I think about unit "slots" more than pure tiers. I try to compare slots among standard races and this new race. "basic combat units" are marines/zealots/zerglings/scout drones. "second combat units" are marauders/roaches/stalkers/SCUs. There's an additional slot in this tier, but the roles are different, this slot is filled by reapers/banelings/sentries/?. None of these units is a standard combat unit, even banelings have to suicide so they provide a different strategy. This is why I was worried about the SCU and Clanker being in the same tier. The additional tier 1/1.5 unit must be chosen carefully to fill a role this race needs right now.
I think the clanker should be replaced with one of the lighter tier spellcasters. It might work out nicely. Having a spellcaster so early might just be a good idea. The protoss did it and that worked. Should we try the demolition droid or petard at tier 1.5?
I would be hesitant to use the demolition droid there. There is an idea that it can take control of enemy machine units, and having an MC unit that early might be questionable... *shrug*
Unless it gets put in the place of the sentries hallucinations. But in that case, I think it should be delaied a bit more.
Demolition droid's channeled attack disables structures so might be problematic if they were available too early. The mind control like ability could be enabled later via an upgrade.
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Maybe the demolition droid can be offered early game, but take a long time to build? Like for example, for protoss, warp gates are offered in early game, but they take a long time to upgrade.
@DrSuperEvil: Go We can always swap abilities like Blizzard did. I would'nt give a mind control ability to a cheap unit, even if the research is only avaiable in late game. The player will still be able to spam the unit and mind control lots of powerful units. An early spellcaster should only have minor buffs/debuffs or terrain effects, like Guardian Shield and Force Field.
Even though it is a suicide mind control against robotic/mechanical units only? Some how I fail to see marines and zerg worrying about it.
What about the spawn mutant larvae ability of the queen? That is quite a major ability.
How about this for a T1 spellcaster concept. The Battery Bot is able to autocast a buff that adds 15 shield to any ally unit that lasts forever or at least 180 secs, is able to transfer energy (at a slight loss) to other units and structures and as the final ability is able to release an all round electric shock (Electric Discharge?) at very close range that deals damage with bonus damage to mechanical/robotic units (can hurt allies?). Maybe the last ability drains all energy with some damage/range being energy fraction related?
@DrSuperEvil: Go By late game you wont waste your mind control on Marines and Zerglings, just like nobody uses Neural Parasite on cheap units, you're going for Colossi, Siege Tanks, Thors and air units. If the spellcaster is cheap other players wont like to loose expensive units to them.
One more thing we have to take into consideration: The standard races may have problems fighting this new one. As one small example Ghost's Snipe will be useless. We also have to plan for other things like Point Defense Drone, how many unit types will launch destructible missiles? Many small details may arise, I guess we should take note of them.
Lets see, low hp spellcaster needs to get to melee range to possess them, is not instant so they are exposed to heavy fire + target player gets to see visuals of the action occuring and you lose the spellcaster to gain them. Seems a fair tactic to me if the opponent cannot learn to focus fire on them before they are successful. As it will only be able to target robotic/mechanical units zerg would be completely immune and the tactic could be easily countered by the other races or just by paying attention.
Considering all zerg non melee units launch missiles and how many a battlecruiser launches per salvo, I do not think it will be that much of an issue. Also with the snipe issue, that would be one disadvantage but as all the units are robotic/mechanical marauders and other units super effective vs those types would have a large advantage.
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@DrSuperEvil: Go No, Marauders are better against armored. While the race will have only mechanic units, both light and armored will be present. We have to avoid situations where this race will be uneven depending on which race it is facing.
@DrSuperEvil: Go No, Marauders are better against armored. While the race will have only mechanic units, both light and armored will be present. We have to avoid situations where this race will be uneven depending on which race it is facing.
Well, The only problematic attributes that really effect gameplay is light, armored, massive, biological, and mechanical. Light, armored, and massive, to me, shouldn't be much of a problem. The only way That I can think of for there to be a biological unit on a robotic race is either A) There is 1 or 2 units that indicate that there are humans helping the race (Which would possibly require a small tweek in the backround story of the race), or B) There is a robotic, zombie like person that is maybe half human half robotic, which would make this unit biological, and mechanical (or robotic), and then light or armored (depending on the unit chosen). Other than that, I can't quite see how we could fit a biological unit.
If you don't mind, perhaps instead of redesigning the demo droid, I have a new idea for a unit.
It's a parasite style unit. It's a slow little robot with low life. It can walk up to structures and slowly take them over. But, it also has 2 other abilities. The first of them is an ability that creates a little spy bot on any unit, even an enemy. This little spy bot is unkillable, but the unit can be killed itself to disable it. The spy bot itself reveals a fairly large range, sometimes further than your own units. This could be used to either create good scouts or just to spy on enemies. Its last ability allows it to create a little floating drone that repairs nearby allies slowly. Can also repair shields maybe? Only lasts about 10 seconds? This ability doesn't stack with other drone thingys. How does this sound? It has a little bit of use and it can be pretty useful and it doesn't seem too powerful. I don't think demolition droid has anything to do with these types of abilities so I suggest a new unit entirely.
I think of it as
Terran T1: Marine, Reaper, Marauder
Toss T1: Zealot, Sentry, Stalker
Zerg T1: Zergling, Roach, Hydralisk(Sorta...)
@AtikLYar: Go
Zerg tier 1 is zergling roach baneling queen
Ah, I always forget about Queen...
Mostly because I consider her more a structure then a unit....
I would say marauder and reaper are T1.5, same as sentry and stalker.
Either way another T1/1.5 might be a good idea
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I think about unit "slots" more than pure tiers. I try to compare slots among standard races and this new race. "basic combat units" are marines/zealots/zerglings/scout drones. "second combat units" are marauders/roaches/stalkers/SCUs. There's an additional slot in this tier, but the roles are different, this slot is filled by reapers/banelings/sentries/?. None of these units is a standard combat unit, even banelings have to suicide so they provide a different strategy. This is why I was worried about the SCU and Clanker being in the same tier. The additional tier 1/1.5 unit must be chosen carefully to fill a role this race needs right now.
I would rate teirs based on the number of requirement buildings/upgrades needed to enable production.
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I think the clanker should be replaced with one of the lighter tier spellcasters. It might work out nicely. Having a spellcaster so early might just be a good idea. The protoss did it and that worked. Should we try the demolition droid or petard at tier 1.5?
@yukaboy: Go
I would be hesitant to use the demolition droid there. There is an idea that it can take control of enemy machine units, and having an MC unit that early might be questionable... *shrug*
Unless it gets put in the place of the sentries hallucinations. But in that case, I think it should be delaied a bit more.
Demolition droid's channeled attack disables structures so might be problematic if they were available too early. The mind control like ability could be enabled later via an upgrade.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
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Maybe the demolition droid can be offered early game, but take a long time to build? Like for example, for protoss, warp gates are offered in early game, but they take a long time to upgrade.
@DrSuperEvil: Go We can always swap abilities like Blizzard did. I would'nt give a mind control ability to a cheap unit, even if the research is only avaiable in late game. The player will still be able to spam the unit and mind control lots of powerful units. An early spellcaster should only have minor buffs/debuffs or terrain effects, like Guardian Shield and Force Field.
Even though it is a suicide mind control against robotic/mechanical units only? Some how I fail to see marines and zerg worrying about it.
What about the spawn mutant larvae ability of the queen? That is quite a major ability.
How about this for a T1 spellcaster concept. The Battery Bot is able to autocast a buff that adds 15 shield to any ally unit that lasts forever or at least 180 secs, is able to transfer energy (at a slight loss) to other units and structures and as the final ability is able to release an all round electric shock (Electric Discharge?) at very close range that deals damage with bonus damage to mechanical/robotic units (can hurt allies?). Maybe the last ability drains all energy with some damage/range being energy fraction related?
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
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@DrSuperEvil: Go By late game you wont waste your mind control on Marines and Zerglings, just like nobody uses Neural Parasite on cheap units, you're going for Colossi, Siege Tanks, Thors and air units. If the spellcaster is cheap other players wont like to loose expensive units to them.
One more thing we have to take into consideration: The standard races may have problems fighting this new one. As one small example Ghost's Snipe will be useless. We also have to plan for other things like Point Defense Drone, how many unit types will launch destructible missiles? Many small details may arise, I guess we should take note of them.
Lets see, low hp spellcaster needs to get to melee range to possess them, is not instant so they are exposed to heavy fire + target player gets to see visuals of the action occuring and you lose the spellcaster to gain them. Seems a fair tactic to me if the opponent cannot learn to focus fire on them before they are successful. As it will only be able to target robotic/mechanical units zerg would be completely immune and the tactic could be easily countered by the other races or just by paying attention.
Considering all zerg non melee units launch missiles and how many a battlecruiser launches per salvo, I do not think it will be that much of an issue. Also with the snipe issue, that would be one disadvantage but as all the units are robotic/mechanical marauders and other units super effective vs those types would have a large advantage.
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@DrSuperEvil: Go No, Marauders are better against armored. While the race will have only mechanic units, both light and armored will be present. We have to avoid situations where this race will be uneven depending on which race it is facing.
@SoulFilcher: Go
Well, The only problematic attributes that really effect gameplay is light, armored, massive, biological, and mechanical. Light, armored, and massive, to me, shouldn't be much of a problem. The only way That I can think of for there to be a biological unit on a robotic race is either A) There is 1 or 2 units that indicate that there are humans helping the race (Which would possibly require a small tweek in the backround story of the race), or B) There is a robotic, zombie like person that is maybe half human half robotic, which would make this unit biological, and mechanical (or robotic), and then light or armored (depending on the unit chosen). Other than that, I can't quite see how we could fit a biological unit.
If you don't mind, perhaps instead of redesigning the demo droid, I have a new idea for a unit.
It's a parasite style unit. It's a slow little robot with low life. It can walk up to structures and slowly take them over. But, it also has 2 other abilities. The first of them is an ability that creates a little spy bot on any unit, even an enemy. This little spy bot is unkillable, but the unit can be killed itself to disable it. The spy bot itself reveals a fairly large range, sometimes further than your own units. This could be used to either create good scouts or just to spy on enemies. Its last ability allows it to create a little floating drone that repairs nearby allies slowly. Can also repair shields maybe? Only lasts about 10 seconds? This ability doesn't stack with other drone thingys. How does this sound? It has a little bit of use and it can be pretty useful and it doesn't seem too powerful. I don't think demolition droid has anything to do with these types of abilities so I suggest a new unit entirely.
Sound good?
I don't like the overtaking buildings thing.... might just be me...
For the repair drone? Maybe just something to speed up shield recharge rate of nearby units?
You lot forgotten about the mending station of the Liner already?
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@DrSuperEvil: Go
Or maybe, I've never heard...