I am a fanatic level designer (but I want to be game programmer :/) and I love the tools given to us by Blizzard, Frictional Games, Assembles Studio,etc and love creating maps. I recently wanted to get into the gaming industry to program these games and make these maps for a living. However, I heard lots of stories, good and bad about the industries, on how you are mistreated and left alone, you are a nobody and blah blah. I just want to know what you guys think about the stories.
I've heard similar stories and IMO it scares me away. I'd rather just make games as a hobby than do it for a living. Plus, being a minor in a game company, you don't really get much of a say on design decisions. Despite the fact you may feel a bad decision was made, there's not a thing you can do about it. Whereas if you just do it as a hobby or work in a small development team like here on mapster, at least you will have all or some degree of input. I personally feel its not as exciting if you don't have the power to give input into the development process.
I am in the exact same situation, but all of the stories keep me away. I think I will stick to sofware development until I have enough knowledge/experience to either start a company myself, or join a small one. I believe you will have more influence in a small company than in a big one.
The industry is Currently The strongest It has ever been for gaming, Its the movies thats failing due to Old business models from the 20s. lol
BUT there is one thing that I have heard
The only real way to get in the gaming industry is learn how to use an engine (UDK would be the best start), and Make your own game, then someone would recruit you, It is suggested that you get up a small team to help make this game.
I really think some awesome 2d games could do well and be interesting (compared to the amount of work and assets you would need for a 3d game).
I actually wonder why gamecompannies dont make more of 2d games.
Well I suppose moneywise I would focus on mobile phone games.
If I someday manage to learn enough coding I probly would try to make a 2d card game. (I would use my own pathetic art to impress people)
Well this was completely off topic. So Im kind of dreaming of making game of my own someday.
I'll give this a huge on-topic response at a later date, but for now; why don't you describe your experiences as a level designer? What do you do? What is your work process? Where does it start and end and who do you report to? Those are things I'm curious about. Also, to tie your situation into the bigger topic: how are your experiences as a level designer in regards to the industry?
I was reading about UDK at their website and found
this link. It's in some weird language though, so a translator such as google translate will be necessary.
I hit the translate, and it didnt seem to have much on it, Mostly the site is about Computers in general. They are talking about processors, Ram, Video cards, while there is a programming forum, it seems to be one of the lower forums.
Such a sweeping statement as 'the Game Industry' is never going to get a definite 'good' or 'bad' attributed to it.
If it is what you love doing, then you do it for that. If you want to be in this industry for money, then you become a developer/publisher. As for good and/or bad, it's the same with any 'job'. I could be a waiter in Restaurant A and have the time of my life, or I could be a waiter in Restaurant B and lose the will to live.
In my personal opinion the best work environment would be provided by either Ubisoft Montreal or Bethesda Softworks in Maryland. I have this opinion thanks to friends I know who personally have worked in-house, and from a video by Todd Howard showing what the Bethesda HQ runs like. Obviously, I am no where near being able to apply at either of these places, so in the meantime I have to get freelance work for 'indy' game companies and solo developers.
I heard lots of stories, good and bad about the industries, on how you are mistreated and left alone, you are a nobody and blah blah. I just want to know what you guys think about the stories.
Short answer, they're true. Very short answer, bad idea. Now I'll answer to a few quotes from this thread to get into details. On a side note, you'll get more job opportunities if you're a developer/programmer rather than a designer (sound, level, game design... doesn't matter! design is overcrowded).
I've heard similar stories and IMO it scares me away. I'd rather just make games as a hobby than do it for a living. Plus, being a minor in a game company, you don't really get much of a say on design decisions.
This is partially true and false. Doing games as a hobby is actually harder than being in a video games company, because you have to manage ALL aspects of a game by yourself, and IMO you can't be pro enough to be both a programmer and a designer/artist. "Being a minor in a game company" does not mean your opinion doesn't count in the development process. I only had 3 jobs, and in each of these I was responsible for the whole design of levels, if not of entire cities, HD models, etc... It actually depends on how many people there is in your team. The less people there is, the more work you'll have to do on your own. And that includes design decisions, even if the Game Design Document (we call it "bible" as it covers every single aspect of a game) is not supposed to be changed. It might sounds weird right after what I just said, but I actually recommend doing level/game design as a hobby. Just because you don't have to worry about deadlines, press conferences, development studio being a pain in the ass, managing interviews, etc...
The only real way to get in the gaming industry is learn how to use an engine (UDK would be the best start), and Make your own game, then someone would recruit you, It is suggested that you get up a small team to help make this game.
