How does this differ from Progammers lagless WASD system?
If I remember correctly he used transcient abilities too, but in the end there still was lag :x
The amount of players does not seem to have the huge effect on B.net games as long as everyone have a decent ping.
We had a test with vector a little over a week ago with 8 players and there were no noticeable difference between 8 and 2 players.
I tbh havent tried Progammers lagless WASD but this is certainly far from "lag-free".
Honestly its virtually make no difference. I tried many times with my WASD, its just simply used data for some fun exploring the data editor, the latency for accepting an input, whether ability or key press is about the same, you just dont notice it because you're normally playing melee game instead of first person. When you're first person, you expect it to be more responsive hence the illusion.
Your key board events are still gonna lagg because bnet needs to detect the key press prior to doing anything....
I have even simpler code then what your using on a bnet game and there is still a slight delay nothing can be done about this .... other then game should not rely too heavily on wasd movements/ unless its a co-op game or something
Why do you believe using "key press" attack is gonna save any lag vs "mouse press"..... so not the case from my testing.
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Data is maybe > trigger, but Trigger ∉ Data
Data is more static then trigger.
About mouse press, blizzard said:
Only register for this event when you absolutely need it, as it will generate network traffic from all players for every mouse click they make.
I don't use keypress, if u have ever opened my map.
I use a fake ability.
I think u should test the map with maybe 15 players.
I would enjoy to play with you guys, and test how many player could play lag free, with my engine.
I've tested vector with malu on bnet yesterday and we got absolutely no problems with lag. Somehow I even believe it got even better since most of the triggers and additional data are stored in seperate mods.
Sounds like your using dummy abilities to determine which key the player is pressing but using "facing direction" of camera to determine which direction to order the unit to move.
I thought thier change to "key events" made the key press events just as responsive as the "ability command presses" ??? I thought that was the intent anyways of what they did in the latest patch
for one thing... this one works if the camera is in "follow mode"
This is prolly the quickest way to order the unit to a position... But imo SC2 just isnt made for "WASD FPS" games
the mouse events are just as fast as the key press events you, just need to code them properly so they dont generate rediculous network traffic. If done correctly theres no reason to use key board events over mouse click events.
U want to tell me, i can use key down and key up + mouse right click with no performance lost?
I would like to test it out...
Yes you should be-able to... but each player will require thier own trigger for it... because you have to turn the trigger off.... wait ... then turn it back on but it shouldnt be an issue.... its no different then if a player would spam the "key press event"
Where it would really kill you is the "mouse move event".... that one definately deserves a warning......
I have used it with out any issues.... but thats single player.... but then again.... generally write stuff with proformance in mind from the start
Could prolly do mouse look as well..... i mean if you want a "true" fps feel..... then the "a" and "d" keys would be for strafing.
Then make it so the unit doesnt turn when moving.... so the unit actually strafes from side to side...
Key press events should have the same delay now as ability usage events comming from the command card... or thats what they said in the patch
if youve seen the "water works" demo youll notice they made an amazing FPS game that suffered too much from the terrible FPS handling of the SC2 engine.
To be honest Avo..... this engine your presenting here.... will suffer the same playing online...
Theres still too much delay for my liking even using abilities for controlling movements
Movements tend to get a stutter effect depending on how you have the /move increments set
SC2 graphics can get bogged down a bit in FPS view.. with too much going on\
simple 1-2 player co-op games though sc2 wouldnt be a bad experience.
Key press events should have the same delay now as ability usage events comming from the command card... or thats what they said in the patch
if youve seen the "water works" demo youll notice they made an amazing FPS game that suffered too much from the terrible FPS handling of the SC2 engine.
To be honest Avo..... this engine your presenting here.... will suffer the same playing online...
Theres still too much delay for my liking even using abilities for controlling movements
Movements tend to get a stutter effect depending on how you have the /move increments set
SC2 graphics can get bogged down a bit in FPS view.. with too much going on\
simple 1-2 player co-op games though sc2 wouldnt be a bad experience.
U think to theoretical.
I made 15 player game, so I can test with any number of players.
Why do u think, i didn't test my engine on bnet, before I publish it.
Graphic Test (Single Player)
and I can tell u now, that with my geforce 260. I got in 1280x720 ultra mode 60 fps, which is max for a lcd monidor.
IN ANY DIRECTION of the map, there is no fps drop.
The latest test map is 256x256,it has 18000 terrain footage 600 units and 24 fire doodads.
I did this map to proof, that lag free play is possible.
The single player performance is unbeatable.
BNET
the chalenge is always testing, anything i changed need to be tested with a team on bnet.
I can tell u that there is no performance drop down with 5 normal players.
Because the network traffic is minimal. I never used any traffic-heavy function.
What does performance lag have to do with your movement system? Nothing. It's your hardware and the amount of doodads/units/etc that create performance lags, and not the movement system.
And performance lag has absolutely nothing to do with network latency.
Also:
Network traffic ≠ network latency.
Just because you're using key-press events doesn't mean your latency increases.
And now about testing:
I don't know with how many people you tested this online, but it also doesn't really matter. Latency is a very unstable thing. You could play full house with next-to-no latency one day, and then another day you play with just a few people sky-high pings.
To detect which system is fastest you'll have to test all systems with the same group of people and the same network load for everyone.
My guess is that, when you tested it, you had a stable connection to everyone and thus relatively little lag. Other WASD systems would have performed the same under these conditions.
I really don't see a reason why this system should be faster than other Data-driven systems..
Why do another WASD TPS engine.
How did I solve that problem with LAGs
About this Control
Project Link+Download
Would like to got some feedback.
And don't forget me, if u use part of this map :D
How does this differ from Progammers lagless WASD system?
If I remember correctly he used transcient abilities too, but in the end there still was lag :x
@s3rius: Go I checked his map.
He use effect-create persistant, to move unit in a static way.
I use position and player camera yaw to detemine the direction. so i can go to a place 30 degree away from north. His unit can only go north-west.
Progammers could use unit facing but he can't turn his unit freely with data .
And I think trigger based event is faster then ability->effect->behaviour->issue order move.
Just ability->issue order :D
For jump, I really needed the apply force effect. But it will not work. So i use trigger - move instantly for 10 times.
My engine is optimized for TPS.
60 FPS by looking directly into 18000 terrain footages.
without skybox and other tricks
Made a little test to compare it with traditional methods on battle.net. (listen to the keyboard click sound to get a timing refrence)
Can't really tell the diffrence.
@malu05: Go
Test it with more then 4 players. upload it or find it on EU.
U can't compare a single player TPS with a multiplay TPS engine. Because that game will lag with 4-8 players normally.
For a single player game, i can use keydown and mouse click event without any problem.
@avogatro: Go
Its not singleplayer, its multiplayer.
The amount of players does not seem to have the huge effect on B.net games as long as everyone have a decent ping. We had a test with vector a little over a week ago with 8 players and there were no noticeable difference between 8 and 2 players.
I tbh havent tried Progammers lagless WASD but this is certainly far from "lag-free".
@avogatro: Go
Honestly its virtually make no difference. I tried many times with my WASD, its just simply used data for some fun exploring the data editor, the latency for accepting an input, whether ability or key press is about the same, you just dont notice it because you're normally playing melee game instead of first person. When you're first person, you expect it to be more responsive hence the illusion.
@malu05: Go
Why wreck your beautiful map with a camera and not fraps :P
@avogatro: Go
Data > trigger events
Your key board events are still gonna lagg because bnet needs to detect the key press prior to doing anything....
I have even simpler code then what your using on a bnet game and there is still a slight delay nothing can be done about this .... other then game should not rely too heavily on wasd movements/ unless its a co-op game or something
Why do you believe using "key press" attack is gonna save any lag vs "mouse press"..... so not the case from my testing.
@progammer: Go
No offense. U are great, I learned alot from your public maps.
I know your goal was exploring the limit of data editor.
But it is the fact that data editor can't get infomation like player camera yaw.
