Yeah looking forward to the Zerus tileset. People have created some really great stuff with it. Shadow of the Xel'Naga was Mar Sara for 5 maps^^
I just played the map with a friend. It's crazy. Playing alone is really hard. Playing with someone else is really easy, but I think it felt a lot like Normal difficulty on Blizzard coop maps. I think I can almost leave it like this. Will make the 2nd bonus objective appear a bit earlier.
And... what if I told you the map will get voice over?
I want to play your map Outsider!! Lemme know how to get access to it. I might be able to get my brother to play
Search for Primal Ascension on EU server. Also add me on battle.net. OutsiderXE#2947
Btw. I've decided to start with terrain asap. No point in delaying it anymore if it's the reason why I won't post it on bnet forum. Future gameplay changes shouldn't affect terrain that much anyway (also, I'm starting a new job in april, so I'm in a bit of a hurry).
Hmm I didn't really change anything about the bosses. I actually just played it myself and lost despite making it a bit easier with some timers. Could be that you just got super experienced and know the map inside out^^ I play almost only Artanis, so could be Kerrigan wipes the floor with the bosses.
I will post on battle.net as soon as terrain is done, in order to avoid bad first impressions^^
I could have done a ot more creative stuff with the objectives, but I really want to be able to explain them with a short sentence so players know immediately what to do when they read an objective.
Now that the map is feature-complete I will pay close attention to the difficulty. Did you play alone or with another person? What commanders have you tried and did you notice any pontential cheese tactics? I have barely played the map with others, so I must use my intuition to balance the map for two players. If you have played it alone and it feels like Hard/Brutal then I hope it's easy enough for two players. If you have played it with someone else and it feels like Hard I should tone it down a bit.
I'll keep that in mind when I actually start working on terrain^^
edit: new version's up, including the bonus objectives. Balancing is a bit off (had to rush to the last boss to prevent him from killing the last 2 eggs). Will work on bugs and balancing in the coming days and invite as many people as possible to playtest it. Will start on terrain in 4-8 days. Oh, and of course the bonus objective transmissions are just placeholders.
Interesting. I'll keep the models in mind. Under normal circumstances I would use them right away. Now with the competition it would feel weird if I won something and then it wasn't 100% my doing and I never directly asked for stuff.
No progress on the map right now. Working on the bonus objectives.
(A - south) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
(B - north) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
You need to destroy Rock Towers within a small area to prevent enemies from spawning. If you don't do that within the given time they gather biomass from a Quillgor. ... Not really sure about this bonus objective. Too much disconnected information/gameplay. I want something that's interesting/different but also precise. The problem with the current objective is that the Quillgor only really exists to give the zerg a reason to spawn and to have a timer. I would like to have a single reason for all that (like the Whales in Mist opprtunities)
In preparation for the bonus objective I have made some changes to the level layout (see screenshot).
- I've decreased the number of entrances to the players bases in order to increase the defensive focus on the eggs.
- I've moved the Primal Hive boss to create a bit more of a linear path to him, and also to give some space to larger forces that players will have later.
- Moved the bottom left and top right enemy bases a bit to give some space for the bonus objectives and the Primal Hive.
- Removed player caves (forgot the ones by the Mutalisk and the final boss when I took this screenshot).
I also did this because I want to reconsider making the eggs attackable by enemies, along with the Ash Worms. Will test it.
Bonus objectives:
- Collapse the Cave
- Collapse the Cave (yes, same objective two times)
Basically the Caves will spawn primal zerg until the Rock Towers infront of them are destroyed. These primal zerg will not affect the rest of the battlefield. They will just move infront of their Cave to protect it.
Tomorrow I will add the bonus objectives and publish the new version.
Btw. I just painted a bit on the terrain because I got bored looking at the brown color all the time. I can do better than that^^
- Did you play it alone? I think the map is just generally too easy for two players. I'll increase the number of enemies and waves strength.
- I'll slightly make the bosses attack a bit sooner, but not too much.
- Right now the Ash Worms come as soon as the bosses 2-4 have life <75%, but you can imagine that you won't really care about an Ash Worm once you have damaged the 4th boss enough. Instead I'll make the Ash Worms come via timers or as soon as a Void Crystal has <50% life. Ash Worms should destroy all nearby buildings before unburrowing. Will check again.
- Will increase damage of bosses when draining eggs.
- The creep is nothing to worry about. It's visible because I placed Hatcheries on the map (to test base sizes). The Hatcheries are only visible when testing the map offline, unfortunately the creep doesn't get removed when playing on Bnet.
I just published a new version with increased healing and numerous other changes.
At one point I had stages for the last boss, but even he dies relatively quickly, so you barely notice the stages. The forcefield idea sounds interesting so I'll write it down. For now the new mini boss is "in charge" of separating the players.
Bonus objectives: I think "b)" suits this map very well. Having to kill numerous units sounds like an interesting change compared to the main objective. It also makes this map be in contrast to existing coop maps, where the main objective is usually about killing lots of things and the bonus objective are about killing few things. I've already replaced almost all standard terran units with primal zerg units; shouldn't be that hard to add an objective about having to collect essence. Although, if I just add essence to every primal zerg it won't feel like anything special players need to take care of. They just do it on the side. I think I would need to add special primal zerg in remote locations, so players need to go a little bit out of their way to get the essence.
Question for the current version: Are the Cave Entrances of any use?
edit: From my perspective only two things are left to do: Add the bonus objective and balance the map (too easy right now). After that I'll make the terrain and look for a voice actor.
Hehe, I also thought about having a twin boss spawn but refrained from it because I didn't want to take away from the epicness of a single boss. I hadn't thought about lowering its stats though. Anyway, yesterday I came up with a very similar idea. First of all I redesigned the starting areas (see attached screenshot). The first boss is now in a small fight pit along with the eggs, in front of the base. Once the players have disposed of the first boss a new mini boss (Ash Worm) will appear every 8(?) minutes (or whenever a normal boss wakes up). These mini bosses are not part of the main objective, but will also attack the eggs if not engaged. Normal enemy units will no longer be attacking the eggs.
New objectives will be:
- Slay the Primal Pack Ascendants (0/4)
- Ascendants Must Not Drain 20 Eggs (0 drained)
I'm also unhappy with the lack of normal Primal Zerg. I will probably replace some preplaced terran units with primal zerg units. I'm not sure how to add them to an attack wave. I might also create a bonus objective centered around normal primal zerg units.
I wanted it to be assymetrical. Also because of a lack of space. The intention was that the first boss would be killed around the same time people usually get expansions but I had to delay the boss' activation. I understand it might be a bit too weird so I might redesign it.
I have this weird issue with the Crystals Heal ability not being a proper channeled ability. When I make it channeled and decrease the cooldown to 0 the beam is cast over and over making the beam overlap several times. I tried adding a validator but failed. Anyway, no need to answer that. I can always just increase the healing amount.
- I'll have a look at making the eggs untargetable for the players.
- Egg regeneration is intentional. I don't think players can stall the game by distracting the bosses and havign the eggs heal.
- Will not use custom models. Besides the Ravager all other models are rarely seen in my opinion.
- Bosses can be attacked. You don't have to wait. I will look at having the bosses pop out from underground or eggs.
- I will add cliff blockers and make the terrain on odd cliffs look inaccessible.
- Void Crystals can be attacked by ground and air attacks. It's intentional and works like the last Epilogue map.
- I will decrease the rate at which the first boss uses abilities.
- I will slightly increase the damage and life for all abilities by the second boss.
- I will remove some defensive units on the third base and place some more on the second.
- I will slightly decrease the life of the third boss.
- I will decrease the tech level/amount of units send by waves after minute 25
About adding more types of Void Crystals: I had thought about that but decided against it for a few reasons:
- I don't want the boss fights to become too complex. It should be very clear what the Void Crystals do and how to deal with them.
- Besides making a boss fight more interesting they only really serve one purpose: So the players can't just fire all their abilities on a single target. Making them heal a boss is the only way to force players to target something other than a boss. If you give them a damage or speed boost it is likely the players won't care and just continue attacking the boss.
- I had thought about adding more Void Crystals that are far away to make players split, but in reality they don't have to split. If a Void Crystal is healing so much that the boss can't be dealt with there is no reason for any of the players to stay with the boss. This is actually the real reason why I made the eggs attackable by standard enemy forces, so sometimes players have to split when an enemy wave is incoming.
The truth is, I would still like to find a way to add Void Crystals that are far away and make the eggs generally unattackable. I'll think about it. I could have Void Crystals that attack the eggs, but that would take away from the boss fights. I want new Void Crystals to make the boss fights more interesting. One of the first ideas I had was to just spawn the same boss in different areas multiple times, but that just took away from how epic a single boss encounter could be.
Thank you for your feedback. Check again in 1-2 days when I will have implemented the above list.
The map should be public on EU now but I can't find it (does it take some time?) You can try to search for "Primal Ascension" or use the link: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/198992 (copy into your browser and then start SC2)
- Terrain: Focus currently is on gameplay. Won't work on terrain until gameplay is as fun as possible. Expect to work on terrain late March/early April.
- Difficulty: Supposed to be Normal difficulty for two players. Other difficulties currently not planned. If you play alone it should feel like Hard/Brutal
- Gameplay: 4 epic boss fights. Players also have to protect eggs. Caves help move across the map faster. Secondary objective not planned yet.
