For a while I've been working alone on a project of my own with yet no title or name, but referred to as a Custom Protoss Campaign featuring 20-30 missions, which should take you through a well-written and exciting storyline.
At the moment I have about 8% of the story completed and 1 mission ready for play (With some bugs and some visual things, that needs to be fixed).
The goal with this thread is to see how you guys react to this idea and if anyone would be interested in testing / helping / giving good ideas.
I will play a campaign if it got at least half quality of WOL campaign (terrain & mission design). But honestly, since I feel bored now, I'll play any campaign map (purely for testing purposes).
But be aware that I am a fan of original SC atmosphere and It would be my pleasure if WOL never happened (lore-wise). So I hope that your protoss don't resemble some mythical druid race.
This said, if you need to test, I'll be happy to help, I won't even mind Build&Destroy missions (I missed them so much in WOL).
Hm..mythical druid race. This is the impression new zeratul gave to me. Here goes: speaking in riddles, speaking about prophecies, fighting for all good and shiny things (well, ok they didn't do it in campaign as far as I remember). Now that I think of it, it's mostly dialog related. In SC2 their voicing/lines just seems off. Most of them feel too pacified, unfocused.
And, what kind of Protoss point of view-story would you prefer? :)
I'd love alternative storyline where Conclave survived/was reassembled, just because I loved those guys.
Btw, I'm not a writer, so I don't even dare to tell what I would want to see. But If I was making a campaign it would probably be about Protoss Prelate governing an outpost colony on some outer world. From there there are alot of other elements to expand into.
For example terran mercenaries testing new technology/Hybrids. Or fighting off renegade survived cerebrate/Hostile(for reasons unknown) protoss. Or exploring hidden places which would hold plot information/devices. Lots of shattered pieces which would eventually form exciting new picture.
It's extremely time consuming to think through it all, and even more so to make everything feel right. That's why I'm not making any campaigns.
I was wondering now that you mentioned the quality of the mission design and terrain.
Do you have any ideas to what some or one mission could be like? (Something unique as the Day'n'Night mission in the WoL campaign).
No, not really. But it doesn't have to be that unique. You know, it's mostly about presentation anyway. I think there was some sort of document on the web about different RTS mission designs. You can always have your standard "Build&Destroy", "Escort Target", "Gather XXX resources", "Survive XXX time", "Find and rescue", "Retreat" missions.
I wouldn't call zombie mission very unique, it's just "Survive" expanded. The drawback of survive is that you just sit in one place and mass tanks/static defenses. So Blizz spiced things up by forcing you to go into offensive. If you want ideas/inspiration then just go play other RTS/Games. And for terrain check campaign, melee maps and some of terrain on forums.
My best advice, as a fellow campaign designer is to start small. You're talking about doing a 20-30 mission campaign all by yourself, which is a titanically brutal workload. I'd say drop it down to 5 or so as your target and focus in on trying to make as compelling a story as you can and work your missions structure into it. This allows you to focus more on polishing and tuning each mission.
I'm by no means an expert on this subject, but I also tend to write out my story and dialogue beforehand, in an effort to have it drive the mission design instead of having the mission design drive the story.
I have a better idea. Perhaps he can pause his current campaign project and come back to it later. A good starter campaign has 3-5 missions. Then he can make it as perfect as he can/wants to. Then I'd suggest trying to make an additional expansion campaign to it that with...say...6-10 missions long. After those 2 are done you can try the full campaign out. However, I don't see the problem in 20-30 missions. All it is, is making the same difficulty of work, just longer. Yea, I've made 2-3 campaigns so far in sc2. 1 was like 2-3 missions or so while another was 20 missions or something rediculous. Niether were ever finished because I have a problem getting bored easy, especially if I'm doing something the same way over and over. But, my point is, it's not that hard, you just have to take it slowly. You also have to be skilled in terrain and VERY skilled in triggers to be any good at it. You don't have to know data so much, because it's already provided for you, but it's really easy if you're like that...like me...only don't get bored like I do. O_O I say keep going with this.
Story, however, is a different matter. Tyeara is right about that one. If you continue as you are doing now, I'd suggest knowing how yout story will play out and then making initial dialogue and getting feedback on the dialogue itself. Sometimes the dialogue is half the game, so prepare for it.
I'm in a bit of a rush, so I can't explain the millions of ideas in my head, but if you need unit names/ideas/suggestions/testers I'm fit for all of the above. I'm usually only available during the evening though. I'm in NA so if you need an NA publisher too I can publish maybe half of the campaign.
I was wondering... About the dialogues... What would any usual Templar or Protoss say and how would they express themselves in different situations? Are there any books or intel or anything about this, considering that dialogue's a huge part of the quality of the campaign.
Check this out. It's got a good, large amount of information about protoss culture, technology, and maybe (not sure) the way they speak. It says in there the actual name of their language...I think it was Khalani?
@Wacclian321: If you played SC1 and/or BW you already know what a good dialogue is. I agree with Ducky, WoL made protoss sounds like old fool druids. Maybe Selendis is the only true protoss but she just says hello and leaves. Zeratul was the kind of character running behind the scenes and fixing things we didnt even knew about. During SC1 He was the first to kill a Cerebrate when we didnt even knew the Dark Templar or that Cerebrates could be killed. Now he speaks like an old supersticious man that fears Kerrigan.
