@DrSuperEvil: Go
DK deserves a good revival (shame on Dungeons!)
BTW it seems I've been able to fix the room size algorithm for creatures requirements.
The hardest part is done, now I'll add a bunch of units and abilities and start to set up the game rules for single player.
The release is approaching :D
So I was playing Viva Piñata and I noticed something real cool. Certain creatures attracted other creatures. That seems like a great way to get players to use different types of creatures rather than only attempting to get the best one, or the top tier ones. In Viva Piñata, piñata predators were attracted to a garden (dungeon) if prey were in it. For example, an owl was attracted to a garden that had worms in it. Otherwise, it's other requirements didn't matter and the owl wouldn't visit.
This would add a new type of balancement and progression, which seemed to be lacking from dungeon keeper. Players will be required to get tier 1 creatures to obtain, tier 2 creatures, which would then attract tier 3 creatures. Notice how players are now using multiple creatures without sticking to just one. That way, portals will not have to cap creature types, because technically you'd need multiple creatures in order to even get a tier 3 creature.
For example...
-> = Attracts
Warlock -> Maiden -> Dark Angel
Requires 2 creatures to get dark angel and of course building requirements will remain the same as well. This is just an example, the dark angel could require more creatures to properly balance it.
Yea the idea is nice, however it changes drastically the gameplay strategies in a way I don't like.
It's like if in starcraft you needed 10 marines to build a siege tank and 5 tanks to make a thor, it would make all the games the same because everyone has to create all units.
Yea the idea is nice, however it changes drastically the gameplay strategies in a way I don't like.
It's like if in starcraft you needed 10 marines to build a siege tank and 5 tanks to make a thor, it would make all the games the same because everyone has to create all units.
Eh, Im not so sure. Don't you have to, say, build a factory before a starport? why is that? Does it really make sense that that is a prerequisite?
Yes but units are limited while buildings are unlimited.
In fact the amount of available units is capped so forcing you to have weaker creatures (in some cases more then 1 of the same type) is completely different.
The tech requirements are already ingame thanks to the new research system I made
Yes but units are limited while buildings are unlimited.
In fact the amount of available units is capped so forcing you to have weaker creatures (in some cases more then 1 of the same type) is completely different.
The tech requirements are already ingame thanks to the new research system I made
I don't see where you're going with this. In dungeon keeper creatures were always capped by a portals, each creature counted as one. In starcraft, a unit could be counted as two or more in which we consider food. My idea would just bring the same thing to the table but it'll be more interesting. If you think about it, an angel should count as more than one creature, but that would just be confusing which would make it user unfriendly.
Not only does it properly add a tier system, it will also force players to use more than one type of creature. Your new research system only adds a tier system for rooms, but you gotta understand that starter creatures will still be replaced. You're not giving them a reason to be used.
Dark angels were also capped to two per temple hand. Also the best unit was not always the top tier. Nothing like bile demons to tank and mistresses for pain.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
As I said I'm capping units by portals so you can't mass high level creatures with ease. Additionally it will allow me to use different caps in different maps giving more gameplay strategy depth.
I'll try to give an utility to every creature, I tought to a rock paper scissor system like
caster => melee => dps
So warlocks are always useful to kill tanks but are easy killable by dark elves & mistress and so on
In the old DK all units had a use as researchers or fighters but had different upkeep costs ("One of your Bile Demons is unhappy because he has not been payed"). Warlocks were weak ranged but were good researchers while mistresses were about the best cost for damage units with their lightning range attack and high melee damage but low hp. While bile demons were moderate damage and high hit point. Dark angels were just too few in number to out compete larger armies despite their skeleton summon and high damage. While vampires were a cheap all rounder if you had the land to spare.
As I said I'm capping units by portals so you can't mass high level creatures with ease. Additionally it will allow me to use different caps in different maps giving more gameplay strategy depth.
This is more of a workaround rather than a new and an improved feature for an older game. You're not eliminating the problem, you're just limiting it.
I'll try to give an utility to every creature, I tought to a rock paper scissor system like
caster => melee => dps
Melee and casters are both dps. So that doesn't make much sense to me. In my honest opinion you should not replicate the horrible combat roles that dungeon keeper 2 had. So making it a rock paper scissors idea is a good start. However the new modern roles we have now are tanks, mages, rogues, support, melee, and ranged. So you should use them to properly balance the game.
But a rather simple system could be imitating Runescapes Supposed Combat triangle, which is Mage > Warrior > Ranger.
That's what I was thinking of.
Support/Casters => creatures that have few hp but have powerful spells (warlock, mistress)
Tanks => creatures with high HP and moderate dps (death knights, vampires, bile demons, dark angels)
DPS => creatures with moderate HP and high dps (rogues, dark elves, skeletons)
That's the main idea, obviously it doesnt mean that a bile demon is powerful like a dark angel. Creatures in the same category can have different purposes, death knights are pure melee while dark angels have good spells too. In this case tanks are more vulnerable to casters then dps. However, having few hp they would easily die with noone defending them.
This will give more utility to all the available creatures in the game.
Why are the maps i want to play being made in EU? its not fair... :(
this looks great by the way! havent been interested in a game since they canceled Zergling Burgers (and what a sad tragedy that was) ill play it when it comes out for NA
I bought both EU and NA versions of the game when it came out and a community member already offered me to use his account in the past to upload maps on the australian servers, don't worry :P
BTW I just made my first single player terrain map for Hive Keeper:
Heck the game on which you are basing it is pretty timeless, any dedicated tribute has to be awesome.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
@DrSuperEvil: Go DK deserves a good revival (shame on Dungeons!)