0
Yeah looking forward to the Zerus tileset. People have created some really great stuff with it. Shadow of the Xel'Naga was Mar Sara for 5 maps^^
I just played the map with a friend. It's crazy. Playing alone is really hard. Playing with someone else is really easy, but I think it felt a lot like Normal difficulty on Blizzard coop maps. I think I can almost leave it like this. Will make the 2nd bonus objective appear a bit earlier.
And... what if I told you the map will get voice over?
0
Search for Primal Ascension on EU server. Also add me on battle.net. OutsiderXE#2947
Btw. I've decided to start with terrain asap. No point in delaying it anymore if it's the reason why I won't post it on bnet forum. Future gameplay changes shouldn't affect terrain that much anyway (also, I'm starting a new job in april, so I'm in a bit of a hurry).
0
Hmm I didn't really change anything about the bosses. I actually just played it myself and lost despite making it a bit easier with some timers. Could be that you just got super experienced and know the map inside out^^ I play almost only Artanis, so could be Kerrigan wipes the floor with the bosses.
I will post on battle.net as soon as terrain is done, in order to avoid bad first impressions^^
0
I could have done a ot more creative stuff with the objectives, but I really want to be able to explain them with a short sentence so players know immediately what to do when they read an objective.
Now that the map is feature-complete I will pay close attention to the difficulty. Did you play alone or with another person? What commanders have you tried and did you notice any pontential cheese tactics? I have barely played the map with others, so I must use my intuition to balance the map for two players. If you have played it alone and it feels like Hard/Brutal then I hope it's easy enough for two players. If you have played it with someone else and it feels like Hard I should tone it down a bit.
0
I'll keep that in mind when I actually start working on terrain^^
edit: new version's up, including the bonus objectives. Balancing is a bit off (had to rush to the last boss to prevent him from killing the last 2 eggs). Will work on bugs and balancing in the coming days and invite as many people as possible to playtest it. Will start on terrain in 4-8 days. Oh, and of course the bonus objective transmissions are just placeholders.
0
Interesting. I'll keep the models in mind. Under normal circumstances I would use them right away. Now with the competition it would feel weird if I won something and then it wasn't 100% my doing and I never directly asked for stuff.
No progress on the map right now. Working on the bonus objectives.
(A - south) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
(B - north) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
You need to destroy Rock Towers within a small area to prevent enemies from spawning. If you don't do that within the given time they gather biomass from a Quillgor. ... Not really sure about this bonus objective. Too much disconnected information/gameplay. I want something that's interesting/different but also precise. The problem with the current objective is that the Quillgor only really exists to give the zerg a reason to spawn and to have a timer. I would like to have a single reason for all that (like the Whales in Mist opprtunities)
0
In preparation for the bonus objective I have made some changes to the level layout (see screenshot).
- I've decreased the number of entrances to the players bases in order to increase the defensive focus on the eggs.
- I've moved the Primal Hive boss to create a bit more of a linear path to him, and also to give some space to larger forces that players will have later.
- Moved the bottom left and top right enemy bases a bit to give some space for the bonus objectives and the Primal Hive.
- Removed player caves (forgot the ones by the Mutalisk and the final boss when I took this screenshot).
I also did this because I want to reconsider making the eggs attackable by enemies, along with the Ash Worms. Will test it.
Bonus objectives:
- Collapse the Cave
- Collapse the Cave (yes, same objective two times)
Basically the Caves will spawn primal zerg until the Rock Towers infront of them are destroyed. These primal zerg will not affect the rest of the battlefield. They will just move infront of their Cave to protect it.
Tomorrow I will add the bonus objectives and publish the new version.
Btw. I just painted a bit on the terrain because I got bored looking at the brown color all the time. I can do better than that^^
0
- Did you play it alone? I think the map is just generally too easy for two players. I'll increase the number of enemies and waves strength.
- I'll slightly make the bosses attack a bit sooner, but not too much.
- Right now the Ash Worms come as soon as the bosses 2-4 have life <75%, but you can imagine that you won't really care about an Ash Worm once you have damaged the 4th boss enough. Instead I'll make the Ash Worms come via timers or as soon as a Void Crystal has <50% life. Ash Worms should destroy all nearby buildings before unburrowing. Will check again.
- Will increase damage of bosses when draining eggs.
- The creep is nothing to worry about. It's visible because I placed Hatcheries on the map (to test base sizes). The Hatcheries are only visible when testing the map offline, unfortunately the creep doesn't get removed when playing on Bnet.
0
I thought that cave placement was already changed in the last version. Anyway, here's a picture of the current version: http://imgur.com/a/idEyD
Escorts are always a bit tricky but I'll have a look.
0
I just published a new version with increased healing and numerous other changes.
At one point I had stages for the last boss, but even he dies relatively quickly, so you barely notice the stages. The forcefield idea sounds interesting so I'll write it down. For now the new mini boss is "in charge" of separating the players.
Bonus objectives: I think "b)" suits this map very well. Having to kill numerous units sounds like an interesting change compared to the main objective. It also makes this map be in contrast to existing coop maps, where the main objective is usually about killing lots of things and the bonus objective are about killing few things. I've already replaced almost all standard terran units with primal zerg units; shouldn't be that hard to add an objective about having to collect essence. Although, if I just add essence to every primal zerg it won't feel like anything special players need to take care of. They just do it on the side. I think I would need to add special primal zerg in remote locations, so players need to go a little bit out of their way to get the essence.
Question for the current version: Are the Cave Entrances of any use?
edit: From my perspective only two things are left to do: Add the bonus objective and balance the map (too easy right now). After that I'll make the terrain and look for a voice actor.
0
Hehe, I also thought about having a twin boss spawn but refrained from it because I didn't want to take away from the epicness of a single boss. I hadn't thought about lowering its stats though. Anyway, yesterday I came up with a very similar idea. First of all I redesigned the starting areas (see attached screenshot). The first boss is now in a small fight pit along with the eggs, in front of the base. Once the players have disposed of the first boss a new mini boss (Ash Worm) will appear every 8(?) minutes (or whenever a normal boss wakes up). These mini bosses are not part of the main objective, but will also attack the eggs if not engaged. Normal enemy units will no longer be attacking the eggs.
New objectives will be:
- Slay the Primal Pack Ascendants (0/4)
- Ascendants Must Not Drain 20 Eggs (0 drained)
I'm also unhappy with the lack of normal Primal Zerg. I will probably replace some preplaced terran units with primal zerg units. I'm not sure how to add them to an attack wave. I might also create a bonus objective centered around normal primal zerg units.
0
I wanted it to be assymetrical. Also because of a lack of space. The intention was that the first boss would be killed around the same time people usually get expansions but I had to delay the boss' activation. I understand it might be a bit too weird so I might redesign it.
I have this weird issue with the Crystals Heal ability not being a proper channeled ability. When I make it channeled and decrease the cooldown to 0 the beam is cast over and over making the beam overlap several times. I tried adding a validator but failed. Anyway, no need to answer that. I can always just increase the healing amount.
0
- I'll have a look at making the eggs untargetable for the players.
- Egg regeneration is intentional. I don't think players can stall the game by distracting the bosses and havign the eggs heal.
- Will not use custom models. Besides the Ravager all other models are rarely seen in my opinion.
- Bosses can be attacked. You don't have to wait. I will look at having the bosses pop out from underground or eggs.
- I will add cliff blockers and make the terrain on odd cliffs look inaccessible.
- Void Crystals can be attacked by ground and air attacks. It's intentional and works like the last Epilogue map.
- I will decrease the rate at which the first boss uses abilities.
- I will slightly increase the damage and life for all abilities by the second boss.
- I will remove some defensive units on the third base and place some more on the second.
- I will slightly decrease the life of the third boss.
- I will decrease the tech level/amount of units send by waves after minute 25
About adding more types of Void Crystals: I had thought about that but decided against it for a few reasons:
- I don't want the boss fights to become too complex. It should be very clear what the Void Crystals do and how to deal with them.
- Besides making a boss fight more interesting they only really serve one purpose: So the players can't just fire all their abilities on a single target. Making them heal a boss is the only way to force players to target something other than a boss. If you give them a damage or speed boost it is likely the players won't care and just continue attacking the boss.
- I had thought about adding more Void Crystals that are far away to make players split, but in reality they don't have to split. If a Void Crystal is healing so much that the boss can't be dealt with there is no reason for any of the players to stay with the boss. This is actually the real reason why I made the eggs attackable by standard enemy forces, so sometimes players have to split when an enemy wave is incoming.
The truth is, I would still like to find a way to add Void Crystals that are far away and make the eggs generally unattackable. I'll think about it. I could have Void Crystals that attack the eggs, but that would take away from the boss fights. I want new Void Crystals to make the boss fights more interesting. One of the first ideas I had was to just spawn the same boss in different areas multiple times, but that just took away from how epic a single boss encounter could be.
Thank you for your feedback. Check again in 1-2 days when I will have implemented the above list.
0
The map should be public on EU now but I can't find it (does it take some time?) You can try to search for "Primal Ascension" or use the link: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/198992 (copy into your browser and then start SC2)
- Terrain: Focus currently is on gameplay. Won't work on terrain until gameplay is as fun as possible. Expect to work on terrain late March/early April.
- Difficulty: Supposed to be Normal difficulty for two players. Other difficulties currently not planned. If you play alone it should feel like Hard/Brutal
- Gameplay: 4 epic boss fights. Players also have to protect eggs. Caves help move across the map faster. Secondary objective not planned yet.
Feedback of any (sane) kind appreciated.
0
I will upload it on bnet and tell you the name and server.