Hello, i just started map-editing, because i had a concrete idea. I looked around a bit, but i couldn't find any possibility to do it, that's why i'm asking here
the map-editor is mainly an xml-editor -> you cannot alter any "real" functions?
i wanted to play around with the attack command, the queue-commands-function and other stuff, but that is not possible or did i just overlook it? i had the impression it should be do-able, judging the mods i saw from other people - or did these people do it without the official editor?
my main idea was to build an options for bio-units to enter a bunker and queue another command behind hit, so that you can add bunkers (more-easily) as solid wall for anything but bio-units. (ok, it is possible allready, but you have to keep your "unload" button pressed, while having said bunker selected: you usually do not have the time in a game to press a single key for several seconds in a game :/)
would be awesome, if someone could clarify if such a thing is possible. and if it is: would be awesome to give me a clue on "how" ;p
so far ŦcO, Necaremus
btw: there went something wrong while registering (a looooooong time ago), there should be no number behind my name ._.
sry for spamming :) but i'm not a robot like these other bots creating spam-threads :/
maybe i can go a little bit more into detail here (allthou i doubt it is the right sub-forum)
some ideas i wanted to test out:
adding another attack-command, that automaticly stutter-steps towards attack-location/target (while(canmove&¬_atking){move.to(target)}
producing units directly into control-groups (with a pre-set xml, probably, maybe an overlay to alter it in-game)
"smartMacro" pretty much the same as with control-groups: a pre-set xml, where you can define your macro pre-game and alter it in-game, if necessary
map-overlay over the whole screen, with variable transparency directly coppled with a push-sensitive button (like the "gas-pedal" in a car)
- at XX%transparency or (another)button-hold: use map as "top-layer" for click-actions
and i saw that there is a "prioty" system already in the game (with all units on "20 prioty"), would like to "pre-set" for each unit (marines focus other enemys as marauders), with overlay for in-game changes on the fly
add hot-keys for my.overlay-commands
maybe a simple overlay, showing the production (like in observer mode, but smaller design)
the bunker thingy in post 1 (and see if i can add a similiar thing for new units out of production structures[not only the move command])
... and more
so far
ŦcO, Necaremus
/edit: gotta go, rly... have to edit this post if i'm back, because it doesn't use the regular line-break with "enter" :3
/edit2: mhm... did the edit and added a few points
later on i want to have a control group (maybe all units directly build into it) that has "custom"-commands:
for example a control group out of
4 Marines
2 SCVs
1 Widow Mine
1 Medivac
than i press my hotkey for the custom-command "build-outpost"(or however i wanna name it), which is only available while you have a control groups of said composition selected:
the hotkey fires a load-command to all units into exactly that medivac(i don't need the medivac or the units in my screen)
i get a chain of 3 Click-Commands:
burrow Widow Mine
build Bunker
build Missile Turret
(indicating every click-command with a hower of a semi-transperent "unit"[like the normal building placement]and a sound)
fire a check after every click, if all units are loaded=true, start moving (a parallel while loop would be great here)
the medivac flys to the position(s) and unloads
Widow Mine burrowes on position defined by click 1
SCV Builds Bunker on position defined by click 2
SCV Builds Missile Turret on position defined by click 3
(don't know at what point the 4 marines, yet... gonna decide it later^^)
add Bunker to Control Group
add Missile Turret to Control Group
@100%Bunker:
load Marines into Bunker
(maybe) load SCVs into Medivac
update Control-Group to "Finished Outpost" or something
for smooth gameplay i would need to alter these commands (automaticly) if the control group changes (because a unit dies... not all units build, yet... or whatever)
and... of course... that would be just one option out of a lot of "Custom Control Groups" i wanna be able to build :3
to be honest: i do not quite understand, mind to explain?
