Actually, last time I checked, AOS was the genre. If we're naming the genre after the first map of its kind that was created, that is.
Just saying.
no we name it after the most popular map of the genre, like when you make a diablo map, or like how when you talk about making a rts with heroe's your making a wc3 game(wc3 wasnt the 1st hero based rts)
I don't want to stove off into some huge discussion about semantics in someone else's thread, but...
Isn't that an extremely weird way of measurement? Football would be named something along the lines of "Maradonna-sport". Pop music would be named "The Beatles music". Strategy games would be called "Command & Conquer games" or "Dune II games". Pretty much every activity in existence has either been named by it's creator is has been given a name that has something to do with it's creator. Back when the first DOTA was released, we even used to say it was "an AOS map". Also, I've never heard anyone say he was "making a wc3 map" for starcraft (2).
I'd probably be happy with MOBA, even though I find it a tad weird of a name.
A starcraft 2 version of it, has to be more newbie friendly but at the same time fun. Easy to learn, hard to master. Dota (WC3) was hard as hell to understand what the heck is going on, since it doesn't really explain it.
Yes I addressed some issues on my previous post. No direct suggestions however.
Actually, last time I checked, AOS was the genre. If we're naming the genre after the first map of its kind that was created, that is.
Just saying.
Nope, mobagamers.com.. the site seems to be down at the moment (haven't been there for a while so it might went down). The guy pretty much came up with the acronym himself.
Here is an idea for a hero I thought up of for a popular sc1 AoS (i never posted this idea, however).
The hero first starts off as 1 unit. What makes this hero unique is his specialty to break into multiple, weaker forms of the starting hero. So as an example, he starts off with 1200 hp, 50 dmg. He then breaks up into 2 weaker versions, each with 600 hp and 25 dmg each (these stats could be changed for balance). Then, if you want to go really crazy with this idea, have another ability that splits him into 3 even weaker forms.
I think that he should be able to freely morph back into 1 whole unit.
how bout a hero that shoots acid, throw balls of acid that explode if someone gets too close and DOT everyone in its area just like fungal growth , and dont know if its possible but it be cool if when it gets hit or die it spreads acid to enemy's on melee range. Maybe also morph into a spore crawler for a few seconds and get + damage but cant move.
Another one could be a protoss like hero that transforms into a cloud of energy for a short time and while at it it cannot be targeted and does a small amount of damage to enemys within the cloud. Dont know if thats possible but i think a good cloud effect could be the last part of the animation of a protoss building exploding. Oh and he could make a gravity ball to hold off the enemy for few sec.
Make a Thor Hero that can separate itself into 3 other mech units and then merge together again :P and maybe act like a Carrier and shoot small hellions xD. Maybe shoot a small flying unit for a few seconds to heal itself. Oh and maybe it could get healed just a bit if it kills another mechanical unit :P
eventually, the better players with more knowledge about the game will win
The problem is that Dota confounds 'better player' with 'more knowledge about the game'.
Much like Diablo 2, knowledge about obscure mechanics (many of which bugs) is so important that if you don't study the game, you will never be able to beat anyone even if you intuitively play very well. To jungle effectively, you need to know how many jungle creeps you can take on at what level, you need to know which items are the best, and you need to know you can exploit bugs to creep pull or stack. The actual execution then involves... clicking on the creep.
Not to mention learning 3A48013910850185EQRD JD3LAJD2L 050 AP KT items by heart.
Once you know everything, the best player will win... but it's such a large amount of bs to learn and the tactics you employ have so little to do with killing the other team and more with some abstraction of what might possibly be constituted as war if you didn't kill your own units and didn't avoid pushing the front line at all costs and didn't block your own reinforcements to achieve this.
I've been waiting for a Dota style game that actually injects some sense into the genre. So far nothing.
regardless of how the balance turns out (it can always be fixed and remodeled and adjusted), it's so nice to see that DOTA on SC2 is taking a new direction and not just importing and recreating the existing one. bold enough to alter something like str agi int to something else. "deadily" awesome.
Someone told me the map I am making is a DotA-ripoff, but I had never played DotA before.... I ended up playing a game of it just to see and he was right (to my dismay). 3 paths leading to the enemy base, waves of mobs fighting each other. Oh well.
