You do know what I wrote was sarcasm right...?? drawing a smiley face on the mona lisa is something not to do... AKA ruining a painting. In our case, a map...
Steal a map-- take someone else's map. The author no longer has a copy of it because it has been stolen
Infringe a copyright or use another's intellectual property, aka "borrowing another's work"-- Copy someone else's work and claim it (implicitly) as one's own.
Pretty much anything digital is dealing with the latter.
'Steal' is an attractive word for an industry that wants to equate not buying their products with being raped in prison.
While it's not quite as bad as stealing a car it would still make you an asshole if you put your name anywhere on someones map without permission. Even if you just did a small edit to fix it the only person with the right to change it whatsoever is the owner.
If they made you just get a fine for stealing cars would you be ok with it? No because you don't take other peoples shit. The golden rule people.
I've been criticized heavily for 'stealing' a map or plastering my name on a map that i've edited and popularized. I actually went through the necessary steps in getting the authors permission to edit his map. Also, that same author was the one that taught me everything on map editing back in Starcraft 1. So I've encountered those situations before. Having good intentions or not, editing someone's map is stealing and it is wrong. It is also unnecessary to show any kind of hostility towards the map stealer. The damage is done and there is nothing you can do.
Alongside with map stealing comes map evolutions. Some maps that have tons potential deviations are eventually made and you will find yourself playing different versions of the same map 'idea'. Would you call that map stealing? How about all those Cat and mouse, cannon D map versions. The first author who created the cat and mouse didn't want different maps however, the map itself is really easy to recreate and mappers found many ideas to implement on the CnM to keep it fresh.
So there is really a blur line between map stealing reinvention and pure original creation. What is funny is that I would browse playdota.com forums and read the many posts like "League of Legends is a fail clone" "Heroes of Newerth is a crime". DotA evolved from a STARCRAFT map, Aeon of strife. So what gives that community to declare things clones when they are playing just a evolved version of a blizzard map? (Don't get me wrong, DotA is really fun)
The answer is mutual agreement to a map genre. Once Starcraft and Age of Empires 2 came out, many Tower Defense maps were made, mainly because that was what you can make creatively at that time. Blizzard then creates an official TD map and publishes it with Warcraft and then you eventually see tons of flash made TD game version inevitably having its own genre.
Okay back to the original post/thread. Taking a map idea and changing IS stealing and it IS wrong but inadvertently when there is many fun variations it becomes a certain group of maps (ie map genre). Some cases fit this general trend (TD maps) which we all don't care. And in some cases its when that unique map published like an distinct RPG or RP and someone copies the EXACT same one and adds 99999 minerals to player one =/
im stealing an idea from an original starcraft custom game. but im building it up from scratch. is that stealing? (Coincidentally, since im also using it to learn map making im using all the original unit values for now:})
I think it all depends, if the map has a bug that the maker doesn't know how to fix, i think he'll be happy that someone fixed it for him, but i guess at times, when some modifications make the map more entertaining (and at critical times, entertaining) and people begin to play the modified version because it's cooler, i can see the maker getting upset, so i think at times it's better to have a word with the maker to avoid problems, but i don't think that is map stealing unless whoever edits it removes the original author and gives himsef full credit for the map.
im stealing an idea from an original starcraft custom game. but im building it up from scratch. is that stealing? (Coincidentally, since im also using it to learn map making im using all the original unit values for now:})
That's not stealing at all. Stealing is just taking someone else's work and slapping your name on/publishing. Similar maps just create more competition for each other. I guess a good comparison would be televisions, there's a ton of brands that are all competing for the best one. If Sony stole the blueprints for one of Samsung's TV's and just slapped their brand name on it though that would be equivalent to stealing.
Someone did it to me, and I can tell you it sux. They re-published "StarBall" a map I worked hard on, and renamed it "Football", with them as the author. They didn't even change anything.
To be honest I wouldn't be so peeved if they had kept the name, but now the little exposure my map does get is now split between two names keeping it even lower on bnet's faulty custom map list then it should be.
put all the custom data in a mod, they steal the map they just get the texture..rename your mod and rerelease they just have a blank map that calls for a mod that doesn't exist...if they hack your mod (i'm not sure how blizzard stores mods in files) and release it as their own then it will be harder for them to duplicate your uniqueness....make your mod better and better to compete with your thieves (add more map variations since it is a mod)...coke is still better than pepsi IMO
It's like obtaining Blizzard's Starcraft II game programming, import a WoW model, sticking your name in the credit, and then selling it as your own copy.
Personally I'm a developer coming from a predominately open source world (web development). So here's my philosophy. Map makers/modders/etc. did not make Starcraft 2. They/we don't own it nor the rights to it nor have the ability to sell maps or mods to make money. IF Blizzard wanted us to make money, they'd have a market and there'd be a good protection system in place. So those who were interested in keeping their maps secure because they were going to make money, they could. However, that's just not the case.
So I believe in open source.