( proof me wrong, if u want)
I can move camera 360 degree and send unit to every degree i want.
That is why i use trigger.
@SouLCarveRR: Go
Data is maybe > trigger, but Trigger ∉ Data Data is more static then trigger.
About mouse press, blizzard said:
Only register for this event when you absolutely need it, as it will generate network traffic from all players for every mouse click they make.
I don't use keypress, if u have ever opened my map. I use a fake ability.
I think u should test the map with maybe 15 players. I would enjoy to play with you guys, and test how many player could play lag free, with my engine.
On EU Map Name: WASD NO LAG Test Map
@progammer: Go
oh, regarding the map... pretty easy answer, i haven't finished it yet ^^
@avogatro: Go
I've tested vector with malu on bnet yesterday and we got absolutely no problems with lag. Somehow I even believe it got even better since most of the triggers and additional data are stored in seperate mods.
@avogatro: Go
@SouLCarveRR: Go
U want to tell me, i can use key down and key up + mouse right click with no performance lost?
I would like to test it out...
@TheKC: Go
U can play vector with more then 1 friend? don't tell me u just did a 2 player game.
Yes you should be-able to... but each player will require thier own trigger for it... because you have to turn the trigger off.... wait ... then turn it back on but it shouldnt be an issue.... its no different then if a player would spam the "key press event"
Where it would really kill you is the "mouse move event".... that one definately deserves a warning......
I have used it with out any issues.... but thats single player.... but then again.... generally write stuff with proformance in mind from the start
Could prolly do mouse look as well..... i mean if you want a "true" fps feel..... then the "a" and "d" keys would be for strafing.
Then make it so the unit doesnt turn when moving.... so the unit actually strafes from side to side...
@avogatro: Go
Key press events should have the same delay now as ability usage events comming from the command card... or thats what they said in the patch
if youve seen the "water works" demo youll notice they made an amazing FPS game that suffered too much from the terrible FPS handling of the SC2 engine.
To be honest Avo..... this engine your presenting here.... will suffer the same playing online...
simple 1-2 player co-op games though sc2 wouldnt be a bad experience.
U think to theoretical.
I made 15 player game, so I can test with any number of players. Why do u think, i didn't test my engine on bnet, before I publish it.
Graphic Test (Single Player)
and I can tell u now, that with my geforce 260. I got in 1280x720 ultra mode 60 fps, which is max for a lcd monidor.
IN ANY DIRECTION of the map, there is no fps drop.
The latest test map is 256x256,it has 18000 terrain footage 600 units and 24 fire doodads.
I did this map to proof, that lag free play is possible. The single player performance is unbeatable.
BNET
the chalenge is always testing, anything i changed need to be tested with a team on bnet. I can tell u that there is no performance drop down with 5 normal players.
Because the network traffic is minimal. I never used any traffic-heavy function.
Future Plan
What does performance lag have to do with your movement system? Nothing. It's your hardware and the amount of doodads/units/etc that create performance lags, and not the movement system.
And performance lag has absolutely nothing to do with network latency.
Also:
Network traffic ≠ network latency.
Just because you're using key-press events doesn't mean your latency increases.
And now about testing:
I don't know with how many people you tested this online, but it also doesn't really matter. Latency is a very unstable thing. You could play full house with next-to-no latency one day, and then another day you play with just a few people sky-high pings.
To detect which system is fastest you'll have to test all systems with the same group of people and the same network load for everyone.
My guess is that, when you tested it, you had a stable connection to everyone and thus relatively little lag. Other WASD systems would have performed the same under these conditions.
I really don't see a reason why this system should be faster than other Data-driven systems..
@s3rius: Go
OK,sry, I didn't express myself cleary.
This is faster then other trigger driven engine.
This is as fast as pure data-driven systems.
This allows a 360 degree movement, more then a pure data-driven system can do.
It is better then a pure data-driven system.
@avogatro: Go
can it support "strafing" and "multi-directional controls" at the same time
@SouLCarveRR: Go Well...
U need to tell me, what strafing means for u: