While it's reasonable for Blizzard to remove maps with "offensive" material, the thing that makes it so bad is that, where is the line drawn? What's "bad", I mean for fucks sake they remove maps for having the word "Jesus", honestly? Since when is the most prominant holy figure in the world an offensive word? I mean it's always a slippery slope with companies/governments having control. Giving them unnecessary control is NEVER good, and it -ALWAYS- leads to disaster. Blizzard micro-managing custom content is the same thing, it's unnecessary control. We managed for 12 fucking years to live with maps with the words "Dyke" or "Jesus", hell WC3 had maps that were devoted to porn and nothing else, and yet somehow we managed to survive. We don't need Big Brother Blizzard telling us what we can and can not see, or do.
What they SHOULD have done, is make the publishing system optional. If you wanted to publish your map so it was officially supported by Blizzard, and thus had the potential to get more views, go ahead. But you have to subscribe to their rules. Otherwise it works as normal, you host your map and other people download via peer to peer. So sick of companies and governments, and any large organization, micro-managing people's lives. As Vapor said, the game flat out says online interactions are not rated. We simply do not need Blizzard fucking micro-managing the content we make and use.
Check the list Rodrigo used for his map, he uploaded it in his other topic. His map wasn't just banned because of the word 'dyke'. There was stuff like cocksucker, whoremonger, petcock and hoecake in there too. You can't expect Blizz to *not* ban a map that requires you to actively type out words like that to beat it. I'm all for eliminating censorship, but stuff like that simply has no place in a game made for entertainment, regardless of how it's used.
Actually I find it quite entertaining that people were to type out whoremonger, retard, cocksucker.... the thought of seeing all those crazy words, makes me lol.
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Check the list Rodrigo used for his map, he uploaded it in his other topic. His map wasn't just banned because of the word 'dyke'. There was stuff like cocksucker, whoremonger, petcock and hoecake in there too. You can't expect Blizz to *not* ban a map that requires you to actively type out words like that to beat it. I'm all for eliminating censorship, but stuff like that simply has no place in a game made for entertainment, regardless of how it's used.
But that doesn't change the fact. The entire map could have been composed soley of swear-words, it doesn't change anything. It's not Blizzards place to tell us what we can and can not play. If people find it offensive to have to type such words, then here's a thought - DON'T PLAY THE MAP! I mean again, WC3 and SC didn't have blizzard meddling in their affairs, and we survived. Maps that were poorly constructed, or offensive were ignored. No one's forcing you to join such maps, it's entirely voluntary, so simply stay away from maps you don't like. Big Brother Blizzard micro-managing our content is the primary reason I refuse to buy the game.
I mean fuck, I'll admit it, I played a lot of those porn bounds. Dodge all the obstacles and get rewarded with a nice juicy pic of some sexy naked chick, was a guilty pleasure. And if nothing else it was amusing to see all the shit people came up with. Maps that were JUST porn, TD's shaped like swastikas, maps devoted to being offensive and crude. Sure it might not be tasteful, but it was fun and amusing, and above all else, we were free to do it. This may sound melodramatic, but freedom is important. Big organizations should only have enough power to keep things running, nothing else. Blizzard does not need to micro-manage our content, tell us what's appropriate and what isn't. It's not their place, and if they didn't FORCE us to use their fucking servers, they wouldn't be liable.
Dunno about the english version, but the Spanish one is full of insults. Raynor calls Mengsk "son of a bitch" like 10 times during the campaign, and most of the terran units swear stuff like "bitch" and "fuck" in their move/attack commands.
Check the list Rodrigo used for his map, he uploaded it in his other topic. His map wasn't just banned because of the word 'dyke'. There was stuff like cocksucker, whoremonger, petcock and hoecake in there too. You can't expect Blizz to *not* ban a map that requires you to actively type out words like that to beat it. I'm all for eliminating censorship, but stuff like that simply has no place in a game made for entertainment, regardless of how it's used.
It's a dictionary! The chances of you getting those words were really small! I myself never played the map with those words. If Blizzard could warn me something like "You have 24 hours to remove those words," I would have done it!
Rodrigo, would it be possible for you to add into your map this:
When a word is picked from the dictionary, you check it aginst all the bad words and if it IS a bad word, it gets re-picked. That would be a good backup plan, because dictionaries will always have stuff like that in them.
