In WC3 you can't tell an official new version of a map from a fake. Even now I could make a fake update to DotA and catch hundreds of suckers who don't download from the official site. There is no other way to verify the author in WC3.
In SC2, this is built into Battle.net. The only way you get your map "stolen" is if everyone who plays your map decides the other author makes your map better. Like, say, the switch from DotA to DotA Allstars.
You know why Blizzard added "map locking" to SC2? Because massive amounts of people bawww'd and wouldn't shut up until it was added. The "problem" that map locking is supposed to solve was solved already by the publishing system built into Battle.net.
For the sake of every SC2 player and modder, don't spam Blizzard to make a better locking feature. Please spam them with bug reports and feature requests that will actually make the game better.
Although you probably ought not to plot to spam Blizzard forums from this site at all. :V
Nah the battlent forum should be what its meant to be, a place for spamming
Jokes aside, map locking is definitely a features, even a damn good one for keeping the custom scene alive. They have their development planned out, which we do not know, that's why everyone is still whining for every features. Even though the publishing system solve stealing to some extent, the features we want currently does the following: (which we request/hope to do more)
- Prevent a locked map from being found/downloadable in the editor.
- Prevent a locked map from being opened by the editor.
- Prevent a locked map from being played locally by guest account (which directly means you need to pay for a valid sc2 account to play).
- Distributing a playable map that cannot be opened for hacking purpose.
- Make sure hacked map/stolen map does not spam their upload server and not competing with your own maps. (and now that you can pay $10 to have the exact name as the author, a slightly modified map name will pretty sure catch me playing from time to time)
Now that all of this do not working as intended. Do your "really" "not" want this feature ?
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Sun-tzu" People will think twice about sharing something controversial in a big forum as they know it's being read by many people including Blizzard. They will balance the pro and cons ... At the end the information will be of a greater quality.
If you let people be angry by deleting posts here, they are going to do extreme actions that have all the chances to be bad (example: making a program to rip the maps and spam Battle.net with ripped maps).
Its a good approach, I myself prefer to keep them close by bookmarking and registering when I have the chance on a related hacking website that I came across. If they sure think twice about posting a controversial topic is another problem, (if someone cant tell this is controversial or not) as I have never think of posting a tutorial about this even though I just know the exact process from bibendus a few days before (also in a constructive and not so tutorial style thread). If people really care about hacking map open, I'm sure they will post at places they are allowed no matter what.
If anyone bother to find the thread started by bibendus about this same problem, with the same instruction, it does not generate much negativity from the community, even though some of us discussed and tried it ourselves, just not in the way this was phrased as "supported" or "tutorial", or "map download". (On a side note If i'm doing a tutorials for this I probably upload a map by myself to battlenet and post an unlocked version of it here instead of taking any popular map for example. )
Prevent a locked map from being found/downloadable in the editor.
Logically impossible. Because: The map must be downloaded to be played by the game.
(Technically you could get around this with a massive change in how Battle.net works, which would massively increase bandwidth for Battle.net, and overall put more of a massive strain on the developers.)
Prevent a locked map from being opened by the editor.
Distributing a playable map that cannot be opened for hacking purpose.
Since all the data to play the game is stored in the map, someone could make an entirely new map editor that wouldn't care if non-critical files were missing. Someone could make an editor that doesn't load a map if the file "LolzMapIsLocked" exists in the map, but the Galaxy Editor would open it just fine. "Locking" in this manner can only be per-application.
Prevent a locked map from being played locally by guest account (which directly means you need to pay for a valid sc2 account to play).
This is a feature of the publishing system, not map locking. This feature applies to unlocked maps equally as it does to locked maps.
Make sure hacked map/stolen map does not spam their upload server
This cannot be helped. Anyone could spam their upload server with anything, because they have an upload server. They have an upload server so that they can control things like map name and author. Map locking has no bearing on this.
and not competing with your own maps.
Competition will exist anyway. If you make a tag map and I map a tag map and neither of us copied from each other, it stands to reason that one of our maps will be more popular than the other. Map locking does not "kill the competition."
(and now that you can pay $10 to have the exact name as the author, a slightly modified map name will pretty sure catch me playing from time to time)
Yeah. They really should make it so author names are completely unique. Otherwise they're just going to end up frustrating people.
