Hey everyone, I've decided to make this post as a sampling of opinions from other mappers out there. For any of you that have had maps on page 1 (or around there) I'll be really interested in what you have to say especially.
The reason for this posting is because of my recently popular map: Prisoner Rebellion. For a couple weeks it enjoyed page 1 with thousands of games played. I had lots of emails and even a few close testers who reported to me almost daily. It was a busy schedule during the winter break with almost every day being filled with hours of work to update/fix/balance/support. Slowly it got more and more polished and I didn't have to put as much time into it. Somehow (maybe because of Tuesday resets) it fell quite rapidly after the 'hot' weeks before. Currently it's on page 3 and is likely going to continue falling.
I don't know why it's dieing, maybe people went too crazy and are now bored of it... but other maps don't seem to have this problem as much (excluding the possibility that some maps are boosted). The important question is the following:
Should I keep updating it or just move on? I have my big RPG project that certainly could use my time (not to mention tutorials I could be making)... but you don't want to just abandon a map. I have a feeling prisoner rebellion will not be popular again. I base this on the fact that I've had about 3-4 page 1 maps that have all died within a few weeks (regardless of how polished and good people say it is).
For instance, my TD was popular but died and so I never did add the 4th race which I had said I was going to... no one got hurt and no one cares... and I didn't waste my time putting in a 4th race to a map that may never be played again. Sure I could boost it a few games and watch it go back up; but, I know it'll die soon after lol.
So what do you guys think? What would you do in this position? I'm happy with the map the way it is but there are some things that could be done; however I don't want to waste my time on a sinking ship...
I had the same experience back in WC3. My first map was also in the tag genre, Tropical Tag. I invested a lot of time into it and TT had some periods of sunshine. But, I finally realized the limitations of the genre and furthermore the limitations of my audience (BNET). I didn't give up right away, but in hindsight it would have been wiser to have ditched it for Element TD earlier. Once I did drop it though, I never looked back. Element TD worked out well to say the least. So the jist of it is don't get fooled by sunk cost. If you think you can make a better game, then drop this one now.
Well I just think my RPG is definitely a keeper; however my tag map was one I had made privately in war3 and me and friends played it for years... but I guess you guys are right.
OneTwo, your map is fun, but it gets boring once you explored the whole map. You can bet the audience would increase if you release new modes with different and bigger terrains. Also, a skilled prisoner cannot be beaten.
95% of the maps on battle.net gets boring after some dozens of games. I’m tired of all of them. I don’t know how some maps are stucked in the top, though. Maybe some people don’t get bored or the maps are being boosted.
That there is no real reason to complain. I'm going to take a shitty example to start with:
Who really plays again and again the campaign maps? I'm pretty sure right now, more than 90% of SC2 players already finished the campaign once or twice, so there is almost nobody playing these maps anymore. Do Blizzard mappers complain about it? No. (well, it's a bit more complicated in their case because they own both the campaign maps and melee maps, so there are always players on their maps anyway... but you get the idea: maps are often "wasted" even if they are really well made and their authors spent a lot of time on them)
Anyway, my point is you shouldn't be that concerned about the "loss of fame" of your map... Maps (and video games in general) are entertainment. It's not supposed to last, and only a few people have that chance. Others simply cheat (by boosting their map rank on BNet, for example). If your map had some success, it already did its job and you should be proud of it as it is. No matter how long it took you to create it, most people won't even care about that because their only concern is having fun quickly (which is why people mostly play maps from the first page)... If you do maps for fame, you'll only get deceived. I spent 60+ hours on my Ikari Warriors map, I got only 10 downloads in 2 weeks. I don't care that much, I love my map and I enjoy playing it again and again anyway... It's pretty easy to have friends on BNet and play with them if you need more players too... :)
Just look closely at video games in 2010... Which one really had enough success to last a whole year? Almost none, maybe around 10-15 games at most. And yet, there were hundreds of them made. Same goes for custom maps, you can't do a map and expect it to work just because it was well done AND enjoyable to play/replay. It happens, more often than you think, and it's not entirely due to the BNet ranking system and the cheaters boosting their maps... ;)
That there is no real reason to complain. I'm going to take a shitty example to start with:
Who really plays again and again the campaign maps? I'm pretty sure right now, more than 90% of SC2 players already finished the campaign once or twice, so there is almost nobody playing these maps anymore. Do Blizzard mappers complain about it? No. (well, it's a bit more complicated in their case because they own both the campaign maps and melee maps, so there are always players on their maps anyway... but you get the idea: maps are often "wasted" even if they are really well made and their authors spent a lot of time on them)
Indeed, this is a shitty example. The reason being that campaign maps were designed to be a play it once or twice type of thing. They are far more intertwined with a story and do not focus at all on creating replayable gameplay. Maps are only "wasted" if the authors don't know what they are doing. Is the popularity system good? No. But, it is possible to have success with a good map and a good plan (and no that doesn't just mean boosting).