Especially in a situation like this. The very first game I ever modded was Duke Nukem and I freely distributed the mod. There wasn't exactly "map info" to get credit for it so it was just a text file and as it got adapted, people kindly attributed proper authors...To the best of their knowledge at least.
So that said. I think it sucks for someone to take credit for a mod or map. I think people should accredit the original authors.
I'm also a graphic design so I completely sympathize with creative credit.
However, there isn't really anything that can be done and just because someone has their map/mod "stolen" (again, technically there's no ownership other than creative ownership) doesn't mean everyone should stop sharing. Open source is good. SHARE. ...Just accredit too and thank too.
Personally I'm a developer coming from a predominately open source world (web development). So here's my philosophy. Map makers/modders/etc. did not make Starcraft 2. They/we don't own it nor the rights to it nor have the ability to sell maps or mods to make money. IF Blizzard wanted us to make money, they'd have a market and there'd be a good protection system in place. So those who were interested in keeping their maps secure because they were going to make money, they could. However, that's just not the case.
So I believe in open source. Especially in a situation like this. The very first game I ever modded was Duke Nukem and I freely distributed the mod. There wasn't exactly "map info" to get credit for it so it was just a text file and as it got adapted, people kindly attributed proper authors...To the best of their knowledge at least.
So that said. I think it sucks for someone to take credit for a mod or map. I think people should accredit the original authors. I'm also a graphic design so I completely sympathize with creative credit.
However, there isn't really anything that can be done and just because someone has their map/mod "stolen" (again, technically there's no ownership other than creative ownership) doesn't mean everyone should stop sharing. Open source is good. SHARE. ...Just accredit too and thank too.
Well, the people that steal maps, dont credit. Obviously. I mean, why would they;p?.
Open source is also pretty cool, but I dont think it works well here;p. Developing maps take a very long time. Why should anyone share?, If I put 1000 hours into something, I should consider sharing with someone else?. Even if they do "thank me" and...accredit me? for my own map?. Lol. Never. Thats absurd. Unless its some type of learning resource.
The perfect example from SC2 was Red Circle TD. One day someone changed map name to Blue Circle TD, prices for upgrades were lowered, terrain textures were modified. He just forgot to modify the map name displayed ingame lol. I didn't even check the one called Green Circle TD, the image description looked totally the same ...
So that said. I think it sucks for someone to take credit for a mod or map. I think people should accredit the original authors. I'm also a graphic design so I completely sympathize with creative credit.
I too believe in Open Source. I share my knowledge and maps and I don't have problems when people re-use parts of it or learn from it.
What I do have a problem with is people taking others work, painting it blue and calling it their own. But that is what happens.
PS: Oh, and I think the reason Blizzard didn't give us a good protection is that they just don't f'ing care. They just can't be bothered to put so much effort and money into means of protection.
@Nigle: Go
I understand your good intentions in your first post. And you probably did make the maps more fun.
Maybe its just me with a white and black attitude towards this. I could never steal someone else work or modify their work without their permission.
You do know what I wrote was sarcasm right...?? drawing a smiley face on the mona lisa is something not to do... AKA ruining a painting. In our case, a map...
Just making sure..
Definitions:
Steal a map-- take someone else's map. The author no longer has a copy of it because it has been stolen
Infringe a copyright or use another's intellectual property, aka "borrowing another's work"-- Copy someone else's work and claim it (implicitly) as one's own.
Pretty much anything digital is dealing with the latter.
'Steal' is an attractive word for an industry that wants to equate not buying their products with being raped in prison.
I think this thread needs a proper ending. So here it is.
My little ones.... Drugs are bad and so is stealing. Dont do either one, Do good in school and dont get in trouble.
@Nigle: Go
While it's not quite as bad as stealing a car it would still make you an asshole if you put your name anywhere on someones map without permission. Even if you just did a small edit to fix it the only person with the right to change it whatsoever is the owner.
If they made you just get a fine for stealing cars would you be ok with it? No because you don't take other peoples shit. The golden rule people.
@Molsterr: Go
I've been criticized heavily for 'stealing' a map or plastering my name on a map that i've edited and popularized. I actually went through the necessary steps in getting the authors permission to edit his map. Also, that same author was the one that taught me everything on map editing back in Starcraft 1. So I've encountered those situations before. Having good intentions or not, editing someone's map is stealing and it is wrong. It is also unnecessary to show any kind of hostility towards the map stealer. The damage is done and there is nothing you can do.
Alongside with map stealing comes map evolutions. Some maps that have tons potential deviations are eventually made and you will find yourself playing different versions of the same map 'idea'. Would you call that map stealing? How about all those Cat and mouse, cannon D map versions. The first author who created the cat and mouse didn't want different maps however, the map itself is really easy to recreate and mappers found many ideas to implement on the CnM to keep it fresh.
