its around 120xdialog item just for the talent tree system
Yet, you don't have to display everything, every time... If the player is of class X, you don't have to show the whole tree for each class in the UI. It's not even necessary to show the 5 dialog items per skill, just show the current level and the item corresponding to the next level. 20 skills per hero also means you only need to display the current hero for player X in the UI.
So basically, there are at least 3 things you can do to reduce the content of the trigger showing the UI. You don't need to do a trigger for each of the 120 cases, your trigger CAN'T possibly check for the 120 cases alone either, so you just need to do a trigger generating a UI depending on values (integers/reals, unit type, etc...) and booleans defined by other triggers. The trigger showing the UI should do nothing but check values that were already modified by triggers BEFORE, so that you don't have to check every possible case at the moment you display the UI.
What you need should be something like:
1 trigger to define each dialog items (this is the biggest trigger you will have, it is used to create a menu containing the maximum of 120 items you speak of... but I seriously advice you DON'T display the whole tree for each hero and each level of each skill... that's just insane)
1 trigger "show UI" (which will show the dialog box, check for values from other triggers then display them in the right dialog item)
1 trigger to define the 5 levels of a skill (basically a switch that will change the settings/actions done depending on which skill it is)
1 trigger to define which hero has which skills in his "tech tree".
You will have something like 30-40 variables (most likely integer arrays and/or booleans) to recognize every piece of information, and display them in a dialog box as needed. If you have more, you're doing it wrong. From what I remember from the video you showed once, there were errors very often in the error frame and the game mechanics were not working fine. So, obviously, the project is very hard to make (who could deny it?) but you're doing something wrong nonetheless. You shouldn't give up this project, just seriously work on a better way to organize your triggers so that it will be easier for you to build on it. You started in the wrong direction, that sucks but it's OK. You feel like you're in a dead end because you are, and this is the only way your method could have ended because it's not the right one. The only option left now is to take the problem from another point of view... ;)
I'm not sure what you're trying to do... You want a unit to be spawned, whatever happens, but the type of unit is determined by which array have the highest percentage?
If I understood well, you want a unit to be spawned more or less often depending on its type? Well, just pick a random value from 1 to 100 each time you want to spawn a unit, and check if the picked value is higher than the value in your array (assuming the values in your array is the percentage of chance it will spawn). Spawn the unit if random picked value > value in the array corresponding to the unit type you want to spawn. Is that what you wanted? I assume the first [1] is the player owning the units, and the second value in brackets is for the unit type, right?
If you want to spawn only the unit with the highest percentage, it might be a bit harder but not impossible at all.
People on these forums are more likely to give you advices so you can do the map yourself, rather than doing it for you. Don't fear to ask by creating a topic about how to improve your map (with screenshots and ideas), this is what most beginners do and it works better that way. Visit the Terraining section often too, you'll see interesting tutorials and tips on how to make a great map with little or no experience at all at terraining.
I couldn't figure out how to display an integer in a leaderboard. Can you explain to him AND me? I would like to learn and he may use it. Please?
You can check my Ikari Warriors map for that (Forum> Projects Workplace... or directly through my profile). I have a kill counter which displays the number of enemy units killed by the 2 human players. Basically, you create a leaderboard displaying the kill count variable (you need to use "convert integer to text"). Add another trigger that increments the kill count variable when an enemy is killed, then refresh the content of the leaderboard each time it happens. Voilà!
It's an important matter in the process of creating a game: you need to think it as if it was a human body. Brain for the boss room (or any final epic event... whatever it is, it is your goal); heart which stands for the big room/crossroad (most often right next the boss) where you come back multiple times in the game, right after visiting the other parts (kidneys, liver, and lungs... etc etc...). Each organ of the human body can be defined as a part of a game, and each of these have a specific role you can't switch or remove. It may look silly, but it's not. Arkham Asylum works this way. Darksiders works this way. Starcraft 2, well... it's not as obvious, but it works the same way (Char is the Brain, the briefing room is the Heart, etc...). Remove anything and it will be unstable. ;)
True... But it's probably way harder to create DK though. I mean Starcraft 2 was more likely designed for real-time or turn-based games, rather than something like DK. Both are possible, but DK is not as "obvious" to create. It takes time, and he probably has something more important to deal with right now.
Anyway, I've seen the screenshots yesterday and it looks really good. I was wondering if it is possible somehow to replace big cubes of dirt by the cliff tiles. I assume it requires to import them as doodads or something like that, the most tricky part being to choose which model to apply depending on which angle/corner the cliff is on.
Also, I'd like to know how you did the "grab" thing (is it like DK, with the unit floating in the air following your mouse pointer?)... If you can tell briefly how it's done, I may have a use for this in one of my own maps. Thanks.
They're definitely right... If you reached the triggers limit, you obviously did it wrong. Think of your code as a human body: The brain (one trigger) controls EVERYTHING, he gives all the orders to the other parts but doesn't do anything else (basically, it will be filled with "run trigger" and "wait for condition" triggers in-between, if needed).
The heart is the core of your game, its role is to set variables according to other variables. It's probably the biggest one, and if you need to split it to reduce its size, do the same process as for the brain: run trigger, and wait for condition. It is the trigger (up to 4, or else you screwed something up) that will "feed" the other triggers with data.
The lungs/liver/kidneys are the other triggers that will actually run when both the brain and the heart have done their job. This is the part that actually do anything on screen, thanks to what was defined with the previous triggers. It can be divided in 6-8 triggers approximately, to reduce the size of each. But the less trigger you need to create, the better. Each "organ" is a huge trigger which, as always, executes "run trigger" and "wait for condition" again. Any other task is done by dozens of small triggers running, let's say, up to 20 instructions each.
When you have lots of instructions to be done, the more you discharge/delegate the better. Think of it as a company, if you prefer: The CEO does nothing but delegate (which is not as an easy job as it looks, by the way!), and everyone working for the CEO try to do the same, until the poor little interns are submerged with work. (ahhhh, good old times...)
Anyway, you SHOULDN'T have 1500+ variables (this is totally insane... you're not even using arrays, are you?), and 500+ triggers is obviously something you can reduce by half if you do what we said. A code is like a tree: the roots hold everything together, branches divide the work, so that the leaves can manage one task at a time.
Easy part. If you need a deck of 50 cards:
-pick each integer between 1 and 50 (let's call it A) and do : pick random integer (let's call it B) between 1 and 50
-set the value "picked integer A" of an array (size: 50) to "random value B"
I have a system in my current project that does something really close to this, but each card is unique (which is not the case in MtG, because of lands and all that...). It works the same way and is totally bug-free. Maybe I'll send some screenshots later to show you in details how it's done.
To actually define the deck content, you also need to create a trigger with a huuuuuuuge switch that will assign parameters (card color, type, name, etc...) depending on the value of your array fields. The boring part is to actually define the 50 cards and which parameter(s) they have. But once it's done, you can refer to your array for pretty much everything related to picking the card, giving them to a player, applying their power in game, etc...
Anyway, so far on my board game project, I have something like 60-70 arrays (half of them using multiple arrays actually, because each power/unit/etc is unique and I need to check which player have which card in hand with which power, when and in which state...). I can't even imagine the mess it will be to do something similar, taking each parameter from the MtG gameplay into account... Card color, mana cost, card name, card picture?, card type, properties (flying, initiative, summon sickness, attack/block state... there's at least a dozen of these!), attack/defense. It's a lot, especially because each of these parameters can interact with each other. IMO, you shouldn't do a real-time game using the MtG rules. It's not fitting at all, and if you want any proof of how lame a real-time MtG is, just check their PC game which used the Unreal Engine. It was a huge mess and the gameplay was not fun at all.
Dune: Evolution is an ambitious non-commercial project with professional approach, made by the [ADVENTURERS] team.
Sorry to have to say that (I think I'm not going to make friends today...), but I know a LOT of amateur teams claiming they have a "professional approach", and ending up with their project abandoned because they realize it's too much work. I don't wish the same for your project (I love Dune, even though I only have seen the movie, played the videogames, and never read the books), but I don't want you to believe (or make US believe) you're on the same level as professionals. You're only amateurs until you actually worked in the video games industry. Most amateurs don't even have a clue of where they're going and how the industry works (I heard soooo many people say they were able to do a game on their own, and in the end it was some awful thing without any sort of gameplay nor any interest... just because they didn't know creating a game requires to follow RULES). As for any kind of job, it may seem easy because it's fun, but not everybody is able to do it. I'm in the video games industry and I will never claim I could do a movie alone if I wanted to. Nor will I claim to be a programmer, or an artist. It's not my job and there are probably tons of things implied I never thought of.
Well, enough digression for now.
Anyway, I wish to see your project released one day. Really, I'd love to play it. But as SoulCarveRR said, most people here are already spending time on their own projects (mostly alone) so it will not be easy to get someone to help you... I'm on a project already, the next one is on its way, and I'm already planning the third. It seems you're already far more than enough in your team to do something really cool (we once made a complete Wii game with a team of 5 guys), so I hope you'll keep your interest in the SC2 Editor to actually learn how it works. There are plenty of topics here that will help, just don't give up if you ever feel like the task is too hard for you. It's not easy, but it's really worth it. Good luck!
Here is my config (built in December 2009 for 450-500€), if it helps:
Motherboard: P5E3 Pro (you can't put a i5 proc on these... socket is 775)
Processor: Intel Q6600 (quadcore)
CPU Ventilation: Can't remember but it's a Zalman (never went over 45-50°C)
RAM: 4Go DDR3 (NOT Corsair, it's cheaper and works perfect anyway!)
Hard Drives: Kingston SSDNow (64Go SATA) for the OS only; another with 1To capacity (SATA) for storage
Graphics: Nvidia 8800 GT (PCI Express x16)
If you change the graphics card to some newer model (8800 GT is getting reaaaaaally old now), it will work like a charm (30 fps with ultra settings, lags a bit when recording with Fraps though) for a reasonable cost. I'm not sure about Diablo 3. Anyway, this is the cheapest I could think of, and it is far more than enough to play SC2 in Ultra. Improving some parts will cost 150-250€ more and the boost won't be *that* obvious (except the graphics card)...
This happens on different computers. It seems that the original computer where the map was made f*ck up every new map that I make.
If your map is screwed up even when opened on another computer, then the source of the problem is definitely your map (probably not the editor, unless you have some shitty hard drive with missing files). I had an issue with the size of my map, 64*256 doesn't let you place roads everywhere on the map and I spent 2 days to finally figure what it was (maps must be square or roads will not work 100%). My best guess is to edit/set the default height of your map: if you try to put 0 as default, and create some lower cliffs, I'm not sure it will work fine. The default value (which is 8) is fine. I can't think of anything else that would cause those rough cliffs on the side when pasted (like in the 2nd screenshot). I'd really try to play with heights if I were you. Try absolutely everything with the Terrain tools and if anything changes, tell us.
In the Terrain editing window, in the top toolbar, there is a button with a distorted arrow on it (it's the "Pathing" tool). Click on it (shortcut is H), it will show 3 items in your Brush palette:
-Painted pathing (with several tools to modify pathing/building areas)
-Dynamic pathing (also blocks pathing, but using objects/doodads)
-No fly-zones, which is the tool you seek
When you put a no-fly zone on your map, you can edit its properties (select it and press Enter, or double-click on it). In the Properties you can change the soft radius (which is the radius at which air units will start avoiding the placed object) and the hard radius (which defines where air units will never enter). If you want to see the radius in 3D, you can select the View>Show Pathing>"Show Mesh" option in the View Menu (shortcut is Ctrl+Alt+H).