I'm not sure what to answer here... I actually think you're partially wrong, but I was hired a few times just because I mastered the Unreal Engine even before studying game/level design. So I guess you're right, but you don't have to make your own game or an entire mod to be hired. They like to see you're capable of managing various aspects of development all by yourself, but then they will make sure during the interview that you're also able to work in a team, very fast and efficiently, with deadlines, and possibly no control over design/programming decisions (especially in a big team, 10+ members).
I really think some awesome 2d games could do well and be interesting (compared to the amount of work and assets you would need for a 3d game). I actually wonder why gamecompannies dont make more of 2d games.
It's not off-topic at all. It's actually a very interesting point. You answered it yourself though, 2D games are still done nowadays, but companies would rather develop them for mobile phones and/or social networks (because it costs less, and casual gamers love these games). The Flash games industry is actually huge, and most of theses companies are indies. There were also excellent games done in 2D in the past few years (Braid comes to mind), but there is not enough demand for big companies to be interested in this. Big companies will only make games if they can make enough profit with it (huge teams, 200+ members, means a lot of cash lost during development), which also explains why you see sequels of sequels of sequels everywhere nowadays. Big companies don't take risks, indie developers do. If you're in the video games industry for a living, you'll need to join a huge team. If you want to take the risk of developing new concepts, making 2D games, get yourself known, then go for indie teams.
If you find one, throw me a link. I'd like to get started with phone games aswell.
I don't have a link, but I think I remember most mobile phone games are done in Java. Look for a Java SDK and you'll probably find what you need. And tutorials as well, though you shouldn't expect much from these.
I'll give this a huge on-topic response at a later date, but for now; why don't you describe your experiences as a level designer? What do you do? What is your work process? Where does it start and end and who do you report to? Those are things I'm curious about. Also, to tie your situation into the bigger topic: how are your experiences as a level designer in regards to the industry?
You have nooooo idea how much I WANT to answer this question even though it's not addressed to me. But I actually did it in a few other threads already (more or less), so I'll just suggest something slightly off-topic instead: Why don't we make a sticky thread/FAQ about the video games industry? After all, there has been 3 or 4 threads about this matter lately, so I assume a lot of people are interested to know more about it, if not willing to join a video games company directly. That would be better to gather all our feedback/experience about this in a single thread rather than creating threads weekly, right?
In my personal opinion the best work environment would be provided by either Ubisoft Montreal
I met a game designer from Ubisoft Montreal who says otherwise... So I guess you're right, it all depends on what you're aiming for. Any job can be good or bad, though from my experience I'd say the video game industry is rather bad. It's very treacherous, at least... Too many people wants to "join the fun" but they don't even know what it means to work in this industry, they have to understand it's a very demanding job. Starting in an indie team is probably your best shot when you start, you shouldn't even dare to aim for big companies if you have less than 3 years of experience + at least 2 famous games you've worked on. If you look closely in the various job offers from big companies (Ubisoft, Eidos, Blizzard, THQ,...) you'll only see offers for seniors. Seniors have 5 years of experience at least. It's not a good place to start, and it's not a good job if your definition of a good game is "innovation and fun to play".
Yeah Definatly, I wish Curse Would launch a similar site (SC2mapster) for the UDK
I can't provide a link because I don't have any right now, but I know for sure the UDK is well documented. There is probably a community somewhere discussing the UDK with basic tutorials. Don't expect to find tutorials for everything though, because a large part of a game development is actually to push boundaries further and further to get the best result possible. There is no tutorial for that, the limit is your knowledge of programming rules and your sensibility to design/creativity.
Why don't we make a sticky thread/FAQ about the video games industry? After all, there has been 3 or 4 threads about this matter lately, so I assume a lot of people are interested to know more about it, if not willing to join a video games company directly. That would be better to gather all our feedback/experience about this in a single thread rather than creating threads weekly, right?
That's a brilliant idea! I've also noticed myself that many people around here are confused/worried about the game industry and how to approach it. I'd love to have a guide here on mapster, that explains how to take your SC2 development to the next level.
Well I dont think this thread deserves to be stickied. I wonder if we could make somekind of study group to keep us motivated...I have tried learning stuff myself, but its so daaaamn boring to start from lvl1 (I have taken basic java course). Probly extremely hard to make it. I would be nice if someone talented would post some interesting beginner challenges and tutorials how to make them (that could work, but rather impossible).
There are some good videos on youtube from java beginners, but they are quite teadious to watch even though everything is explained well. I still think it would become more interesting after you learn some of the basic things like creating simple GUI or a worm game.
