you your seat back.. you passive aggressive little girl :) " (maybe drop the girl bit)
the stick example: sorry i don't use any .. and if i want one, i break an already dead tree branch for mine (i would never buy one ;) )..
if you are being shepherded on a hike ..don't play the part that "leader's" will assign to you.. you did what you should have.. there wasn't any more, bouhou (that's no one's fault but be happy = you saved money :) ) .. you got your sweater (much more useful/vital) and i hope you got your kicks out of the hike (don't let petty stuff/people spoil your fun).
the irresponsible bid: lolololol ..just know that few people are altruistic by nature (and will help you just "like that").. people usually are there for number 1 (Obatztrara reference "im looking out for number one = me".. lolololol .. some people are like that .. maybe most.. certainly not all)
being responsible is subjective.. being nice is not..!
so basicaly, i agree with E, don't let people (close or random) get you riled up (even internally) .. life is soooo f ck n short .. and so filled with opportunities
Decide to like A for what he is, dislike (or tell him off) him for what he is = and decide the stance you want to have with / around him (or decide to not stand for it or even to not have to make that choice :) )
in any case BE HAPPY.. you only got one life, don't spend it wallowing on stuff
same with every thing .. just be clear about what you are in for
Eiviyn ps: love Caravagio, don't fink the term n applies here.. you mean fuzzy mapmaker you ;)
It sounds like they were having a bad day even before you went and screwed it up from their perspective. Whoever these people are need to learn tho shove it and calm the hell down. So you forgot to buy a pole for your trip and they didn't bother to ask you if you wanted one. Big stinkin' deal. Why do they complain about every stupid thing. What did you do to make them think you took their seat anyway?!? As long as everyone has a place to plant their ass, it doesn't matter!! Just forget about it and make a map or something. If they ask you out again then say you can't go if you think this bull will happen again or ask if they will treat you appropriately this time even before you put down the phone.
Quote from zeldarules28:
People that hike?
----
Not here they don't.
@FuzzYD: Go
FuzzYD, You`re back?. Seems like the trip thing wasn`t so good/fun?:/
@EternalWraith: Go
How long was she gone for anyway? I have a feeling She's a she at least.
No. FuzzYD is a `he`. lol
... well that changes the scenario totally. Your friends still suck, but your taking it a bit hard....
I have yet to encounter someone on starcraft object to being called "he"
So ya, pretty much assume that.
@EternalWraith: Go
o.O but they had a Korean girl pic, then nova... I is confuzzled. O well sorry