Maybe governments are so shitty because the vast majority of politicians are religious? Just look at the US Congress, for example, the vast majority are christians (both republicans, democrats, independents, etc.). You could also look at the Iraqi government and you can notice that vast majority of politicians are muslims. You could also look are Greece's government, where the vast majority of politicians are orthodox. Similar thing with Russia. Politicians in the US are always so fearful of China's economic growth, yet China's politicians are officially atheist; but of course, you can't ignore their corrupt local officials and human rights abuses, etc.
If human rights and freedoms come from your god, then why did the polytheist Greeks, instead of the Hebrews, develop democracy, individual rights, philosophy, etc? The Greeks also had slavery, but so did ancient Israel and antebellum "democratic" US.
By the way, the medicine, vaccines, medical procedures, etc provided by religious and secular organizations are made possible by tax funded scientific research.
That's why multiverse is a hypothesis. It's only validated by mathematical models and we don't yet have the technology to detect other universes, if those universes exist.
Maybe governments are so shitty because the vast majority of politicians are religious? Just look at the US Congress, for example, the vast majority are christians (both republicans, democrats, independents, etc.). You could also look at the Iraqi government and you can notice that vast majority of politicians are muslims. You could also look are Greece's government, where the vast majority of politicians are orthodox. Similar thing with Russia. Politicians in the US are always so fearful of China's economic growth, yet China's politicians are officially atheist; but of course, you can't ignore their corrupt local officials and human rights abuses, etc.
If human rights and freedoms come from your god, then why did the polytheist Greeks, instead of the Hebrews, develop democracy, individual rights, philosophy, etc? The Greeks also had slavery, but so did ancient Israel and antebellum "democratic" US.
No those Politicians are not religious, they just lie to the masses to gain votes in their favor:/. I have no idea about Russia lol
If human rights and freedoms come from your god, then why did the polytheist Greeks, instead of the Hebrews, develop democracy, individual rights, philosophy, etc?
Well, we can certainly try to understand the scope of those individual rights in those days. What it actually meant. Morality can certainly exist apart from the bible, we can differentiate right and wrong. The bible is just more specific.
For the Hebrews it was a bit different, Basically they had the Law of Moses and everything , The commandments etc. That was the code they were to live by.
The king/leader should have always been chosen by God through a prophet, but of course If you read the scriptures they were always in rebellion and doing their own thing and killing the prophets and never listening or praying to God etc, So ye.
So, you would agree that any politician advocating for laws and policies based on religion are just lying to get the religious vote? So, a vote for Mitt Romeny or Paul Ryan (proposed anti abortion and anti gay marriage laws) or whoever would be a vote for a liar?
I'm not talking about morality. I'm talking about the concept of citizenship, individualism, individual rights, democracy, etc; it has nothing to do (in my posed question) with "morality" or "law". I'm always hearing republicans saying how "our rights are god given", yet it was the Greeks, instead of the ancient Hebrews, who established and developed this idea of individual rights. The Greeks are so "progressive" laws that forbade the punishment of slaves and mandated a payment to slaves (there were exceptions, like Sparta, but even there, it was technically illegal to kill slaves; although this part mentions law, I'm focusing on the concept that even the slave had individual rights). Some pagan Native American tribes didn't have a notion of slavery; in some tribes, captured prisoners were embraced and treated as family members; there are accounts of captured European women and they had more rights in their Native American captor societies than they did in their colonial/European societies (again, there are some notorious exceptions).
1.So, you would agree that any politician advocating for laws and policies based on religion are just lying to get the religious vote?
I'm not talking about morality. I'm talking about the concept of citizenship, individualism, individual rights, democracy, etc; it has nothing to do (in my posed question) with "morality" or "law". I'm always hearing republicans saying how "our rights are god given", yet it was the Greeks, instead of the ancient Hebrews, who established and developed this idea of individual rights.
1. Well there`s always a strong possibility, Given the nature of politics.
2. Can you post some resources on the topic?. Im not too familiar on the specifics of the subject. The Greeks could have developed or refined a society around individual rights, more strongly than previous cultures, sure.
There are books and internet articles on ancient Greece: http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/hell01.htm
It's kind of tough to find articles of slavery among Native Americans on the Internet because it keeps showing black slavery, but it's better to look for books in the library. My information came from my US history textbook and some PBS programs about US history and Native Americans, particularly the Seven Years War (French and Indian Wars), Revolutionary War, and War of 1812. Let's not forget how the "founding fathers" (Washington, Jefferson, etc) owned black slaves and viewed Native Americans as "racially inferior".