The easiest way into the industry is through QA, just don't be surprised when you end up staying there for 5-6 years before moving up and out because everyone else had the same idea.
That's a brilliant idea! I've also noticed myself that many people around here are confused/worried about the game industry and how to approach it. I'd love to have a guide here on mapster, that explains how to take your SC2 development to the next level.
The cynical answer to this is to stop mapping, and move on to real development environments. Mapping is pretty fun though.
I am a fanatic level designer (but I want to be game programmer :/) and I love the tools given to us by Blizzard, Frictional Games, Assembles Studio,etc and love creating maps. I recently wanted to get into the gaming industry to program these games and make these maps for a living. However, I heard lots of stories, good and bad about the industries, on how you are mistreated and left alone, you are a nobody and blah blah. I just want to know what you guys think about the stories.
I've heard similar stories and IMO it scares me away. I'd rather just make games as a hobby than do it for a living. Plus, being a minor in a game company, you don't really get much of a say on design decisions. Despite the fact you may feel a bad decision was made, there's not a thing you can do about it. Whereas if you just do it as a hobby or work in a small development team like here on mapster, at least you will have all or some degree of input. I personally feel its not as exciting if you don't have the power to give input into the development process.
I am in the exact same situation, but all of the stories keep me away. I think I will stick to sofware development until I have enough knowledge/experience to either start a company myself, or join a small one. I believe you will have more influence in a small company than in a big one.
The industry is Currently The strongest It has ever been for gaming, Its the movies thats failing due to Old business models from the 20s. lol
BUT there is one thing that I have heard
The only real way to get in the gaming industry is learn how to use an engine (UDK would be the best start), and Make your own game, then someone would recruit you, It is suggested that you get up a small team to help make this game.
I think making a game of on own would be great.
I really think some awesome 2d games could do well and be interesting (compared to the amount of work and assets you would need for a 3d game). I actually wonder why gamecompannies dont make more of 2d games.
Well I suppose moneywise I would focus on mobile phone games.
If I someday manage to learn enough coding I probly would try to make a 2d card game. (I would use my own pathetic art to impress people)
Well this was completely off topic. So Im kind of dreaming of making game of my own someday.
@zenx1: Go
That would PROBABLY be the best way to become an Established game maker in the Industry.
I too plan on making one eventually. But I cant seem to find a community Similar to Mapster for it to help me learn.
@Taintedwisp: Go
If you find one, throw me a link. I'd like to get started with phone games aswell.
I'll give this a huge on-topic response at a later date, but for now; why don't you describe your experiences as a level designer? What do you do? What is your work process? Where does it start and end and who do you report to? Those are things I'm curious about. Also, to tie your situation into the bigger topic: how are your experiences as a level designer in regards to the industry?
@ScorpSCII: Go
Yeah Definatly, I wish Curse Would launch a similar site (SC2mapster) for the UDK
@Taintedwisp: Go
I was reading about UDK at their website and found this link. It's in some weird language though, so a translator such as google translate will be necessary.
@ScorpSCII: Go
I hit the translate, and it didnt seem to have much on it, Mostly the site is about Computers in general. They are talking about processors, Ram, Video cards, while there is a programming forum, it seems to be one of the lower forums.
@ScorpSCII: Go
Site you mentioned is in Czech. Hope it helps
@lolzguy: Go
Such a sweeping statement as 'the Game Industry' is never going to get a definite 'good' or 'bad' attributed to it.
If it is what you love doing, then you do it for that. If you want to be in this industry for money, then you become a developer/publisher. As for good and/or bad, it's the same with any 'job'. I could be a waiter in Restaurant A and have the time of my life, or I could be a waiter in Restaurant B and lose the will to live.
In my personal opinion the best work environment would be provided by either Ubisoft Montreal or Bethesda Softworks in Maryland. I have this opinion thanks to friends I know who personally have worked in-house, and from a video by Todd Howard showing what the Bethesda HQ runs like. Obviously, I am no where near being able to apply at either of these places, so in the meantime I have to get freelance work for 'indy' game companies and solo developers.
Short answer, they're true. Very short answer, bad idea. Now I'll answer to a few quotes from this thread to get into details. On a side note, you'll get more job opportunities if you're a developer/programmer rather than a designer (sound, level, game design... doesn't matter! design is overcrowded).