I hope your map and my Cerebrates map don't step on each others toes when July 27th hits!
Jakkin Stormer.
Uses a shrunken thor model to look about the size of a regular immortal. Falls into the armored category. Uses ranged attacks to stay behind minions, just normal Thor attack animation.
Four abilities.
First is Hammer of the Gods, which is an active ability. Switches Stormer's passive attack to use the thor's rockets, increasing range and damage, but draining mana at a constant rate, maybe per shot. Can add in a fun animation (make it glow) or a sound ("Feel the Thundah!").
Second ability, active
Using the Thor's 250 mm Cannon animation to make Stormer use his AoE attack within a certain range, dealing AoE damage to all units in the blast radius and decreasing their movement speed for three seconds via Cannon Shock. This attack is channeled, so a stun cancels the attack and returns Stormer to normal mode. This AoE has a range X radius around Stormer.
Third ability, active
Call for Backup! Uses a set amount of mana, 33% which drops per higher level but remains high, to use the Mule Calldown animation and call an SCV to repair (heal) Stormer. SCV is treated as a pet and has a limited lifetime before self-destructing. SCV can (or cannot) heal other units. SCV can (or cannot) attack.
Fourth Ability, active ultimate
Stormer shouts out ("Watch This!" "I am Heavy Metal!") and transforms into a Battlecruiser. In this form, b/c he is a BC, he has noclip with units and can chase down escaping champs. Uses the BC's attack animations. Stormer cannot use any other abilities while transformed. Stormer has increased speed while in this form and does increased damage to enemy champions and buildings. Lasts X seconds.
Stormer is a caster sniper, hitting minions from afar while whittling down champs, then using his ult to chase them down and finish them. He'll probably need to be uber balanced, just because he is so god-like (haha get it? Thor?). I suggest give him high armor (shields) but low HP, like an archon, so anything with some armor (shield) pen will not have trouble.
Crosses fingers* Heres to making my mark on the newest Dota!
First post here, so I hope this will get as far as the other hero ideas get.
What do you think about a hero who is specialzed in supporting the other heros on the map?
My exact Idea was for her to be a medic in every respect of the word. She would be a psionic or biological hero who can only succeed if she lanes with another hero (or unit) who can cover her. This would allow her to take full advantage of the mercenary system because she cant do anything alone. Her abilities are as follows:
1. Flash Bang: She fires a grenade at an open area on the map and 2 or 3 seconds later it explodes dealing VERY LOW damage and cutting any victim's line of sight in half for X number of seconds. A bit like "Flare" From the original Starcraft.
2. Heal: She targets any frendly unit (Not limited to Heros) and instantly restores X amount of health to the targeted unit.
3. Energy: Grants her an aura of increased mana regeneration as a passive ability. She can cast this ability (as an active ability) on any friendly unit to restore X amount of mana but she loses the passive ability while it is cooling down.
4. Regenerate: She instantly restores X amount of health to ALL friendly heros, regardless of their position on the map. This suffers from a very long cooldown time.
If you need a source as to where this idea came from, look up "Soraka" from the game League of Legends.
I hope that she makes it into the game, and I cant wait to play it.
Abilities :
1- Energy Absorbtion :
Whenever a unit loses energy in a 12 range area (around 1200 I think), the templar gains 9 / 18 / 27 / 36 % of that energy back (excluding his own energy lost).
*OR*
Constantly absorb 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 % of all units energy in a 10 area each second.
Passive aura. No CD and no energy-cost (DUH!)
2- Energy Flare :
Concentrate a high amount of energy (maybe around 20% to 25% of current energy) into a small area over a few seconds and then releases it to damage EVERYTHING (that mean EVEN ALLIES) in a 3 / 3 / 4 / 4 area. Also depletes 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 % of units current mana.
Low CD and %-based energy-cost.
3- Transfer :
Casted on an ally : transfer 11 / 22 / 33 / 44 % of current energy to target ally.
Casted on an enemy : Drains 11 / 22 / 33 / 44 % of current target's energy to himself.
No energy-cost and high CD.
4- Energizing vitality :
Switch target (ally, enemy or self) current HP % with current Energy %.
Casted on an ally or self : Target then loses 300 / 200 / 100 HP and Energy.