(i'm pretty newbie, if it comes to coding >_>)
_____
but i thought about "this" project, and i think i found a work-around:
i need to create an additional .exe:
this additional .exe mainly will be a "custom-map-creator", where you can pre-set a lot of triggers you want to have build-in in your map:
for examply, if you want your marines build into control group "1", you can achieve this with specific triggers. The .exe tool should give you an easy to understand and newbie friendly GUI (i know this not gonna come true :D), where you can create such triggers simply by "doing it":
in the "customize"-mode, where you can pre-set all your custom-stuff, you click on "record", you build a marine and add him to your control-group "3", now your console recorded something like this:
now you hover over the console; if you hover over the UNIT_ID and right-click it, you get a pop-up menu with "convert UNIT_ID to UNIT_TYPE". you click it and now your trigger always adds marines to your controlgroup "3" and looks like this:
i have no idea how the syntax is gonna look like, yet :)
once you're done with all the stuff you wanna pre-set, you can *push* your changes to your hard-drive. the tool will save all those triggers, you wanna have.(most likely separated by "GENERAL" and "MAP_ID_SPECIFIC"... in the map_data you can add stuff like "Wall[Position1(x,y),Position2(x,y),Position3(x,y)]" or something)
now lets come to the interesting part: the "play" option:
let's assume this tool got 2+ players, both created their custom-stuff for the same map and they wanna play against each other:
the tool merges both files, pushes the "final" map to the servers, and inits for both players a connect to this new map.
(here is most likely some "esthetic" work to do, because the blizzard search and order algorithm for custom maps sucks... most likely all of this searching gets pushed to my .exe)
//to-do: add .delay(x) if "MAP_ID_SPECIFIC" == null;
this work-around is "a bit" ugly and is going to spam the map-pool, but i see no other "legal" way to do this.
of course this tool would be open-source, for when someone wants to add a function i didn't think of (and i have a lot of functions in mind).
/edit: oh, and i prolly need to add 2+layers in front of the client for customizable GUI
honestly everything you want can be done in the editor and you dont need your custom exe at all. you might want to learn about triggering first, head over some tutorial and read what do trigger actions do and stuff.
I agree with Alevice. I'm pretty sure that everything you've described can be accomplished within the editor—I don't think you'd even need Galaxy script. I'm not entirely sure about your record mode thing.
but the idea of this tool would be to have your custom-pre-sets for every possible melee-map (+ possible map specifics) on your own hard-drive (because everyone prefers a little bit of different settings... has his own strategy in mind... and so on)
and i want this "creating my own custom settings" to be very user friendly and intuitive. Maybe this can be done in the galaxy editor, i'm not sure, but my interpretation of the galaxy-editor thus far: pain-in-the-arse-editor.
I think after i've got a .lib that can parse to the galaxy editor (which is in itself a little bit of pain-in-the-arse work), the workflow should be much smoother, much less clickerino (or maybe i just don't know how to use the galaxy editor... but srsly... pain in the arse!)
the whole thing would be useless, if it's like "one map for myself", because my PC can't run SC2 :/
/edit: "can't run SC2" => FPS drops below 5 FPS if supply exceeds 100 in a melee game.
atm i'm testing around with "easyCreep" to understand the galaxy editor a little bit better (for parsing purpose):
you have a control-group with active creep-tumors
you have an overlay with a count of active creep-tumors, including time-stamp for "loading" creep-tumors
inactive creep tumors are getting thrown out of the control group and new ones are getting added
with your rapidfire-creepspread-hotkey you just need to hover over the mini-map, where you want your creep.
if someone is unsure: the tool is _NOT_ intended for ranked play. (at least, not for the classic ranking matches)
i want to create a tool for the more "casual" player. I want to simplify a lot of the controls and give the user more option for customization, than the usual melee mode does. Balancing issues caused by simplified and easier to use units/controls are /for now/ pushed back. Could start looking at those after release (if it ever comes to a release)
can you put an overview of what he objective is im not understanding. I lost you after a couple of post and don't know if you still need help with anything. You're post is scattered brained.
You desperatedly need to understand how the engine works. Basically everything you said could be set in an extension mod that can be played on custom games, and have personal settings stored on a bank file per user. Around 90% of the things you have suggested could be a trigger library on an extension mod and have it work painlessly for your end user.