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My point still stands as well, though - I'm not saying we necissarily 'need Blizzard to meddle'. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't exactly 'out of bound' here. Like I said, I'm a real advocate for people being able to say whatever the hell they want, as its always the interpreter's "fault" if he "takes offense" - those are his feelings. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Starcraft 2 is an online game. People play it for entertainment. You shouldn't force yourself to utter your junk anyway. If I want to chill out and do some Starcraft, I do not need to be spammed with "cocksucker" and "whoremonger". If Blizzard's 'meddling' achieves this, then honestly, I don't mind it. As long as they don't go overboard - which they haven't in this case.
I know you didn't mean bad by this. Your idea of using a dictionary as a source was downright brilliant - it's the kind of extra stuff that makes maps excellent instead of good. I'm not blaming you for what happened in your map - I'm just saying Blizz wasn't really as out of line here as people are making it sound. In this case, neither you or Blizz did something bad - your good idea just backfired on you, that is all. Sure, Blizz could have handled it better than just instantly banning the map, which was a bit extreme, but overall, I can blame neither you nor Blizz for your actions.
I know you didn't mean bad by this. Your idea of using a dictionary as a
source was downright brilliant - it's the kind of extra stuff that makes
maps excellent instead of good. I'm not blaming you for what happened in
your map - I'm just saying Blizz wasn't really as out of line here as
people are making it sound. In this case, neither you or Blizz did
something bad - your good idea just backfired on you, that is all. Sure,
Blizz could have handled it better than just instantly banning the map,
which was a bit extreme, but overall, I can blame neither you nor Blizz
for your actions.
Ok, but remember that just 1 word from that list would be enough to ban my map. So, if I had just dyke or just jesus, my map would be banned anyway.
My point still stands as well, though - I'm not saying we necissarily 'need Blizzard to meddle'. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't exactly 'out of bound' here. Like I said, I'm a real advocate for people being able to say whatever the hell they want, as its always the interpreter's "fault" if he "takes offense" - those are his feelings. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Starcraft 2 is an online game. People play it for entertainment. You shouldn't force yourself to utter your junk anyway. If I want to chill out and do some Starcraft, I do not need to be spammed with "cocksucker" and "whoremonger". If Blizzard's 'meddling' achieves this, then honestly, I don't mind it. As long as they don't go overboard - which they haven't in this case. <</quote>>
That's the thing, though. No-body is forcing you to say anything. If you want to chill playing starcraft without having to spam obscenities, don't play the map. I mean jesus, people need to be accountable for themselves. It's not the map-makers place to ensure nobody gets offended. If it offends you, stay away from it.
Blizzard's actions would have been acceptable, if publishing was optional. If they went "Ok you can publish your map on our servers for more coverage and better download rates, but you have to abide by our rules" then that's fine, they'd be well within their rights to take the map down. But instead they -FORCE- us to publish on their servers, and then try to force these rules on us. That makes it wrong, just wrong. They're usurping our right to create and play what -WE- choose, and instead they're telling us what we can and can not play. This game is, at minimum (I forgot) rated T for Teen, and any teenager is perfectly capable of deciding what they take offense to.
Instead of taking a full dictionary and cleaning out words, you could just use a smaller dictionary that has already been screened for offensive words.
One option is a list of English words from the Bible. This will include many names, but dictionaries tend to contain many obscure scientific terms too.
Alternatively, use one of many pre-compiled lists of "dirty words" and write a script to remove them from your existing dictionary.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~biglou/resources/bad-words.txt is a list of 1,300 such words. All of the words Blizzard cited as being offensive are in this list. I would say that if you removed all of these words, and any words with these derivations (words beginning with the same letters as those in this list), you should be safe. If Blizzard still bans your map as a result of an offensive word not in this list, then I don't know what to say to them.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~biglou/resources/bad-words.txt is a list of 1,300 such words. All of the words Blizzard cited as being offensive are in this list. I would say that if you removed all of these words, and any words with these derivations (words beginning with the same letters as those in this list), you should be safe. If Blizzard still bans your map as a result of an offensive word not in this list, then I don't know what to say to them.
Yes, africa is clearly a bad word ;)
I understand Blizzard's problem with some of the words in NWW's dictionary, but "jesus"? Yeaaahh....
Ok, but remember that just 1 word from that list would be enough to ban my map. So, if I had just dyke or just jesus, my map would be banned anyway.
No, this is not true. At the very least, we don't know this. Judging from what I've seen from your list now, I'm pretty convinced that if you just had ONE semi-bad word in the map, Blizzard wouldn't haved banned it outright, or at the very least they would have been even more susceptible to your plea than they were now. This is what my whole point was in that thread about the legal rules that come with the editor; Blizzard isn't a completely draconian company - they generally use some measure of reason when banning maps/alledged obscenities.
This is kind of a moot point, tbh. Look at it like this - do you like football? Ever watched a fun an intensive match to suddenly be interrupted by a streaker running naked across the field? That's what situations like these are. Sure, I can tell you "WELL THEN DON'T WATCH FOOTBALL!", but that would really lead to you not ever being able to watch/participate in any kind of amusement for the fear of having it ruined. Once again - I'm not a soft person, but when I'm happily playing some custom games on Starcraft 2 I don't suddenly want to find myself in a map where people are just yelling stuff like Asshole, Cocksucker and Analingus to eachother. Yeah sure, I can just 'not play the map', but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather not have to cope with that shit in the first place.
Having only 1 "semi-bad" word in the map certainly would have lessened the likelihood Blizzard would ban it quickly, since less people would report it. However, once enough people did report it, you really can't say whether or not Blizzard would decide to ban it. Blizzard's inappropriate content policies certainly allow for it.
Also, the football analogy isn't very apt: a more accurate comparison would be if the football teams themselves (the content producers) put in some streakers, ostensibly "for your enjoyment". Some random blabbermouth being intentionally obscene in chat doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
No, this is not true. At the very least, we don't know this. Judging
from what I've seen from your list now, I'm pretty convinced that if you
just had ONE semi-bad word in the map, Blizzard wouldn't haved banned it
outright, or at the very least they would have been even more
susceptible to your plea than they were now. This is what my whole point
was in that thread about the legal rules that come with the editor;
Blizzard isn't a completely draconian company - they generally use some
measure of reason when banning maps/alledged obscenities.
Nope. This list was made by Blizzard 1 week after my map got banned. I believe that it was banned just because of the word "dyke." Then, they went through the map and found more bad words.
In the end, this is just further evidence that the publishing/popularity system is broke as shit. WE DON'T NEED YOU TELLING US WHAT WORDS WE CAN OR CAN NOT SEE, BLIZZARD!
Which is what I said. "At the very least, we can't know for certain". Also, in regards to your comments on my analogy - that matters jack all? The fact is that the streaker is ruining the match. It doesn't matter if the streaker is a random person, the map editor or john doe - as long as he's gone. In this particular case, it would probably be more of a confused naked footballer than a streaker, I guess, but that doesn't really matter - I just don't want to see naked dudes in my football match.
You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions. They specifically said initially that the map was band for words 'such as 'Dyke', naming that one as an example. You cannot possibly know whether Blizz would ban a map based on one edgy word - all you're doing now is speculating.
I think you need to come down to reality. This is a video game.
"Big brother" Blizzard is oppressing its map-making community by not allowing them to post whatever content they want without consequences? If you don't want to play games with vulgar obscenities, don't join them? This is about "freedom"?
You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions. They specifically said
initially that the map was band for words 'such as 'Dyke', naming that
one as an example. You cannot possibly know whether Blizz would ban a
map based on one edgy word - all you're doing now is speculating.
That's probably because someone reported the map saying that it had "bad words" and Blizzard just saw the word "dyke." They just said they would review the map 2 days after they ban it. Before that, they haven't opened the map.
While it's reasonable for Blizzard to remove maps with "offensive" material, the thing that makes it so bad is that, where is the line drawn? What's "bad", I mean for fucks sake they remove maps for having the word "Jesus", honestly? Since when is the most prominant holy figure in the world an offensive word? I mean it's always a slippery slope with companies/governments having control. Giving them unnecessary control is NEVER good, and it -ALWAYS- leads to disaster. Blizzard micro-managing custom content is the same thing, it's unnecessary control. We managed for 12 fucking years to live with maps with the words "Dyke" or "Jesus", hell WC3 had maps that were devoted to porn and nothing else, and yet somehow we managed to survive. We don't need Big Brother Blizzard telling us what we can and can not see, or do.
What they SHOULD have done, is make the publishing system optional. If you wanted to publish your map so it was officially supported by Blizzard, and thus had the potential to get more views, go ahead. But you have to subscribe to their rules. Otherwise it works as normal, you host your map and other people download via peer to peer. So sick of companies and governments, and any large organization, micro-managing people's lives. As Vapor said, the game flat out says online interactions are not rated. We simply do not need Blizzard fucking micro-managing the content we make and use.
@Colt556: Go
Check the list Rodrigo used for his map, he uploaded it in his other topic. His map wasn't just banned because of the word 'dyke'. There was stuff like cocksucker, whoremonger, petcock and hoecake in there too. You can't expect Blizz to *not* ban a map that requires you to actively type out words like that to beat it. I'm all for eliminating censorship, but stuff like that simply has no place in a game made for entertainment, regardless of how it's used.
@Mozared: Go
Actually I find it quite entertaining that people were to type out whoremonger, retard, cocksucker.... the thought of seeing all those crazy words, makes me lol.
But that doesn't change the fact. The entire map could have been composed soley of swear-words, it doesn't change anything. It's not Blizzards place to tell us what we can and can not play. If people find it offensive to have to type such words, then here's a thought - DON'T PLAY THE MAP! I mean again, WC3 and SC didn't have blizzard meddling in their affairs, and we survived. Maps that were poorly constructed, or offensive were ignored. No one's forcing you to join such maps, it's entirely voluntary, so simply stay away from maps you don't like. Big Brother Blizzard micro-managing our content is the primary reason I refuse to buy the game.
I mean fuck, I'll admit it, I played a lot of those porn bounds. Dodge all the obstacles and get rewarded with a nice juicy pic of some sexy naked chick, was a guilty pleasure. And if nothing else it was amusing to see all the shit people came up with. Maps that were JUST porn, TD's shaped like swastikas, maps devoted to being offensive and crude. Sure it might not be tasteful, but it was fun and amusing, and above all else, we were free to do it. This may sound melodramatic, but freedom is important. Big organizations should only have enough power to keep things running, nothing else. Blizzard does not need to micro-manage our content, tell us what's appropriate and what isn't. It's not their place, and if they didn't FORCE us to use their fucking servers, they wouldn't be liable.
Hypocrite by Blizzard.
Dunno about the english version, but the Spanish one is full of insults. Raynor calls Mengsk "son of a bitch" like 10 times during the campaign, and most of the terran units swear stuff like "bitch" and "fuck" in their move/attack commands.
Seriously, Blizzard, GTFO of custom maps.
It's a dictionary! The chances of you getting those words were really small! I myself never played the map with those words. If Blizzard could warn me something like "You have 24 hours to remove those words," I would have done it!
Rather than adding words from a dictionary, think smart and add words RELATED to SC2!
Planets, Characters, Units, Structures, Ingame "Slangs", etc.
There's enough content (if you take several hours or days) to fill up the new dictionary with.
Maybe play single player, or open up campaign maps, and search out any "interesting" words.
Or better yet, ASK the community to help! Need a SC2 word? Ask the mappers!
The 2000+ users viewing the forums isn't there to just chat you know...
Also...
Please! No more double digit math!!!!!!!
T_T
Rodrigo, would it be possible for you to add into your map this:
When a word is picked from the dictionary, you check it aginst all the bad words and if it IS a bad word, it gets re-picked. That would be a good backup plan, because dictionaries will always have stuff like that in them.
@Colt556: Go
My point still stands as well, though - I'm not saying we necissarily 'need Blizzard to meddle'. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't exactly 'out of bound' here. Like I said, I'm a real advocate for people being able to say whatever the hell they want, as its always the interpreter's "fault" if he "takes offense" - those are his feelings. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Starcraft 2 is an online game. People play it for entertainment. You shouldn't force yourself to utter your junk anyway. If I want to chill out and do some Starcraft, I do not need to be spammed with "cocksucker" and "whoremonger". If Blizzard's 'meddling' achieves this, then honestly, I don't mind it. As long as they don't go overboard - which they haven't in this case.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
I know you didn't mean bad by this. Your idea of using a dictionary as a source was downright brilliant - it's the kind of extra stuff that makes maps excellent instead of good. I'm not blaming you for what happened in your map - I'm just saying Blizz wasn't really as out of line here as people are making it sound. In this case, neither you or Blizz did something bad - your good idea just backfired on you, that is all. Sure, Blizz could have handled it better than just instantly banning the map, which was a bit extreme, but overall, I can blame neither you nor Blizz for your actions.
Ok, but remember that just 1 word from that list would be enough to ban my map. So, if I had just dyke or just jesus, my map would be banned anyway.
<<quote 206654>>
@Colt556: GoMy point still stands as well, though - I'm not saying we necissarily 'need Blizzard to meddle'. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't exactly 'out of bound' here. Like I said, I'm a real advocate for people being able to say whatever the hell they want, as its always the interpreter's "fault" if he "takes offense" - those are his feelings. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Starcraft 2 is an online game. People play it for entertainment. You shouldn't force yourself to utter your junk anyway. If I want to chill out and do some Starcraft, I do not need to be spammed with "cocksucker" and "whoremonger". If Blizzard's 'meddling' achieves this, then honestly, I don't mind it. As long as they don't go overboard - which they haven't in this case. <</quote>>
That's the thing, though. No-body is forcing you to say anything. If you want to chill playing starcraft without having to spam obscenities, don't play the map. I mean jesus, people need to be accountable for themselves. It's not the map-makers place to ensure nobody gets offended. If it offends you, stay away from it.