Anyway, my point is you shouldn't be that concerned about the "loss of fame" of your map... Maps (and video games in general) are entertainment. It's not supposed to last, and only a few people have that chance. Others simply cheat (by boosting their map rank on BNet, for example). If your map had some success, it already did its job and you should be proud of it as it is. No matter how long it took you to create it, most people won't even care about that because their only concern is having fun quickly (which is why people mostly play maps from the first page)... If you do maps for fame, you'll only get deceived. I spent 60+ hours on my Ikari Warriors map, I got only 10 downloads in 2 weeks. I don't care that much, I love my map and I enjoy playing it again and again anyway... It's pretty easy to have friends on BNet and play with them if you need more players too... :)
No offense, but you come across as a person scorned (which you are). Good entertainment can last a long time, great entertainment can last ages. So actually, it is supposed to last. One thing I like about mapping over standard retail, is that you get a chance to evolve your game instead of a release once and watch type of thing. You're right that no one cares about how long you spent on your map, and nor should they. The user has but one goal, have fun. If you spent 100+ hours and they don't have fun, tough shit.
Just look closely at video games in 2010... Which one really had enough success to last a whole year? Almost none, maybe around 10-15 games at most. And yet, there were hundreds of them made. Same goes for custom maps, you can't do a map and expect it to work just because it was well done AND enjoyable to play/replay. It happens, more often than you think, and it's not entirely due to the BNet ranking system and the cheaters boosting their maps... ;)
The retail industry is a whole different beast than mapping. Also, companies these days are trying to release cookie cutter games in an attempt to minimize risk. There are not a lot of long lasting games because it is more profitable to name it 2011 (or 2 etc.) and release it again.
Your final point is perhaps the worst to end on. First of all, it has to be enjoyable to your audience. You may think it is the most fun game, but if BNET disagrees then no dice for you. Now, on one account you're right. Well made, fun, and playable again are not enough to get to page one. You also have to have a plan in place. How to introduce it, how to promote it, and how to maintain it. Things that come to mind in no particular order are; map website, youtube videos, map forums, SC2Mapster (+others) posts, boosting (initially), and updates.
The reason why lots of popular maps remain on the top list is because they are on the TOP list. That is sadly the very nature of the current distribution method, which is to encourage people to play the current-popular maps. That's simply a fact., unless you include some of the popular AoS genres which have huge PR behind them.
So, once things reset, those maps that get played initially will become the dominant popular maps. In essence, your map isn't bad, it's the nature of the distribution method Blizzard implemented AKA Pop-Sys's fault.
No offense taken. You pretty much have the same point-of-view as mine, just with your own words.
I know good entertainment exists, but you can't deny it's very rare (compared to the number of games released each year, only a few have noticeable success and only rare ones will last more than a year). My final point being: Making maps (and/or games) for fame is an utopia. It only happens in very rare cases... If you have a moderate success you can already be proud of your work, especially when you're an amateur map maker.
I worked 3 months on Totally Spies 3 on DS, the game did not sell much, the levels were awful (...sorry, my bad! :D ), and yet I'm kind of proud of it. OneTwo should be proud of what he did with his map, the success of a map is not revealing of its quality (especially on BNet because of the popularity system). 90% of the BNet popularity system is all about advertising your map. Seems pretty much like the same process as advertising games on TV: only big companies could afford it but it doesn't mean their games are better anyway...
Big ones eat small ones, that's how it works. It doesn't mean you shouldn't put a lot of effort in making maps, it only means you should not expect your map to become famous. If it happens, good for you. If it doesn't, let's just say it's normal and you shouldn't make a big deal out of it. Expecting the better can only be deceiving... Trust me on that...
