Hey guys. Recently I've realized I need some money. And as such, I got to thinking- what would be more fun? Getting a job, or selling a "real" game? I went with the latter, of course. Anyways I've been messing around with ideas here and there, and I sort of have "something" in my brain. "Something" that could be fun. So I'm going to explain what I've got so far, and I'm hoping you guys could suggest ideas and whatnot.
The first idea I had was sort of a 2D, online, top down shooter in which you would join one of two distinct factions. The entire game was divided into, say 50 territories, and each one would be a different map, similar to a WoW battleground. Whichever faction won a higher % of the matches on that territory each day would then control it for the next day, granting certain bonuses and actually changing the games that take place there. For example, while faction A controls a certain territory, the games in that territory take place a certain way (say, team deathmatch). But if faction B controls the area, then maybe they are trying to defend an outpost for 20 minutes while faction A assaults it. I like the whole idea of your actions actually making an impact, so you actually have something that your fighting towards.
Recently I was thinking, though. Top-down shooters are kind of...meh. You can everything around you, which takes out the element of surprise and excitement. So I'm trying to think of an alternate game-style to fit into this overarching idea (your actions actually having an impact), other than TDS. I was thinking of things like moba/dota, savage 2 style gameplay, etc... Something that's not a TDS. An mmorts would be really cool, but also extremely hard to pull off, so I'm going to stay away from that. Anyways I'd love to hear some suggestions.
<sub>Disclaimer: As previously stated, I do intended to sell this game. So don't suggest something and then ask for part of the money when I become a billionaire. K thanks ;)</sub>
edit- To clarify, I'm asking for ideas for good gameplay, NOT technical questions about how to actually do it.
What you described is called MAG for the PS3. Except that game is a FPS. Also you know you'll probably need to recruit someone to do assets and since you have the student version of 3dmax you won't be able to use any assets you make using that since it's against the rules to use it for commercial use. Also have to choose an engine, I personally like UDK. Also need distribution method, Steam is good but I don't know their policies. Apple's app store is another good one except the $99 a year thing and 30% on every sale you make, also requires a mac to actually put compile the game so it works on iOS.
Savage 2 would be good if it's done right. I suggest one of those endless games that you just keep trying to get better high scores. Then periodically release patches and downloadable content, that's if you're on the app store. Minigore is a great game and it comes with updates periodically and has new characters and levels that you have to purchase. Also they're making a new one called Minigore Zombies. The best way to cash in is by making the app universal so then people won't be split between buying a certain version.
Thanks for the input- my responses:
1. I don't make 3D games stand-alone. Frankly, too much work and not enough experience. >_>
2. Never played MAG, although I just looked it up and 100 player battles sounds pretty epic (and pretty laggy)
3. I'm going to code this in gml for the sake of simplicity, since I'm very fluent in it. I'll worry about extra distributes if I ever finish the game, but I would be fine just selling it as a PC game via my own website. I can also use a client/server setup for DRM, so I don't need to worry too much about distribution at the moment.
I'm looking more for game design ideas than the technical side of things.
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Feel free to Send me a PM if you have any questions/concerns!
My recommendation is make something in Java. It is free, and you have 100% control over what you do. Make one of those simple "Farmville" type games or something.
Also, about the UDK and whatever. However powerful are those engines? I mean, could a game like, say WoW be made in them? Are there any actual professional video game companies that use an engine like that, that they didn't actually make? I've always considered the UDK to be sort of like flash. It is cool, but really expensive. Actually I just assume that it is expensive, I don't even know what it is, which is why I am asking :D (Because the idea of making money sounds interesting to me)
"I want to create and sell a game, but don't know how"... guys! Try messing around opengl, it is a must-be for all new games, topdown 2d shooters too. How do you want to sell it? It is very hard, you must know how to do any marketing. Game should be playable, not necessarily complicated. Simpler idea is often simpler development, which implies better quality. UDK is relatively easy If you don't have any reason to pick something other, it should be good (and it is free while you don't want too much money for each copy). Anything is possible, but even great ideas need great motivation (look at pseudoform, cool project, but seems to be dead... ) and skill. Last is the easiest to achieve. Think twice and never give up.