This is partially true and false. Doing games as a hobby is actually harder than being in a video games company, because you have to manage ALL aspects of a game by yourself, and IMO you can't be pro enough to be both a programmer and a designer/artist. "Being a minor in a game company" does not mean your opinion doesn't count in the development process. I only had 3 jobs, and in each of these I was responsible for the whole design of levels, if not of entire cities, HD models, etc... It actually depends on how many people there is in your team. The less people there is, the more work you'll have to do on your own. And that includes design decisions, even if the Game Design Document (we call it "bible" as it covers every single aspect of a game) is not supposed to be changed. It might sounds weird right after what I just said, but I actually recommend doing level/game design as a hobby. Just because you don't have to worry about deadlines, press conferences, development studio being a pain in the ass, managing interviews, etc...
Quoted for truth.
I'm not sure what to answer here... I actually think you're partially wrong, but I was hired a few times just because I mastered the Unreal Engine even before studying game/level design. So I guess you're right, but you don't have to make your own game or an entire mod to be hired. They like to see you're capable of managing various aspects of development all by yourself, but then they will make sure during the interview that you're also able to work in a team, very fast and efficiently, with deadlines, and possibly no control over design/programming decisions (especially in a big team, 10+ members).
It's not off-topic at all. It's actually a very interesting point. You answered it yourself though, 2D games are still done nowadays, but companies would rather develop them for mobile phones and/or social networks (because it costs less, and casual gamers love these games). The Flash games industry is actually huge, and most of theses companies are indies. There were also excellent games done in 2D in the past few years (Braid comes to mind), but there is not enough demand for big companies to be interested in this. Big companies will only make games if they can make enough profit with it (huge teams, 200+ members, means a lot of cash lost during development), which also explains why you see sequels of sequels of sequels everywhere nowadays. Big companies don't take risks, indie developers do. If you're in the video games industry for a living, you'll need to join a huge team. If you want to take the risk of developing new concepts, making 2D games, get yourself known, then go for indie teams.
I don't have a link, but I think I remember most mobile phone games are done in Java. Look for a Java SDK and you'll probably find what you need. And tutorials as well, though you shouldn't expect much from these.
You have nooooo idea how much I WANT to answer this question even though it's not addressed to me. But I actually did it in a few other threads already (more or less), so I'll just suggest something slightly off-topic instead: Why don't we make a sticky thread/FAQ about the video games industry? After all, there has been 3 or 4 threads about this matter lately, so I assume a lot of people are interested to know more about it, if not willing to join a video games company directly. That would be better to gather all our feedback/experience about this in a single thread rather than creating threads weekly, right?
I met a game designer from Ubisoft Montreal who says otherwise... So I guess you're right, it all depends on what you're aiming for. Any job can be good or bad, though from my experience I'd say the video game industry is rather bad. It's very treacherous, at least... Too many people wants to "join the fun" but they don't even know what it means to work in this industry, they have to understand it's a very demanding job. Starting in an indie team is probably your best shot when you start, you shouldn't even dare to aim for big companies if you have less than 3 years of experience + at least 2 famous games you've worked on. If you look closely in the various job offers from big companies (Ubisoft, Eidos, Blizzard, THQ,...) you'll only see offers for seniors. Seniors have 5 years of experience at least. It's not a good place to start, and it's not a good job if your definition of a good game is "innovation and fun to play".
I can't provide a link because I don't have any right now, but I know for sure the UDK is well documented. There is probably a community somewhere discussing the UDK with basic tutorials. Don't expect to find tutorials for everything though, because a large part of a game development is actually to push boundaries further and further to get the best result possible. There is no tutorial for that, the limit is your knowledge of programming rules and your sensibility to design/creativity.
That's a brilliant idea! I've also noticed myself that many people around here are confused/worried about the game industry and how to approach it. I'd love to have a guide here on mapster, that explains how to take your SC2 development to the next level.
Well I dont think this thread deserves to be stickied. I wonder if we could make somekind of study group to keep us motivated...I have tried learning stuff myself, but its so daaaamn boring to start from lvl1 (I have taken basic java course). Probly extremely hard to make it. I would be nice if someone talented would post some interesting beginner challenges and tutorials how to make them (that could work, but rather impossible).
There are some good videos on youtube from java beginners, but they are quite teadious to watch even though everything is explained well. I still think it would become more interesting after you learn some of the basic things like creating simple GUI or a worm game.
just make diablo 2 on visual basic 6 like i did the port it into vb.net
The easiest way into the industry is through QA, just don't be surprised when you end up staying there for 5-6 years before moving up and out because everyone else had the same idea.
The cynical answer to this is to stop mapping, and move on to real development environments. Mapping is pretty fun though.
@lolzguy: Go
bad all people care about now is graphics... gameplay is WAY MORE IMPORTANT. graphics should be on the bottom of the list.