Game with long term motivation are always for player vs player, except some training map.
Team survivor is fun, but the mapper made them so diffecult to prevent people win it.
Because if someonw win that game, maybe he will never play again.
Me as player is tired about that.
That is why, I always want to make a game that I can play 1000 time without get bored.
Zealnaga kind of took the wrong message out of my post.. karawasa's response nailed it. My problem has nothing to do with the fame; it has to do with how I should spend my time. I personally don't want to spend 60 hours on a map that no one plays but my friends. I'd much rather build something big that can have a following and a community. This also comes from the fact that most of my maps need > 5 players to be fun. But it's hard to tell if I put more time into it that it would become popular again. Although, if my map sits on page 3 comfortably, I want to keep that small group satisfied (just as blizzard would keep updating diablo II for years).
I think I will move on though... I am happy and proud to have made it up there for a while like you mention zealnaga... but it's kind of annoying when you do all that and people support you and then 2 weeks later its gone and everyone disappears...
As for redmarine, that may be true but at this point I've gone through several maps that have been up there and fell off too. I don't really understand how some other maps stay on so long (aside from maybe SOTIS). I'm kind of like rodrigo.. a few games and that's enough for me.. so maybe we can conclude boosting is going on??
heres what i think, it all has to do with replay value, as a guy mentioned earlier in this thread, the single player campaigns are a perfect example of why something can be very well made, yet it can also decline and die off. I played the campaign once, and i dont want to play it again for atleast another year.
Does that mean the campaign was bad? no, it just means it has no replay value.
Now your map is a tag kind of map right onetwo? ,it depends how much replay value there is in , Ppl will get bored after playing it for 30+ times. Like you said you cant play the same thing either :P.
Now when you watch maps like SOTIS, or marine arena for e.g, they stay up there because every game is different, How different can a cops vrs robbers game be? . It all boils down to the replay value on whether your map stays up there , or slowly dies off . Again it has nothing to do with "if the map is good or bad".
I've been getting emails for 5 months from people asking when I'll be adding new features to Vexal Tower Defense. I just tell them "soon".
After a while, using the data editor becomes so tedious, especially for objects that aren't "special" (meaning no special data that couldn't easily be done in War3). The added complexity becomes a huge waste of time, even if you know how to use it inside and out.
it's kind of annoying when you do all that and people support you and then 2 weeks later its gone and everyone disappears...
That's why I call games an entertainment: It never lasts... That's probably the most depressing "side effect" when you work in this business, you know in advance that everything you do is going to be lost in 2, 5, maybe 10 years at best... Some nerdy guys might keep playing it when it becomes abandonware, but who really cares? That's how it is, you can't do much about it. It's even worse with custom maps because 98% of the published maps are done by complete amateurs, no one knows about them and no one will ever care. Who can tell the names of the guy(s) who made Star Battle and SOTIS? I'm pretty sure you'll have to check to answer this.
Even though it looks really depressing somehow, I wouldn't mind either about how much time you spend on making a map. My Ikari Warriors map is around 60 hours of work now, I assume it will need 30-40 more hours to add the second level... And I already know it won't become much more famous than it is now, for a few good reasons (which have nothing to do with the BNet popularity system itself by the way, even though it doesn't help). I don't care that much, because it helped me to understand lots of things about the editor, and I intend to make something really good out of my second project (which was not even supposed to be one, to begin with!). My third project is kind of stuck right now, but I assume finishing my second project will help... And so on!
My point being: Don't worry about spending hours and hours on a map that won't get far. As long as you get better at what you are doing, sooner or later your maps will catch the attention of players if all your maps are done with the same quality. That's pretty much how any entertainment works: music, art, television... They spend lots of money, time, and efforts and they're not sure it will work. That's why it's so exciting (and so depressing at the same time), the more fame you gain the better. But you can't win every time (unless named Michael Jackson... or Chuck Norris), and your success can stop anytime, very quickly.
Anyway, YES, boosting is the main problem here. I can only think of one solution about this: restricting the creation of games to 3 per hour, per user, per map. This way, you can't play more than 3 <name a map here> per hour as the host. Which also means you can't boost your map by constantly creating games... 3 might be a bit too restrictive, but you get the idea.
Lol Vexal good plan... but yeah I have the same issue with data tbh. I could barely manage it in war3 when it was 1 unit... but now even with my experience/age/patience, making 40x(unit+actor+weapon+effect+weapon actors+etc+etc+etc) is killer. My TD still says "4th race coming soon" but that was months ago haha.
Mine says "2nd half of 2nd race coming soon, plus 3rd race".
I'm awaiting the new patch, which should make adding vertical effects much less of a pain with the new z-parameter. All of my towers with effects that utilize z coordinates were a huge pain to make.
The same with adding requirements without copy-and-paste. It took forever, especially if you messed up one; you have to start completely over.
And panels. All of my dialogs have buttons randomly placed in the around the box, since I can never work up the patience to set their size and translation so that anything lines up.
Well I find it's important to step back from time to time and try to view your map from a neutral point of view. Ask yourself, Is it easy to pick up and learn for new players, is there a depth of skill for experiences players, does it have re playability? etc. etc.
Many mappers get too heavily into their map and are unwilling or unable to see it flaws.
Some map genres are naturally harder to get a loyal audience. Typically ppl do tend to prefer competitive 2 team maps the most.
Hard to say really whether to move on or not. I am in the same situation. I released beta version of my TD map back in Nov and got pretty good reception. got some email and feedbacks. Then I took it off for some updates. Then I released it again in Dec. And nobody plays it anymore...
Thinking whether to move on to the new map or continue adding 2nd builder type... I have another map in mind as well...
I tried to put myself in neutral position. I think that TD genre is so 2000 and late. It's dead. Like racing genre. The trend has shifted, unless you can make a really really cool innovation on TD.
If you notice. none of the TD made it to the top. Even Endercraft can only do that much. Mercy TD can only reach that level.
The audience looks to have changed as well. Perhaps most SC1, WC3 player are old now and they no longer play SC2. The new generations doesn't embrace TD, RPG, Strategic/Tactical custom game. They love Tug of Wars and 1 Million Zergling, 1 Million Ultralisk.
Or perhaps those players who embrace TD, RPG, or Strategic/Tactical game are still enjoying Melee maps?
Hard to tell...
Even Blizzard's map that has lava going up every few mins is now gone.
And I am willing to bet. Blizzard's Map Aiur Chef will not succeed unless Blizzard features it.
Starjeweled will do well as it is tug of war essentially. Left 2 Die debatable. I think it won't do that well.
Blizzard All-Stars won't show up for a while looks like. But this one will stay on top.
You see my bet? Tug of War, DotA will last. Cute, out of the box map like Aiur Chef will die.
I find it amazing that TUG's and the other maps you listed from sc1 are so popular. As a war3 person I'm not too happy with them lol... but we're still early in the game :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey everyone, I've decided to make this post as a sampling of opinions from other mappers out there. For any of you that have had maps on page 1 (or around there) I'll be really interested in what you have to say especially.
The reason for this posting is because of my recently popular map: Prisoner Rebellion. For a couple weeks it enjoyed page 1 with thousands of games played. I had lots of emails and even a few close testers who reported to me almost daily. It was a busy schedule during the winter break with almost every day being filled with hours of work to update/fix/balance/support. Slowly it got more and more polished and I didn't have to put as much time into it. Somehow (maybe because of Tuesday resets) it fell quite rapidly after the 'hot' weeks before. Currently it's on page 3 and is likely going to continue falling.
I don't know why it's dieing, maybe people went too crazy and are now bored of it... but other maps don't seem to have this problem as much (excluding the possibility that some maps are boosted). The important question is the following:
Should I keep updating it or just move on? I have my big RPG project that certainly could use my time (not to mention tutorials I could be making)... but you don't want to just abandon a map. I have a feeling prisoner rebellion will not be popular again. I base this on the fact that I've had about 3-4 page 1 maps that have all died within a few weeks (regardless of how polished and good people say it is).
For instance, my TD was popular but died and so I never did add the 4th race which I had said I was going to... no one got hurt and no one cares... and I didn't waste my time putting in a 4th race to a map that may never be played again. Sure I could boost it a few games and watch it go back up; but, I know it'll die soon after lol.
So what do you guys think? What would you do in this position? I'm happy with the map the way it is but there are some things that could be done; however I don't want to waste my time on a sinking ship...