So there is really a blur line between map stealing reinvention and pure original creation. What is funny is that I would browse playdota.com forums and read the many posts like "League of Legends is a fail clone" "Heroes of Newerth is a crime". DotA evolved from a STARCRAFT map, Aeon of strife. So what gives that community to declare things clones when they are playing just a evolved version of a blizzard map? (Don't get me wrong, DotA is really fun)
The answer is mutual agreement to a map genre. Once Starcraft and Age of Empires 2 came out, many Tower Defense maps were made, mainly because that was what you can make creatively at that time. Blizzard then creates an official TD map and publishes it with Warcraft and then you eventually see tons of flash made TD game version inevitably having its own genre.
Okay back to the original post/thread. Taking a map idea and changing IS stealing and it IS wrong but inadvertently when there is many fun variations it becomes a certain group of maps (ie map genre). Some cases fit this general trend (TD maps) which we all don't care. And in some cases its when that unique map published like an distinct RPG or RP and someone copies the EXACT same one and adds 99999 minerals to player one =/
im stealing an idea from an original starcraft custom game. but im building it up from scratch. is that stealing? (Coincidentally, since im also using it to learn map making im using all the original unit values for now:})
@torrasqu: Go
shoot credits to the orginal game creator in your load screen, your golden.
@QueenGambit: Go Bravo Queen
I think it all depends, if the map has a bug that the maker doesn't know how to fix, i think he'll be happy that someone fixed it for him, but i guess at times, when some modifications make the map more entertaining (and at critical times, entertaining) and people begin to play the modified version because it's cooler, i can see the maker getting upset, so i think at times it's better to have a word with the maker to avoid problems, but i don't think that is map stealing unless whoever edits it removes the original author and gives himsef full credit for the map.
That's not stealing at all. Stealing is just taking someone else's work and slapping your name on/publishing. Similar maps just create more competition for each other. I guess a good comparison would be televisions, there's a ton of brands that are all competing for the best one. If Sony stole the blueprints for one of Samsung's TV's and just slapped their brand name on it though that would be equivalent to stealing.
@QueenGambit: Go
just wondering, why are you replying to me? that had nothing to do with my post =P
@Rizaun: Go no idea why i reply lol
Someone did it to me, and I can tell you it sux. They re-published "StarBall" a map I worked hard on, and renamed it "Football", with them as the author. They didn't even change anything.
To be honest I wouldn't be so peeved if they had kept the name, but now the little exposure my map does get is now split between two names keeping it even lower on bnet's faulty custom map list then it should be.
put all the custom data in a mod, they steal the map they just get the texture..rename your mod and rerelease they just have a blank map that calls for a mod that doesn't exist...if they hack your mod (i'm not sure how blizzard stores mods in files) and release it as their own then it will be harder for them to duplicate your uniqueness....make your mod better and better to compete with your thieves (add more map variations since it is a mod)...coke is still better than pepsi IMO
Modifying anothers property is wrong no matter how you look at it. But I guess that people can make use of features in a map without stealing...
It's like obtaining Blizzard's Starcraft II game programming, import a WoW model, sticking your name in the credit, and then selling it as your own copy.
Personally I'm a developer coming from a predominately open source world (web development). So here's my philosophy. Map makers/modders/etc. did not make Starcraft 2. They/we don't own it nor the rights to it nor have the ability to sell maps or mods to make money. IF Blizzard wanted us to make money, they'd have a market and there'd be a good protection system in place. So those who were interested in keeping their maps secure because they were going to make money, they could. However, that's just not the case.
So I believe in open source. Especially in a situation like this. The very first game I ever modded was Duke Nukem and I freely distributed the mod. There wasn't exactly "map info" to get credit for it so it was just a text file and as it got adapted, people kindly attributed proper authors...To the best of their knowledge at least.
So that said. I think it sucks for someone to take credit for a mod or map. I think people should accredit the original authors. I'm also a graphic design so I completely sympathize with creative credit.
However, there isn't really anything that can be done and just because someone has their map/mod "stolen" (again, technically there's no ownership other than creative ownership) doesn't mean everyone should stop sharing. Open source is good. SHARE. ...Just accredit too and thank too.
Well, the people that steal maps, dont credit. Obviously. I mean, why would they;p?.
Open source is also pretty cool, but I dont think it works well here;p. Developing maps take a very long time. Why should anyone share?, If I put 1000 hours into something, I should consider sharing with someone else?. Even if they do "thank me" and...accredit me? for my own map?. Lol. Never. Thats absurd. Unless its some type of learning resource.
The perfect example from SC2 was Red Circle TD. One day someone changed map name to Blue Circle TD, prices for upgrades were lowered, terrain textures were modified. He just forgot to modify the map name displayed ingame lol. I didn't even check the one called Green Circle TD, the image description looked totally the same ...
I too believe in Open Source. I share my knowledge and maps and I don't have problems when people re-use parts of it or learn from it.
What I do have a problem with is people taking others work, painting it blue and calling it their own. But that is what happens.
PS: Oh, and I think the reason Blizzard didn't give us a good protection is that they just don't f'ing care. They just can't be bothered to put so much effort and money into means of protection.