Also, in regards to your comments on my analogy - that matters jack all? The fact is that the streaker is ruining the match. It doesn't matter if the streaker is a random person, the map editor or john doe - as long as he's gone. In this particular case, it would probably be more of a confused naked footballer than a streaker, I guess, but that doesn't really matter - I just don't want to see naked dudes in my football match.
Yes it does matter to jack, and to us, since we're talking about the propriety of mapmakers being censored (justifiably or not), not on random dudes getting jollies from being immature. So, I guess it was your analogy that mattered "jack all" ;)
Sure, but then you said they probably wouldn't. Which, as you admitted, we really don't know at all.
Well sure, I could go on about how the lack of empirical evidence along with personal experiences point towards Blizzard usually being on the tolerant side of the 'strictness spectrum', but I didn't deem it necessary. It really is a whole different discussion in itself - I'd happily go into it, but for the cause of just pointing out Rod's reasoning error, it's too much work.
Yes it does matter to jack, and to us, since we're talking about the propriety of mapmakers being censored (justifiably or not), not on random dudes getting jollies from being immature. So, I guess it was your analogy that mattered "jack all" ;)
You're still missing the point.
Problem with Starcraft: you go into a custom game, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'the majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
Problem with the football match in my analogy: you go into a football match, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'they majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
It is completely irrelevant what the source of said dislikeable thing is for its removal to be a good thing, in both cases.
Erm, something the players dislike pops up? So what if people dislike Jesus (oh wait it's already disliked!), Buddha, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. What if Africa offends someone? What is we add in a model of Muhammad and the Muslims emails Blizzard? Muslims who doesn't even play the game (no seriously this kind of thing happens)! You're analogy is fairly accurate, but the problem here is the past and the present. Football was never filled with streakers. WC3 and SC:BW was! And I enjoyed some of those games. If you don't enjoy them then why bother joining? Also this is the internet. This is where 4chan resides (though not in SC2)!
That and I'm a strong supporter of free speach. I hate how Blizzard is making shit rules for shitty 12 years olds. Hell I think all 12 year olds who can't handle the things on the internet shouldn't be on the internet in the first place. CYBER-BULLING DOESN'T EXIST. Does my school love to bitch about that.
/rant
That's exactly the attitude I'm trying to prevent, tbh. I'm all for free speech and all that bla, but that doesnt change the fact that when I'm joining a custom game I don't want to be spammed with words like cocksucker and whoremongerer. I know the whole concept of 'offensive' usually is a joke, but it makes a lot of sense here. Technically I could go walk around naked because I can go with the opinion that "if someone takes offense, that's his problem, not mine", but that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't want to get ugly naked dudes shoved in my face when I leave my house. Decency for the sake of decency is retarded, decency purely for the sake of not needlessly bugging a bunch of people with your indecency is something I approve of.
You guys are trying to decide where the appropriate line is for something to be offensive: if dyke is overboard or not IE.
However it's prety obvious that NWW was completely over the line with quite a few of its words...
and to Rod, it's highly likely that Blizzard is not a single person. What probably happened was several players flagged your map, and alerted Blizzard. A Blizzard employee probably chose the earliest or latest flag for your map, and took a random offensive word in there, and pasted it into the e-mail you got. Blizzard has lazy employees; they probably don't care much for your map either. It's probably just a number number in their eyes. Try to imagine the attitude you would have at a medial job on the Blizzard employees handling all the annoying flags and e-mails.
I personally have no problems spamming whoremongerer and cocksucker but I can see where you are coming from. The main reason I'm against blizzard banning due to words or discriminatory ideas is due to past maps that are extremely fun but offensive at the same time. Maps like Mexican Border Crossing (or something, forgot original name), Escape to Gay Heaven, etc. Those fun and interesting maps would be instantly banned due to the name. Of course, map makers can just rename the maps and change the names in the map but I feel that would ruin the concept that made the game fun in the first place.