I had the same experience back in WC3. My first map was also in the tag genre, Tropical Tag. I invested a lot of time into it and TT had some periods of sunshine. But, I finally realized the limitations of the genre and furthermore the limitations of my audience (BNET). I didn't give up right away, but in hindsight it would have been wiser to have ditched it for Element TD earlier. Once I did drop it though, I never looked back. Element TD worked out well to say the least. So the jist of it is don't get fooled by sunk cost. If you think you can make a better game, then drop this one now.
I dont know your map, so all I can say is that:
If you know something that will give your map more re playability than do it.
@Karawasa: Go I think TT was way better map, than element TD.
@Hookah604:
Well I just think my RPG is definitely a keeper; however my tag map was one I had made privately in war3 and me and friends played it for years... but I guess you guys are right.
OneTwo, your map is fun, but it gets boring once you explored the whole map. You can bet the audience would increase if you release new modes with different and bigger terrains. Also, a skilled prisoner cannot be beaten.
95% of the maps on battle.net gets boring after some dozens of games. I’m tired of all of them. I don’t know how some maps are stucked in the top, though. Maybe some people don’t get bored or the maps are being boosted.
That there is no real reason to complain. I'm going to take a shitty example to start with:
Who really plays again and again the campaign maps? I'm pretty sure right now, more than 90% of SC2 players already finished the campaign once or twice, so there is almost nobody playing these maps anymore. Do Blizzard mappers complain about it? No. (well, it's a bit more complicated in their case because they own both the campaign maps and melee maps, so there are always players on their maps anyway... but you get the idea: maps are often "wasted" even if they are really well made and their authors spent a lot of time on them)
Anyway, my point is you shouldn't be that concerned about the "loss of fame" of your map... Maps (and video games in general) are entertainment. It's not supposed to last, and only a few people have that chance. Others simply cheat (by boosting their map rank on BNet, for example). If your map had some success, it already did its job and you should be proud of it as it is. No matter how long it took you to create it, most people won't even care about that because their only concern is having fun quickly (which is why people mostly play maps from the first page)... If you do maps for fame, you'll only get deceived. I spent 60+ hours on my Ikari Warriors map, I got only 10 downloads in 2 weeks. I don't care that much, I love my map and I enjoy playing it again and again anyway... It's pretty easy to have friends on BNet and play with them if you need more players too... :)
Just look closely at video games in 2010... Which one really had enough success to last a whole year? Almost none, maybe around 10-15 games at most. And yet, there were hundreds of them made. Same goes for custom maps, you can't do a map and expect it to work just because it was well done AND enjoyable to play/replay. It happens, more often than you think, and it's not entirely due to the BNet ranking system and the cheaters boosting their maps... ;)
Indeed, this is a shitty example. The reason being that campaign maps were designed to be a play it once or twice type of thing. They are far more intertwined with a story and do not focus at all on creating replayable gameplay. Maps are only "wasted" if the authors don't know what they are doing. Is the popularity system good? No. But, it is possible to have success with a good map and a good plan (and no that doesn't just mean boosting).
No offense, but you come across as a person scorned (which you are). Good entertainment can last a long time, great entertainment can last ages. So actually, it is supposed to last. One thing I like about mapping over standard retail, is that you get a chance to evolve your game instead of a release once and watch type of thing. You're right that no one cares about how long you spent on your map, and nor should they. The user has but one goal, have fun. If you spent 100+ hours and they don't have fun, tough shit.
The retail industry is a whole different beast than mapping. Also, companies these days are trying to release cookie cutter games in an attempt to minimize risk. There are not a lot of long lasting games because it is more profitable to name it 2011 (or 2 etc.) and release it again.
Your final point is perhaps the worst to end on. First of all, it has to be enjoyable to your audience. You may think it is the most fun game, but if BNET disagrees then no dice for you. Now, on one account you're right. Well made, fun, and playable again are not enough to get to page one. You also have to have a plan in place. How to introduce it, how to promote it, and how to maintain it. Things that come to mind in no particular order are; map website, youtube videos, map forums, SC2Mapster (+others) posts, boosting (initially), and updates.
