SC2Mapster

We need a cannibal troll on this forum....

http://forums.sc2mapster.com/player-zone/map-review/14164-nexus-word-wars-replays-strategy/#p8

Life has intervened. Just wait till christmas.

can't help but think this is more shameless advertising.

Tie up all lose ends, but let bygones be bygones.

Tell her you're sorry, but expect to move on with life.

You only have a case if you have taken the name Left 2 Die on a net on bnet. It doesn't matter if the idea came up before.

I can argue that I mumbled the words internet when I was 2, and that I should be paid money each time it was used in a conversation, but that doesn't really hold up does it..

If you did have a map named Left 2 Die on bnet before Blizzard announced their maps, I wish you the best of luck. It'd be pretty despicable of Blizzard despite them having the rights to do it.

If not, you shouldn't be QQing.

You guys are trying to decide where the appropriate line is for something to be offensive: if dyke is overboard or not IE.

However it's prety obvious that NWW was completely over the line with quite a few of its words...

and to Rod, it's highly likely that Blizzard is not a single person. What probably happened was several players flagged your map, and alerted Blizzard. A Blizzard employee probably chose the earliest or latest flag for your map, and took a random offensive word in there, and pasted it into the e-mail you got. Blizzard has lazy employees; they probably don't care much for your map either. It's probably just a number number in their eyes. Try to imagine the attitude you would have at a medial job on the Blizzard employees handling all the annoying flags and e-mails.

Quote from progammer: Go

We do acknowledge there is a bug that still allow some user to post to a locked thread, so in general a thread is tagged deleted or move to a thrash forum to prevent people from posting. Side effects include other people not having any other way to read the thread.

If a problem becomes too widespread, the simplest solution is to just shoot them all.

http://www.google.com.tw/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADFA_enTW391TW391&q=backwards+b+

@ItsPawl: Go

you obviously have not been following the thread as well as you think.. People who want to expose it are NOT doing it because they think it's right. Nobody here think it's OK to open maps. Everyone here think it's a problem. So stop misinterpretting and consequently putting words in our mouths.

The topic here is: Whether it's right to talk about map cracking if it's to spread publicity about it. The main re-occuring arguement supporting map cracking is that it raises awareness to a problem, NOT BECAUSE IT'S OK TO DO SO!!!

Sexual education in high schools do not mean that the teachers want the teens to have sex, just to be aware of the risks if they do so.

Quote from ProzaicMuze: Go

Oi. . . I'm about to lose a lot of popularity, but a lot of you need to hear this: you're all a bunch of greedy idiots.

Quote from EternalWraith: Go

@TheZizz: Go

True that. I dont support this one bit though. As a fellow map maker, I know how hard it is creating good maps, and then have dumb asses leech resources or data from it or republish it as their own. It actually sickens me. People learn through tutorials or working it out on their own. NOBODY learns through just opening a map. How do you learn from that?. You cant. There is no explanation or anything. Educational purposes? pfft. Yeah right.

And no Blizz wont ban you for publishing someone else`s map. No proof of authorship.

So yeah OP. Riveting tale chap. Too bad Blizzard ALREADY knows about this. Too bad the chances of them actually changing it is slim. Too bad you are further destroying map makers by making this knowledge EVEN more common.

I beg to differ. I learned how to use the editor by downloading existing maps, piecing through them and editing them to see what the resulting change was. The reason for this being that it's 10x faster to take an existing map and alter fields than it is to stumble through a blank map trying to make something successfully and THEN tweak it to see the results. You cut out the hours of "I fail at life" and get straight to the "so THIS is how it works." You don't learn how to play an instrument by writing your own music to discover music theory. You learn by playing music written by other people.

Quote from Kalekin: Go

@Sixen: Go

This is rediculous... It's not about open source vs closed source. The person who made this map does not want people to see how he put it together and that should be respected amongst this community. Just because someone can use a few hacky techniques to unlock a map doesn't mean that anyone releasing a map to the public must accept that they no longer have a right to deny access to their work.

Just because Blizzard's current method of locking is inadequate shouldn't give this forum the right to open up other peoples work. As I said before, I have nothing against sharing work in order to benefit the community. If someone wants to keep a lid on a certain technique they are using inside their map we shouldn't be pasting it all over the forum.

Sure, there is nothing we can do about locked maps but that is no reason to encourage it by allowing this thread to sit on the forum. What would you do if the creator came on here and requested that he wants this post removed? Would you say no? The creator has already told us that he does not want his work to be public by locking his map.