Hey guys. Recently I've realized I need some money. And as such, I got to thinking- what would be more fun? Getting a job, or selling a "real" game? I went with the latter, of course.
Selling a "real" game is a job in itself. Its also far more difficult and the risks greater. At first thought the idea seems "fun", but when you really get into it, its serious business. 85% of people fail(or do average/poorly) at it.
Be realistic. Get a normal job, and work on something like this part time(as a hobby).
"I want to create and sell a game, but don't know how"...
Right. As I just said before to keysz. I'm not asking for technical help, I'm asking for help brainstorming and coming up with ideas for interesting gameplay.
I'm in school right now, so I want to use the free to to build (or at least start with) a game. School is essentially my job at the moment, and I am fully aware of the fact that making a game cannot replace a "real" job. But a successful game is still a nice little boost, and it's something I can do while I'm in the school year.
My recommendation is make something in Java. It is free, and you have 100% control over what you do. Make one of those simple "Farmville" type games or something.
Also, about the UDK and whatever. However powerful are those engines? I mean, could a game like, say WoW be made in them? Are there any actual professional video game companies that use an engine like that, that they didn't actually make? I've always considered the UDK to be sort of like flash. It is cool, but really expensive. Actually I just assume that it is expensive, I don't even know what it is, which is why I am asking :D (Because the idea of making money sounds interesting to me)
UDK can make an MMO and almost any type of game. It's not setup to host more than 64 players with dedicated servers but companies have found a workaround to get it to use their own servers. So an MMO would be a little more work but it's still possible, evident by DC Universe Online. Here are some more games that have been made using UDK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
A lot of companies actually use UDK to make their games because of how easy it is. Also it's not expensive at all. If you want to make a game in your free time it cost you $0 except the time to make it. Then when you're ready to start selling it cost you $0. But when you make revenue off your game it will cost $99. When you hit $50k you have to start paying royalties. But before you make the $50k you can buy a license with the money made from your game so you won't have to pay the royalties, or something along those lines. To name a few games made with UDK that aren't made by Epic(the makers of UDK): Batman Arkham City and Asylum, DC Universe Online, Borderlands, Infinity Blade(iOS game), Mass Effect 3, there's a lot. Here's a video showcasing some things in the UDK.
EDIT: Zelda I would say look through your thousand proof of concept maps you've made and combine two of them together. Maybe assassin's with nazi zombies or something like that. Please don't add zombies to your map unless it's actually zombie based. There's too many random zombie games.
This sounds like you're planning to release this as a stand-alone downloadable game, like for a PC? I don't want to go on about technical difficulties, but the mobile environment has a lot more support for people making/selling their own games. I think if you go for a PC game the buyer's expectations will be higher than a mobile game.
My personal preference is to conceptualize a game from the micro level and work my way out. The ideas you have here are very much a macro-level where you're considering the entire game as a general concept. I have been successful when thinking of small mechanics first and building around that, kind of like the small mechanics are the skeleton and then you grow some fatty game-tissue around it. When you think of a game as a general concept first, then you have to work down and try to figure out a way to squeeze some fun into the concept.
It sounds like you're most interested in doing some kind of top-down sort of game, since you mentioned both a top-down shooter and a real-time strategy. Ask some questions: What about that mode appeals to you? Does it just seem like a more manageable game to make, or are you specifically interested in this game type? Why are you interested? What will make the play of the game fun?
Just sayin', all my games have started as ideas on the micro game-mechanic level, and if those micro-concepts are fun enough then it is very easy to build a complete game around it.
You cannot make an actual MMO with UDK. Unreal Engine 3 and UDK are not the same thing. You might be able to work around it by having multiple game instances, but that might not be allowed by the EULA, and I think it might be a little advanced for a first game. There are many other, probably better suited, engines that have the capability of being used for an MMO than UDK.