The reason why lots of popular maps remain on the top list is because they are on the TOP list. That is sadly the very nature of the current distribution method, which is to encourage people to play the current-popular maps. That's simply a fact., unless you include some of the popular AoS genres which have huge PR behind them.
So, once things reset, those maps that get played initially will become the dominant popular maps. In essence, your map isn't bad, it's the nature of the distribution method Blizzard implemented AKA Pop-Sys's fault.
No offense taken. You pretty much have the same point-of-view as mine, just with your own words. I know good entertainment exists, but you can't deny it's very rare (compared to the number of games released each year, only a few have noticeable success and only rare ones will last more than a year). My final point being: Making maps (and/or games) for fame is an utopia. It only happens in very rare cases... If you have a moderate success you can already be proud of your work, especially when you're an amateur map maker.
I worked 3 months on Totally Spies 3 on DS, the game did not sell much, the levels were awful (...sorry, my bad! :D ), and yet I'm kind of proud of it. OneTwo should be proud of what he did with his map, the success of a map is not revealing of its quality (especially on BNet because of the popularity system). 90% of the BNet popularity system is all about advertising your map. Seems pretty much like the same process as advertising games on TV: only big companies could afford it but it doesn't mean their games are better anyway...
Big ones eat small ones, that's how it works. It doesn't mean you shouldn't put a lot of effort in making maps, it only means you should not expect your map to become famous. If it happens, good for you. If it doesn't, let's just say it's normal and you shouldn't make a big deal out of it. Expecting the better can only be deceiving... Trust me on that...
Game with long term motivation are always for player vs player, except some training map. Team survivor is fun, but the mapper made them so diffecult to prevent people win it. Because if someonw win that game, maybe he will never play again.
Me as player is tired about that. That is why, I always want to make a game that I can play 1000 time without get bored.
Zealnaga kind of took the wrong message out of my post.. karawasa's response nailed it. My problem has nothing to do with the fame; it has to do with how I should spend my time. I personally don't want to spend 60 hours on a map that no one plays but my friends. I'd much rather build something big that can have a following and a community. This also comes from the fact that most of my maps need > 5 players to be fun. But it's hard to tell if I put more time into it that it would become popular again. Although, if my map sits on page 3 comfortably, I want to keep that small group satisfied (just as blizzard would keep updating diablo II for years).
I think I will move on though... I am happy and proud to have made it up there for a while like you mention zealnaga... but it's kind of annoying when you do all that and people support you and then 2 weeks later its gone and everyone disappears...
As for redmarine, that may be true but at this point I've gone through several maps that have been up there and fell off too. I don't really understand how some other maps stay on so long (aside from maybe SOTIS). I'm kind of like rodrigo.. a few games and that's enough for me.. so maybe we can conclude boosting is going on??
heres what i think, it all has to do with replay value, as a guy mentioned earlier in this thread, the single player campaigns are a perfect example of why something can be very well made, yet it can also decline and die off. I played the campaign once, and i dont want to play it again for atleast another year. Does that mean the campaign was bad? no, it just means it has no replay value.
Now your map is a tag kind of map right onetwo? ,it depends how much replay value there is in , Ppl will get bored after playing it for 30+ times. Like you said you cant play the same thing either :P.
Now when you watch maps like SOTIS, or marine arena for e.g, they stay up there because every game is different, How different can a cops vrs robbers game be? . It all boils down to the replay value on whether your map stays up there , or slowly dies off . Again it has nothing to do with "if the map is good or bad".
I've been getting emails for 5 months from people asking when I'll be adding new features to Vexal Tower Defense. I just tell them "soon".
After a while, using the data editor becomes so tedious, especially for objects that aren't "special" (meaning no special data that couldn't easily be done in War3). The added complexity becomes a huge waste of time, even if you know how to use it inside and out.
That's why I call games an entertainment: It never lasts... That's probably the most depressing "side effect" when you work in this business, you know in advance that everything you do is going to be lost in 2, 5, maybe 10 years at best... Some nerdy guys might keep playing it when it becomes abandonware, but who really cares? That's how it is, you can't do much about it. It's even worse with custom maps because 98% of the published maps are done by complete amateurs, no one knows about them and no one will ever care. Who can tell the names of the guy(s) who made Star Battle and SOTIS? I'm pretty sure you'll have to check to answer this.
Even though it looks really depressing somehow, I wouldn't mind either about how much time you spend on making a map. My Ikari Warriors map is around 60 hours of work now, I assume it will need 30-40 more hours to add the second level... And I already know it won't become much more famous than it is now, for a few good reasons (which have nothing to do with the BNet popularity system itself by the way, even though it doesn't help). I don't care that much, because it helped me to understand lots of things about the editor, and I intend to make something really good out of my second project (which was not even supposed to be one, to begin with!). My third project is kind of stuck right now, but I assume finishing my second project will help... And so on!
My point being: Don't worry about spending hours and hours on a map that won't get far. As long as you get better at what you are doing, sooner or later your maps will catch the attention of players if all your maps are done with the same quality. That's pretty much how any entertainment works: music, art, television... They spend lots of money, time, and efforts and they're not sure it will work. That's why it's so exciting (and so depressing at the same time), the more fame you gain the better. But you can't win every time (unless named Michael Jackson... or Chuck Norris), and your success can stop anytime, very quickly.
Anyway, YES, boosting is the main problem here. I can only think of one solution about this: restricting the creation of games to 3 per hour, per user, per map. This way, you can't play more than 3 <name a map here> per hour as the host. Which also means you can't boost your map by constantly creating games... 3 might be a bit too restrictive, but you get the idea.
@ZealNaga: Go
That's why you put your name in the name of the map. People recognize me when I join any custom game, not just my own.
@ZealNaga:
Yeah.
Lol Vexal good plan... but yeah I have the same issue with data tbh. I could barely manage it in war3 when it was 1 unit... but now even with my experience/age/patience, making 40x(unit+actor+weapon+effect+weapon actors+etc+etc+etc) is killer. My TD still says "4th race coming soon" but that was months ago haha.
@OneTwoSC: Go
Mine says "2nd half of 2nd race coming soon, plus 3rd race".
I'm awaiting the new patch, which should make adding vertical effects much less of a pain with the new z-parameter. All of my towers with effects that utilize z coordinates were a huge pain to make.
The same with adding requirements without copy-and-paste. It took forever, especially if you messed up one; you have to start completely over.
And panels. All of my dialogs have buttons randomly placed in the around the box, since I can never work up the patience to set their size and translation so that anything lines up.
It's worse than making UI with java swing.
Well I find it's important to step back from time to time and try to view your map from a neutral point of view. Ask yourself, Is it easy to pick up and learn for new players, is there a depth of skill for experiences players, does it have re playability? etc. etc.
Many mappers get too heavily into their map and are unwilling or unable to see it flaws.
Some map genres are naturally harder to get a loyal audience. Typically ppl do tend to prefer competitive 2 team maps the most.
Hard to say really whether to move on or not. I am in the same situation. I released beta version of my TD map back in Nov and got pretty good reception. got some email and feedbacks. Then I took it off for some updates. Then I released it again in Dec. And nobody plays it anymore...
Thinking whether to move on to the new map or continue adding 2nd builder type... I have another map in mind as well...
I tried to put myself in neutral position. I think that TD genre is so 2000 and late. It's dead. Like racing genre. The trend has shifted, unless you can make a really really cool innovation on TD.
If you notice. none of the TD made it to the top. Even Endercraft can only do that much. Mercy TD can only reach that level.
The audience looks to have changed as well. Perhaps most SC1, WC3 player are old now and they no longer play SC2. The new generations doesn't embrace TD, RPG, Strategic/Tactical custom game. They love Tug of Wars and 1 Million Zergling, 1 Million Ultralisk.
Or perhaps those players who embrace TD, RPG, or Strategic/Tactical game are still enjoying Melee maps?
Hard to tell...
Even Blizzard's map that has lava going up every few mins is now gone.
And I am willing to bet. Blizzard's Map Aiur Chef will not succeed unless Blizzard features it.
Starjeweled will do well as it is tug of war essentially. Left 2 Die debatable. I think it won't do that well.
Blizzard All-Stars won't show up for a while looks like. But this one will stay on top.
You see my bet? Tug of War, DotA will last. Cute, out of the box map like Aiur Chef will die.
@Maknyuzz:
I find it amazing that TUG's and the other maps you listed from sc1 are so popular. As a war3 person I'm not too happy with them lol... but we're still early in the game :D