If you think having a custom exe/lib whatever is less a pain in the arse than doing a regular mod, then you dont really understand how things work.
And if you're looking for something you can use in regular vs. play, then what you're really talking about is building a maphack, which A. is a terrible idea from an ethical standpoint, B. will get you banned from b.net, and C. may not even be possible post-3.0.
can you put an overview of what he objective is im not understanding. I lost you after a couple of post and don't know if you still need help with anything. You're post is scattered brained.
i'm sorry, you are prolly right. i'm a very chaotic person, that usually /dumbs his thoughts down.
i gonna try to summarize this loose thought-collection in a new thread today or tomorrow :)
(what would be the right sub-forum?)
You desperatedly need to understand how the engine works. Basically everything you said could be set in an extension mod that can be played on custom games, and have personal settings stored on a bank file per user. Around 90% of the things you have suggested could be a trigger library on an extension mod and have it work painlessly for your end user.
If you think having a custom exe/lib whatever is less a pain in the arse than doing a regular mod, then you dont really understand how things work.
thank you very much :) (i'm serious here!)
like i mentioned before: i'm pretty newbie and up until now, there was no-one reaching out with a helping hand. non-the-less i tryed to "work around" the problems i was facing -> obviously i may take a big "detour" this way ;p
do you maybe have a link to such a mod? so that i can look inside it and learn a bit by that. (i actually read a few tuts for the galaxy editor - but for example could nowhere find an example or option how i can save something to the hard-drive...)
and to explain my "galaxy editor is a pain-in-the-arse": so much clickerino - can i somehow enable something like:
while(hoverorinFocus){element.doc.show();}
it's really, really, really annoying to always click 2-3 times, just to find out what "this" element does >_> i don't know such things by heart, yet :/
(and there are a lot of other things i don't rly "like" about the galaxy editor)
about the asymmetric use: all created/open custom games/maps should be marked with something like "easySC.MapName.UserName" (or something), so if you wanna try your luck without those additional makros, you are welcome to :) (like said, it's _NOT_ intended for ranked play. I'm a PvPler by heart, i want a balanced game-situation)
maybe, if this tool gets a lot of users and the end-user prefers my mod/add-on/whatever over blizzards options, i would start thinking about adding a ranking system for easySC vs easySC matches. (yeah, i'm the "think-big" type of guy)
but before that: the tool has to work... and if it works: there has to be done a lot of re-balancing to make it competitive.
/edit: atm doing some screens to explain the while snippet, give me a sec for that :)
i want the doc entry to be shown, when i mouse-hover the element or have it in focus while being idle.
right now i have to click, click, click and click... to "find out" what the element does
... i rly don't like the clickerino of the galaxy editor. how can i alter the triggers as "plain-text" or with syntax highlighting?
___
*flame mode on* yeah blizzard, nice idea to show the doc.entry twice in that window. very gud idea... TWICE there... while making it super hard to access anywhere else... you are the king of design and organizing your code... not *flame mode off* sry for flame >_>
hi mapsters :3
i posted this thread in the TL forum:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/505089-limitation-of-the-map-editor
- and got linked here
:)
btw: there went something wrong while registering (a looooooong time ago), there should be no number behind my name ._.
sry for spamming
:)
but i'm not a robot like these other bots creating spam-threads :/maybe i can go a little bit more into detail here (allthou i doubt it is the right sub-forum)
some ideas i wanted to test out:
so far ŦcO, Necaremus
/edit: gotta go, rly... have to edit this post if i'm back, because it doesn't use the regular line-break with "enter" :3
/edit2: mhm... did the edit and added a few points
/edit3: 1st time using "WikiCreole"
^^"
btw, that would be just my "starting"-list :D
later on i want to have a control group (maybe all units directly build into it) that has "custom"-commands:
for example a control group out of
than i press my hotkey for the custom-command "build-outpost"(or however i wanna name it), which is only available while you have a control groups of said composition selected:
^^)
for smooth gameplay i would need to alter these commands (automaticly) if the control group changes (because a unit dies... not all units build, yet... or whatever)
and... of course... that would be just one option out of a lot of "Custom Control Groups" i wanna be able to build :3
uhm... to get back to my question: what tool do i need for this kinda stuff? (i don't think the map-editor gonna work?)
or... where can i find the code i need to edit? :D
here they are.
but you can only play around with it in offline mode
:(
make an extension mod with them.
Still alive and kicking, just busy.
My guide to the trigger editor (still a work in progress)
to be honest: i do not quite understand, mind to explain?
(i'm pretty newbie, if it comes to coding >_>)
_____
but i thought about "this" project, and i think i found a work-around:
i need to create an additional .exe:
this additional .exe mainly will be a "custom-map-creator", where you can pre-set a lot of triggers you want to have build-in in your map: for examply, if you want your marines build into control group "1", you can achieve this with specific triggers. The .exe tool should give you an easy to understand and newbie friendly GUI (i know this not gonna come true :D), where you can create such triggers simply by "doing it":
in the "customize"-mode, where you can pre-set all your custom-stuff, you click on "record", you build a marine and add him to your control-group "3", now your console recorded something like this:
now you hover over the console; if you hover over the UNIT_ID and right-click it, you get a pop-up menu with "convert UNIT_ID to UNIT_TYPE". you click it and now your trigger always adds marines to your controlgroup "3" and looks like this:
i have no idea how the syntax is gonna look like, yet :)
once you're done with all the stuff you wanna pre-set, you can *push* your changes to your hard-drive. the tool will save all those triggers, you wanna have.(most likely separated by "GENERAL" and "MAP_ID_SPECIFIC"... in the map_data you can add stuff like "Wall[Position1(x,y),Position2(x,y),Position3(x,y)]" or something)
now lets come to the interesting part: the "play" option: let's assume this tool got 2+ players, both created their custom-stuff for the same map and they wanna play against each other: the tool merges both files, pushes the "final" map to the servers, and inits for both players a connect to this new map. (here is most likely some "esthetic" work to do, because the blizzard search and order algorithm for custom maps sucks... most likely all of this searching gets pushed to my .exe)
//to-do: add .delay(x) if "MAP_ID_SPECIFIC" == null;
this work-around is "a bit" ugly and is going to spam the map-pool, but i see no other "legal" way to do this.
of course this tool would be open-source, for when someone wants to add a function i didn't think of (and i have a lot of functions in mind).
/edit: oh, and i prolly need to add 2+layers in front of the client for customizable GUI
and even with this work-around... there is still much stuff missing I would like to alter
:(
why can't i play around with the server-sided code?PROJECT STATE:
- pre alpha
LOOKING FOR:
- someone who could help me parse all the stuff to the galaxy editor, because i do not have much experience with it. (none)
honestly everything you want can be done in the editor and you dont need your custom exe at all. you might want to learn about triggering first, head over some tutorial and read what do trigger actions do and stuff.
Go play Antioch Chronicles Remastered!
Also, coming soon, Antioch Episode 3: Thoughts in Chaos!
Dont like mapster's ugly white? Try Mapster's Classic Skin!
I agree with Alevice. I'm pretty sure that everything you've described can be accomplished within the editor—I don't think you'd even need Galaxy script. I'm not entirely sure about your record mode thing.
@Alevice: Go
that's the idea of the work-around
:)
but the idea of this tool would be to have your custom-pre-sets for every possible melee-map (+ possible map specifics) on your own hard-drive (because everyone prefers a little bit of different settings... has his own strategy in mind... and so on)
and i want this "creating my own custom settings" to be very user friendly and intuitive. Maybe this can be done in the galaxy editor, i'm not sure, but my interpretation of the galaxy-editor thus far: pain-in-the-arse-editor.
