I think Xeno meant Jaxter's avatar. And to Xeno, Basic was talking about the screenshot of the fake silhouette. If I'm misunderstanding sarcasm, I apologize.
If they are going to start allowing hydraroaches I personally want to see some hydralisks riding ontop of ultralisks. Elephant archer ne1?
In all seriousness though, its a baneling not a hydra or roach. Roach has another set of legs and its teeth are completely different. While the hydra teeth look right, so do the baneling teeth and judging by the fact that it has the same number of legs as a baneling, I'm going to lock in my answer now.
That said, could be an evolution of zergling (as an alternative to banelings).
If Blizzard has been smart they will be making this unit to increase options for zerg in all matchups. This probably means that this unit will be effective vs roaches (to reduce roach in zvz), not that effective vs marines (to keep roach it zvt), and decently effective vs gateway units (to reduce roach slightly in zvp). Which kindof comes down to a ranged anti-armor unit. To keep it different from immortal and marauder (and prevent it being useless in air rush situations), it will probably be able to attack air.
Or it might be a bunker buster. Pray its a bunker buster. But then what does it do vs protoss?
I seriously doubt they will make it have attack/move modes. Too similar to siege tank (and they have stated that they want to make every unit unique). Although maybe a fast attack mode and slow armor mode would be ok (for crawling towards a bunker or tank and then opening up to attack). Would be really kiteable, so only really useful for attacking bases.
Since when did Zerg creatures started to look like Bugs..... They had their own unique look, but now they have a creature named Roach.... which is like and sounds like a bug........ c'mon i dont want a bug race... i want a fu ckin zerg race.
@IkotheSwarm: Go +1 for that. Also to make it worse we don't even know how Zerg got Roaches. SC1 manual explains how some of the original units were assimilated by the swarm, but during 4 since BW we'd expect that new units are:
A) new strains morphed from previous zerg creatures.
B) recently assimilated creatures from Koprulu sector.
For Roaches it has to be B, but what were roaches before assimilation? And how's that they're already so well suited for the swarm's purpose in 4 years that they moved Hydralisks to higher tier? lol
Not to mention Infestors, Corruptors and Brood Lords, these make no sense at all.
People above here need to check their facts. Look at the link Sheo came up with - there's plenty of stuff about Infestors, Corruptors and Brood Lords in there too. The latter two aren't directly explained, but it's not like Blizzard just went "sod-it-we'll-throw-in-some-random-new-units"; they did think about this stuff.
In regards to bugs; the Zerg race has always been partially based on bugs. Where d'you think the idea of creep & slime comes from? And heck, the word 'drone'? Or what about 'Larvae'?
Blizzard can justify anything, it's Blizzard. And Zergs might be based on bugs, but we're here talking about style and feel of race. To me zergs always felt more like Aliens, from movie, not like bugs from StarShip Troopers. Blizzard just didn't continue artistic vision of first SC and that annoys some people (me included :D )
well, i understand that they are bug related, although roaches don't look completely bugish, but i'm just suggesting it doesn't become a theme...
as for the history of the units, i don't give a damn. i never even played sc2 or brood war lol (that's not to say i'm not interested in the story, as i did read everything over in the manual, but i just don't care about unnecessary details)
@SheogorathSC: Go Ok, its the first time I see that, and I shouldn't have expected anything better based on how Blizzard cares for lore during recent years. Its way too easy to say: There was this creature nobody knew about that was just like roaches without the Zerg part. And do it for all new units. The original ones have been improved for a very long time. The Hydralisk as one example is said to be none like the slow, pacific Slothien. And now Kerrigan can create Roaches and Infestors in 4 years.
Well, ok, I'm done. I find lore very important, mainly because that's what I love (or used to love) about the SC universe. I just need to realize things are no longer what they used to be for this universe.
Sounds a tad whiny, imo. What would you want? From what you're saying the only options were to either A) give Zerg no new units or B) forcing SC2 players to somehow write and play through pages and evolutions of development to warrant a new unit. I think they handled it all very well. Of course it's going to come "out of nowhere" because that's where ALL lore comes from. Sc1 lore came "out of nowhere" as well. I see very little difference between SC1 and SC2 lore, tbh. Feel free to point it out and give us an alternative to the existing lore.
Second, I know sticking to lore would cause problems to gameplay in several levels, this is just one case. Games in general have problems like this, but most of them don't have good lore so why bother in their case? How many games you know actually sell books about their lore?
Third and last, if I were the one to point anyone better alternatives I'd be the one writing books. I don't need to be in that position to able to feel Blizzard's decisions about "gameplay-related" lore changed during recent years. I don't know, maybe WoL shouldn't be placed just 4 years after BW, but then again it could'nt take too long or we'd see all Terran characters too old.
People above here need to check their facts. Look at the link Sheo came up with - there's plenty of stuff about Infestors, Corruptors and Brood Lords in there too. The latter two aren't directly explained, but it's not like Blizzard just went "sod-it-we'll-throw-in-some-random-new-units"; they did think about this stuff.
In regards to bugs; the Zerg race has always been partially based on bugs. Where d'you think the idea of creep slime comes from? And heck, the word 'drone'? Or what about 'Larvae'?
What kind of bugs on Earth are you looking at weirdo? I've never seen an awesome zerg bug here on Earth with CREEP. That is what makes the Alien Zerg Race unique. ALIEN. And what about those words? Those are words that deal with biology. They are not solely relative to Bugs moron. Now when I play as zerg I feel like i am a freaking queen insect... not a fearsome alien bad@$$. C'mon. Stop buying into it. We need creativity and originality....
I am not complaining... but I'd rather see something great.. especially since the money i'll be spending with all expansions in total. I better get what i pay for. I DON'T WANT BUGS. ZERGS ARE NOT RELATED TO BUGS. THEY ARE JUST VIRUSES THAT HAVE ASSIMILATED AND MORPHED INTO A DIFFERENT, BUT FEARSOME CREATURE.
EDIT* And the roaches are cool. So is their lore... but zerg shouldnt be bug.
Man even the zerglings got wings......
In SC1 i pictured them more like big @$$ monster dogs, but now they are just scary bugdogs...
meh... it's still acceptable..... i guess....
Hey I actually had an idea. What if the Fenris brood, which was supposed to hunt new creatures to be assimilated, had all these units being tested. Probably away from Koprulu, so the Fenris brood became different and a lot better from other broods. During these 4 years Kerrigan tried to find them (maybe to kill the last Cerebrate) and had to actually fight them. She killed the Cerebrate and brought the brood back to char. This would stick to lore, specially for a brood we actually never saw in action and gives the swarm a longer time of assimilation for the new units. It would also explain why this brood didn't have Lurkers or Devourers, because they left the sector before these strains appeared here.
Third and last, if I were the one to point anyone better alternatives I'd be the one writing books. I don't need to be in that position to able to feel Blizzard's decisions about "gameplay-related" lore changed during recent years. I don't know, maybe WoL shouldn't be placed just 4 years after BW, but then again it could'nt take too long or we'd see all Terran characters too old.
Your opinion is your good right, and I'm not one of the "well if you don't like it then come up with something better!" types as I full well understand that one can show his dislike for something without having to come up with a better idea - the argument's an ad hominem at it's core anyway ("you cannot make up anything as good as they can"). That said though, in this case I'd really like even just a pointer of how existing lore could've been improved. Saying "it's coming out of nowhere" really is a pointless argument. I'm not asking you to write a book, just a simple "it would've been better if they made written lore more prominent on the website!" or such would suffice. My problem is I can't find anything to make lore less 'sudden' as really, you can apply that logic to every lore ever written. Hurdur Mass Effect lore sucks because Reavers are totally deus ex machina!
If you really dislike 'Blizzard's decisions about gameplay-related lore changes during recent years', then point out what you dislike. A couple of clear examples, I mean. My claim is that there has factually been very little change from SC1, a game which I guess you'd hold in high regard lorewise, and that you're simply falling for the old untrue "everything used to be better in the old days" feeling that's inspired purely by nostalgia and dislike for everything new.
What kind of bugs on Earth are you looking at weirdo? I've never seen an awesome zerg bug here on Earth with CREEP. That is what makes the Alien Zerg Race unique. ALIEN. And what about those words? Those are words that deal with biology. They are not solely relative to Bugs moron. Now when I play as zerg I feel like i am a freaking queen insect... not a fearsome alien bad@$$. C'mon. Stop buying into it. We need creativity and originality....
I am not complaining... but I'd rather see something great.. especially since the money i'll be spending with all expansions in total. I better get what i pay for. I DON'T WANT BUGS. ZERGS ARE NOT RELATED TO BUGS. THEY ARE JUST VIRUSES THAT HAVE ASSIMILATED AND MORPHED INTO A DIFFERENT, BUT FEARSOME CREATURE.
You're gonna want to dampen your tone. Be passionate all you want, but insults are the perfect ad hominems and they have no place in a good discussion.
In response to your actual arguments; just because Zerg creatures don't literally 100% exist on earth it doesn't mean Blizzard can't have based the SC1 race on them? Sure, we have no bugs with creep, but we damn well have bugs and small animals that lay slime all over the place. And heck, how do the Zerg build units? That's right, larvae turn into cocoons and pop out as completely new units after a relatively short incubation time. That whole principle is something right out of the world of insects. Defilers look like silverfishes. And what about the Nydus worm, which is basically just a really large rainworm? It's not just the words that match.
As for 'Zergs are not related to bugs'... What? The Drone is a mutated form of the 'Gashyrr wasp'. Mutalisks shoot 'glaive wurms', and have been evolved from a creature known as the 'Mantis Screamer', that had a 'larval state'. Queens were derived from 'Arachnis brood-keepers', make of that what you will. All of this information can be found with a simple google, too. Feel free to dislike the idea that the Zerg race is based on bugs, but don't go around claiming that Blizzard has only been taking this direction since Starcraft 2. All 'buglike' stuff added in that game was the Roach, and the Infestor if you're liberal in what 'buglike' means.
i misunderstood "lore"... i assumed you meant crappy game manual/website paragraphs on units, not notations and mentionings throughout books. alright, i'd have to say that zerg, while their appearances are not solely held to them, have some relation to bugs. remember that there's a difference between being based completely on bugs and having "similarities" as the zerg do. honestly, i could care less, but it would be a lot cooler if the zerg were less bugish and more, scary. hearing that comment about "big ass monster dogs" made me think. if zerg were a bit more bulky and a tad less buggy, and the queen was replaced with something else, then they might seem a little bit more badass.
still, this doesn't really affect the game. if they'd been REALLY bug-like in the first game, and then changed into more alien forms (like the hydralisk) in sc2, then people would be mad.
feel free to ignore this, since i find this a really lame debate and don't have much devotion either way in this topic.
EDIT:
@Mozared: Go yeah, awesome comment moz... pretty thorough :D
Well, I'm not too fond of roach either. But it's not his looks what annoy me. Zergs have alot of animals inside the swarm: dogs, spiders, elephants, scorpions.. I wouldn't mind some shelled bug. The thing that disturbs me is his name.
Look at zergs theme. Zerglings, Broodlings, Hydralisks, Mutalisks, Ultralisks. Lings and lisks. All of the cannon footer units are generalized. It's the main army composition which purpose is to endlessly get thrown at enemies. Other units are more valuable to player. Others have specific role. Scougres are strictly AA and you don't see them in masses unless there is alot of air. Same with Devourers. Non -lisk units re the ones which you cannot afford to a-move into enemy defense lines. Non -lisk units are the ones which require your direct control. Lurkers, Guardians, Queens, Defilers and even Overlords. The non-sacraficial units.
Roach should have generalized name. Baneling should not. And what the hell is "Brutalisk"?! -.-
Old guys left and new guys are way too lightheaded. *sighs*
Mozared is probably most right here IMO. But another thing i was wondering about is that every zerg ground creature can burrow and the chances of that every creatures they based those from has burrow gotto be pretty slim, or is it just me?
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@XenoYoxa: Go
@SoulFilcher: Go
@BasicGear: Go
I think Xeno meant Jaxter's avatar. And to Xeno, Basic was talking about the screenshot of the fake silhouette. If I'm misunderstanding sarcasm, I apologize.
Hydralisk and bangeling mixed together to create an acid throwing unit? or hydra roach?
If they are going to start allowing hydraroaches I personally want to see some hydralisks riding ontop of ultralisks. Elephant archer ne1?
In all seriousness though, its a baneling not a hydra or roach. Roach has another set of legs and its teeth are completely different. While the hydra teeth look right, so do the baneling teeth and judging by the fact that it has the same number of legs as a baneling, I'm going to lock in my answer now.
That said, could be an evolution of zergling (as an alternative to banelings).
If Blizzard has been smart they will be making this unit to increase options for zerg in all matchups. This probably means that this unit will be effective vs roaches (to reduce roach in zvz), not that effective vs marines (to keep roach it zvt), and decently effective vs gateway units (to reduce roach slightly in zvp). Which kindof comes down to a ranged anti-armor unit. To keep it different from immortal and marauder (and prevent it being useless in air rush situations), it will probably be able to attack air.
Or it might be a bunker buster. Pray its a bunker buster. But then what does it do vs protoss?
I seriously doubt they will make it have attack/move modes. Too similar to siege tank (and they have stated that they want to make every unit unique). Although maybe a fast attack mode and slow armor mode would be ok (for crawling towards a bunker or tank and then opening up to attack). Would be really kiteable, so only really useful for attacking bases.
it's pikachu!!!! on serious steroids
Since when did Zerg creatures started to look like Bugs..... They had their own unique look, but now they have a creature named Roach.... which is like and sounds like a bug........ c'mon i dont want a bug race... i want a fu ckin zerg race.
good point. the ultralisk isn't exactly beetle ish... neither is the hydralisk, brood lord, so on. they need something mixed around between species.
@IkotheSwarm: Go +1 for that. Also to make it worse we don't even know how Zerg got Roaches. SC1 manual explains how some of the original units were assimilated by the swarm, but during 4 since BW we'd expect that new units are: A) new strains morphed from previous zerg creatures. B) recently assimilated creatures from Koprulu sector.
For Roaches it has to be B, but what were roaches before assimilation? And how's that they're already so well suited for the swarm's purpose in 4 years that they moved Hydralisks to higher tier? lol
Not to mention Infestors, Corruptors and Brood Lords, these make no sense at all.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Ummm... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/roach?
People above here need to check their facts. Look at the link Sheo came up with - there's plenty of stuff about Infestors, Corruptors and Brood Lords in there too. The latter two aren't directly explained, but it's not like Blizzard just went "sod-it-we'll-throw-in-some-random-new-units"; they did think about this stuff.
In regards to bugs; the Zerg race has always been partially based on bugs. Where d'you think the idea of creep & slime comes from? And heck, the word 'drone'? Or what about 'Larvae'?
@Mozared: Go
Blizzard can justify anything, it's Blizzard. And Zergs might be based on bugs, but we're here talking about style and feel of race. To me zergs always felt more like Aliens, from movie, not like bugs from StarShip Troopers. Blizzard just didn't continue artistic vision of first SC and that annoys some people (me included :D )
well, i understand that they are bug related, although roaches don't look completely bugish, but i'm just suggesting it doesn't become a theme...
as for the history of the units, i don't give a damn. i never even played sc2 or brood war lol (that's not to say i'm not interested in the story, as i did read everything over in the manual, but i just don't care about unnecessary details)
@SheogorathSC: Go Ok, its the first time I see that, and I shouldn't have expected anything better based on how Blizzard cares for lore during recent years. Its way too easy to say: There was this creature nobody knew about that was just like roaches without the Zerg part. And do it for all new units. The original ones have been improved for a very long time. The Hydralisk as one example is said to be none like the slow, pacific Slothien. And now Kerrigan can create Roaches and Infestors in 4 years.
Well, ok, I'm done. I find lore very important, mainly because that's what I love (or used to love) about the SC universe. I just need to realize things are no longer what they used to be for this universe.
@DuckyTheDuck: Go
Sure, that's well possible. Problem here was that it doesn't warrant an "omg Zerg are suddenly based on insects lolroach wtf even?".
@SoulFilcher: Go
Sounds a tad whiny, imo. What would you want? From what you're saying the only options were to either A) give Zerg no new units or B) forcing SC2 players to somehow write and play through pages and evolutions of development to warrant a new unit. I think they handled it all very well. Of course it's going to come "out of nowhere" because that's where ALL lore comes from. Sc1 lore came "out of nowhere" as well. I see very little difference between SC1 and SC2 lore, tbh. Feel free to point it out and give us an alternative to the existing lore.
@Mozared: Go
First, I don't care how it sounds to you.
Second, I know sticking to lore would cause problems to gameplay in several levels, this is just one case. Games in general have problems like this, but most of them don't have good lore so why bother in their case? How many games you know actually sell books about their lore?
Third and last, if I were the one to point anyone better alternatives I'd be the one writing books. I don't need to be in that position to able to feel Blizzard's decisions about "gameplay-related" lore changed during recent years. I don't know, maybe WoL shouldn't be placed just 4 years after BW, but then again it could'nt take too long or we'd see all Terran characters too old.
What kind of bugs on Earth are you looking at weirdo? I've never seen an awesome zerg bug here on Earth with CREEP. That is what makes the Alien Zerg Race unique. ALIEN. And what about those words? Those are words that deal with biology. They are not solely relative to Bugs moron. Now when I play as zerg I feel like i am a freaking queen insect... not a fearsome alien bad@$$. C'mon. Stop buying into it. We need creativity and originality....
I am not complaining... but I'd rather see something great.. especially since the money i'll be spending with all expansions in total. I better get what i pay for. I DON'T WANT BUGS. ZERGS ARE NOT RELATED TO BUGS. THEY ARE JUST VIRUSES THAT HAVE ASSIMILATED AND MORPHED INTO A DIFFERENT, BUT FEARSOME CREATURE.
EDIT* And the roaches are cool. So is their lore... but zerg shouldnt be bug. Man even the zerglings got wings...... In SC1 i pictured them more like big @$$ monster dogs, but now they are just scary bugdogs... meh... it's still acceptable..... i guess....
Hey I actually had an idea. What if the Fenris brood, which was supposed to hunt new creatures to be assimilated, had all these units being tested. Probably away from Koprulu, so the Fenris brood became different and a lot better from other broods. During these 4 years Kerrigan tried to find them (maybe to kill the last Cerebrate) and had to actually fight them. She killed the Cerebrate and brought the brood back to char. This would stick to lore, specially for a brood we actually never saw in action and gives the swarm a longer time of assimilation for the new units. It would also explain why this brood didn't have Lurkers or Devourers, because they left the sector before these strains appeared here.
Maybe I should go write a book about it ;-)
But you care enough to point that out? Does that mean you don't care about what I think about what you think, but do want to give me a response?
Your opinion is your good right, and I'm not one of the "well if you don't like it then come up with something better!" types as I full well understand that one can show his dislike for something without having to come up with a better idea - the argument's an ad hominem at it's core anyway ("you cannot make up anything as good as they can"). That said though, in this case I'd really like even just a pointer of how existing lore could've been improved. Saying "it's coming out of nowhere" really is a pointless argument. I'm not asking you to write a book, just a simple "it would've been better if they made written lore more prominent on the website!" or such would suffice. My problem is I can't find anything to make lore less 'sudden' as really, you can apply that logic to every lore ever written. Hurdur Mass Effect lore sucks because Reavers are totally deus ex machina!
If you really dislike 'Blizzard's decisions about gameplay-related lore changes during recent years', then point out what you dislike. A couple of clear examples, I mean. My claim is that there has factually been very little change from SC1, a game which I guess you'd hold in high regard lorewise, and that you're simply falling for the old untrue "everything used to be better in the old days" feeling that's inspired purely by nostalgia and dislike for everything new.
You're gonna want to dampen your tone. Be passionate all you want, but insults are the perfect ad hominems and they have no place in a good discussion.
In response to your actual arguments; just because Zerg creatures don't literally 100% exist on earth it doesn't mean Blizzard can't have based the SC1 race on them? Sure, we have no bugs with creep, but we damn well have bugs and small animals that lay slime all over the place. And heck, how do the Zerg build units? That's right, larvae turn into cocoons and pop out as completely new units after a relatively short incubation time. That whole principle is something right out of the world of insects. Defilers look like silverfishes. And what about the Nydus worm, which is basically just a really large rainworm? It's not just the words that match.
As for 'Zergs are not related to bugs'... What? The Drone is a mutated form of the 'Gashyrr wasp'. Mutalisks shoot 'glaive wurms', and have been evolved from a creature known as the 'Mantis Screamer', that had a 'larval state'. Queens were derived from 'Arachnis brood-keepers', make of that what you will. All of this information can be found with a simple google, too. Feel free to dislike the idea that the Zerg race is based on bugs, but don't go around claiming that Blizzard has only been taking this direction since Starcraft 2. All 'buglike' stuff added in that game was the Roach, and the Infestor if you're liberal in what 'buglike' means.
i misunderstood "lore"... i assumed you meant crappy game manual/website paragraphs on units, not notations and mentionings throughout books. alright, i'd have to say that zerg, while their appearances are not solely held to them, have some relation to bugs. remember that there's a difference between being based completely on bugs and having "similarities" as the zerg do. honestly, i could care less, but it would be a lot cooler if the zerg were less bugish and more, scary. hearing that comment about "big ass monster dogs" made me think. if zerg were a bit more bulky and a tad less buggy, and the queen was replaced with something else, then they might seem a little bit more badass.
still, this doesn't really affect the game. if they'd been REALLY bug-like in the first game, and then changed into more alien forms (like the hydralisk) in sc2, then people would be mad.
feel free to ignore this, since i find this a really lame debate and don't have much devotion either way in this topic.
EDIT:
@Mozared: Go yeah, awesome comment moz... pretty thorough :D
Well, I'm not too fond of roach either. But it's not his looks what annoy me. Zergs have alot of animals inside the swarm: dogs, spiders, elephants, scorpions.. I wouldn't mind some shelled bug. The thing that disturbs me is his name.
Look at zergs theme. Zerglings, Broodlings, Hydralisks, Mutalisks, Ultralisks. Lings and lisks. All of the cannon footer units are generalized. It's the main army composition which purpose is to endlessly get thrown at enemies. Other units are more valuable to player. Others have specific role. Scougres are strictly AA and you don't see them in masses unless there is alot of air. Same with Devourers. Non -lisk units re the ones which you cannot afford to a-move into enemy defense lines. Non -lisk units are the ones which require your direct control. Lurkers, Guardians, Queens, Defilers and even Overlords. The non-sacraficial units.
Roach should have generalized name. Baneling should not. And what the hell is "Brutalisk"?! -.-
Old guys left and new guys are way too lightheaded. *sighs*
Mozared is probably most right here IMO. But another thing i was wondering about is that every zerg ground creature can burrow and the chances of that every creatures they based those from has burrow gotto be pretty slim, or is it just me?