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Yet, you don't have to display everything, every time... If the player is of class X, you don't have to show the whole tree for each class in the UI. It's not even necessary to show the 5 dialog items per skill, just show the current level and the item corresponding to the next level. 20 skills per hero also means you only need to display the current hero for player X in the UI.
So basically, there are at least 3 things you can do to reduce the content of the trigger showing the UI. You don't need to do a trigger for each of the 120 cases, your trigger CAN'T possibly check for the 120 cases alone either, so you just need to do a trigger generating a UI depending on values (integers/reals, unit type, etc...) and booleans defined by other triggers. The trigger showing the UI should do nothing but check values that were already modified by triggers BEFORE, so that you don't have to check every possible case at the moment you display the UI.
What you need should be something like:
1 trigger to define each dialog items (this is the biggest trigger you will have, it is used to create a menu containing the maximum of 120 items you speak of... but I seriously advice you DON'T display the whole tree for each hero and each level of each skill... that's just insane)
1 trigger "show UI" (which will show the dialog box, check for values from other triggers then display them in the right dialog item)
1 trigger to define the 5 levels of a skill (basically a switch that will change the settings/actions done depending on which skill it is)
1 trigger to define which hero has which skills in his "tech tree".
You will have something like 30-40 variables (most likely integer arrays and/or booleans) to recognize every piece of information, and display them in a dialog box as needed. If you have more, you're doing it wrong. From what I remember from the video you showed once, there were errors very often in the error frame and the game mechanics were not working fine. So, obviously, the project is very hard to make (who could deny it?) but you're doing something wrong nonetheless. You shouldn't give up this project, just seriously work on a better way to organize your triggers so that it will be easier for you to build on it. You started in the wrong direction, that sucks but it's OK. You feel like you're in a dead end because you are, and this is the only way your method could have ended because it's not the right one. The only option left now is to take the problem from another point of view... ;)
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I'm not sure what you're trying to do... You want a unit to be spawned, whatever happens, but the type of unit is determined by which array have the highest percentage?
0
@dudeim: Go
If I understood well, you want a unit to be spawned more or less often depending on its type? Well, just pick a random value from 1 to 100 each time you want to spawn a unit, and check if the picked value is higher than the value in your array (assuming the values in your array is the percentage of chance it will spawn). Spawn the unit if random picked value > value in the array corresponding to the unit type you want to spawn. Is that what you wanted? I assume the first [1] is the player owning the units, and the second value in brackets is for the unit type, right?
If you want to spawn only the unit with the highest percentage, it might be a bit harder but not impossible at all.
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People on these forums are more likely to give you advices so you can do the map yourself, rather than doing it for you. Don't fear to ask by creating a topic about how to improve your map (with screenshots and ideas), this is what most beginners do and it works better that way. Visit the Terraining section often too, you'll see interesting tutorials and tips on how to make a great map with little or no experience at all at terraining.
0
You can check my Ikari Warriors map for that (Forum> Projects Workplace... or directly through my profile). I have a kill counter which displays the number of enemy units killed by the 2 human players. Basically, you create a leaderboard displaying the kill count variable (you need to use "convert integer to text"). Add another trigger that increments the kill count variable when an enemy is killed, then refresh the content of the leaderboard each time it happens. Voilà!
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@Bibendus: Go
You DO realize this is like encouraging me to continue, right? xD
OK then, let's live in trees and be friend with bears... :P
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@Bibendus: Go Insane, but true! :D
It's an important matter in the process of creating a game: you need to think it as if it was a human body. Brain for the boss room (or any final epic event... whatever it is, it is your goal); heart which stands for the big room/crossroad (most often right next the boss) where you come back multiple times in the game, right after visiting the other parts (kidneys, liver, and lungs... etc etc...). Each organ of the human body can be defined as a part of a game, and each of these have a specific role you can't switch or remove. It may look silly, but it's not. Arkham Asylum works this way. Darksiders works this way. Starcraft 2, well... it's not as obvious, but it works the same way (Char is the Brain, the briefing room is the Heart, etc...). Remove anything and it will be unstable. ;)
0
True... But it's probably way harder to create DK though. I mean Starcraft 2 was more likely designed for real-time or turn-based games, rather than something like DK. Both are possible, but DK is not as "obvious" to create. It takes time, and he probably has something more important to deal with right now.
Anyway, I've seen the screenshots yesterday and it looks really good. I was wondering if it is possible somehow to replace big cubes of dirt by the cliff tiles. I assume it requires to import them as doodads or something like that, the most tricky part being to choose which model to apply depending on which angle/corner the cliff is on.
Also, I'd like to know how you did the "grab" thing (is it like DK, with the unit floating in the air following your mouse pointer?)... If you can tell briefly how it's done, I may have a use for this in one of my own maps. Thanks.
I'm eager to see the video too. :)
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They're definitely right... If you reached the triggers limit, you obviously did it wrong. Think of your code as a human body: The brain (one trigger) controls EVERYTHING, he gives all the orders to the other parts but doesn't do anything else (basically, it will be filled with "run trigger" and "wait for condition" triggers in-between, if needed).
The heart is the core of your game, its role is to set variables according to other variables. It's probably the biggest one, and if you need to split it to reduce its size, do the same process as for the brain: run trigger, and wait for condition. It is the trigger (up to 4, or else you screwed something up) that will "feed" the other triggers with data.
The lungs/liver/kidneys are the other triggers that will actually run when both the brain and the heart have done their job. This is the part that actually do anything on screen, thanks to what was defined with the previous triggers. It can be divided in 6-8 triggers approximately, to reduce the size of each. But the less trigger you need to create, the better. Each "organ" is a huge trigger which, as always, executes "run trigger" and "wait for condition" again. Any other task is done by dozens of small triggers running, let's say, up to 20 instructions each.
When you have lots of instructions to be done, the more you discharge/delegate the better. Think of it as a company, if you prefer: The CEO does nothing but delegate (which is not as an easy job as it looks, by the way!), and everyone working for the CEO try to do the same, until the poor little interns are submerged with work. (ahhhh, good old times...)
Anyway, you SHOULDN'T have 1500+ variables (this is totally insane... you're not even using arrays, are you?), and 500+ triggers is obviously something you can reduce by half if you do what we said. A code is like a tree: the roots hold everything together, branches divide the work, so that the leaves can manage one task at a time.
I'm running out of metaphors now. :D
0
Easy part. If you need a deck of 50 cards:
-pick each integer between 1 and 50 (let's call it A) and do : pick random integer (let's call it B) between 1 and 50
-set the value "picked integer A" of an array (size: 50) to "random value B"
I have a system in my current project that does something really close to this, but each card is unique (which is not the case in MtG, because of lands and all that...). It works the same way and is totally bug-free. Maybe I'll send some screenshots later to show you in details how it's done.
To actually define the deck content, you also need to create a trigger with a huuuuuuuge switch that will assign parameters (card color, type, name, etc...) depending on the value of your array fields. The boring part is to actually define the 50 cards and which parameter(s) they have. But once it's done, you can refer to your array for pretty much everything related to picking the card, giving them to a player, applying their power in game, etc...
Anyway, so far on my board game project, I have something like 60-70 arrays (half of them using multiple arrays actually, because each power/unit/etc is unique and I need to check which player have which card in hand with which power, when and in which state...). I can't even imagine the mess it will be to do something similar, taking each parameter from the MtG gameplay into account... Card color, mana cost, card name, card picture?, card type, properties (flying, initiative, summon sickness, attack/block state... there's at least a dozen of these!), attack/defense. It's a lot, especially because each of these parameters can interact with each other. IMO, you shouldn't do a real-time game using the MtG rules. It's not fitting at all, and if you want any proof of how lame a real-time MtG is, just check their PC game which used the Unreal Engine. It was a huge mess and the gameplay was not fun at all.