Blizzard's actions would have been acceptable, if publishing was optional. If they went "Ok you can publish your map on our servers for more coverage and better download rates, but you have to abide by our rules" then that's fine, they'd be well within their rights to take the map down. But instead they -FORCE- us to publish on their servers, and then try to force these rules on us. That makes it wrong, just wrong. They're usurping our right to create and play what -WE- choose, and instead they're telling us what we can and can not play. This game is, at minimum (I forgot) rated T for Teen, and any teenager is perfectly capable of deciding what they take offense to.
Instead of taking a full dictionary and cleaning out words, you could just use a smaller dictionary that has already been screened for offensive words.
One option is a list of English words from the Bible. This will include many names, but dictionaries tend to contain many obscure scientific terms too.
http://www.outpost9.com/files/wordlists/kjbible.zip
Alternatively, use one of many pre-compiled lists of "dirty words" and write a script to remove them from your existing dictionary.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~biglou/resources/bad-words.txt is a list of 1,300 such words. All of the words Blizzard cited as being offensive are in this list. I would say that if you removed all of these words, and any words with these derivations (words beginning with the same letters as those in this list), you should be safe. If Blizzard still bans your map as a result of an offensive word not in this list, then I don't know what to say to them.
Yes, africa is clearly a bad word ;)
I understand Blizzard's problem with some of the words in NWW's dictionary, but "jesus"? Yeaaahh....
No, this is not true. At the very least, we don't know this. Judging from what I've seen from your list now, I'm pretty convinced that if you just had ONE semi-bad word in the map, Blizzard wouldn't haved banned it outright, or at the very least they would have been even more susceptible to your plea than they were now. This is what my whole point was in that thread about the legal rules that come with the editor; Blizzard isn't a completely draconian company - they generally use some measure of reason when banning maps/alledged obscenities.
@Colt556: Go
This is kind of a moot point, tbh. Look at it like this - do you like football? Ever watched a fun an intensive match to suddenly be interrupted by a streaker running naked across the field? That's what situations like these are. Sure, I can tell you "WELL THEN DON'T WATCH FOOTBALL!", but that would really lead to you not ever being able to watch/participate in any kind of amusement for the fear of having it ruined. Once again - I'm not a soft person, but when I'm happily playing some custom games on Starcraft 2 I don't suddenly want to find myself in a map where people are just yelling stuff like Asshole, Cocksucker and Analingus to eachother. Yeah sure, I can just 'not play the map', but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather not have to cope with that shit in the first place.
@Mozared: Go
Having only 1 "semi-bad" word in the map certainly would have lessened the likelihood Blizzard would ban it quickly, since less people would report it. However, once enough people did report it, you really can't say whether or not Blizzard would decide to ban it. Blizzard's inappropriate content policies certainly allow for it.
Also, the football analogy isn't very apt: a more accurate comparison would be if the football teams themselves (the content producers) put in some streakers, ostensibly "for your enjoyment". Some random blabbermouth being intentionally obscene in chat doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
Nope. This list was made by Blizzard 1 week after my map got banned. I believe that it was banned just because of the word "dyke." Then, they went through the map and found more bad words.
In the end, this is just further evidence that the publishing/popularity system is broke as shit. WE DON'T NEED YOU TELLING US WHAT WORDS WE CAN OR CAN NOT SEE, BLIZZARD!
@ElJiggles: Go
Which is what I said. "At the very least, we can't know for certain". Also, in regards to your comments on my analogy - that matters jack all? The fact is that the streaker is ruining the match. It doesn't matter if the streaker is a random person, the map editor or john doe - as long as he's gone. In this particular case, it would probably be more of a confused naked footballer than a streaker, I guess, but that doesn't really matter - I just don't want to see naked dudes in my football match.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions. They specifically said initially that the map was band for words 'such as 'Dyke', naming that one as an example. You cannot possibly know whether Blizz would ban a map based on one edgy word - all you're doing now is speculating.
@Colt556: Go
I think you need to come down to reality. This is a video game.
"Big brother" Blizzard is oppressing its map-making community by not allowing them to post whatever content they want without consequences? If you don't want to play games with vulgar obscenities, don't join them? This is about "freedom"?
Quit bitching... honestly, I'm embarrassed for you. Dozens of people just died in Haiti due to diarrhea. If these are the things you complain about, I think you've got it pretty good.
That's probably because someone reported the map saying that it had "bad words" and Blizzard just saw the word "dyke." They just said they would review the map 2 days after they ban it. Before that, they haven't opened the map.