Casted on an enemy : Target then loses 150 / 300 / 450 HP and Energy.
No energy-cost (except the after-effect) and high CD
Having a high amount of energy isn't very useful with this hero, depending on what you want to do. As a DPS, a lot of energy makes his flares insanly strong and boosts Transfer when casted on ally.
His ults works almost anytime, to save yourself from death because your energy pool is full, to makes an enemy units loses all his health while gaining energy (but he'll die in that energy flare anyway :P), etc. Skills works great together imo..
Maybe need balance, random numbers that seems to be quite fair. Working on that !
Each hero should have a unique theme, having abilities that work altogether...
stealing energy to give energy to allies, and switching hps to burn him to death with energy aura...
the theme of the energy DT is basically burning the enemy with energy, and swapping hp which seems overpowered lol.
Definitely does need balance haha, but it's a good attempt you showed.
Hello there! I had wanted to make a DotA remake myself, but since the mechanics are there, why bother...
I found the idea with bio/armor/psi really interesting, as with the mercenaries stuff (btw dude, you are THERE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131718), it adds a nice twist and so SoTiS isn't a copycat.
Still, I've done work of my own considering heroes and items. I'd love to cooperate on this map. If you're interested, pm me.
There seems to be a huge <3 for a reaper hero here...
If you do make one theres a nifty hack you can do to its jumping to make it so that it can only jump down cliffs... (Ambush but not easy escape from every situation)
If you try to do this by behaviour to not have a jump up mover, the game crashes, and if you give a mover that cant complete the jump the same happens.
Replace the first line of 'cliff' pathing allong the top of the ridge line with ground pathing, this will let your units walk realisticaly close to the cliff edge, and will prevent the reaper being able to jump UP the cliff... Diagram below. (G = Ground Pathing, C = Cliff Pathing, X=Below Ground)
(Shape of Cliff)
_ _ _
XXXX|
XXXX|_
(Initial Pathing)
GGCC
XXXXC
XXXXCG
(Changed Pathing)
GGGC
XXXXC
XXXXCG
Allows you more control over jump moves...
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Actually, last time I checked, AOS was the genre. If we're naming the genre after the first map of its kind that was created, that is.
Just saying.
no we name it after the most popular map of the genre, like when you make a diablo map, or like how when you talk about making a rts with heroe's your making a wc3 game(wc3 wasnt the 1st hero based rts)
The common term I've heard is MOBA: Multiplayer online battle arena.
@threeleven: Go
I don't want to stove off into some huge discussion about semantics in someone else's thread, but...
Isn't that an extremely weird way of measurement? Football would be named something along the lines of "Maradonna-sport". Pop music would be named "The Beatles music". Strategy games would be called "Command & Conquer games" or "Dune II games". Pretty much every activity in existence has either been named by it's creator is has been given a name that has something to do with it's creator. Back when the first DOTA was released, we even used to say it was "an AOS map". Also, I've never heard anyone say he was "making a wc3 map" for starcraft (2).
I'd probably be happy with MOBA, even though I find it a tad weird of a name.
Which is basically any game. Take starcraft 2 as an example.
Yes I addressed some issues on my previous post. No direct suggestions however.
Nope, mobagamers.com.. the site seems to be down at the moment (haven't been there for a while so it might went down). The guy pretty much came up with the acronym himself.
"MOBA" is the genre. AoS is the reference.
Here is an idea for a hero I thought up of for a popular sc1 AoS (i never posted this idea, however).
The hero first starts off as 1 unit. What makes this hero unique is his specialty to break into multiple, weaker forms of the starting hero. So as an example, he starts off with 1200 hp, 50 dmg. He then breaks up into 2 weaker versions, each with 600 hp and 25 dmg each (these stats could be changed for balance). Then, if you want to go really crazy with this idea, have another ability that splits him into 3 even weaker forms.
I think that he should be able to freely morph back into 1 whole unit.
This is my hero suggestion
It may just be me, but 'Storm of the Imperial Sanctum' sounds very weird. Shouldn't it be "The Storming of..." or "Storm the..."