Some of yours points I agree, but some of that you misunderstood my points
Quote:
Since all the data to play the game is stored in the map, someone could make an entirely new map editor that wouldn't care if non-critical files were missing. Someone could make an editor that doesn't load a map if the file "LolzMapIsLocked" exists in the map, but the Galaxy Editor would open it just fine. "Locking" in this manner can only be per-application.
If you have an editor that open a map with non critical file missing, then its the current shitty protection.(which is not my point) With a better system that is protected client and/or server side this should happen. If you managed to make a third party program that can emulate sc2 and open a map that only sc2 can load to play, it might break some moral grounds. And blizzard might talk to you on this matter
Quote:
This is a feature of the publishing system, not map locking. This feature applies to unlocked maps equally as it does to locked maps.
You really dont know how it work (or you might not even have a valid sc2 account to test this). Unlocked map can be found and play under guest account, while locked map couldn't. I have the most unstable internet to actually play guest account more than my account. Even if its not like this currently, I would love to have this feature.
Quote:
This cannot be helped. Anyone could spam their upload server with anything, because they have an upload server. They have an upload server so that they can control things like map name and author. Map locking has no bearing on this.
I don't mean on normal map spamming and similar map competing, variety is good, what I mean is that map with the same name as yours keep showing up every where, with slightly edited unit and such, taking gullible player to play it instead of your map. (which is the obvious case of war3 map hack and edit) Though hardcore hacker can hack open them anyway, there will definitely be less of them happening.
This falls under the, "let's pretend it never happened" situation which in the end, does us absolutely no good. You can only hide for so long...
You cannot hide it only for so long. You can hide it for very long. Eventually some people figure it out, but a good majority will never figure it out. It worked in Warcraft, that's what I know.
Why do the Police keep information about crimes from the public? Do they pretend it never happened? Or do they not want to unnecessarily alarm the public and tell the perpetrator how far they got catching him?
I never said that we should pretend nothing happened. But we also don't have to rub it into everyone's faces.
The aim of this post is to bestow an open version of the currently famous site SC2Mapster.com to every user.
Ever see a thread you want to learn more from but the original poster or a moderator locked it, preventing further converse over it?
(*really* sorry EternalWraith, this is in no way a call out to you, I'm just hoping you appreciate what I'm doing here is all ;) )
I strongly discourage thread-jacking so, please, use this for educational purposes ONLY.
It did not involve:
- GUI trigger reconstruction; I am not planning to create a tool for this in the future;
- any intentional changes to the normal function of the web site;
- serious reformatting, lack of time has prevented this;
- Any serious consideration that this is anything but an exposure of the hypocrisy of leaving the thread up.
Use this responsibly! I cannot regurgitate this enough: do NOT upload this post to other SC2mapster threads unless serious change to the post has occured, ie. where the post, in no shape or form, represents the original post. Ignoring my warnings will lead to possible banning by SC2Mapster mods who support map cracking, and if such event were to occur I hold no responsibility for such bans.
Regards,
BumpInTheNight
Unlocking a Locked SC2Mapster thread:
NOTE: Hopefully, creating this guide will ensure SC2Mapster's web developers increases its enthusiasm in updating its lock thread feature. It sure is lacking, compared to every other forum software on the internet.
1. Find a locked thread you would like to learn from by interacting with it further.
2. Find a post in the thread, then click the reply button associated with it, as seen here:
3. Insert your own educational modifications to the thread in the dialog box below.
4. Click the reply button at the bottom of the dialog box.
ED: By nuking this post or banning me, you are definitely exposing the hypocrisy. Please if you do, don't ban me :P
i could reveal a trick i found to get a better protection for locked maps if anyone want to know :D
If you do reveal it now the method to circumvent it may come back in seconds right after your posts, which is irony ... There are two sides for this and obviously both cant exists in mapster at the same time. From just the irony above, protector might be better off hide his secret somewhere else rather than public it here to have a chance of it not hacked immediately
We do acknowledge there is a bug that still allow some user to post to a locked thread, so in general a thread is tagged deleted or move to a thrash forum to prevent people from posting. Side effects include other people not having any other way to read the thread.