I think after i've got a .lib that can parse to the galaxy editor (which is in itself a little bit of pain-in-the-arse work), the workflow should be much smoother, much less clickerino (or maybe i just don't know how to use the galaxy editor... but srsly... pain in the arse!)
the whole thing would be useless, if it's like "one map for myself", because my PC can't run SC2
:/
/edit: "can't run SC2" => FPS drops below 5 FPS if supply exceeds 100 in a melee game.
atm i'm testing around with "easyCreep" to understand the galaxy editor a little bit better (for parsing purpose):
seems to work fine thus far :)
if someone is unsure: the tool is _NOT_ intended for ranked play. (at least, not for the classic ranking matches)
i want to create a tool for the more "casual" player. I want to simplify a lot of the controls and give the user more option for customization, than the usual melee mode does. Balancing issues caused by simplified and easier to use units/controls are /for now/ pushed back. Could start looking at those after release (if it ever comes to a release)
can you put an overview of what he objective is im not understanding. I lost you after a couple of post and don't know if you still need help with anything. You're post is scattered brained.
You desperatedly need to understand how the engine works. Basically everything you said could be set in an extension mod that can be played on custom games, and have personal settings stored on a bank file per user. Around 90% of the things you have suggested could be a trigger library on an extension mod and have it work painlessly for your end user.
If you think having a custom exe/lib whatever is less a pain in the arse than doing a regular mod, then you dont really understand how things work.
Go play Antioch Chronicles Remastered!
Also, coming soon, Antioch Episode 3: Thoughts in Chaos!
Dont like mapster's ugly white? Try Mapster's Classic Skin!
And if you're looking for something you can use in regular vs. play, then what you're really talking about is building a maphack, which A. is a terrible idea from an ethical standpoint, B. will get you banned from b.net, and C. may not even be possible post-3.0.
i'm sorry, you are prolly right. i'm a very chaotic person, that usually /dumbs his thoughts down.
i gonna try to summarize this loose thought-collection in a new thread today or tomorrow :) (what would be the right sub-forum?)
thank you very much :) (i'm serious here!)
like i mentioned before: i'm pretty newbie and up until now, there was no-one reaching out with a helping hand. non-the-less i tryed to "work around" the problems i was facing -> obviously i may take a big "detour" this way ;p
do you maybe have a link to such a mod? so that i can look inside it and learn a bit by that. (i actually read a few tuts for the galaxy editor - but for example could nowhere find an example or option how i can save something to the hard-drive...)
and to explain my "galaxy editor is a pain-in-the-arse": so much clickerino - can i somehow enable something like:
it's really, really, really annoying to always click 2-3 times, just to find out what "this" element does >_> i don't know such things by heart, yet :/
(and there are a lot of other things i don't rly "like" about the galaxy editor)
___
@LucidIguana: Go ? what are you talking about ?
why is it unethical to add a game-mode/option to the game? I can't grasp your concern.
Consider the consequences of asymmetric use. If I have this tool and my opponent does not, I have a significant advantage because of the macros.
What is your while snippet supposed to do, exactly?
@LucidIguana: Go
about the asymmetric use: all created/open custom games/maps should be marked with something like "easySC.MapName.UserName" (or something), so if you wanna try your luck without those additional makros, you are welcome to :) (like said, it's _NOT_ intended for ranked play. I'm a PvPler by heart, i want a balanced game-situation)
maybe, if this tool gets a lot of users and the end-user prefers my mod/add-on/whatever over blizzards options, i would start thinking about adding a ranking system for easySC vs easySC matches. (yeah, i'm the "think-big" type of guy)
but before that: the tool has to work... and if it works: there has to be done a lot of re-balancing to make it competitive.
/edit: atm doing some screens to explain the while snippet, give me a sec for that
:)
element marked with blue, doc entry marked with red
/edit: bigger image / imgur
i want the doc entry to be shown, when i mouse-hover the element or have it in focus while being idle.
right now i have to click, click, click and click... to "find out" what the element does
... i rly don't like the clickerino of the galaxy editor. how can i alter the triggers as "plain-text" or with syntax highlighting?
___
*flame mode on*
yeah blizzard, nice idea to show the doc.entry twice in that window. very gud idea... TWICE there... while making it super hard to access anywhere else... you are the king of design and organizing your code... not
*flame mode off*
sry for flame >_>