In preparation for the bonus objective I have made some changes to the level layout (see screenshot).
- I've decreased the number of entrances to the players bases in order to increase the defensive focus on the eggs.
- I've moved the Primal Hive boss to create a bit more of a linear path to him, and also to give some space to larger forces that players will have later.
- Moved the bottom left and top right enemy bases a bit to give some space for the bonus objectives and the Primal Hive.
- Removed player caves (forgot the ones by the Mutalisk and the final boss when I took this screenshot).
I also did this because I want to reconsider making the eggs attackable by enemies, along with the Ash Worms. Will test it.
Bonus objectives:
- Collapse the Cave
- Collapse the Cave (yes, same objective two times)
Basically the Caves will spawn primal zerg until the Rock Towers infront of them are destroyed. These primal zerg will not affect the rest of the battlefield. They will just move infront of their Cave to protect it.
Tomorrow I will add the bonus objectives and publish the new version.
Btw. I just painted a bit on the terrain because I got bored looking at the brown color all the time. I can do better than that^^
Lol yeah the brown terreining was a bit hard on the eyes. But i played shadow of xelnaga and u have some terrain talent. U get there ^^
What do you think about using some custom primal models from this site? The bosses look ok except the giant ravanger is kinda boring. Its funny ghostnova has 3 custom models from your first 3 bosses.
Interesting. I'll keep the models in mind. Under normal circumstances I would use them right away. Now with the competition it would feel weird if I won something and then it wasn't 100% my doing and I never directly asked for stuff.
No progress on the map right now. Working on the bonus objectives.
(A - south) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
(B - north) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
You need to destroy Rock Towers within a small area to prevent enemies from spawning. If you don't do that within the given time they gather biomass from a Quillgor. ... Not really sure about this bonus objective. Too much disconnected information/gameplay. I want something that's interesting/different but also precise. The problem with the current objective is that the Quillgor only really exists to give the zerg a reason to spawn and to have a timer. I would like to have a single reason for all that (like the Whales in Mist opprtunities)
I'll keep that in mind when I actually start working on terrain^^
edit: new version's up, including the bonus objectives. Balancing is a bit off (had to rush to the last boss to prevent him from killing the last 2 eggs). Will work on bugs and balancing in the coming days and invite as many people as possible to playtest it. Will start on terrain in 4-8 days. Oh, and of course the bonus objective transmissions are just placeholders.
- The primal hathery second expansion is a really great idea. I just think his dmg is a bit high for early game... i need that 2nd fast.
- The ashworm said they spawn yet they didnt, only after 2nd boss. Also they ash worm seem a bit to strong for normal difficulty. The indicator that they will spawn dosnt leave, it shows on the minimap and stays. Later it becomes confusing when your minimap blinks 5 times.
- I love that u added more units, primal ultralish,raoches also these primal trees that attack u. What do you think of modifying their hp,dmg so they are a bit more beefy?
- The bonus objective seems a bit disjointed from the gameplay. Although i like that u try something creative and dont just do the casual " kill generic unit/building" thing.
- The difficulty overall feels hard rather than normal. If u wont add any more difficulty than its ok i guess. But now for normal is quite challenging. The enemy sheer units and defenses are a bit much.
- The egg drain damage is fine now, maybe add a bit more damage just tiny bit more. I lost 5 eggs and was fooling around with an all tempest army.
The map is more and more fun with each version. I still feel that the primal units have even more potential in this map, with some interesting gameplay mechanic outside the boss gameplay.
I could have done a ot more creative stuff with the objectives, but I really want to be able to explain them with a short sentence so players know immediately what to do when they read an objective.
Now that the map is feature-complete I will pay close attention to the difficulty. Did you play alone or with another person? What commanders have you tried and did you notice any pontential cheese tactics? I have barely played the map with others, so I must use my intuition to balance the map for two players. If you have played it alone and it feels like Hard/Brutal then I hope it's easy enough for two players. If you have played it with someone else and it feels like Hard I should tone it down a bit.
I played it with an ally. He was kerrigan and i was artanis. I only played it twice solo when it was alpha release, now im always playing with ally.
I will try next time and focus on cheese strategy. I used all the commanders and so far kerrigan is the strongest. But not because of this map, she is just op.
I forgot to mention did u add more difficulty's? Or is there just 1 now? Because i picked hard difficulty.
