That's exactly the attitude I'm trying to prevent, tbh. I'm all for free speech and all that bla, but that doesnt change the fact that when I'm joining a custom game I don't want to be spammed with words like cocksucker and whoremongerer. I know the whole concept of 'offensive' usually is a joke, but it makes a lot of sense here. Technically I could go walk around naked because I can go with the opinion that "if someone takes offense, that's his problem, not mine", but that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't want to get ugly naked dudes shoved in my face when I leave my house. Decency for the sake of decency is retarded, decency purely for the sake of not needlessly bugging a bunch of people with your indecency is something I approve of.
Sure, but then you said they probably wouldn't. Which, as you admitted, we really don't know at all.
Well sure, I could go on about how the lack of empirical evidence along with personal experiences point towards Blizzard usually being on the tolerant side of the 'strictness spectrum', but I didn't deem it necessary. It really is a whole different discussion in itself - I'd happily go into it, but for the cause of just pointing out Rod's reasoning error, it's too much work.
Yes it does matter to jack, and to us, since we're talking about the propriety of mapmakers being censored (justifiably or not), not on random dudes getting jollies from being immature. So, I guess it was your analogy that mattered "jack all" ;)
You're still missing the point.
Problem with Starcraft: you go into a custom game, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'the majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
Problem with the football match in my analogy: you go into a football match, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'they majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
It is completely irrelevant what the source of said dislikeable thing is for its removal to be a good thing, in both cases.
Which is what I said. "At the very least, we can't know for certain". Also, in regards to your comments on my analogy - that matters jack all? The fact is that the streaker is ruining the match. It doesn't matter if the streaker is a random person, the map editor or john doe - as long as he's gone. In this particular case, it would probably be more of a confused naked footballer than a streaker, I guess, but that doesn't really matter - I just don't want to see naked dudes in my football match.
You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions. They specifically said initially that the map was band for words 'such as 'Dyke', naming that one as an example. You cannot possibly know whether Blizz would ban a map based on one edgy word - all you're doing now is speculating.
Ok, but remember that just 1 word from that list would be enough to ban my map. So, if I had just dyke or just jesus, my map would be banned anyway.
No, this is not true. At the very least, we don't know this. Judging from what I've seen from your list now, I'm pretty convinced that if you just had ONE semi-bad word in the map, Blizzard wouldn't haved banned it outright, or at the very least they would have been even more susceptible to your plea than they were now. This is what my whole point was in that thread about the legal rules that come with the editor; Blizzard isn't a completely draconian company - they generally use some measure of reason when banning maps/alledged obscenities.
This is kind of a moot point, tbh. Look at it like this - do you like football? Ever watched a fun an intensive match to suddenly be interrupted by a streaker running naked across the field? That's what situations like these are. Sure, I can tell you "WELL THEN DON'T WATCH FOOTBALL!", but that would really lead to you not ever being able to watch/participate in any kind of amusement for the fear of having it ruined. Once again - I'm not a soft person, but when I'm happily playing some custom games on Starcraft 2 I don't suddenly want to find myself in a map where people are just yelling stuff like Asshole, Cocksucker and Analingus to eachother. Yeah sure, I can just 'not play the map', but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather not have to cope with that shit in the first place.
My point still stands as well, though - I'm not saying we necissarily 'need Blizzard to meddle'. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't exactly 'out of bound' here. Like I said, I'm a real advocate for people being able to say whatever the hell they want, as its always the interpreter's "fault" if he "takes offense" - those are his feelings. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Starcraft 2 is an online game. People play it for entertainment. You shouldn't force yourself to utter your junk anyway. If I want to chill out and do some Starcraft, I do not need to be spammed with "cocksucker" and "whoremonger". If Blizzard's 'meddling' achieves this, then honestly, I don't mind it. As long as they don't go overboard - which they haven't in this case.
I know you didn't mean bad by this. Your idea of using a dictionary as a source was downright brilliant - it's the kind of extra stuff that makes maps excellent instead of good. I'm not blaming you for what happened in your map - I'm just saying Blizz wasn't really as out of line here as people are making it sound. In this case, neither you or Blizz did something bad - your good idea just backfired on you, that is all. Sure, Blizz could have handled it better than just instantly banning the map, which was a bit extreme, but overall, I can blame neither you nor Blizz for your actions.
Check the list Rodrigo used for his map, he uploaded it in his other topic. His map wasn't just banned because of the word 'dyke'. There was stuff like cocksucker, whoremonger, petcock and hoecake in there too. You can't expect Blizz to *not* ban a map that requires you to actively type out words like that to beat it. I'm all for eliminating censorship, but stuff like that simply has no place in a game made for entertainment, regardless of how it's used.
It's good to remember that I had 32,000 words to review. I didn't know about those words in my game, and I bet 99% of the players didn't know since it's very hard for them to show up.
Also, the game will be published with a new list. Check the list on the "NWW - Dictionary" thread.
Sure you didn't know about those words, but like the letter mentions, you can't blame Blizzard for that. Fact of the matter is that you released a map where people were actively supposed to type words like "cocksucker" to eachother. You can't expect them to allow that - this isn't just words with double meanings, these are words that are used and created for the sole purpose of downtalking somebody.
I'm not saying it's entirely your fault or something, but really, wouldn't you want to ban someone from your map if he was actively typing words like whoremongerer and cocksucker?
Looks like I did judge too soon in the other topic - though to be fair, I went with the info I had, which was the one word 'dyke'. If you actually had stuff like whoremonger and cocksucker in the dictionary, then yeah, I can't actually blame Blizzard for banning it - those aren't your average dictionary-words.
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@dddarrenccc: Go
That's exactly the attitude I'm trying to prevent, tbh. I'm all for free speech and all that bla, but that doesnt change the fact that when I'm joining a custom game I don't want to be spammed with words like cocksucker and whoremongerer. I know the whole concept of 'offensive' usually is a joke, but it makes a lot of sense here. Technically I could go walk around naked because I can go with the opinion that "if someone takes offense, that's his problem, not mine", but that doesn't change the fact that I wouldn't want to get ugly naked dudes shoved in my face when I leave my house. Decency for the sake of decency is retarded, decency purely for the sake of not needlessly bugging a bunch of people with your indecency is something I approve of.
Well sure, I could go on about how the lack of empirical evidence along with personal experiences point towards Blizzard usually being on the tolerant side of the 'strictness spectrum', but I didn't deem it necessary. It really is a whole different discussion in itself - I'd happily go into it, but for the cause of just pointing out Rod's reasoning error, it's too much work.
You're still missing the point.
Problem with Starcraft: you go into a custom game, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'the majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
Problem with the football match in my analogy: you go into a football match, something you (and 'you' can be defined as 'they majority of players the game is intended for') dislike pops up, but 'a force' would prevent this from happening, which is a good thing.
It is completely irrelevant what the source of said dislikeable thing is for its removal to be a good thing, in both cases.
@ElJiggles: Go
Which is what I said. "At the very least, we can't know for certain". Also, in regards to your comments on my analogy - that matters jack all? The fact is that the streaker is ruining the match. It doesn't matter if the streaker is a random person, the map editor or john doe - as long as he's gone. In this particular case, it would probably be more of a confused naked footballer than a streaker, I guess, but that doesn't really matter - I just don't want to see naked dudes in my football match.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions. They specifically said initially that the map was band for words 'such as 'Dyke', naming that one as an example. You cannot possibly know whether Blizz would ban a map based on one edgy word - all you're doing now is speculating.
No, this is not true. At the very least, we don't know this. Judging from what I've seen from your list now, I'm pretty convinced that if you just had ONE semi-bad word in the map, Blizzard wouldn't haved banned it outright, or at the very least they would have been even more susceptible to your plea than they were now. This is what my whole point was in that thread about the legal rules that come with the editor; Blizzard isn't a completely draconian company - they generally use some measure of reason when banning maps/alledged obscenities.
@Colt556: Go
This is kind of a moot point, tbh. Look at it like this - do you like football? Ever watched a fun an intensive match to suddenly be interrupted by a streaker running naked across the field? That's what situations like these are. Sure, I can tell you "WELL THEN DON'T WATCH FOOTBALL!", but that would really lead to you not ever being able to watch/participate in any kind of amusement for the fear of having it ruined. Once again - I'm not a soft person, but when I'm happily playing some custom games on Starcraft 2 I don't suddenly want to find myself in a map where people are just yelling stuff like Asshole, Cocksucker and Analingus to eachother. Yeah sure, I can just 'not play the map', but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather not have to cope with that shit in the first place.
@Colt556: Go
My point still stands as well, though - I'm not saying we necissarily 'need Blizzard to meddle'. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't exactly 'out of bound' here. Like I said, I'm a real advocate for people being able to say whatever the hell they want, as its always the interpreter's "fault" if he "takes offense" - those are his feelings. That doesn't change the fact, however, that Starcraft 2 is an online game. People play it for entertainment. You shouldn't force yourself to utter your junk anyway. If I want to chill out and do some Starcraft, I do not need to be spammed with "cocksucker" and "whoremonger". If Blizzard's 'meddling' achieves this, then honestly, I don't mind it. As long as they don't go overboard - which they haven't in this case.
@RodrigoAlves: Go
I know you didn't mean bad by this. Your idea of using a dictionary as a source was downright brilliant - it's the kind of extra stuff that makes maps excellent instead of good. I'm not blaming you for what happened in your map - I'm just saying Blizz wasn't really as out of line here as people are making it sound. In this case, neither you or Blizz did something bad - your good idea just backfired on you, that is all. Sure, Blizz could have handled it better than just instantly banning the map, which was a bit extreme, but overall, I can blame neither you nor Blizz for your actions.
@Colt556: Go
Check the list Rodrigo used for his map, he uploaded it in his other topic. His map wasn't just banned because of the word 'dyke'. There was stuff like cocksucker, whoremonger, petcock and hoecake in there too. You can't expect Blizz to *not* ban a map that requires you to actively type out words like that to beat it. I'm all for eliminating censorship, but stuff like that simply has no place in a game made for entertainment, regardless of how it's used.
Sure you didn't know about those words, but like the letter mentions, you can't blame Blizzard for that. Fact of the matter is that you released a map where people were actively supposed to type words like "cocksucker" to eachother. You can't expect them to allow that - this isn't just words with double meanings, these are words that are used and created for the sole purpose of downtalking somebody.
I'm not saying it's entirely your fault or something, but really, wouldn't you want to ban someone from your map if he was actively typing words like whoremongerer and cocksucker?
Looks like I did judge too soon in the other topic - though to be fair, I went with the info I had, which was the one word 'dyke'. If you actually had stuff like whoremonger and cocksucker in the dictionary, then yeah, I can't actually blame Blizzard for banning it - those aren't your average dictionary-words.