Considering whiremongere and cocksucker are being typed in [allies] chat and people don't really pay attention to char in NWW (too busy looking for words anyways), most likely it'll be like 'huh that's actually a word?' and type it, move on, etc.
Whatever the case I feel that Blizzard is going overboard. In the US, StarCraft II is rated T for Teens, and falls under:
Contains content that might be considered unsuitable for children under 12 years of age. Titles in this category may contain more intense violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, blood, simulated gambling, and/or use of strong language (which is uncensored). Some examples include WWE Smackdown vs. Raw, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, The Sims series, the Castlevania series, the Guitar Hero series,and the first four Ratchet and Clank games.
If things that refer to anatomy or religion can be considered offensive, its gonna be impossible to filter that list.
They have more resources, they should provide a list of approved words.
I find it funny how names from religeons are banned but they hav themself put Odin, Thor and Loki in the game, yes its and old religon but belive it or not some people still belive in that ( Not me though nor do I care that those references are in game, ITS AWSOME). People just needs to stop being offended by everything, end of discusion.
It probably didn't make any sense and has alot of typos but I'm just sharing my opinion. :)
You have to understand, it isn't about what is or isn't "offensive" it's about what will or will not get people to complain. Blizzard doesn't care what's in your map, what they care about is having to pay customer service people to deal with complaints about your map. It's more expedient and cost effective for them to just ban your map and get back to wallowing around in their room full of money.
Since your map is popular, more people play it and there are more chances for people to run into words that they find offensive. You're a victim of your own success in a way. If your map wasn't very popular it probably wold have never been a blip on Blizzards radar.
That being said, if you're going to use a dictionary, try the official Scrabble dictionary, no proper names and no offensive words. You can even get versions with words of specific lengths.
Sure, but then you said they probably wouldn't. Which, as you admitted, we really don't know at all.
Yes it does matter to jack, and to us, since we're talking about the propriety of mapmakers being censored (justifiably or not), not on random dudes getting jollies from being immature. So, I guess it was your analogy that mattered "jack all" ;)
Well sure, I could go on about how the lack of empirical evidence along with personal experiences point towards Blizzard usually being on the tolerant side of the 'strictness spectrum', but I didn't deem it necessary. It really is a whole different discussion in itself - I'd happily go into it, but for the cause of just pointing out Rod's reasoning error, it's too much work.
You're still missing the point.
Problem with Starcraft: you go into a custom game, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'the majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
Problem with the football match in my analogy: you go into a football match, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'they majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
It is completely irrelevant what the source of said dislikeable thing is for its removal to be a good thing, in both cases.
@Mozared: Go
I think it's pretty clear at this point that we're talking about different things
I was actually angry at Blizzard over having banned you because of the word "dyke".
But seeing that you had cocksucker and fuck in there?
Honestly, you can't use the excuse "I can't look over 30k words" at that point. I am no longer mad at Blizzard.
Although, the map is really fun at that. I hope to see it rise the popularity list again.
@Mozared: Go
Erm, something the players dislike pops up? So what if people dislike Jesus (oh wait it's already disliked!), Buddha, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. What if Africa offends someone? What is we add in a model of Muhammad and the Muslims emails Blizzard? Muslims who doesn't even play the game (no seriously this kind of thing happens)! You're analogy is fairly accurate, but the problem here is the past and the present. Football was never filled with streakers. WC3 and SC:BW was! And I enjoyed some of those games. If you don't enjoy them then why bother joining? Also this is the internet. This is where 4chan resides (though not in SC2)!
That and I'm a strong supporter of free speach. I hate how Blizzard is making shit rules for shitty 12 years olds. Hell I think all 12 year olds who can't handle the things on the internet shouldn't be on the internet in the first place. CYBER-BULLING DOESN'T EXIST. Does my school love to bitch about that. /rant
@Mooglefrooglian: Go
Well, I don't know if they saw those words before banning it. As I said, they sent me these words just after they spend 1 week analysing my map.