We do acknowledge there is a bug that still allow some user to post to a
locked thread, so in general a thread is tagged deleted or move to a
thrash forum to prevent people from posting. Side effects include other
people not having any other way to read the thread.
If a problem becomes too widespread, the simplest solution is to just shoot them all.
I just wanted to point out that no one really believes that you can hide the information forever. But, we can certainly delay the time it takes for this information to be widespread (and thus common knowledge). By doing so, we create a window of opportunity in which some sort of fix can appear that makes the secret irrelevant.
Cept blizz wont fix it unless its actually public knowledge..... Since they do intend to make a pay for platform. No developer is going to spend real resources on creating content that can be easily jacked.
I think I might make a site just for this thread called
The aim of this post is to bestow an open version of the currently famous site SC2Mapster.com to every user.
blah... blah.. blah.,..
We already know about it, and have known about it for quite some time now. Someone posted about it a while back. So prevent this from happening, we created a private forum for deleted posts.
Cool how this works... Someone finds a way around our current system, so we develop a new way to handle things to prevent this bypass. Now if we applied this logic to map locking, someone would've found a new method already. Zzzzing!
I just wanted to point out that no one really believes that you can hide the information forever. But, we can certainly delay the time it takes for this information to be widespread (and thus common knowledge). By doing so, we create a window of opportunity in which some sort of fix can appear that makes the secret irrelevant.
How? Are you forgetting that someone found it out a few days ago, which is what brought about this thread to begin with? 2 days from now, someone else will figure it out. 2 days after that, another person... And so on.
So you handle locked threads by pulling them out of existence entirely then eh? If only we map makers could just pull our maps out of existence and have them still serve their purpose. Well I've exhausted my avenues here, you and now Vjeux have made it clear you'd prefer to put all the locked maps on battle.net at greater risk and use them as leverage to try and make blizzard improve the locks yet won't even try to talk about it in their own forums. I'm done, I know you mean well...but this I just don't agree with. Laters, for now.
Btw I was that someone who posted about getting into a locked thread way back when, something about a very serius thread. Considering how long its taking for this site to just remove a *link* from locked thread's posts...I'm not holding my breath for blizzard to fix their own junk while this site continues to show wannabe crackers how to get around blizzard's locking method.
Cool how this works... Someone finds a way around our current system, so we develop a new way to handle things to prevent this bypass. Now if we applied this logic to map locking, someone would've found a new method already. Zzzzing!
Uhh then please go ahead and suggest a new method of locking.
I'd be very interested in how you (or anyone else) plan to lock a map in a way that still lets you publish the map through the editor after you've locked it.
I have a few ideas and one is worse than the next one :/
If you have an editor that open a map with non critical file missing, then its the current shitty protection.(which is not my point) With a better system that is protected client and/or server side this should happen. If you managed to make a third party program that can emulate sc2 and open a map that only sc2 can load to play, it might break some moral grounds. And blizzard might talk to you on this matter
Yes, but as I said, that'd require supreme re-engineering of Battle.net. If they were to make map solely server-side coding, the would have to ensure their servers can run arbitrary code without being compromised. It'd also put a massive strain on the servers. And like you said, if they closed up the system like this, all they would end up doing is encouraging hackers everywhere to make a better server-to-client layer. I don't think Blizzard wants to go up against an army of coders so blatantly like that. The purely client-side format of maps is really the best possible market they can maintain.
Unlocked map can be found and play under guest account, while locked map couldn't. [...] Even if its not like this currently, I would love to have this feature.
You'd like your perfectly functioning SC2 map client to not allow you to play a map?
Or let me put this in market form:
If someone were to make a perfectly functioning SC2 client, that had all the features of the official client, and also had more features than the official client, which would you prefer using? In actuality, people just make hacks that add functionality to the regular client.
Personally, when playing a map, I don't care if the author locked it. If I want to play it on the guest account, who is anyone to say I can't? You'd like to be restricted from playing a map as guest simply because the author doesn't want you opening it with the Galaxy Editor?
What I mean is that map with the same name as yours keep showing up every where, with slightly edited unit and such, taking gullible player to play it instead of your map.
They could get those same gullible users with a completely different knock-off too. Of course, once they start the game they'll notice that it is a knock-off, but who wants to bet they keep playing anyway? :P
Well I've exhausted my avenues here, you and now Vjeux have made it clear you'd prefer to put all the locked maps on battle.net at greater risk and use them as leverage to try and make blizzard improve the locks yet won't even try to talk about it in their own forums. I'm done, I know you mean well...but this I just don't agree with. Laters, for now.
Go ahead and make a thread, i'd love to discuss it wherever. Though, if everyone is coming here for the discussion, splitting it does no good >.>
Uhh then please go ahead and suggest a new method of locking.
I'd be very interested in how you (or anyone else) plan to lock a map in a way that still lets you publish the map through the editor after you've locked it.
I have a few ideas and one is worse than the next one :/
If I knew I wouldn't be advocating users to find a new method, :P.
@SmoothPorcupine: Go
Nah the battlent forum should be what its meant to be, a place for spamming
Jokes aside, map locking is definitely a features, even a damn good one for keeping the custom scene alive. They have their development planned out, which we do not know, that's why everyone is still whining for every features. Even though the publishing system solve stealing to some extent, the features we want currently does the following: (which we request/hope to do more)
- Prevent a locked map from being found/downloadable in the editor.
- Prevent a locked map from being opened by the editor.
- Prevent a locked map from being played locally by guest account (which directly means you need to pay for a valid sc2 account to play).
- Distributing a playable map that cannot be opened for hacking purpose.
- Make sure hacked map/stolen map does not spam their upload server and not competing with your own maps. (and now that you can pay $10 to have the exact name as the author, a slightly modified map name will pretty sure catch me playing from time to time)
Now that all of this do not working as intended. Do your "really" "not" want this feature ?
Its a good approach, I myself prefer to keep them close by bookmarking and registering when I have the chance on a related hacking website that I came across. If they sure think twice about posting a controversial topic is another problem, (if someone cant tell this is controversial or not) as I have never think of posting a tutorial about this even though I just know the exact process from bibendus a few days before (also in a constructive and not so tutorial style thread). If people really care about hacking map open, I'm sure they will post at places they are allowed no matter what.
If anyone bother to find the thread started by bibendus about this same problem, with the same instruction, it does not generate much negativity from the community, even though some of us discussed and tried it ourselves, just not in the way this was phrased as "supported" or "tutorial", or "map download". (On a side note If i'm doing a tutorials for this I probably upload a map by myself to battlenet and post an unlocked version of it here instead of taking any popular map for example. )
I'm pretty sure a lot of people have said this: There's a reason why authors lock their own maps.
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/general/general-chat/5375-my-map-has-been-stolen/?page=3#p54 has happened awhile ago. And with this cracking map program out in the public; there is a possibility that there will be more thieves out on the loose.
@SmoothPorcupine: Go
Some of yours points I agree, but some of that you misunderstood my points
If you have an editor that open a map with non critical file missing, then its the current shitty protection.(which is not my point) With a better system that is protected client and/or server side this should happen. If you managed to make a third party program that can emulate sc2 and open a map that only sc2 can load to play, it might break some moral grounds. And blizzard might talk to you on this matter
You really dont know how it work (or you might not even have a valid sc2 account to test this). Unlocked map can be found and play under guest account, while locked map couldn't. I have the most unstable internet to actually play guest account more than my account. Even if its not like this currently, I would love to have this feature.
I don't mean on normal map spamming and similar map competing, variety is good, what I mean is that map with the same name as yours keep showing up every where, with slightly edited unit and such, taking gullible player to play it instead of your map. (which is the obvious case of war3 map hack and edit) Though hardcore hacker can hack open them anyway, there will definitely be less of them happening.
You cannot hide it only for so long. You can hide it for very long. Eventually some people figure it out, but a good majority will never figure it out. It worked in Warcraft, that's what I know.
Why do the Police keep information about crimes from the public? Do they pretend it never happened? Or do they not want to unnecessarily alarm the public and tell the perpetrator how far they got catching him?
I never said that we should pretend nothing happened. But we also don't have to rub it into everyone's faces.
i could reveal a trick i found to get a better protection for locked maps if anyone want to know :D
The aim of this post is to bestow an open version of the currently famous site SC2Mapster.com to every user.
Ever see a thread you want to learn more from but the original poster or a moderator locked it, preventing further converse over it?
(*really* sorry EternalWraith, this is in no way a call out to you, I'm just hoping you appreciate what I'm doing here is all ;) )
I strongly discourage thread-jacking so, please, use this for educational purposes ONLY.
It did not involve:
- GUI trigger reconstruction; I am not planning to create a tool for this in the future;
- any intentional changes to the normal function of the web site;
- serious reformatting, lack of time has prevented this;
- Any serious consideration that this is anything but an exposure of the hypocrisy of leaving the thread up.
Use this responsibly! I cannot regurgitate this enough: do NOT upload this post to other SC2mapster threads unless serious change to the post has occured, ie. where the post, in no shape or form, represents the original post. Ignoring my warnings will lead to possible banning by SC2Mapster mods who support map cracking, and if such event were to occur I hold no responsibility for such bans.
Regards,
BumpInTheNight
Unlocking a Locked SC2Mapster thread:
NOTE: Hopefully, creating this guide will ensure SC2Mapster's web developers increases its enthusiasm in updating its lock thread feature. It sure is lacking, compared to every other forum software on the internet.
1. Find a locked thread you would like to learn from by interacting with it further.
2. Find a post in the thread, then click the reply button associated with it, as seen here:
3. Insert your own educational modifications to the thread in the dialog box below.
4. Click the reply button at the bottom of the dialog box.
ED: By nuking this post or banning me, you are definitely exposing the hypocrisy. Please if you do, don't ban me :P
If you do reveal it now the method to circumvent it may come back in seconds right after your posts, which is irony ... There are two sides for this and obviously both cant exists in mapster at the same time. From just the irony above, protector might be better off hide his secret somewhere else rather than public it here to have a chance of it not hacked immediately
@BumpInTheNight: Go
We do acknowledge there is a bug that still allow some user to post to a locked thread, so in general a thread is tagged deleted or move to a thrash forum to prevent people from posting. Side effects include other people not having any other way to read the thread.
@BumpInTheNight: Go
I lol'd :P
If a problem becomes too widespread, the simplest solution is to just shoot them all.
I just wanted to point out that no one really believes that you can hide the information forever. But, we can certainly delay the time it takes for this information to be widespread (and thus common knowledge). By doing so, we create a window of opportunity in which some sort of fix can appear that makes the secret irrelevant.
@Karawasa: Go
Cept blizz wont fix it unless its actually public knowledge..... Since they do intend to make a pay for platform. No developer is going to spend real resources on creating content that can be easily jacked.
I think I might make a site just for this thread called
www.SC2mapcracking.com
sc2mapcracking.com is available! Just €8.61*/yr
We already know about it, and have known about it for quite some time now. Someone posted about it a while back. So prevent this from happening, we created a private forum for deleted posts.
Cool how this works... Someone finds a way around our current system, so we develop a new way to handle things to prevent this bypass. Now if we applied this logic to map locking, someone would've found a new method already. Zzzzing!
How? Are you forgetting that someone found it out a few days ago, which is what brought about this thread to begin with? 2 days from now, someone else will figure it out. 2 days after that, another person... And so on.
@Sixen: Go
So you handle locked threads by pulling them out of existence entirely then eh? If only we map makers could just pull our maps out of existence and have them still serve their purpose. Well I've exhausted my avenues here, you and now Vjeux have made it clear you'd prefer to put all the locked maps on battle.net at greater risk and use them as leverage to try and make blizzard improve the locks yet won't even try to talk about it in their own forums. I'm done, I know you mean well...but this I just don't agree with. Laters, for now.
Btw I was that someone who posted about getting into a locked thread way back when, something about a very serius thread. Considering how long its taking for this site to just remove a *link* from locked thread's posts...I'm not holding my breath for blizzard to fix their own junk while this site continues to show wannabe crackers how to get around blizzard's locking method.
Uhh then please go ahead and suggest a new method of locking.
I'd be very interested in how you (or anyone else) plan to lock a map in a way that still lets you publish the map through the editor after you've locked it.
I have a few ideas and one is worse than the next one :/
Go ahead and make a thread, i'd love to discuss it wherever. Though, if everyone is coming here for the discussion, splitting it does no good >.>
If I knew I wouldn't be advocating users to find a new method, :P.
Wow this is all very eye opening, i released my map the other day publicly with locked turn on with no idea it could be picked apart.