Zeratul was badass in sc1 because he had his whole race to live for. Then he's forced to kill whats her name which at the time seemed like the only female protoss, dark or not. He's probably all depressed he killed her and at the time seemed like doomed his race to a sausage fest. So he's probably still depressed, by the time the protoss campaign Legacy of the Void or whatever comes out he'll be badass again, at least he should be. If he's not that shows Blizzard has been working on Warcraft too much and can't separate the two or their writers from warcraft accidentally got in the same room for starcraft story writing.
The one you speak of is Matriarch Raszagal.
Hmm, I've received so much feedback and I guess the Campaign's main structure (story-oriented) should be that badass mystique warrior race.
Another thing I might want to add in the story is; Explaining a lot about the Protoss culture, how their psi-link works and their technology (Statis Cells, Teleportation, Psionic Matrix' etc etc.)
Did you play the StarCraft: Original and the Brood War campaigns?
Kerrigan forces Zeratul to kill his Matriarch (Raszagal) and he doesn't take it very nice after that.
But I don't know anything else about Arudine, so you may be right : )
I played the games, but in sc2 that's apparently just a saying. Idk, maybe it means like "En Taro" except more sad. Just saying since I remember that just now that I remember her name. Fenix was still my fav cahracter of all time. Please make a Praetor hero. :)
Also, there's a PM bug, so...you haven't responded 5 minutes after I responded to your PM, so just make sure to check it every hour or so. It might say 10 pms or 0, but it's not always right. Just checking... ;)
Since this is a custom campaign topic I'll post here one idea I had, but its not related to the one being discussed. I think we should have a Heaven's Devils campaign, so we could use characters like Harnak, Zander and Kydd. I believe most of the missions would be in "Heaven's Devils style" as Tychus said, meaning the player would control a few heroes (their platoon) and possibly a few more units.
Some of the missions could be like they happen in the book, but we could create a few more. Hope you guys like the idea!
I wonder if you could make something for nibbits contest. A single-payer SC2 based scenario. I think it would be a great way to practice scenario-making skills (and I wouldn't feel as lonely knowing that someone else from mapster is going to submit his work).
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Hello SC2Mapster Community (:
For a while I've been working alone on a project of my own with yet no title or name, but referred to as a Custom Protoss Campaign featuring 20-30 missions, which should take you through a well-written and exciting storyline.
At the moment I have about 8% of the story completed and 1 mission ready for play (With some bugs and some visual things, that needs to be fixed).
The goal with this thread is to see how you guys react to this idea and if anyone would be interested in testing / helping / giving good ideas.
Hi.
I will play a campaign if it got at least half quality of WOL campaign (terrain & mission design). But honestly, since I feel bored now, I'll play any campaign map (purely for testing purposes).
But be aware that I am a fan of original SC atmosphere and It would be my pleasure if WOL never happened (lore-wise). So I hope that your protoss don't resemble some mythical druid race.
This said, if you need to test, I'll be happy to help, I won't even mind Build&Destroy missions (I missed them so much in WOL).
@DuckyTheDuck: Go
Define mythical druid race, please.
And, what kind of Protoss point of view-story would you prefer? :)
Hm..mythical druid race. This is the impression new zeratul gave to me. Here goes: speaking in riddles, speaking about prophecies, fighting for all good and shiny things (well, ok they didn't do it in campaign as far as I remember). Now that I think of it, it's mostly dialog related. In SC2 their voicing/lines just seems off. Most of them feel too pacified, unfocused.
I'd love alternative storyline where Conclave survived/was reassembled, just because I loved those guys.
Btw, I'm not a writer, so I don't even dare to tell what I would want to see. But If I was making a campaign it would probably be about Protoss Prelate governing an outpost colony on some outer world. From there there are alot of other elements to expand into.
For example terran mercenaries testing new technology/Hybrids. Or fighting off renegade survived cerebrate/Hostile(for reasons unknown) protoss. Or exploring hidden places which would hold plot information/devices. Lots of shattered pieces which would eventually form exciting new picture.
It's extremely time consuming to think through it all, and even more so to make everything feel right. That's why I'm not making any campaigns.
I was wondering now that you mentioned the quality of the mission design and terrain. Do you have any ideas to what some or one mission could be like? (Something unique as the Day'n'Night mission in the WoL campaign).
No, not really. But it doesn't have to be that unique. You know, it's mostly about presentation anyway. I think there was some sort of document on the web about different RTS mission designs.
You can always have your standard "Build&Destroy", "Escort Target", "Gather XXX resources", "Survive XXX time", "Find and rescue", "Retreat" missions.
I wouldn't call zombie mission very unique, it's just "Survive" expanded. The drawback of survive is that you just sit in one place and mass tanks/static defenses. So Blizz spiced things up by forcing you to go into offensive. If you want ideas/inspiration then just go play other RTS/Games. And for terrain check campaign, melee maps and some of terrain on forums.