And why they just said "dyke" when they first banned it?
@dddarrenccc: Go
That's exactly the attitude I'm trying to prevent, tbh. I'm all for free speech and all that bla, but that doesnt change the fact that when I'm joining a custom game I don't want to be spammed with words like cocksucker and whoremongerer. I know the whole concept of 'offensive' usually is a joke, but it makes a lot of sense here. Technically I could go walk around naked because I can go with the opinion that "if someone takes offense, that's his problem, not mine", but that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't want to get ugly naked dudes shoved in my face when I leave my house. Decency for the sake of decency is retarded, decency purely for the sake of not needlessly bugging a bunch of people with your indecency is something I approve of.
You guys are trying to decide where the appropriate line is for something to be offensive: if dyke is overboard or not IE.
However it's prety obvious that NWW was completely over the line with quite a few of its words...
and to Rod, it's highly likely that Blizzard is not a single person. What probably happened was several players flagged your map, and alerted Blizzard. A Blizzard employee probably chose the earliest or latest flag for your map, and took a random offensive word in there, and pasted it into the e-mail you got. Blizzard has lazy employees; they probably don't care much for your map either. It's probably just a number number in their eyes. Try to imagine the attitude you would have at a medial job on the Blizzard employees handling all the annoying flags and e-mails.
@Mozared: Go
I personally have no problems spamming whoremongerer and cocksucker but I can see where you are coming from. The main reason I'm against blizzard banning due to words or discriminatory ideas is due to past maps that are extremely fun but offensive at the same time. Maps like Mexican Border Crossing (or something, forgot original name), Escape to Gay Heaven, etc. Those fun and interesting maps would be instantly banned due to the name. Of course, map makers can just rename the maps and change the names in the map but I feel that would ruin the concept that made the game fun in the first place.
Considering whiremongere and cocksucker are being typed in [allies] chat and people don't really pay attention to char in NWW (too busy looking for words anyways), most likely it'll be like 'huh that's actually a word?' and type it, move on, etc.
Whatever the case I feel that Blizzard is going overboard. In the US, StarCraft II is rated T for Teens, and falls under:
Contains content that might be considered unsuitable for children under 12 years of age. Titles in this category may contain more intense violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, blood, simulated gambling, and/or use of strong language (which is uncensored). Some examples include WWE Smackdown vs. Raw, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, The Sims series, the Castlevania series, the Guitar Hero series,and the first four Ratchet and Clank games.
@Keyeszx: Go
If things that refer to anatomy or religion can be considered offensive, its gonna be impossible to filter that list. They have more resources, they should provide a list of approved words.
Glad to see it back online. At least that's what it seems to be, I didn't notice the author. I only assume it's the same one.
"nig* and guy: "two words which by themselves can be harmless but which together form a verbal missile of hate"
by Randy Marsh
man this becomes a total new meaning in this map..
I find it funny how names from religeons are banned but they hav themself put Odin, Thor and Loki in the game, yes its and old religon but belive it or not some people still belive in that ( Not me though nor do I care that those references are in game, ITS AWSOME). People just needs to stop being offended by everything, end of discusion.
It probably didn't make any sense and has alot of typos but I'm just sharing my opinion. :)
You have to understand, it isn't about what is or isn't "offensive" it's about what will or will not get people to complain. Blizzard doesn't care what's in your map, what they care about is having to pay customer service people to deal with complaints about your map. It's more expedient and cost effective for them to just ban your map and get back to wallowing around in their room full of money.
Since your map is popular, more people play it and there are more chances for people to run into words that they find offensive. You're a victim of your own success in a way. If your map wasn't very popular it probably wold have never been a blip on Blizzards radar.
That being said, if you're going to use a dictionary, try the official Scrabble dictionary, no proper names and no offensive words. You can even get versions with words of specific lengths.
http://www.isc.ro/en/commands/lists.html