Any MMO would be hard to do, especially if you're making a game specifically for getting some money. I'm guessing you don't have the funds to set up the server database that would be required, so you would be advised to stay away from that. In the event you want to make even a simple multiplayer game using peer to peer networks, you'll still require a master server to route connections. It would be much cheaper than having a dedicated array, but still might cause some complications for you if you've never done it before.
woah, no one mentioned MMO as being made. Someone just asked if the UDK was powerful enough. The UDK and UE3 are basically the same. Only difference is UE3 has assets and slightly more powerful stuff, I don't know the exact terms but this is what I found on the udk forums. Basically UE3 is more powerful and comes with assets to use since you paid for a license which makes sense. While UDK is used for free and comes with almost no assets since it's meant more for indie devs who are making their own content anyways. Also DC Universe Online and Blade and Soul would like a word with you about your faith in UDK/UE3 not making an MMO. UDK is built on top of UE3 anyways. The only difference is when you have UE3(by buying a license) you have access to the source code which means you can alter it all you want to make the MMO system work with your engine. Also UDK can do the same you'll just need to make some work arounds.
I am well aware of the differences between the two. UE3 has the source code. Which makes it infinitely more powerful as you can modify whatever you need to. Other than using DLLBind, which is extremely limited, you're limited to what is included in the UDK (Speedtree, Scaleform, and a few other things, can't remember all of them), which is the binary release of UE3.
Neither of those games use UDK; they both use UE3. As far as I'm aware, no one has developed a viable method of bypassing the player limitations for the UDK; as I said, it might not even be allowed. While UE3 is perfectly capable of an MMO, UDK is not. However we are not talking about UE3, because again I find it extremely unlikely he, or anyone discussing it for that matter, has the funds behind him to buy the license. So in short, no, it is not a viable engine to use for an MMO. As you would know if you read the many threads in the forums on people asking if they can use UDK to develop an MMO.
Wait, so the UE3 is just an incredibly jacked Galaxy Editor, that doesn't revolve around SC2? Remind me why I am modding SC2 and not making UE3 games again?
EDIT: Not here is my question. Why would I use Java? I mean, it has taken me 2 weeks just to write my basic 2D platform. I could be using the UDK, and already have a perfect 3D platform made for me. What are the downsides of using the UDK? I truly don't understand why anyone wouldn't use it. What is the point of making your own engine?
@TacoManStan: Go
EDIT: Zelda I would say look through your thousand proof of concept maps you've made and combine two of them together. Maybe assassin's with nazi zombies or something like that. Please don't add zombies to your map unless it's actually zombie based. There's too many random zombie games.
Nazi zombie assassins FTW :D Still looking for ideas for THIS specific thing....
I sort of like top down because, when it comes to 2D games, you basically have A) Sidescrollers and B) Top Down. I feel top down allows for much more gameplay.
If I can't sell games without paying a huge price in UDK, I don't care about it. Sorry.
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Feel free to Send me a PM if you have any questions/concerns!
With your own engine you can design it to do exactly what you need. If you're only making one game, it really wouldn't make much sense to develop an entire engine though, when you can develop only the resources you need to use.
UDK has a 25% royalty after making $50,000, which I would be amazed if you did, and you have to display Epic's splash screen and I think Bink's splash screen if you use it. As to why everyone is promoting UDK specifically I have no idea; there are plenty of other engines. ShiVa is fairly friendly for new developers, Unity has a free version, C4 isn't too bad, albeit kind of weird. Lawmaker used to be a decent engine, I'm not sure if it's still being worked on though.
Not terribly; it makes very little sense to give you something of mine to sell. Besides you're not giving much to work with. We have no idea what it is you can and can't do, all we know is that you might want to do a top-down shooter and you want to do it online, and know how to use Game Maker, and don't want to do anything with 3D. And you want to sell it.
With solely 2D you're limited as you noted, although you're also limited in 3D. But not to top down or sidescroller games only; you can also work with isometric views, pseudo-3D (like the original Doom, although technically I believe that's isometric), and ASCII games (which could provide for some unique gameplay; I've been considering doing a 3D game solely using ASCII symbols, but likely won't get around to it), and others. The requirements for online gaming would be significantly less as there would be no where near as much information being passed around, but still would be there. From the suggestions provided I would recommend either isometric or pseudo-3D, as that would allow the most flexibility; I don't know what the online capabilities of Game Maker are (I wouldn't use it for a large scale multiplayer game though, as it is very slow), but it's quite capable of doing it.