The ancient Israelis learned about individualism from the Greeks.
It doesn't mean the plagues were sent by god, just like it doesn't mean god used the Holocaust to punish Jews. Disasters happen and people try to make sense of them by giving them cause-effect relations. It's easy to say "Your child is born with autism because god is punishing you for...". It's also easy to say "You're born a woman in Afghanistan because you are being punished for the crimes you committed against women in your past life." "God caused 9/11 to punish America."
You can mitigate the devastation caused by natural disasters by having proper preparations and policies in place; for example, you could say the flu of 1918 flu pandemic was divined by god, when in reality, we didn't really comprehend viruses or had the technology to study them and find vaccines. Now, we have a policy for funding scientific research on diseases, but it's a competitive race between scientific research and global migration of individuals.
It doesn't mean the plagues were sent by god, just like it doesn't mean god used the Holocaust to punish Jews. Disasters happen and people try to make sense of them by giving them cause-effect relations. It's easy to say "Your child is born with autism because god is punishing you for...". It's also easy to say "You're born a woman in Afghanistan because you are being punished for the crimes you committed against women in your past life." "God caused 9/11 to punish America."
You can mitigate the devastation caused by natural disasters by having proper preparations and policies in place; for example, you could say the flu of 1918 flu pandemic was divined by god, when in reality, we didn't really comprehend viruses or had the technology to study them and find vaccines. Now, we have a policy for funding scientific research on diseases, but it's a competitive race between scientific research and global migration of individuals.
It's easy to say "Your child is born with autism because god is punishing you for...". It's also easy to say "You're born a woman in Afghanistan because you are being punished for the crimes you committed against women in your past life." "God caused 9/11 to punish America."
Well, except we`re not talking about that?, Neither is the bible mentioning that. What the bible does say however, appears to be true. So why doesn`t it mean the plagues were sent by God?. I know, you might be thinking that the Hebrews invented this God and kept it like that for thousands of years. However, I can tell you, that is impossible. Now Im not in the mood to write another long article detailing why, because I know people here dont[really] care about the truth.
Lets look at this however:
Bible 12:35-36 ...and they requested from the Egyptians, silver and gold articles and clothing. And God made the Egyptians favour them and they granted their request. [The Israelites] thus drained Egypt of its wealth.
Ipuwer : papyrus "Gold and lapis lazuli, silver and malachite, carnelian and bronze... are fastened on the neck of female slaves."
Now how is the mitigation of disaster applicable in the above case?. Except that Moses was real, He spoke unto Pharoah(Ramses the 2nd, its believed), His heart was hardened , The plagues occurred, Above scripture is the culmination of the fulfillment. That Egyptian city(cant remember the name) was abandoned and broken.
It's easy to say "Your child is born with autism because god is punishing you for...". It's also easy to say "You're born a woman in Afghanistan because you are being punished for the crimes you committed against women in your past life." "God caused 9/11 to punish America."
Well, except we`re not talking about that?, Neither is the bible mentioning that. What the bible does say however, appears to be true. So why doesn`t it mean the plagues were sent by God?. I know, you might be thinking that the Hebrews invented this God and kept it like that for thousands of years. However, I can tell you, that is impossible. Now Im not in the mood to write another long article detailing why, because I know people here dont[really] care about the truth.
Lets look at this however:
Bible
12:35-36 ...and they requested from the Egyptians, silver and gold articles and clothing. And God made the Egyptians favour them and they granted their request. [The Israelites] thus drained Egypt of its wealth.
Ipuwer : papyrus
"Gold and lapis lazuli, silver and malachite, carnelian and bronze... are fastened on the neck of female slaves."
Now how is the mitigation of disaster applicable in the above case?. Except that Moses was real, He spoke unto Pharoah(Ramses the 2nd, its believed), His heart was hardened , The plagues occurred, Above scripture is the culmination of the fulfillment. That Egyptian city(cant remember the name) was abandoned and broken.
Look at who you are arguing with 507 post... lol Can we close this soon? lol, This is bad... really really bad... No one has ever seen anyone elses point of views on the internet... haha
All religions have important concepts such as morality in them. However, in this modern age, religion, in my opinion, should not extend into the world of fact out of the world of faith.