I dont have a problem with this map its just i try to get into a mindset of someone who plays normal difficulty. I play hard/brutal most of times. So its just my opinion that someone that chooses normal will have a bit of a challenge here. I think i would tone some stuff done for the normal folks.
Played again just now did u change something? The bosses where kinda ultra easy. Waves where ok.
The ash worm still has some ping bugs. U might also consider giving the ash worm detection since its easy to kill him with stealth.
Also u probably wont get that much feedback here. U would benefit posting it on battle.net forum.Some of my ally leaved at start of game. I think they saw the awful terrein and thought this map is made by a noob ^^.
Hmm I didn't really change anything about the bosses. I actually just played it myself and lost despite making it a bit easier with some timers. Could be that you just got super experienced and know the map inside out^^ I play almost only Artanis, so could be Kerrigan wipes the floor with the bosses.
I will post on battle.net as soon as terrain is done, in order to avoid bad first impressions^^
I want to play your map Outsider!! Lemme know how to get access to it. I might be able to get my brother to play
Search for Primal Ascension on EU server. Also add me on battle.net. OutsiderXE#2947
Btw. I've decided to start with terrain asap. No point in delaying it anymore if it's the reason why I won't post it on bnet forum. Future gameplay changes shouldn't affect terrain that much anyway (also, I'm starting a new job in april, so I'm in a bit of a hurry).
Yeah looking forward to the Zerus tileset. People have created some really great stuff with it. Shadow of the Xel'Naga was Mar Sara for 5 maps^^
I just played the map with a friend. It's crazy. Playing alone is really hard. Playing with someone else is really easy, but I think it felt a lot like Normal difficulty on Blizzard coop maps. I think I can almost leave it like this. Will make the 2nd bonus objective appear a bit earlier.
And... what if I told you the map will get voice over?
I posted 2 (easy to implement) ideas for your bonus in the map suggestion thread, to spice them up a bit. If u are interested u can check it out.
I think your map is balanced on normal im just not sure about the eggs and the drain dmg. On hard and brutal you would have to either
a) Increase drain damage
b) Reduce eggs
c) both
Even though i think the drain damage is fine on normal 20 eggs seems still a lot. The 20 eggs seem like something that should be on easy level. So for normal 18-16 could do the trick.
Im not sure but next time i will try and find a partner who plays normal regularly. So far i got mixed skill level.
I would just decrease the life on each egg. It's easier than decreasing the number of eggs and adjusting the objective text. Also visually nothing gets messed up (egg pools might look weird with not enough or too many eggs).
Talking about egg pools. "Finished" around 20% of the terrain. Just published it. I also took a lot of notes on balancing, but didn't really change anything. Need to play it more myself and get more feedback. Hopefully I can finish the terrain in 3-5 days and post it on battle.net forums.
If this is 20 % im really excited to see 100% finished.
I tired a mass lurker army. My ally wasn't really that much of a help but i saw that some bases could have more detection. Like the 2nd boss area.
If u are going for a voiceover im not sure what blizzard has planned. If a map wins will they use that voice or remove it? U are using dehaka he will definitely be a commander in the future, so i dont think they be able to use him at all. If the voice is only intended for audio accessibility than it dosnt really matter.
My opinion is, with Blizzard being a professional company, and us just mere hobby modders, it is highly unlikely that anything that has a small question mark on it, will remain the same. What I mean is, they will use the winning map as inspiration to create a completely new map. Let's take my map for example: They see Zerus tileset and the objective to have to fight four different bosses. They don't have a Zerus map yet, and they don't have a boss-centric map yet; but I think it's likely they will change almost anything else: Announcer, level design, boss types and mechanics, story, new form of timer (instead of eggs), different bonus objectives.
Just published new version with around 50% of the terrain finished. No updates on gameplay. Despite your awesome suggestions the bonus objectives will probably not change. I don't want to hassle that poor voice actor anymore. Only thing I will do is add some additional markers to the Rock Towers.
My todo list/notes:
- Make the rest of the terrain and check for performance. I think it's way too detailed.
- Ash Worm still buggy.
- Replace some boss models with custom models
- fix some issues with the bonus timer
- add bnet info
- create thread on bnet forum
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In preparation for the bonus objective I have made some changes to the level layout (see screenshot).
- I've decreased the number of entrances to the players bases in order to increase the defensive focus on the eggs.
- I've moved the Primal Hive boss to create a bit more of a linear path to him, and also to give some space to larger forces that players will have later.
