Hey all, long time no see. I've been tinkering in the editor trying to recreate the Alpha Colossus weapon; I'm reasonably certain I've got the effect that I want under control, but setting up the actors is another story.
For anyone who doesn't remember the colossus 7 years ago (and why would you?) the original incarnation featured a single targeted beam, that swept from target to target and dealt splash damage along the way.
I want to recreate essentially this effect, with the aim that it's set up so sweeping the beam manually across groups of units will do higher DPS than focusing target to target.
~Preamble over~
So far, I have a colossus with a dummy hangar effect, modelled after the Carrier. It shoots one interceptor-like-unit with a melee range attack, and an aura behaviour that causes additional splash damage. This works, the Colossus can focus a unit and move the "beam impact dummy unit" (BIDU) to new targets, etc.
What I can't seem to figure out is generating a beam that flows from the Colossus to the BIDU. I've created a second dummy attack based on the Sentry Beam, and modified the beam actor's Hosting: Host Impact field, but no matter what I set it to it seems to still default back to impacting on the target actor, instead of the interceptor2 actor.
Does anyone know the most effective way to pull this off? Or if I should do it a different way than a dummy beam attack? I also seem to be having a problem with the Colossus not wanting to use both attacks at once, except at certain ranges. And I also want the turret to always face the Interceptor, but I'm having problems figuring that out.
I would use a Modify Unit effect to make the turret face the target (like the cyclone). I would then use this effect under the release? effect of the Arm Magazine ability. That effect could then be used to determine the impact location of the beam.
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So I've been examining the Cyclone effect (which, btw, is way more complex than expected) and I think I'm generally meandering in the right direction but I am now at a definite loss.
The Cyclone ability uses a simple beam actor with the Host Impact fields set to:
Actor::Implicit
Scope::Scope Target
Subject::Alias._Unit
And this works fine, I've got lasers firing at my target, but if I change any parameters it appears to break the actor completely.
I've tried setting Effect to the magazine effect which launches the interceptor, I've tried changing subject to the interceptor actor explicitly, and I've tried most if not all of the scope options.
How do I need to set this up to have my beam host impact be on the interceptor?
You would need: Actor::Actor Find if you are using an effect as a reference for the scope.
Issue is the launch magazine effect only targets the caster. Carriers just use it so the weapon and attack ability can guide the Arm Magazine to the attack target. Rather use the effect used as the Release effect of the Arm Magazine ability.
Would it not be easier to just have a channelled weapon that uses a Create Unit effect and Issue Order to make the created unit "attack" the target of the colossus.
<<quote 2864920="">>
You would need: Actor::Actor Find if you are using an effect as a reference for the scope.
Issue is the launch magazine effect only targets the caster. Carriers just use it so the weapon and attack ability can guide the Arm Magazine to the attack target. Rather use the effect used as the Release effect of the Arm Magazine ability.
Would it not be easier to just have a channelled weapon that uses a Create Unit effect and Issue Order to make the created unit "attack" the target of the colossus.
<</quote>>
Alright, I have a working effect firing from the 'release' field in the arm magazine ability, but using Find Actor and effect I made as scope, the beam attachment still only seems to work when it can resolve the Colossus. I've just been trying the different scopes under the effect, with alias set to _UnitSmall to search for the Interceptor, but only attaching back to the Colossus will show a beam.
For additional context I currently have the launch host set to sopWeaponRight, and the impact set to sopOrigin. I don't know if that affects the ability to target the interceptor or not.
I also have confirmed the effect is targeting the interceptor; as it runs a basic speed buff. So, looks like I'm getting closer :)
Also,
The latter option may be easier for the bare bones implementation, but there's a few things that attracted me to the dummy-magazine idea, and I don't know if it would be easier or harder to do them the channelled weapon way.
First, I want the behaviour of the interceptor launching and returning to remain intact. Pretty sure I could recreate that through more issue order effects but it's already there with the magazine.
Second, I want the beam to behave realistically like a light beam. I plan on changing the speed of the dummy interceptor through behaviours based on the distance it has from the Colossus. The Colossus itself has a much slower moving turret than the stock model, so when it re-targets at 12 range vs. 6 range vs. 3 range, the speed on the impact point of the beam will vary noticeably, and this effect needs to stay consistent when there are no targets and the beam is sweeping back to the Colossus as in ( 1 ).