Furthermore science should in no way be thought of as an alternative to religion. The difference between facts and faith has been made clear. Facts are something generally accepted. Faith is much more personal and spiritual. Spirituality is important part of our human lifestyle, and I think we should all be able to practice in our own way.
When the bible was written it was a amazing document. It still has historic and spiritual meaning to this day. However I would suggest to differentiate between faith and fact.
@all the atheists:
EternalWriath is clearly an educated individual capable of determining for himself what he believes. He clearly understands your position and he clearly has justification for his arguments.
I want to make my respect to all parties clear- because when there is no right answer, nobody is wrong.
No one has ever seen anyone elses point of views on the internet... haha
If it wasn't for the internet I would still be a christian.
Not only should this thread remain open, it is the duty of every rational person to combat religion's bigotry and anti-scientific beliefs which are damaging to humanity's progress. How are we supposed to raise the next generation of scientists when we can't accept core scientific theories like evolution, let alone of the ridiculous idea that life wasn't wiped out in some giant flood a few thousand years ago? We've got Muslims actually killing people over some video that hitherto was never even seen by anyone. We've got people protesting at dead soldier's funerals. That's unacceptable. Religion does some good things, but overall I think people are good & decent enough that they can contribute through secular means and that religion as a whole is unneeded.
It would be nice if "nobody was wrong" and "fact did not extend into faith", but that's clearly not the case. If it was, then not a single atheist would have any problems:
Actually, we are talking about the same thing: trying to give reason for "inexplicable" events and disasters. To parents, it would "inexplicable" why their child is born with "undesirable" abnormalities. The victory of the Union over the Confederacy was "inexplicable" to many southerners. The defeat of Xerxes was "inexplicable" to the Persians, but the Greeks "explained" it as a deity (nemesis) punishing Xerxes for hubris. Even people try to explain the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah using religion.
Egypt was never "drained of it's wealth". Egypt remained quite wealthy in terms of materials and knowledge through at least the collapse of the Roman Empire. Archaeologists are still discovering "post exodus" tombs containing beautiful material treasures. Around the time of the exodus, a lot of cities were abandoned during the "Bronze Age Collapse" from Myceannae, to Anatolia, to Crete, to the Levant, to Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley, and to Egypt.
Again, no evidence to suggest that these events were the culmination of some omnipotent being's plans.
Look at who you are arguing with 507 post... lol Can we close this soon? lol, This is bad... really really bad... No one has ever seen anyone elses point of views on the internet... haha
For me to show them how perfectly broken human evolution theory is, For Gradius to explain[in detail] Multiverse(Which I already know) hypothesis(Oh and I have tons of questions on this for you). Bring up all religions against the Bible, We can scrutinize it together, reasons for belief and comparisons. Etc. Im not trying to convert anyone(because its not my place) and I know none here will come to God, but I will make sure I leave them all without excuse.
You however should avoid this discussion. You`re immaturity and some of your comments...are just out of line at times.
@FDFedaration:
So, The Egyptians were tricked by this Made-up god that the Hebrews created?,. That they would believe these slaves and let them go, like that. No, sorry, but thats requiring much more faith on the premise of absurdity.
Wealth can also be easily drained and restored in short enough periods of time, and until the Roman time is quite a stretch(depending how far exactly you`re actually pointing to)
Oh, and for those following the thread and dont know about the biblical ten plague of Egypt and the now scientific and historic evidence we have for it, . It went something like this: Love this movie by the way.
If it wasn't for the Satan I would still be a christian.
Fix`d.
This reminds me of something Luke 8
While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”
When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
Jesus said to his disciples : This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 1.Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 2.Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. .They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.3.The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.
Im not sure if you fall in category 1 , 2, or 3, .
Ive been there too, but unlike you, persisted.
Even people try to explain the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah using religion.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed long ago. Again, the bible tells us how and(of course why)
"Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of Heaven; and he overthrew those cities and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities ... [Abraham] looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and beheld, and lo, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace."
Source: Genesis 19:24-28
Save me your reply of `natural disaster`, I know that logic
If miracle can be explained = natural disaster = No God
If miracle cant be explained = No proof = No God
The latter is a contradiction, and every miracle can be explained by its process whether we can understand it at present or in the future. Nevertheless, God by definition can do all things.
Im still waiting on my atheist brothers to challenge me on the historical aspect of the bible,
Nobody wants to get into a superman vs. batman debate with you, especially since we know it's hard enough to convince you that absurdities such as giant floods wiping out all life didn't happen. My list of absurdities from the bible starting with the fire breathing monster in the book of job is meant to be rhetorical, but as usual, you felt compelled to defend it all anyway. You enjoy debating about the realm of the ancient past because it's full of dubious/ambiguous "evidence" that can never be proved just like your bible. Who is going to argue history with someone who is honestly convinced that people once lived to be 800 years old? *facepalm
Quote:
For
Gradius to explain[in detail] Multiverse(Which I already know)
Yeah I'm sure you know it as well as you knew what "paganism" was. -_-
You proceeded to ignore me until I asked you again and you just linked me to M-theory:
Quote:
Oh, the multiverse question. There`s hardly anything solid on the theory/hypothesis ,Im not sure what we can discuss on it. I can ask you questions on it, but, I dont know if you will be able to answer. But alright, I`ll get to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_(M-theory)
So...what's going on? No I don't need you to quiz me on m-theory since:
1) Neither of us are astrophysicists
2) The theory itself is not complete
3) It's not the only multiverse theory
Quote:
If it wasn't for the Satan I would still be a christian.
Fix`d.
^-this is why religion needs to be purged. This type of mind can't be reasoned with. "If he doesn't share my opinion, then he must be evil & corrupted by Satan".
I'm not sure how you misinterpret my present-day US English words to say that the Hebrew tricked the Egyptians...
I said the Hebrews, like every other culture in the absence of science, made up a reason for explaining disasters.
Still doesn't show that the Hebrews "drained" Egypt's wealth. Your argument is like saying the Hebrew's drained America's wealth during the recession.
Lots of fiction tales (including your bible) base their background, plot, setting on actual historical events; it doesn't mean the story is an absolute factual recounting of historical events. Your argument is similar to suggesting that H.G. Wells an actual martian invasion.
We're re-arguing the same points that have already been mentioned in previous posts...
Fixed:
"Ceiling Cat said to Its disciples : This is the meaning of the parable: The yarn is the word of play. 1.Those along the plate are the ones who eat, and then the Basement Cat comes and takes away the cheezburge from their mouths, so that they may not eated and be fulled. 2.Those on the roomba are the ones who ride with joy when they use it, but they has no cheezburger. They play for a while, but in the time of testing they fall asleep. 3.The yarn that fell among boxes stands for those who play, but as they go on their way they are tangled by play, and they do not meow. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a whiskers and furry paws, who eated the cheezburger, retain it, and by persevering produce catnip."
@EternalWraith: Go
Sodom and Gomorrah may or may not even exist, but certain religious people want them to exist, so they manipulate archaeology to "prove" they exist.
You have yet to show any capacity for logic. It's my job to explain to you why you're view of "truth" isn't absolute or universal truth.
If things can't be explained = On going research
So, tell me, do you have faith that your god will save you if you jumped off a skyscraper? I like how you keep dodging the question.
I don't know if for some reason you ignored my question earlier in this thread (I often don't respond to incredible stupid post myself *Cough* Taintedwisp *Cough*) or just missed it but why does Jesus talk to God in the bible? God is almighty, implying that he needs to know anything sounds pretty weird to me.
To be totally honest, I think this thread should be closed by now. I'm all for everyone being allowed to express their opinions on this topic, but people have already had ample chance. This thread is just devolving into a flame war, it seems. You guys aren't going to be able to convince the other side that they're wrong and you're right. That should be clear by now. People are mostly just saying that the other side are ignorant fools, and then stating their ideas, only to be met by a post of practically the same exact post from the other side, and that cycle is just repeating.
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@EternalWraith: Go
Maybe governments are so shitty because the vast majority of politicians are religious? Just look at the US Congress, for example, the vast majority are christians (both republicans, democrats, independents, etc.). You could also look at the Iraqi government and you can notice that vast majority of politicians are muslims. You could also look are Greece's government, where the vast majority of politicians are orthodox. Similar thing with Russia. Politicians in the US are always so fearful of China's economic growth, yet China's politicians are officially atheist; but of course, you can't ignore their corrupt local officials and human rights abuses, etc.
If human rights and freedoms come from your god, then why did the polytheist Greeks, instead of the Hebrews, develop democracy, individual rights, philosophy, etc? The Greeks also had slavery, but so did ancient Israel and antebellum "democratic" US.
By the way, the medicine, vaccines, medical procedures, etc provided by religious and secular organizations are made possible by tax funded scientific research.
That's why multiverse is a hypothesis. It's only validated by mathematical models and we don't yet have the technology to detect other universes, if those universes exist.
No those Politicians are not religious, they just lie to the masses to gain votes in their favor:/. I have no idea about Russia lol
If human rights and freedoms come from your god, then why did the polytheist Greeks, instead of the Hebrews, develop democracy, individual rights, philosophy, etc?
Well, we can certainly try to understand the scope of those individual rights in those days. What it actually meant. Morality can certainly exist apart from the bible, we can differentiate right and wrong. The bible is just more specific.
For the Hebrews it was a bit different, Basically they had the Law of Moses and everything , The commandments etc. That was the code they were to live by.
The king/leader should have always been chosen by God through a prophet, but of course If you read the scriptures they were always in rebellion and doing their own thing and killing the prophets and never listening or praying to God etc, So ye.
@EternalWraith: Go
So, you would agree that any politician advocating for laws and policies based on religion are just lying to get the religious vote? So, a vote for Mitt Romeny or Paul Ryan (proposed anti abortion and anti gay marriage laws) or whoever would be a vote for a liar?
I'm not talking about morality. I'm talking about the concept of citizenship, individualism, individual rights, democracy, etc; it has nothing to do (in my posed question) with "morality" or "law". I'm always hearing republicans saying how "our rights are god given", yet it was the Greeks, instead of the ancient Hebrews, who established and developed this idea of individual rights. The Greeks are so "progressive" laws that forbade the punishment of slaves and mandated a payment to slaves (there were exceptions, like Sparta, but even there, it was technically illegal to kill slaves; although this part mentions law, I'm focusing on the concept that even the slave had individual rights). Some pagan Native American tribes didn't have a notion of slavery; in some tribes, captured prisoners were embraced and treated as family members; there are accounts of captured European women and they had more rights in their Native American captor societies than they did in their colonial/European societies (again, there are some notorious exceptions).
1. Well there`s always a strong possibility, Given the nature of politics.
2. Can you post some resources on the topic?. Im not too familiar on the specifics of the subject. The Greeks could have developed or refined a society around individual rights, more strongly than previous cultures, sure.
But now, ok, You answer me something, How do you explain this ?
http://masada1234.blogspot.com/2008/04/archaeological-evidence-for-ten-plagues.html
@FDFederation: Go
Bible on Slavery(Something more like hired maids/servents in the present), More or less:
http://www.openbible.info/topics/slavery
@EternalWraith: Go
There are books and internet articles on ancient Greece: http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/hell01.htm It's kind of tough to find articles of slavery among Native Americans on the Internet because it keeps showing black slavery, but it's better to look for books in the library. My information came from my US history textbook and some PBS programs about US history and Native Americans, particularly the Seven Years War (French and Indian Wars), Revolutionary War, and War of 1812. Let's not forget how the "founding fathers" (Washington, Jefferson, etc) owned black slaves and viewed Native Americans as "racially inferior".
The ancient Israelis learned about individualism from the Greeks.
It doesn't mean the plagues were sent by god, just like it doesn't mean god used the Holocaust to punish Jews. Disasters happen and people try to make sense of them by giving them cause-effect relations. It's easy to say "Your child is born with autism because god is punishing you for...". It's also easy to say "You're born a woman in Afghanistan because you are being punished for the crimes you committed against women in your past life." "God caused 9/11 to punish America."
You can mitigate the devastation caused by natural disasters by having proper preparations and policies in place; for example, you could say the flu of 1918 flu pandemic was divined by god, when in reality, we didn't really comprehend viruses or had the technology to study them and find vaccines. Now, we have a policy for funding scientific research on diseases, but it's a competitive race between scientific research and global migration of individuals.
It's easy to say "Your child is born with autism because god is punishing you for...". It's also easy to say "You're born a woman in Afghanistan because you are being punished for the crimes you committed against women in your past life." "God caused 9/11 to punish America."
Well, except we`re not talking about that?, Neither is the bible mentioning that. What the bible does say however, appears to be true. So why doesn`t it mean the plagues were sent by God?. I know, you might be thinking that the Hebrews invented this God and kept it like that for thousands of years. However, I can tell you, that is impossible. Now Im not in the mood to write another long article detailing why, because I know people here dont[really] care about the truth.
Lets look at this however:
Bible
12:35-36 ...and they requested from the Egyptians, silver and gold articles and clothing. And God made the Egyptians favour them and they granted their request. [The Israelites] thus drained Egypt of its wealth.
Ipuwer : papyrus
"Gold and lapis lazuli, silver and malachite, carnelian and bronze... are fastened on the neck of female slaves."
Now how is the mitigation of disaster applicable in the above case?. Except that Moses was real, He spoke unto Pharoah(Ramses the 2nd, its believed), His heart was hardened , The plagues occurred, Above scripture is the culmination of the fulfillment. That Egyptian city(cant remember the name) was abandoned and broken.
Look at who you are arguing with 507 post... lol Can we close this soon? lol, This is bad... really really bad... No one has ever seen anyone elses point of views on the internet... haha
This conversation is getting on my nerves.
All religions have important concepts such as morality in them. However, in this modern age, religion, in my opinion, should not extend into the world of fact out of the world of faith.
Furthermore science should in no way be thought of as an alternative to religion. The difference between facts and faith has been made clear. Facts are something generally accepted. Faith is much more personal and spiritual. Spirituality is important part of our human lifestyle, and I think we should all be able to practice in our own way.
@EternalWraith: Go
When the bible was written it was a amazing document. It still has historic and spiritual meaning to this day. However I would suggest to differentiate between faith and fact.
@all the atheists:
EternalWriath is clearly an educated individual capable of determining for himself what he believes. He clearly understands your position and he clearly has justification for his arguments.
I want to make my respect to all parties clear- because when there is no right answer, nobody is wrong.
If it wasn't for the internet I would still be a christian.
Not only should this thread remain open, it is the duty of every rational person to combat religion's bigotry and anti-scientific beliefs which are damaging to humanity's progress. How are we supposed to raise the next generation of scientists when we can't accept core scientific theories like evolution, let alone of the ridiculous idea that life wasn't wiped out in some giant flood a few thousand years ago? We've got Muslims actually killing people over some video that hitherto was never even seen by anyone. We've got people protesting at dead soldier's funerals. That's unacceptable. Religion does some good things, but overall I think people are good & decent enough that they can contribute through secular means and that religion as a whole is unneeded.
It would be nice if "nobody was wrong" and "fact did not extend into faith", but that's clearly not the case. If it was, then not a single atheist would have any problems:
@grenegg: Go
Actually, in the example of 1*0 = 0, 0 is the right answer. All other answers would be wrong.
@EternalWraith: Go
Actually, we are talking about the same thing: trying to give reason for "inexplicable" events and disasters. To parents, it would "inexplicable" why their child is born with "undesirable" abnormalities. The victory of the Union over the Confederacy was "inexplicable" to many southerners. The defeat of Xerxes was "inexplicable" to the Persians, but the Greeks "explained" it as a deity (nemesis) punishing Xerxes for hubris. Even people try to explain the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah using religion.
Egypt was never "drained of it's wealth". Egypt remained quite wealthy in terms of materials and knowledge through at least the collapse of the Roman Empire. Archaeologists are still discovering "post exodus" tombs containing beautiful material treasures. Around the time of the exodus, a lot of cities were abandoned during the "Bronze Age Collapse" from Myceannae, to Anatolia, to Crete, to the Levant, to Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley, and to Egypt.
Again, no evidence to suggest that these events were the culmination of some omnipotent being's plans.
Im still waiting on my atheist brothers to challenge me on the historical aspect of the bible,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2141942/Ancient-relics-definite-sign-Bibles-King-David-theyre-facing-Philistine-city-Goliath-home-.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100226-king-solomon-wall-jerusalem-bible/
etc
For me to show them how perfectly broken human evolution theory is, For Gradius to explain[in detail] Multiverse(Which I already know) hypothesis(Oh and I have tons of questions on this for you). Bring up all religions against the Bible, We can scrutinize it together, reasons for belief and comparisons. Etc. Im not trying to convert anyone(because its not my place) and I know none here will come to God, but I will make sure I leave them all without excuse.
You however should avoid this discussion. You`re immaturity and some of your comments...are just out of line at times.
@FDFedaration:
So, The Egyptians were tricked by this Made-up god that the Hebrews created?,. That they would believe these slaves and let them go, like that. No, sorry, but thats requiring much more faith on the premise of absurdity.
Wealth can also be easily drained and restored in short enough periods of time, and until the Roman time is quite a stretch(depending how far exactly you`re actually pointing to)
Oh, and for those following the thread and dont know about the biblical ten plague of Egypt and the now scientific and historic evidence we have for it, . It went something like this: Love this movie by the way.
Fix`d.
This reminds me of something
Luke 8
While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”
When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
Jesus said to his disciples : This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 1.Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 2.Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. .They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 3.The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.
Im not sure if you fall in category 1 , 2, or 3, .
Ive been there too, but unlike you, persisted.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed long ago. Again, the bible tells us how and(of course why)
"Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of Heaven; and he overthrew those cities and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities ... [Abraham] looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and beheld, and lo, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace."
Source: Genesis 19:24-28
Not too long ago scientists and archaelogists have discovered the ruins.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1497476.stm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343674,00.html
Save me your reply of `natural disaster`, I know that logic
If miracle can be explained = natural disaster = No God
If miracle cant be explained = No proof = No God
The latter is a contradiction, and every miracle can be explained by its process whether we can understand it at present or in the future. Nevertheless, God by definition can do all things.
Nobody wants to get into a superman vs. batman debate with you, especially since we know it's hard enough to convince you that absurdities such as giant floods wiping out all life didn't happen. My list of absurdities from the bible starting with the fire breathing monster in the book of job is meant to be rhetorical, but as usual, you felt compelled to defend it all anyway. You enjoy debating about the realm of the ancient past because it's full of dubious/ambiguous "evidence" that can never be proved just like your bible. Who is going to argue history with someone who is honestly convinced that people once lived to be 800 years old? *facepalm
Yeah I'm sure you know it as well as you knew what "paganism" was. -_-
Anyway, I politely asked you to address my post: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/off-topic/42073-do-you-consider-yourself-part-of-an-organized-religion/?page=24#p477
You proceeded to ignore me until I asked you again and you just linked me to M-theory:
So...what's going on? No I don't need you to quiz me on m-theory since:
1) Neither of us are astrophysicists
2) The theory itself is not complete
3) It's not the only multiverse theory
^-this is why religion needs to be purged. This type of mind can't be reasoned with. "If he doesn't share my opinion, then he must be evil & corrupted by Satan".
@EternalWraith: Go
I'm not sure how you misinterpret my present-day US English words to say that the Hebrew tricked the Egyptians... I said the Hebrews, like every other culture in the absence of science, made up a reason for explaining disasters. Still doesn't show that the Hebrews "drained" Egypt's wealth. Your argument is like saying the Hebrew's drained America's wealth during the recession. Lots of fiction tales (including your bible) base their background, plot, setting on actual historical events; it doesn't mean the story is an absolute factual recounting of historical events. Your argument is similar to suggesting that H.G. Wells an actual martian invasion.
We're re-arguing the same points that have already been mentioned in previous posts...
Fixed: "Ceiling Cat said to Its disciples : This is the meaning of the parable: The yarn is the word of play. 1.Those along the plate are the ones who eat, and then the Basement Cat comes and takes away the cheezburge from their mouths, so that they may not eated and be fulled. 2.Those on the roomba are the ones who ride with joy when they use it, but they has no cheezburger. They play for a while, but in the time of testing they fall asleep. 3.The yarn that fell among boxes stands for those who play, but as they go on their way they are tangled by play, and they do not meow. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a whiskers and furry paws, who eated the cheezburger, retain it, and by persevering produce catnip."
@EternalWraith: Go Sodom and Gomorrah may or may not even exist, but certain religious people want them to exist, so they manipulate archaeology to "prove" they exist.
You have yet to show any capacity for logic. It's my job to explain to you why you're view of "truth" isn't absolute or universal truth. If things can't be explained = On going research
So, tell me, do you have faith that your god will save you if you jumped off a skyscraper? I like how you keep dodging the question.
@EternalWraith: Go
I don't know if for some reason you ignored my question earlier in this thread (I often don't respond to incredible stupid post myself *Cough* Taintedwisp *Cough*) or just missed it but why does Jesus talk to God in the bible? God is almighty, implying that he needs to know anything sounds pretty weird to me.
@EternalWraith: Go
You cited Fox News. LMAO
To be totally honest, I think this thread should be closed by now. I'm all for everyone being allowed to express their opinions on this topic, but people have already had ample chance. This thread is just devolving into a flame war, it seems. You guys aren't going to be able to convince the other side that they're wrong and you're right. That should be clear by now. People are mostly just saying that the other side are ignorant fools, and then stating their ideas, only to be met by a post of practically the same exact post from the other side, and that cycle is just repeating.