- Moved the bottom left and top right enemy bases a bit to give some space for the bonus objectives and the Primal Hive.
- Removed player caves (forgot the ones by the Mutalisk and the final boss when I took this screenshot).
I also did this because I want to reconsider making the eggs attackable by enemies, along with the Ash Worms. Will test it.
Bonus objectives:
- Collapse the Cave
- Collapse the Cave (yes, same objective two times)
Basically the Caves will spawn primal zerg until the Rock Towers infront of them are destroyed. These primal zerg will not affect the rest of the battlefield. They will just move infront of their Cave to protect it.
Tomorrow I will add the bonus objectives and publish the new version.
Btw. I just painted a bit on the terrain because I got bored looking at the brown color all the time. I can do better than that^^
Lol yeah the brown terreining was a bit hard on the eyes. But i played shadow of xelnaga and u have some terrain talent. U get there ^^
What do you think about using some custom primal models from this site? The bosses look ok except the giant ravanger is kinda boring. Its funny ghostnova has 3 custom models from your first 3 bosses.
Like these for example:
Interesting. I'll keep the models in mind. Under normal circumstances I would use them right away. Now with the competition it would feel weird if I won something and then it wasn't 100% my doing and I never directly asked for stuff.
No progress on the map right now. Working on the bonus objectives.
(A - south) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
(B - north) - Destroy the Rock Towers (0/3) (X:XX remaining)
You need to destroy Rock Towers within a small area to prevent enemies from spawning. If you don't do that within the given time they gather biomass from a Quillgor. ... Not really sure about this bonus objective. Too much disconnected information/gameplay. I want something that's interesting/different but also precise. The problem with the current objective is that the Quillgor only really exists to give the zerg a reason to spawn and to have a timer. I would like to have a single reason for all that (like the Whales in Mist opprtunities)
Upper left base ramp looks a little rough. Maybe blend the light and dark terrain a bit more so the cutoff is less linear?
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
I'll keep that in mind when I actually start working on terrain^^
edit: new version's up, including the bonus objectives. Balancing is a bit off (had to rush to the last boss to prevent him from killing the last 2 eggs). Will work on bugs and balancing in the coming days and invite as many people as possible to playtest it. Will start on terrain in 4-8 days. Oh, and of course the bonus objective transmissions are just placeholders.
- The primal hathery second expansion is a really great idea. I just think his dmg is a bit high for early game... i need that 2nd fast.
- The ashworm said they spawn yet they didnt, only after 2nd boss. Also they ash worm seem a bit to strong for normal difficulty. The indicator that they will spawn dosnt leave, it shows on the minimap and stays. Later it becomes confusing when your minimap blinks 5 times.
- I love that u added more units, primal ultralish,raoches also these primal trees that attack u. What do you think of modifying their hp,dmg so they are a bit more beefy?
- The bonus objective seems a bit disjointed from the gameplay. Although i like that u try something creative and dont just do the casual " kill generic unit/building" thing.
- The difficulty overall feels hard rather than normal. If u wont add any more difficulty than its ok i guess. But now for normal is quite challenging. The enemy sheer units and defenses are a bit much.
- The egg drain damage is fine now, maybe add a bit more damage just tiny bit more. I lost 5 eggs and was fooling around with an all tempest army.
The map is more and more fun with each version. I still feel that the primal units have even more potential in this map, with some interesting gameplay mechanic outside the boss gameplay.
I could have done a ot more creative stuff with the objectives, but I really want to be able to explain them with a short sentence so players know immediately what to do when they read an objective.
Now that the map is feature-complete I will pay close attention to the difficulty. Did you play alone or with another person? What commanders have you tried and did you notice any pontential cheese tactics? I have barely played the map with others, so I must use my intuition to balance the map for two players. If you have played it alone and it feels like Hard/Brutal then I hope it's easy enough for two players. If you have played it with someone else and it feels like Hard I should tone it down a bit.
I played it with an ally. He was kerrigan and i was artanis. I only played it twice solo when it was alpha release, now im always playing with ally.
I will try next time and focus on cheese strategy. I used all the commanders and so far kerrigan is the strongest. But not because of this map, she is just op.
I forgot to mention did u add more difficulty's? Or is there just 1 now? Because i picked hard difficulty.
I dont have a problem with this map its just i try to get into a mindset of someone who plays normal difficulty. I play hard/brutal most of times. So its just my opinion that someone that chooses normal will have a bit of a challenge here. I think i would tone some stuff done for the normal folks.
Played again just now did u change something? The bosses where kinda ultra easy. Waves where ok.
The ash worm still has some ping bugs. U might also consider giving the ash worm detection since its easy to kill him with stealth.
Also u probably wont get that much feedback here. U would benefit posting it on battle.net forum.Some of my ally leaved at start of game. I think they saw the awful terrein and thought this map is made by a noob ^^.
Hmm I didn't really change anything about the bosses. I actually just played it myself and lost despite making it a bit easier with some timers. Could be that you just got super experienced and know the map inside out^^ I play almost only Artanis, so could be Kerrigan wipes the floor with the bosses.
I will post on battle.net as soon as terrain is done, in order to avoid bad first impressions^^
I want to play your map Outsider!! Lemme know how to get access to it. I might be able to get my brother to play it with me.
The condensed Custom Campaign Initiative is on this Google Sheet!
List of my Custom campaign text reviews (warning: only the first half of each is serious)
Search for Primal Ascension on EU server. Also add me on battle.net. OutsiderXE#2947
Btw. I've decided to start with terrain asap. No point in delaying it anymore if it's the reason why I won't post it on bnet forum. Future gameplay changes shouldn't affect terrain that much anyway (also, I'm starting a new job in april, so I'm in a bit of a hurry).
Aaaaaahhh outsider brilliant terraining swamps, essence pools, primal forest trees *drooling right now*
Ps: U can go to desktop search than type "RUN" and than type this in the "run"
section: battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/198992 while in sc game,should get you into the map.
Yeah looking forward to the Zerus tileset. People have created some really great stuff with it. Shadow of the Xel'Naga was Mar Sara for 5 maps^^
I just played the map with a friend. It's crazy. Playing alone is really hard. Playing with someone else is really easy, but I think it felt a lot like Normal difficulty on Blizzard coop maps. I think I can almost leave it like this. Will make the 2nd bonus objective appear a bit earlier.
And... what if I told you the map will get voice over?
I posted 2 (easy to implement) ideas for your bonus in the map suggestion thread, to spice them up a bit. If u are interested u can check it out.
I think your map is balanced on normal im just not sure about the eggs and the drain dmg. On hard and brutal you would have to either
a) Increase drain damage
b) Reduce eggs
c) both
Even though i think the drain damage is fine on normal 20 eggs seems still a lot. The 20 eggs seem like something that should be on easy level. So for normal 18-16 could do the trick.
Im not sure but next time i will try and find a partner who plays normal regularly. So far i got mixed skill level.
Thank you. I'll check the ideas out.
I would just decrease the life on each egg. It's easier than decreasing the number of eggs and adjusting the objective text. Also visually nothing gets messed up (egg pools might look weird with not enough or too many eggs).
Talking about egg pools. "Finished" around 20% of the terrain. Just published it. I also took a lot of notes on balancing, but didn't really change anything. Need to play it more myself and get more feedback. Hopefully I can finish the terrain in 3-5 days and post it on battle.net forums.
If this is 20 % im really excited to see 100% finished.
I tired a mass lurker army. My ally wasn't really that much of a help but i saw that some bases could have more detection. Like the 2nd boss area.
If u are going for a voiceover im not sure what blizzard has planned. If a map wins will they use that voice or remove it? U are using dehaka he will definitely be a commander in the future, so i dont think they be able to use him at all. If the voice is only intended for audio accessibility than it dosnt really matter.
My opinion is, with Blizzard being a professional company, and us just mere hobby modders, it is highly unlikely that anything that has a small question mark on it, will remain the same. What I mean is, they will use the winning map as inspiration to create a completely new map. Let's take my map for example: They see Zerus tileset and the objective to have to fight four different bosses. They don't have a Zerus map yet, and they don't have a boss-centric map yet; but I think it's likely they will change almost anything else: Announcer, level design, boss types and mechanics, story, new form of timer (instead of eggs), different bonus objectives.
Just published new version with around 50% of the terrain finished. No updates on gameplay. Despite your awesome suggestions the bonus objectives will probably not change. I don't want to hassle that poor voice actor anymore. Only thing I will do is add some additional markers to the Rock Towers.
My todo list/notes:
- Make the rest of the terrain and check for performance. I think it's way too detailed.
- Ash Worm still buggy.
- Replace some boss models with custom models
- fix some issues with the bonus timer
- add bnet info
- create thread on bnet forum