This kind of mentality is just selfish. You come to a site that is full of helpful information and people willing to bend over backwards walking you through anything from the most basic of mind-numbingly easy steps to advanced concepts. Yet you seem to expect that you can take this knowledge you've taken from others and then hide it in your map because you don't want to share? Why would I want to support this at all?

Quote from EternalWraith: Go

@Sixen: Go

Not really..

The problem isn`t that Sotis is posted here, but rather the instructions how to unlock. So Sotis itself being posted here is of no consequence since we are already now equipped with the knowledge to hack it. Understand what I mean?

It has everything to do with respecting the privacy of authors. Meaning if I dont want you to open my map, even if it means to learn something, then NO you cant open it. I dont care about this open source argument, and I hate the fact you bring it up all the time. You are not a map maker, So you cant seem to understand this. Map making in Starcraft 1 does not count at all.

And you should know Sixen. Most people are DUMB. The average person does NOT know how to unlock maps!. Heck, before reading this thread, I did not even have a solid idea on how to unlock a map. But now I do!, and I am by no means a noob when it come to software/internet/etc etc. So NO. Most people dont know about this.

Im disappointed in the way you are dealing with this. Normally, you are very reasonable and logical, but here you just seem...arrogant. You completely disregarded everything that all the posters here have said. And who is the OP?. Is he your friend or something?. This all seems very strange.

Edit: Full proof protection from Blizzard will NEVER happen. We must always keep secret and safeguard what little protection we have.

One thing I've noticed about your posts is you generalize a LOT. By now it's pretty obvious that there ARE two sides to this and perhaps even three. You're missing a very important point that Sixen is calm enough to understand. Knowing HOW to hack helps you. Why? Because it diverts your efforts to avoid this problem away from relying on "lock map" to other methods of securing data.

Some of you may not know this, but prior to Rodrigo's banned NWW, his game was "sabotaged" via editing the banks he thought were unhackable. He brought it up on IRC and within minutes many, many people pointed out how easily this could have been done, what methods might have been used AND what he could have done to avoid it. Now he might think that having a guide on how to access encrypted banks is bad. I, on the other hand, know that if he had seen it ahead of time he likely would have changed his approach and possible been more protected than without the knowledge the guide provided.

Simply put, if I write a guide that claims I can teach you how to break into ANY car with certain locking method, efforts would be taken to develop a new method that was more secure.

Personally, I think it's just plain foolish to want to be able to use a program you didn't develop that comes with a game you didn't make to create maps using assets that don't belong to you. . . and then expect to have all the rights associated with the people who DO own all of the above. Now if you had created custom models, textures etc and imported them I completely support the protection of these kinds of assets. Unfortunately this isn't the case.

Quote from uiasdnmb: Go

If author wants his map to be public he wouldn't lock it. You should feel bad for trying to unlock and read it, even for "learning purposes". If you open his map and look up stuff without his permission your as good as stealing his map ideas/designs.

No, if they took content from his map and called it their own THAT is stealing. That aside, you're attempting to argue on Ekco's behalf. If he had a problem with it he'd step forward and continue to speak until something was done. Oh. . . wait. . . he's not doing that. . . I guess he doesn't have a problem with it.

Quote from EternalWraith: Go

@RileyStarcraft: Go

1. Only Sixen supports this. The other mods do not.(Well most of them I think) 2. You are definitely an asset to Mapster. We would not want to lose you. 3. This pisses me off just as much as you or anyone else here.

I actually gave Sixen an ultimatum about it backstage. There is a discussion going on there. Basically, if he deletes it, then everything goes back to being cool

If he does not. I resign as mod, and yeah I dont know what the others will do, but we`ll see. Personally I cant stand this.

So if by tomorrow or the next day, you see my mod status removed or my name color gone back to green. Then you know I got demoted. Sixen did not change his mind, and I become a martyr;p. So just give it some time and we`ll see what happens.

You're an idiot if you think that this action does anything other than make you out to be an arrogant fool. Keep in mind that while I AM working with you on your map and I have no problem continuing to do so, I disapprove of the attitude you've conveyed in the majority of your posts since becoming a mod. Sixen supports this site as a paid job. You're a token member of the staff by hobby. Thus you thinking that trying to strong-arm Sixen into backing down by threatening removal of your support is just childish. Not to mention the fact that you're willing drag what should be left to the staffing team out into the light in hopes of becoming a "martyr" is beyond self-serving.

I am a moderator and I support Sixen. I am also a DAMN good mapper who has done more than most of you to enable everyone to create great content for their map. I continue to help others at my expense and encourage others to do so as well. I also share EVERYTHING I make and then go out of my way to help you understand how to use it. That being said I'm greatly bothered by how many of you would opt to keep everything you make to yourself. I and many others teach you how to make your map and then you squabble with others over who "owns" the idea when you probably didn't even come up with it on your own. So stop with the argument "only Sixen and non-mappers support this" because the point is no longer valid.

Quote from RileyStarcraft: Go

It's pretty clear that Sixen feels that mapmakers should have no choice in how other people use their work, is entirely unsympathetic to the inevitability of people getting their maps stolen and lives in a fantasy where he has no responsibility for the content posted on his own website. Fair enough. It's been swell.

This is just wrong. He wants you to realize that you're simply avoiding the problem rather than addressing it. People are still trying to lock their maps with a method that this guide proves is ineffective. If they knew this, don't you think that they'd stop trying what doesn't work and move towards an actual solution?

You don't solve problems by hiding them from anyone who might want to exploit them. You put the problems on the table and see how people exploit them so that you can then take this knowledge and better protect yourself. The marketplace is no where near ready to be implemented and as long as we all pretend that unlocking maps isn't easily done it's never going to get here. We need a way to protect genuinely unique content and assets, but we're not going to get there by censoring everything bad and hoping Blizzard will fix the problem for us.

But I guess we should all stick our heads in the sand because we've got maps that aren't really ours to protect, right?

QFT, but a bit in your face?? However I loved your analogies; all of them are completely relatable. I think that the conclusion has ALWAYS been, don't hide the problem.

@WhiskeeGX: Go

Quote from Liquidor: Go

Before I read this post I didn't exactly know how the maps could be unlocked ... to an extend. I'm glad that I do now, because this will help me prevent it by obfuscating the map as much as possible.

I'm a web developer and in order to prevent your product to get hacked, you yourself need to know how to actually hack it. That goes for all kind of programming, even map development. I'm just saying...

That's already one way it's working.... You're idea of spamming their forums work also.

You should also avoid words that start with the letter d in general. Cuz god forbid, if Blizzard catches you...

@EternalWraith: Go

It's a hell of alot better than just laying flat on the ground, and praying that map unprotection suddenly just stops. Hear no evil, see no evil, and do no evil.

Please try to keep an open-mind about things, as opposed to not. You started with the conclusion that my arguement is pointless before even going into anything.....

And I have been in communities in the past also. BEFORE warcraft 3. Not everyone here is completely new to the internet.

Simply put, map unprotection happens, it's up to us, the people who don't want this to happen, to do something about it. The only way we can do anything about it, is to spread the two messages:

Someone please fix it. Maps are not safe right now, so only post maps if you want people to open them.

Btw, SC2 is a new game with ALOT of future plans. If the communities dies, multiplayer will be pointless, people will simply just play the campaign which does not have to be bought "hyuk hyuk". Blizzard HAS to do something about the problems or else they risk losing profit.

Also, what actually ends up happening is a variety of map protectors come out, each that protects in a certain way. Map crackers will have to litterally open up the maps in hex-edit and check which protector was used. The more protectors out there,the more difficult it will be to unprotect maps.

People who are suggesting that it is possible to completely lay flat and ignore the problem have not taken into account the hacking/malicious forums that will arise, youtube, google, etc. etc....

Honestly, it's the intent behind this thread that makes all the difference. I really don't believe that the actual purpose of this thread is to screw map makers over. Even though blizzard knows about their mistakes, they aren't going to change anything unless people start making waves. My first conclusion is to promote this exploit as much as possible until Blizzard gets off their jolly asses and does something right. There's always going to be those assholes who actually do open the maps to put in cheats. They won't stop just because they are suppose to feel bad about it.

As far as it goes, all maps that have been released already are screwed already. There's nothing stopping anyone from finding the maps and cracking them. Deleting this single thread will not impeded the process of opening a locked map in any noticable way.

AGAIN DELETING THIS THREAD WILL DO NOTHING!!!!! The existance of this thread is alerting the good people who do not google "SC2 crack map". The existance of this thread is to start waves inside the good mapping community. Deleting this thread just means that bad people will continue to bad things without being noticed on a large scale, hence nothing!!

People will google and find the steps somewhere else in less than a minute. The only way around this is for someone to find an actual lock to the maps. It could be blizzard, it might not be blizzard. My second conclusion is for people to refuse to release any new maps until someone fixes the problem. We should NOT be posting the actual unlocked maps here though. However, if some authors are willing to have their maps unlocked and somehow start a campaign against blizzard major screw up.......

I came from a valve community before this, and how anything was done, was by whining in their forums. Enough whining = change, no matter what lol.