0
Sorry to have to say that (I think I'm not going to make friends today...), but I know a LOT of amateur teams claiming they have a "professional approach", and ending up with their project abandoned because they realize it's too much work. I don't wish the same for your project (I love Dune, even though I only have seen the movie, played the videogames, and never read the books), but I don't want you to believe (or make US believe) you're on the same level as professionals. You're only amateurs until you actually worked in the video games industry. Most amateurs don't even have a clue of where they're going and how the industry works (I heard soooo many people say they were able to do a game on their own, and in the end it was some awful thing without any sort of gameplay nor any interest... just because they didn't know creating a game requires to follow RULES). As for any kind of job, it may seem easy because it's fun, but not everybody is able to do it. I'm in the video games industry and I will never claim I could do a movie alone if I wanted to. Nor will I claim to be a programmer, or an artist. It's not my job and there are probably tons of things implied I never thought of.
Well, enough digression for now.
Anyway, I wish to see your project released one day. Really, I'd love to play it. But as SoulCarveRR said, most people here are already spending time on their own projects (mostly alone) so it will not be easy to get someone to help you... I'm on a project already, the next one is on its way, and I'm already planning the third. It seems you're already far more than enough in your team to do something really cool (we once made a complete Wii game with a team of 5 guys), so I hope you'll keep your interest in the SC2 Editor to actually learn how it works. There are plenty of topics here that will help, just don't give up if you ever feel like the task is too hard for you. It's not easy, but it's really worth it. Good luck!
0
Here is my config (built in December 2009 for 450-500€), if it helps:
Motherboard: P5E3 Pro (you can't put a i5 proc on these... socket is 775)
Processor: Intel Q6600 (quadcore)
CPU Ventilation: Can't remember but it's a Zalman (never went over 45-50°C)
RAM: 4Go DDR3 (NOT Corsair, it's cheaper and works perfect anyway!)
Hard Drives: Kingston SSDNow (64Go SATA) for the OS only; another with 1To capacity (SATA) for storage
Graphics: Nvidia 8800 GT (PCI Express x16)
If you change the graphics card to some newer model (8800 GT is getting reaaaaaally old now), it will work like a charm (30 fps with ultra settings, lags a bit when recording with Fraps though) for a reasonable cost. I'm not sure about Diablo 3. Anyway, this is the cheapest I could think of, and it is far more than enough to play SC2 in Ultra. Improving some parts will cost 150-250€ more and the boost won't be *that* obvious (except the graphics card)...
0
If your map is screwed up even when opened on another computer, then the source of the problem is definitely your map (probably not the editor, unless you have some shitty hard drive with missing files). I had an issue with the size of my map, 64*256 doesn't let you place roads everywhere on the map and I spent 2 days to finally figure what it was (maps must be square or roads will not work 100%). My best guess is to edit/set the default height of your map: if you try to put 0 as default, and create some lower cliffs, I'm not sure it will work fine. The default value (which is 8) is fine. I can't think of anything else that would cause those rough cliffs on the side when pasted (like in the 2nd screenshot). I'd really try to play with heights if I were you. Try absolutely everything with the Terrain tools and if anything changes, tell us.
0
In the Terrain editing window, in the top toolbar, there is a button with a distorted arrow on it (it's the "Pathing" tool). Click on it (shortcut is H), it will show 3 items in your Brush palette:
-Painted pathing (with several tools to modify pathing/building areas)
-Dynamic pathing (also blocks pathing, but using objects/doodads)
-No fly-zones, which is the tool you seek
When you put a no-fly zone on your map, you can edit its properties (select it and press Enter, or double-click on it). In the Properties you can change the soft radius (which is the radius at which air units will start avoiding the placed object) and the hard radius (which defines where air units will never enter). If you want to see the radius in 3D, you can select the View>Show Pathing>"Show Mesh" option in the View Menu (shortcut is Ctrl+Alt+H).
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Just found this on Youtube while searching for 8-bit tunes...
Enjoy! ;)