Third, given ( 2 ) there will be a 'sweet spot' range where movement speed of the Colossus will be higher than that of the ammo unit; if you're walking the Colossus backwards from the target it's attacking without allowing the magazine recall, I want the ammo unit to stay trailing behind with no objective other than returning to the hangar. The effect will look like the Colossus walking backwards, dragging the thermal lance behind.
Not to say these aren't all possible with create unit/issue order, but each of the points seems to make it more complicated, and the last one is something I especially wouldn't even know where to start with. All of them are pretty natural built in behaviour for magazine units though.
Keep it coming though, the input has been very welcome :) I only realised upon re-reading that you had to repeat yourself, sorry about that.
There is always a slightly more hacky method. When inside the magazine ammo units gain the hidden flag which allows them to be targeted via a Search Area effect with 0 radius. This could allow a connection between the colossus via a buff on the caster that then applies a second buff to the ammo unit via the search. The buff on the ammo unit is disabled when the unit is hidden but when activated creates the beam actor which will then be able to use the caster and target of the Apply Behavior effect for the launch and impact hosts of the beam.
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Thankfully got it working without having to go that route!
Release effect that targets the interceptor applies a persistent, which creates a beam actor, then I use Implicit:Implicit _Unit for the impact host, and Implicit:Scope Caster _Unit for the launch.
Which sounds more or less the same as what I was trying above, but after many hours of banging my head I tried creating the actor from the Interceptor's actor, instead of the Colossus'.
I got this working like one year age. I used the Create Unit, target it and make it move to the target method. The thing is that I complicated myself so much as I wanted it to be like the real Alpha Colossuse. The weapon casts for a set of seconds (I think I had it for 10) and retargets upon killing the main target, going for the closest one. The thing is that the beam originally also did damage while moving so I had that to. The weapon lasted for 10 secs of until there were no valid targets alive. Now, with the Turret targeting thing is quite easier cuz that made me be on a really big problem, as it took me so long to get it working too. You can have abilities on units with turrets with properly targeting. I had the weapon used an ability for making things easier in terms on the lasting of the weapon itself.
I ended up using the release effect to apply a behaviour to the interceptor, which is removed when the Interceptor becomes hidden; definitely inspired by the above mention of them acquiring hidden when holstered.
So that's more or less the entire graphical effect done, now onto the splash aura and differential speed buffs. I'm sure I'm going to have problems with the latter, so I'll just leave this thread opened for now...
Plan for splash is a further periodic effect on the same behaviour, and for the speed I plan on stacking a series of concentric auras around the Colossus.
I would just use a single Damage effect with splash on the ammo unit behaviour. For the Speed I would use the release effect to apply 2-3 buffs that adjust speed that are validated by Location Range validators based on distance from caster.
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Quote from DrSuperEvil:
I would just use a single Damage effect with splash on the ammo unit behaviour. For the Speed I would use the release effect to apply 2-3 buffs that adjust speed that are validated by Location Range validators based on distance from caster.
Did just that for splash damage, but as I expected I got a bit lost on the speed debuff. To make it a smooth accel/decel I'm actually doing about 8 regions but for simplicity sake here, we'll use one.
I'm not quite sure I understand the way you're suggesting--would that be a buff per location range validator, all stacked on the Interceptor?
The way I tried to do it initially is a search-area that applies buffs from the Colossus with multiple ranges. I have it only targeting the dummy interceptors, but I can't figure out how to exclude the interceptors from other Colossi in the search. Is there a way to do that?
Hey all, long time no see. I've been tinkering in the editor trying to recreate the Alpha Colossus weapon; I'm reasonably certain I've got the effect that I want under control, but setting up the actors is another story.
For anyone who doesn't remember the colossus 7 years ago (and why would you?) the original incarnation featured a single targeted beam, that swept from target to target and dealt splash damage along the way.
I want to recreate essentially this effect, with the aim that it's set up so sweeping the beam manually across groups of units will do higher DPS than focusing target to target.
~Preamble over~
So far, I have a colossus with a dummy hangar effect, modelled after the Carrier. It shoots one interceptor-like-unit with a melee range attack, and an aura behaviour that causes additional splash damage. This works, the Colossus can focus a unit and move the "beam impact dummy unit" (BIDU) to new targets, etc.
What I can't seem to figure out is generating a beam that flows from the Colossus to the BIDU. I've created a second dummy attack based on the Sentry Beam, and modified the beam actor's Hosting: Host Impact field, but no matter what I set it to it seems to still default back to impacting on the target actor, instead of the interceptor2 actor.
Does anyone know the most effective way to pull this off? Or if I should do it a different way than a dummy beam attack? I also seem to be having a problem with the Colossus not wanting to use both attacks at once, except at certain ranges. And I also want the turret to always face the Interceptor, but I'm having problems figuring that out.
Halp.
I would use a Modify Unit effect to make the turret face the target (like the cyclone). I would then use this effect under the release? effect of the Arm Magazine ability. That effect could then be used to determine the impact location of the beam.
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Good tip on the Cyclone, I forgot it does that. I'm post a more detailed breakdown once I try that out.
So I've been examining the Cyclone effect (which, btw, is way more complex than expected) and I think I'm generally meandering in the right direction but I am now at a definite loss.
The Cyclone ability uses a simple beam actor with the Host Impact fields set to:
Actor::Implicit
Scope::Scope Target
Subject::Alias._Unit
And this works fine, I've got lasers firing at my target, but if I change any parameters it appears to break the actor completely.
I've tried setting Effect to the magazine effect which launches the interceptor, I've tried changing subject to the interceptor actor explicitly, and I've tried most if not all of the scope options.
How do I need to set this up to have my beam host impact be on the interceptor?
You would need: Actor::Actor Find if you are using an effect as a reference for the scope.
Issue is the launch magazine effect only targets the caster. Carriers just use it so the weapon and attack ability can guide the Arm Magazine to the attack target. Rather use the effect used as the Release effect of the Arm Magazine ability.
Would it not be easier to just have a channelled weapon that uses a Create Unit effect and Issue Order to make the created unit "attack" the target of the colossus.
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<<quote 2864920="">>
You would need: Actor::Actor Find if you are using an effect as a reference for the scope.
Issue is the launch magazine effect only targets the caster. Carriers just use it so the weapon and attack ability can guide the Arm Magazine to the attack target. Rather use the effect used as the Release effect of the Arm Magazine ability.
Would it not be easier to just have a channelled weapon that uses a Create Unit effect and Issue Order to make the created unit "attack" the target of the colossus.
<</quote>>
Alright, I have a working effect firing from the 'release' field in the arm magazine ability, but using Find Actor and effect I made as scope, the beam attachment still only seems to work when it can resolve the Colossus. I've just been trying the different scopes under the effect, with alias set to _UnitSmall to search for the Interceptor, but only attaching back to the Colossus will show a beam.
For additional context I currently have the launch host set to sopWeaponRight, and the impact set to sopOrigin. I don't know if that affects the ability to target the interceptor or not.
I also have confirmed the effect is targeting the interceptor; as it runs a basic speed buff. So, looks like I'm getting closer :)
Also,
The latter option may be easier for the bare bones implementation, but there's a few things that attracted me to the dummy-magazine idea, and I don't know if it would be easier or harder to do them the channelled weapon way.
First, I want the behaviour of the interceptor launching and returning to remain intact. Pretty sure I could recreate that through more issue order effects but it's already there with the magazine.
Second, I want the beam to behave realistically like a light beam. I plan on changing the speed of the dummy interceptor through behaviours based on the distance it has from the Colossus. The Colossus itself has a much slower moving turret than the stock model, so when it re-targets at 12 range vs. 6 range vs. 3 range, the speed on the impact point of the beam will vary noticeably, and this effect needs to stay consistent when there are no targets and the beam is sweeping back to the Colossus as in ( 1 ).
Third, given ( 2 ) there will be a 'sweet spot' range where movement speed of the Colossus will be higher than that of the ammo unit; if you're walking the Colossus backwards from the target it's attacking without allowing the magazine recall, I want the ammo unit to stay trailing behind with no objective other than returning to the hangar. The effect will look like the Colossus walking backwards, dragging the thermal lance behind.
Not to say these aren't all possible with create unit/issue order, but each of the points seems to make it more complicated, and the last one is something I especially wouldn't even know where to start with. All of them are pretty natural built in behaviour for magazine units though.
Keep it coming though, the input has been very welcome :) I only realised upon re-reading that you had to repeat yourself, sorry about that.
There is always a slightly more hacky method. When inside the magazine ammo units gain the hidden flag which allows them to be targeted via a Search Area effect with 0 radius. This could allow a connection between the colossus via a buff on the caster that then applies a second buff to the ammo unit via the search. The buff on the ammo unit is disabled when the unit is hidden but when activated creates the beam actor which will then be able to use the caster and target of the Apply Behavior effect for the launch and impact hosts of the beam.
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Thankfully got it working without having to go that route!
Release effect that targets the interceptor applies a persistent, which creates a beam actor, then I use Implicit:Implicit _Unit for the impact host, and Implicit:Scope Caster _Unit for the launch.
Which sounds more or less the same as what I was trying above, but after many hours of banging my head I tried creating the actor from the Interceptor's actor, instead of the Colossus'.
So not an independent actor?
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I got this working like one year age. I used the Create Unit, target it and make it move to the target method. The thing is that I complicated myself so much as I wanted it to be like the real Alpha Colossuse. The weapon casts for a set of seconds (I think I had it for 10) and retargets upon killing the main target, going for the closest one. The thing is that the beam originally also did damage while moving so I had that to. The weapon lasted for 10 secs of until there were no valid targets alive. Now, with the Turret targeting thing is quite easier cuz that made me be on a really big problem, as it took me so long to get it working too. You can have abilities on units with turrets with properly targeting. I had the weapon used an ability for making things easier in terms on the lasting of the weapon itself.
Quote from DrSuperEvil:
So not an independent actor?
Just the actors for the Colossus, the Interceptor, and each beam.
I don't have the other stuff I mentioned up there working yet though. So probably more to come.
I mean are you using other actors to create it or is it being created by its own events.
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so i don't have a clue what is this colossus weapon from alpha version. If you have a good video which clearly shows how it works i might help.
Look at the original SC2 footage from blizzard. It shows off zerglings, the old mothership (yes it could freeze missiles) and the colossus.
At around 8 mins is the colossus.
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Oh, sorry. The interceptor actor creates the beam actors when the release effect starts.
However, I may have celebrated too early. Now I can't get the beam actors to die when the interceptor returns.
Is there a quick and easy way to figure that out right from the actors?
My current plan is to use a behaviour that lasts until the interceptor is hidden, and destroy when the behaviour ends... but I feel this is inelegant.
I would use a looping timer with a validate unit term that looks if the unit is hidden.
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@DrSuperEvil:
I ended up using the release effect to apply a behaviour to the interceptor, which is removed when the Interceptor becomes hidden; definitely inspired by the above mention of them acquiring hidden when holstered.
So that's more or less the entire graphical effect done, now onto the splash aura and differential speed buffs. I'm sure I'm going to have problems with the latter, so I'll just leave this thread opened for now...
Plan for splash is a further periodic effect on the same behaviour, and for the speed I plan on stacking a series of concentric auras around the Colossus.
I would just use a single Damage effect with splash on the ammo unit behaviour. For the Speed I would use the release effect to apply 2-3 buffs that adjust speed that are validated by Location Range validators based on distance from caster.
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Quote from DrSuperEvil:
I would just use a single Damage effect with splash on the ammo unit behaviour. For the Speed I would use the release effect to apply 2-3 buffs that adjust speed that are validated by Location Range validators based on distance from caster.
Did just that for splash damage, but as I expected I got a bit lost on the speed debuff. To make it a smooth accel/decel I'm actually doing about 8 regions but for simplicity sake here, we'll use one.
I'm not quite sure I understand the way you're suggesting--would that be a buff per location range validator, all stacked on the Interceptor?
The way I tried to do it initially is a search-area that applies buffs from the Colossus with multiple ranges. I have it only targeting the dummy interceptors, but I can't figure out how to exclude the interceptors from other Colossi in the search. Is there a way to do that?
Not with a search from the caster.
With the speed buffs on the ammo unit just use greater than logic for the range validator that way as it goes further it is slowed more.
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