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Hey guys. Recently I've realized I need some money. And as such, I got to thinking- what would be more fun? Getting a job, or selling a "real" game? I went with the latter, of course. Anyways I've been messing around with ideas here and there, and I sort of have "something" in my brain. "Something" that could be fun. So I'm going to explain what I've got so far, and I'm hoping you guys could suggest ideas and whatnot.
The first idea I had was sort of a 2D, online, top down shooter in which you would join one of two distinct factions. The entire game was divided into, say 50 territories, and each one would be a different map, similar to a WoW battleground. Whichever faction won a higher % of the matches on that territory each day would then control it for the next day, granting certain bonuses and actually changing the games that take place there. For example, while faction A controls a certain territory, the games in that territory take place a certain way (say, team deathmatch). But if faction B controls the area, then maybe they are trying to defend an outpost for 20 minutes while faction A assaults it. I like the whole idea of your actions actually making an impact, so you actually have something that your fighting towards.
Recently I was thinking, though. Top-down shooters are kind of...meh. You can everything around you, which takes out the element of surprise and excitement. So I'm trying to think of an alternate game-style to fit into this overarching idea (your actions actually having an impact), other than TDS. I was thinking of things like moba/dota, savage 2 style gameplay, etc... Something that's not a TDS. An mmorts would be really cool, but also extremely hard to pull off, so I'm going to stay away from that. Anyways I'd love to hear some suggestions.
<sub>Disclaimer: As previously stated, I do intended to sell this game. So don't suggest something and then ask for part of the money when I become a billionaire. K thanks ;)</sub>
edit- To clarify, I'm asking for ideas for good gameplay, NOT technical questions about how to actually do it.
What you described is called MAG for the PS3. Except that game is a FPS. Also you know you'll probably need to recruit someone to do assets and since you have the student version of 3dmax you won't be able to use any assets you make using that since it's against the rules to use it for commercial use. Also have to choose an engine, I personally like UDK. Also need distribution method, Steam is good but I don't know their policies. Apple's app store is another good one except the $99 a year thing and 30% on every sale you make, also requires a mac to actually put compile the game so it works on iOS.
Savage 2 would be good if it's done right. I suggest one of those endless games that you just keep trying to get better high scores. Then periodically release patches and downloadable content, that's if you're on the app store. Minigore is a great game and it comes with updates periodically and has new characters and levels that you have to purchase. Also they're making a new one called Minigore Zombies. The best way to cash in is by making the app universal so then people won't be split between buying a certain version.
@Keyeszx: Go
Thanks for the input- my responses:
1. I don't make 3D games stand-alone. Frankly, too much work and not enough experience. >_>
2. Never played MAG, although I just looked it up and 100 player battles sounds pretty epic (and pretty laggy)
3. I'm going to code this in gml for the sake of simplicity, since I'm very fluent in it. I'll worry about extra distributes if I ever finish the game, but I would be fine just selling it as a PC game via my own website. I can also use a client/server setup for DRM, so I don't need to worry too much about distribution at the moment.
I'm looking more for game design ideas than the technical side of things.
My recommendation is make something in Java. It is free, and you have 100% control over what you do. Make one of those simple "Farmville" type games or something.
Also, about the UDK and whatever. However powerful are those engines? I mean, could a game like, say WoW be made in them? Are there any actual professional video game companies that use an engine like that, that they didn't actually make? I've always considered the UDK to be sort of like flash. It is cool, but really expensive. Actually I just assume that it is expensive, I don't even know what it is, which is why I am asking :D (Because the idea of making money sounds interesting to me)
Great to be back and part of the community again!
"I want to create and sell a game, but don't know how"... guys! Try messing around opengl, it is a must-be for all new games, topdown 2d shooters too. How do you want to sell it? It is very hard, you must know how to do any marketing. Game should be playable, not necessarily complicated. Simpler idea is often simpler development, which implies better quality. UDK is relatively easy If you don't have any reason to pick something other, it should be good (and it is free while you don't want too much money for each copy). Anything is possible, but even great ideas need great motivation (look at pseudoform, cool project, but seems to be dead... ) and skill. Last is the easiest to achieve. Think twice and never give up.
Selling a "real" game is a job in itself. Its also far more difficult and the risks greater. At first thought the idea seems "fun", but when you really get into it, its serious business. 85% of people fail(or do average/poorly) at it.
Be realistic. Get a normal job, and work on something like this part time(as a hobby).
Right. As I just said before to keysz. I'm not asking for technical help, I'm asking for help brainstorming and coming up with ideas for interesting gameplay.
@EternalWraith: Go
I'm in school right now, so I want to use the free to to build (or at least start with) a game. School is essentially my job at the moment, and I am fully aware of the fact that making a game cannot replace a "real" job. But a successful game is still a nice little boost, and it's something I can do while I'm in the school year.
UDK can make an MMO and almost any type of game. It's not setup to host more than 64 players with dedicated servers but companies have found a workaround to get it to use their own servers. So an MMO would be a little more work but it's still possible, evident by DC Universe Online. Here are some more games that have been made using UDK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
A lot of companies actually use UDK to make their games because of how easy it is. Also it's not expensive at all. If you want to make a game in your free time it cost you $0 except the time to make it. Then when you're ready to start selling it cost you $0. But when you make revenue off your game it will cost $99. When you hit $50k you have to start paying royalties. But before you make the $50k you can buy a license with the money made from your game so you won't have to pay the royalties, or something along those lines. To name a few games made with UDK that aren't made by Epic(the makers of UDK): Batman Arkham City and Asylum, DC Universe Online, Borderlands, Infinity Blade(iOS game), Mass Effect 3, there's a lot. Here's a video showcasing some things in the UDK.
EDIT: Zelda I would say look through your thousand proof of concept maps you've made and combine two of them together. Maybe assassin's with nazi zombies or something like that. Please don't add zombies to your map unless it's actually zombie based. There's too many random zombie games.
This sounds like you're planning to release this as a stand-alone downloadable game, like for a PC? I don't want to go on about technical difficulties, but the mobile environment has a lot more support for people making/selling their own games. I think if you go for a PC game the buyer's expectations will be higher than a mobile game.
My personal preference is to conceptualize a game from the micro level and work my way out. The ideas you have here are very much a macro-level where you're considering the entire game as a general concept. I have been successful when thinking of small mechanics first and building around that, kind of like the small mechanics are the skeleton and then you grow some fatty game-tissue around it. When you think of a game as a general concept first, then you have to work down and try to figure out a way to squeeze some fun into the concept.
It sounds like you're most interested in doing some kind of top-down sort of game, since you mentioned both a top-down shooter and a real-time strategy. Ask some questions: What about that mode appeals to you? Does it just seem like a more manageable game to make, or are you specifically interested in this game type? Why are you interested? What will make the play of the game fun?
Just sayin', all my games have started as ideas on the micro game-mechanic level, and if those micro-concepts are fun enough then it is very easy to build a complete game around it.
You cannot make an actual MMO with UDK. Unreal Engine 3 and UDK are not the same thing. You might be able to work around it by having multiple game instances, but that might not be allowed by the EULA, and I think it might be a little advanced for a first game. There are many other, probably better suited, engines that have the capability of being used for an MMO than UDK.
Any MMO would be hard to do, especially if you're making a game specifically for getting some money. I'm guessing you don't have the funds to set up the server database that would be required, so you would be advised to stay away from that. In the event you want to make even a simple multiplayer game using peer to peer networks, you'll still require a master server to route connections. It would be much cheaper than having a dedicated array, but still might cause some complications for you if you've never done it before.
@Varine: Go
woah, no one mentioned MMO as being made. Someone just asked if the UDK was powerful enough. The UDK and UE3 are basically the same. Only difference is UE3 has assets and slightly more powerful stuff, I don't know the exact terms but this is what I found on the udk forums. Basically UE3 is more powerful and comes with assets to use since you paid for a license which makes sense. While UDK is used for free and comes with almost no assets since it's meant more for indie devs who are making their own content anyways. Also DC Universe Online and Blade and Soul would like a word with you about your faith in UDK/UE3 not making an MMO. UDK is built on top of UE3 anyways. The only difference is when you have UE3(by buying a license) you have access to the source code which means you can alter it all you want to make the MMO system work with your engine. Also UDK can do the same you'll just need to make some work arounds.
I am well aware of the differences between the two. UE3 has the source code. Which makes it infinitely more powerful as you can modify whatever you need to. Other than using DLLBind, which is extremely limited, you're limited to what is included in the UDK (Speedtree, Scaleform, and a few other things, can't remember all of them), which is the binary release of UE3.
Neither of those games use UDK; they both use UE3. As far as I'm aware, no one has developed a viable method of bypassing the player limitations for the UDK; as I said, it might not even be allowed. While UE3 is perfectly capable of an MMO, UDK is not. However we are not talking about UE3, because again I find it extremely unlikely he, or anyone discussing it for that matter, has the funds behind him to buy the license. So in short, no, it is not a viable engine to use for an MMO. As you would know if you read the many threads in the forums on people asking if they can use UDK to develop an MMO.
Wait, so the UE3 is just an incredibly jacked Galaxy Editor, that doesn't revolve around SC2? Remind me why I am modding SC2 and not making UE3 games again?
EDIT: Not here is my question. Why would I use Java? I mean, it has taken me 2 weeks just to write my basic 2D platform. I could be using the UDK, and already have a perfect 3D platform made for me. What are the downsides of using the UDK? I truly don't understand why anyone wouldn't use it. What is the point of making your own engine?
Great to be back and part of the community again!
Nazi zombie assassins FTW :D Still looking for ideas for THIS specific thing....
I sort of like top down because, when it comes to 2D games, you basically have A) Sidescrollers and B) Top Down. I feel top down allows for much more gameplay.
If I can't sell games without paying a huge price in UDK, I don't care about it. Sorry.
Why are you using Java for a game at all?
With your own engine you can design it to do exactly what you need. If you're only making one game, it really wouldn't make much sense to develop an entire engine though, when you can develop only the resources you need to use.
UDK has a 25% royalty after making $50,000, which I would be amazed if you did, and you have to display Epic's splash screen and I think Bink's splash screen if you use it. As to why everyone is promoting UDK specifically I have no idea; there are plenty of other engines. ShiVa is fairly friendly for new developers, Unity has a free version, C4 isn't too bad, albeit kind of weird. Lawmaker used to be a decent engine, I'm not sure if it's still being worked on though.
@Varine: Go
Anybody want to respond to the original post topic? About the game design & brainstorming? :D
I would like to request 1-2 of the following in your game...
1) Ninjas
2) Zombies
3) Aliens
4) Heroes
I would also like the Time Era to be changing...like from bc-ad tiers kinda game. :D
Not terribly; it makes very little sense to give you something of mine to sell. Besides you're not giving much to work with. We have no idea what it is you can and can't do, all we know is that you might want to do a top-down shooter and you want to do it online, and know how to use Game Maker, and don't want to do anything with 3D. And you want to sell it.
@Varine: Go
EXACTLY. That is my current plan :D
I'm actually looking for alternate game-types INSTEAD of a top-down shooter, to fit in with the idea for the metagame I provided.
Whatever though, not a big deal or anything. Suppose I should work on sc2 maps instead.
With solely 2D you're limited as you noted, although you're also limited in 3D. But not to top down or sidescroller games only; you can also work with isometric views, pseudo-3D (like the original Doom, although technically I believe that's isometric), and ASCII games (which could provide for some unique gameplay; I've been considering doing a 3D game solely using ASCII symbols, but likely won't get around to it), and others. The requirements for online gaming would be significantly less as there would be no where near as much information being passed around, but still would be there. From the suggestions provided I would recommend either isometric or pseudo-3D, as that would allow the most flexibility; I don't know what the online capabilities of Game Maker are (I wouldn't use it for a large scale multiplayer game though, as it is very slow), but it's quite capable of doing it.