@ekcolnovkol: Go
@ekcolnovkol: Go
how bout a hero that shoots acid, throw balls of acid that explode if someone gets too close and DOT everyone in its area just like fungal growth , and dont know if its possible but it be cool if when it gets hit or die it spreads acid to enemy's on melee range. Maybe also morph into a spore crawler for a few seconds and get + damage but cant move.
Another one could be a protoss like hero that transforms into a cloud of energy for a short time and while at it it cannot be targeted and does a small amount of damage to enemys within the cloud. Dont know if thats possible but i think a good cloud effect could be the last part of the animation of a protoss building exploding. Oh and he could make a gravity ball to hold off the enemy for few sec.
Make a Thor Hero that can separate itself into 3 other mech units and then merge together again :P and maybe act like a Carrier and shoot small hellions xD. Maybe shoot a small flying unit for a few seconds to heal itself. Oh and maybe it could get healed just a bit if it kills another mechanical unit :P
The problem is that Dota confounds 'better player' with 'more knowledge about the game'.
Much like Diablo 2, knowledge about obscure mechanics (many of which bugs) is so important that if you don't study the game, you will never be able to beat anyone even if you intuitively play very well. To jungle effectively, you need to know how many jungle creeps you can take on at what level, you need to know which items are the best, and you need to know you can exploit bugs to creep pull or stack. The actual execution then involves... clicking on the creep.
Not to mention learning 3A48013910850185EQRD JD3LAJD2L 050 AP KT items by heart.
Once you know everything, the best player will win... but it's such a large amount of bs to learn and the tactics you employ have so little to do with killing the other team and more with some abstraction of what might possibly be constituted as war if you didn't kill your own units and didn't avoid pushing the front line at all costs and didn't block your own reinforcements to achieve this.
I've been waiting for a Dota style game that actually injects some sense into the genre. So far nothing.
That Dark Templar spell is cool! Did you make that using triggers or did you use the data editor exclusively?
regardless of how the balance turns out (it can always be fixed and remodeled and adjusted), it's so nice to see that DOTA on SC2 is taking a new direction and not just importing and recreating the existing one. bold enough to alter something like str agi int to something else. "deadily" awesome.
Someone told me the map I am making is a DotA-ripoff, but I had never played DotA before.... I ended up playing a game of it just to see and he was right (to my dismay). 3 paths leading to the enemy base, waves of mobs fighting each other. Oh well.
I hope your map and my Cerebrates map don't step on each others toes when July 27th hits!
Here's an idea for a champion.
Jakkin Stormer. Uses a shrunken thor model to look about the size of a regular immortal. Falls into the armored category. Uses ranged attacks to stay behind minions, just normal Thor attack animation. Four abilities.
First is Hammer of the Gods, which is an active ability. Switches Stormer's passive attack to use the thor's rockets, increasing range and damage, but draining mana at a constant rate, maybe per shot. Can add in a fun animation (make it glow) or a sound ("Feel the Thundah!").
Second ability, active Using the Thor's 250 mm Cannon animation to make Stormer use his AoE attack within a certain range, dealing AoE damage to all units in the blast radius and decreasing their movement speed for three seconds via Cannon Shock. This attack is channeled, so a stun cancels the attack and returns Stormer to normal mode. This AoE has a range X radius around Stormer.
Third ability, active Call for Backup! Uses a set amount of mana, 33% which drops per higher level but remains high, to use the Mule Calldown animation and call an SCV to repair (heal) Stormer. SCV is treated as a pet and has a limited lifetime before self-destructing. SCV can (or cannot) heal other units. SCV can (or cannot) attack.
Fourth Ability, active ultimate Stormer shouts out ("Watch This!" "I am Heavy Metal!") and transforms into a Battlecruiser. In this form, b/c he is a BC, he has noclip with units and can chase down escaping champs. Uses the BC's attack animations. Stormer cannot use any other abilities while transformed. Stormer has increased speed while in this form and does increased damage to enemy champions and buildings. Lasts X seconds.
Stormer is a caster sniper, hitting minions from afar while whittling down champs, then using his ult to chase them down and finish them. He'll probably need to be uber balanced, just because he is so god-like (haha get it? Thor?). I suggest give him high armor (shields) but low HP, like an archon, so anything with some armor (shield) pen will not have trouble.
Hmm...interesting champion, but screw the Battlecruiser transformation:
:D
"I suggest give him high armor (shields) but low HP, like an archon, so anything with some armor (shield) pen will not have trouble."
-"Armored: Heavy armor, moderate stat gain. Deals average weapon damage. Bonus damage against Biologicals." - That would do.
Hey guys,
First post here, so I hope this will get as far as the other hero ideas get.
What do you think about a hero who is specialzed in supporting the other heros on the map?
My exact Idea was for her to be a medic in every respect of the word. She would be a psionic or biological hero who can only succeed if she lanes with another hero (or unit) who can cover her. This would allow her to take full advantage of the mercenary system because she cant do anything alone. Her abilities are as follows:
1. Flash Bang: She fires a grenade at an open area on the map and 2 or 3 seconds later it explodes dealing VERY LOW damage and cutting any victim's line of sight in half for X number of seconds. A bit like "Flare" From the original Starcraft.
2. Heal: She targets any frendly unit (Not limited to Heros) and instantly restores X amount of health to the targeted unit.
3. Energy: Grants her an aura of increased mana regeneration as a passive ability. She can cast this ability (as an active ability) on any friendly unit to restore X amount of mana but she loses the passive ability while it is cooling down.
4. Regenerate: She instantly restores X amount of health to ALL friendly heros, regardless of their position on the map. This suffers from a very long cooldown time.
If you need a source as to where this idea came from, look up "Soraka" from the game League of Legends.
I hope that she makes it into the game, and I cant wait to play it.
A Psionic armored hero.
Abilities : 1- Energy Absorbtion : Whenever a unit loses energy in a 12 range area (around 1200 I think), the templar gains 9 / 18 / 27 / 36 % of that energy back (excluding his own energy lost). *OR* Constantly absorb 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 % of all units energy in a 10 area each second.
2- Energy Flare : Concentrate a high amount of energy (maybe around 20% to 25% of current energy) into a small area over a few seconds and then releases it to damage EVERYTHING (that mean EVEN ALLIES) in a 3 / 3 / 4 / 4 area. Also depletes 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 % of units current mana.
3- Transfer : Casted on an ally : transfer 11 / 22 / 33 / 44 % of current energy to target ally. Casted on an enemy : Drains 11 / 22 / 33 / 44 % of current target's energy to himself.
4- Energizing vitality : Switch target (ally, enemy or self) current HP % with current Energy %. Casted on an ally or self : Target then loses 300 / 200 / 100 HP and Energy. Casted on an enemy : Target then loses 150 / 300 / 450 HP and Energy.
Having a high amount of energy isn't very useful with this hero, depending on what you want to do. As a DPS, a lot of energy makes his flares insanly strong and boosts Transfer when casted on ally. His ults works almost anytime, to save yourself from death because your energy pool is full, to makes an enemy units loses all his health while gaining energy (but he'll die in that energy flare anyway :P), etc. Skills works great together imo..
Maybe need balance, random numbers that seems to be quite fair. Working on that !
Each hero should have a unique theme, having abilities that work altogether... stealing energy to give energy to allies, and switching hps to burn him to death with energy aura... the theme of the energy DT is basically burning the enemy with energy, and swapping hp which seems overpowered lol. Definitely does need balance haha, but it's a good attempt you showed.
Hello there! I had wanted to make a DotA remake myself, but since the mechanics are there, why bother... I found the idea with bio/armor/psi really interesting, as with the mercenaries stuff (btw dude, you are THERE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131718), it adds a nice twist and so SoTiS isn't a copycat. Still, I've done work of my own considering heroes and items. I'd love to cooperate on this map. If you're interested, pm me.
ecko...korvin...who else is working on it?
There seems to be a huge <3 for a reaper hero here...
If you do make one theres a nifty hack you can do to its jumping to make it so that it can only jump down cliffs... (Ambush but not easy escape from every situation)
If you try to do this by behaviour to not have a jump up mover, the game crashes, and if you give a mover that cant complete the jump the same happens.
Replace the first line of 'cliff' pathing allong the top of the ridge line with ground pathing, this will let your units walk realisticaly close to the cliff edge, and will prevent the reaper being able to jump UP the cliff... Diagram below. (G = Ground Pathing, C = Cliff Pathing, X=Below Ground)
Allows you more control over jump moves...