My best advice, as a fellow campaign designer is to start small. You're talking about doing a 20-30 mission campaign all by yourself, which is a titanically brutal workload. I'd say drop it down to 5 or so as your target and focus in on trying to make as compelling a story as you can and work your missions structure into it. This allows you to focus more on polishing and tuning each mission.
I'm by no means an expert on this subject, but I also tend to write out my story and dialogue beforehand, in an effort to have it drive the mission design instead of having the mission design drive the story.
Just some thoughts.
@Tyneara: Go
I have a better idea. Perhaps he can pause his current campaign project and come back to it later. A good starter campaign has 3-5 missions. Then he can make it as perfect as he can/wants to. Then I'd suggest trying to make an additional expansion campaign to it that with...say...6-10 missions long. After those 2 are done you can try the full campaign out. However, I don't see the problem in 20-30 missions. All it is, is making the same difficulty of work, just longer. Yea, I've made 2-3 campaigns so far in sc2. 1 was like 2-3 missions or so while another was 20 missions or something rediculous. Niether were ever finished because I have a problem getting bored easy, especially if I'm doing something the same way over and over. But, my point is, it's not that hard, you just have to take it slowly. You also have to be skilled in terrain and VERY skilled in triggers to be any good at it. You don't have to know data so much, because it's already provided for you, but it's really easy if you're like that...like me...only don't get bored like I do. O_O I say keep going with this.
Story, however, is a different matter. Tyeara is right about that one. If you continue as you are doing now, I'd suggest knowing how yout story will play out and then making initial dialogue and getting feedback on the dialogue itself. Sometimes the dialogue is half the game, so prepare for it.
@Wacclian321: Go
I'm in a bit of a rush, so I can't explain the millions of ideas in my head, but if you need unit names/ideas/suggestions/testers I'm fit for all of the above. I'm usually only available during the evening though. I'm in NA so if you need an NA publisher too I can publish maybe half of the campaign.
@yukaboy: Go
I'll PM you later (:
I was wondering... About the dialogues... What would any usual Templar or Protoss say and how would they express themselves in different situations? Are there any books or intel or anything about this, considering that dialogue's a huge part of the quality of the campaign.
Check this out. It's got a good, large amount of information about protoss culture, technology, and maybe (not sure) the way they speak. It says in there the actual name of their language...I think it was Khalani?
@Wacclian321: If you played SC1 and/or BW you already know what a good dialogue is. I agree with Ducky, WoL made protoss sounds like old fool druids. Maybe Selendis is the only true protoss but she just says hello and leaves. Zeratul was the kind of character running behind the scenes and fixing things we didnt even knew about. During SC1 He was the first to kill a Cerebrate when we didnt even knew the Dark Templar or that Cerebrates could be killed. Now he speaks like an old supersticious man that fears Kerrigan.
Zeratul was badass in sc1 because he had his whole race to live for. Then he's forced to kill whats her name which at the time seemed like the only female protoss, dark or not. He's probably all depressed he killed her and at the time seemed like doomed his race to a sausage fest. So he's probably still depressed, by the time the protoss campaign Legacy of the Void or whatever comes out he'll be badass again, at least he should be. If he's not that shows Blizzard has been working on Warcraft too much and can't separate the two or their writers from warcraft accidentally got in the same room for starcraft story writing.
@Keyeszx: Go
The one you speak of is Matriarch Raszagal. Hmm, I've received so much feedback and I guess the Campaign's main structure (story-oriented) should be that badass mystique warrior race. Another thing I might want to add in the story is; Explaining a lot about the Protoss culture, how their psi-link works and their technology (Statis Cells, Teleportation, Psionic Matrix' etc etc.)
@Wacclian321: Go
En...Arudine (I think)...Raszagal... He says this as one of his movement quotes.
@yukaboy: Go
Did you play the StarCraft: Original and the Brood War campaigns? Kerrigan forces Zeratul to kill his Matriarch (Raszagal) and he doesn't take it very nice after that.
But I don't know anything else about Arudine, so you may be right : )
@Wacclian321: Go
I played the games, but in sc2 that's apparently just a saying. Idk, maybe it means like "En Taro" except more sad. Just saying since I remember that just now that I remember her name. Fenix was still my fav cahracter of all time. Please make a Praetor hero. :)
Also, there's a PM bug, so...you haven't responded 5 minutes after I responded to your PM, so just make sure to check it every hour or so. It might say 10 pms or 0, but it's not always right. Just checking... ;)
Since this is a custom campaign topic I'll post here one idea I had, but its not related to the one being discussed. I think we should have a Heaven's Devils campaign, so we could use characters like Harnak, Zander and Kydd. I believe most of the missions would be in "Heaven's Devils style" as Tychus said, meaning the player would control a few heroes (their platoon) and possibly a few more units.
Some of the missions could be like they happen in the book, but we could create a few more. Hope you guys like the idea!
I wonder if you could make something for nibbits contest. A single-payer SC2 based scenario. I think it would be a great way to practice scenario-making skills (and I wouldn't feel as lonely knowing that someone else from mapster is going to submit his work).