BTW it seems I've been able to fix the room size algorithm for creatures requirements.
The hardest part is done, now I'll add a bunch of units and abilities and start to set up the game rules for single player.
The release is approaching :D
Of course this game will be successful, I can think of at least 4 other people who will play this game with me continuously.
So I was playing Viva Piñata and I noticed something real cool. Certain creatures attracted other creatures. That seems like a great way to get players to use different types of creatures rather than only attempting to get the best one, or the top tier ones. In Viva Piñata, piñata predators were attracted to a garden (dungeon) if prey were in it. For example, an owl was attracted to a garden that had worms in it. Otherwise, it's other requirements didn't matter and the owl wouldn't visit.
This would add a new type of balancement and progression, which seemed to be lacking from dungeon keeper. Players will be required to get tier 1 creatures to obtain, tier 2 creatures, which would then attract tier 3 creatures. Notice how players are now using multiple creatures without sticking to just one. That way, portals will not have to cap creature types, because technically you'd need multiple creatures in order to even get a tier 3 creature.
For example...
-> = Attracts
Warlock -> Maiden -> Dark Angel
Requires 2 creatures to get dark angel and of course building requirements will remain the same as well. This is just an example, the dark angel could require more creatures to properly balance it.
Yea the idea is nice, however it changes drastically the gameplay strategies in a way I don't like.
It's like if in starcraft you needed 10 marines to build a siege tank and 5 tanks to make a thor, it would make all the games the same because everyone has to create all units.
Eh, Im not so sure. Don't you have to, say, build a factory before a starport? why is that? Does it really make sense that that is a prerequisite?
@Ranakastrasz: Go
Yes but units are limited while buildings are unlimited.
In fact the amount of available units is capped so forcing you to have weaker creatures (in some cases more then 1 of the same type) is completely different.
The tech requirements are already ingame thanks to the new research system I made
I don't see where you're going with this. In dungeon keeper creatures were always capped by a portals, each creature counted as one. In starcraft, a unit could be counted as two or more in which we consider food. My idea would just bring the same thing to the table but it'll be more interesting. If you think about it, an angel should count as more than one creature, but that would just be confusing which would make it user unfriendly.
Not only does it properly add a tier system, it will also force players to use more than one type of creature. Your new research system only adds a tier system for rooms, but you gotta understand that starter creatures will still be replaced. You're not giving them a reason to be used.
Dark angels were also capped to two per temple hand. Also the best unit was not always the top tier. Nothing like bile demons to tank and mistresses for pain.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
Let the man work, Things are lookin great :D. I want this map Already lol.
As I said I'm capping units by portals so you can't mass high level creatures with ease. Additionally it will allow me to use different caps in different maps giving more gameplay strategy depth.
I'll try to give an utility to every creature, I tought to a rock paper scissor system like
caster => melee => dps
So warlocks are always useful to kill tanks but are easy killable by dark elves & mistress and so on
In the old DK all units had a use as researchers or fighters but had different upkeep costs ("One of your Bile Demons is unhappy because he has not been payed"). Warlocks were weak ranged but were good researchers while mistresses were about the best cost for damage units with their lightning range attack and high melee damage but low hp. While bile demons were moderate damage and high hit point. Dark angels were just too few in number to out compete larger armies despite their skeleton summon and high damage. While vampires were a cheap all rounder if you had the land to spare.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
This is more of a workaround rather than a new and an improved feature for an older game. You're not eliminating the problem, you're just limiting it.
Melee and casters are both dps. So that doesn't make much sense to me. In my honest opinion you should not replicate the horrible combat roles that dungeon keeper 2 had. So making it a rock paper scissors idea is a good start. However the new modern roles we have now are tanks, mages, rogues, support, melee, and ranged. So you should use them to properly balance the game.
Well.... A rock paper scissors system would work, as would any odd number of nodes, such as Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock.
But a rather simple system could be imitating Runescapes Supposed Combat triangle, which is Mage > Warrior > Ranger.
I see what you did there :D
That's what I was thinking of.
Support/Casters => creatures that have few hp but have powerful spells (warlock, mistress)
Tanks => creatures with high HP and moderate dps (death knights, vampires, bile demons, dark angels)
DPS => creatures with moderate HP and high dps (rogues, dark elves, skeletons)
That's the main idea, obviously it doesnt mean that a bile demon is powerful like a dark angel. Creatures in the same category can have different purposes, death knights are pure melee while dark angels have good spells too. In this case tanks are more vulnerable to casters then dps. However, having few hp they would easily die with noone defending them.
This will give more utility to all the available creatures in the game.
Beautiful as always :)
Hope you get a playable alpha/beta version soon, I'm sure with everyone testing it the project will come along nicely.
I've never played any DK but seeing your amazing mod, I wonder if I missed something :D
whatever, good luck with it. I looking forward to play this!
@mnadeau1992: Go
Oh, don't worry, you just missed the best strategy game of all times (yes, better then starcraft) :D
Why are the maps i want to play being made in EU? its not fair... :(
this looks great by the way! havent been interested in a game since they canceled Zergling Burgers (and what a sad tragedy that was) ill play it when it comes out for NA
@Dragenrder: Go
I bought both EU and NA versions of the game when it came out and a community member already offered me to use his account in the past to upload maps on the australian servers, don't worry :P
BTW I just made my first single player terrain map for Hive Keeper: