@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
Alright...I think I've finished for tonight. If you guys would like me to change it, just ask.
Just to say so, I'm actually quite surprised at how many roles have actually been filled and how many we might still want. However, I do have something to say. There seems to be a lot of early game units and not as many late and mid game units...just saying...
Yea, I think we might want a separate unit for artillery and maybe...just maybe...a separate unit for anti ground airship and in return remove a few low tech units that we don't need. I'm not the lead designer here and it's a public design thread, so I'm going to ask the people what units they think aren't needed and what roles do they think need to be filled.
Edit: Oh, and sorry about the messiness...
I'll give a little description of what this is....the top part has a list of units for each race describing each unit specifically and saying what their basic roles are. Then going down you will see I say It's time to balance some races. At that point down it's listing all the units that kind of have similar roles. Then it gives a description of what that role is, then it will say if a unit form the race fits or if it doesn't it just says 000000 and it says if it should be filled or if it's just a role that exists and isn't needed. The bottom has a blank space for any units that didn't fit, but I found some spots, so that's unimportant. That's about it.
The suicide role is filled by the unit spawned by the petard.
The queen/chronoboost/mule role is filled by the auto harvester
The demolition droid might be able to fit into the reaper role
Thought the assembly droid could fill the role as a fast scout
The liner fills in the ghost/dt role as well as the raven role or should we think of another?
The banshee/immortal are pretty much unique units for that race covering a different niche.
The artillery of the liner does long range high anti building damage but is weak vs other units.
Each race tends to only have 3 spell casters like protoss sentry/high templar/mothership, terran with raven/ghost and zerg with overseer/corruptor/queen
Althought we could think of a T2 bomber.
The Thor/colossus/ultralisk all fall into the T3 heavy land category while the carrier/battlecruiser/broodlord are T3 air
Ideas:
If we add more units we will have to update the defence structure's upgrades when they are absorbed
As the T2 unique combat unit how about Limpet, a domelike spider robot with two spiked shields that it has covering each half. It can root into the spot to gain a large armor boost and has the ability to be upgraded with life regen or a taunt aura that forces all nearby enemies to attack it (only one taunt aura is effective at once).
With the T2 bomber we can just call it Bomber and give it a strafe weapon, a behaviour that keeps pushing it forward and an issue order behaviour that activates when it reaches it's destination so it keeps circling over the same location, it also has a large turn arc. Weapon wise it drops napalm bombs dealing a line of damage in the direction it is flying that then creates small fires that deal damage over time
Lets just throw the anti economy and second air spellcaster roles into one with the Abductor. A low hp fast flying unit capable of loading up 3 enemy 1 food units but not dropping them. Inside the cargo hold a behaviour is added that slowly damages them over time. Also can use a nanocontamination ability that adds a buff to resources that slows the rate of harvesting to a fraction of it's usual.
For the scout we could make it slow moving but it spawns regular small fast 1hp flying cameras with a timed life that it sends in random directions with limited line of sight (using an external Arm Magazine ability combined with the Wander behaviour on the ammo units).
As for artillery, how about the Ion Cannon. A high food high cost structure that launches a satellite unit that is high altitude and not commandable or targetable by all units except aa structures. The satellite only does medium damage with a very slow attack speed but has long range (16?) and stuns any structure/robotic/mechanical unit it hits for 3 seconds. The satellite is ordered to move to a new location by an ability with a cooldown on the structure. This lack of instant moving forces it to have a more strategic role rather than a harrasment strategy.
@yukaboy: Go Good job. I'd merge some roles there, the Oracle fills the Air Spellcaster role, just like the Viper or Raven, its abilities are focused against economy only because Blizzard thought Protoss lack harass strategies, its not supposed to be a specific role. By going through that file I'd say the Scout Drone shouldn't be able to attack air, leave that to the SCU. Make the Scout Drone a short-ranged but fast unit.
As you said mid game and late game units need to be revised, maybe 1 or 2 should get scrapped or replaced by new units. You forgot that all transport units have additional abilities, like SuperEvil said the Medivac also fills the medic role. Our trnasport unit must also provide something else. The satandard Hauler can launch units, my idea was different, we have to decide which one we're going to use. I suggest including both in the map file so we can use them and choose one later.
EDIT: What about placing all the units in the same role side by side in that file? Or 3 columns, one for each standard race, I think it would be even easier for us to compare them.
No scrapping units, we just save them for the campaign (Leviathans and Hivemind Emulators are not as common in melee as one would like).
And I agree an excel table of each unit vs role would be good. Do not forget structures too since the mule, queen and protoss town hall all act as economy boosters.
@DrSuperEvil: Go I know, I was talking about the melee tech tree. One more thing: we can't have both the SCU and the Clanker, one of them has to be moved to higher tier. They fill the same unit "slot" right now.
I think...I did this right...I did it based on my knowledge...it's a new doc with the roles that I know of and what units fit them based on what I know
Oh, and here's a capitol ship I was working on. I'd post it in data, but I don't know if you guys would want this in there. So, what do you think? It was originally for my own purposes, but I've given up sicne I couldn't find a way to tint the sentry beam and the explosion red.
Anyway, what do you think? Could this work for the powerhouse air?
@DrSuperEvil: Go Yes, but we need to define how early players have access to Clankers. As soon as they have both drones and SCUs? I guess it should be later in the game.
@yukaboy: Go You can use the Laser Drill beam for that. Does it have a small AOE?
Bonuses: Attacks bounce once dealing 2 dmg instead of 2 to the 2nd target?
Abilities: Can be upgraded to make defensive structures spawn 1-2 scout drones on death
Edit: Oh and for tiers, the way I define it is by how many buildings were needed to be built. So for example marine is tier 1 marauder reaper hellion are tier 1.5 but I call em tier 1. Siege tank ghost viking and medivac tier 2. Banshee and raven tier 2.5. And finally, thor battlecruiser tier 3.
Na how can lasers bounce and do damage. Also the race upgrades individual units so yours sounds just a tad outside the concept. Considering even zerglings have 35 life, the scout droness better be under 18 minerals each then.
Edit: As for your battlecruiser map, try using some Action actors next time.
Although I do like the idea of the scout drone being a broodling type unit, where it pops out of buildings when the buildings are destroyed. Maybe each building can have a single upgrade, and cost a certain amount of minerals? Or maybe upgrade scout drones to load into buildings to add extra support? (Load 5 scout drones into a building, and they can fire at targets in a certain radius?
Now that is an idea that fits more into the theme of this race. Allow each structure to be individually upgraded to allow loading of troops like a bunker.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
@yukaboy: Go Although is good, I'd say a comparison with each races' unit of that role/tier would be better. Like 1st infantry unit: Marine vs Zergling vs Zealot vs Scout Drone. I think it would be better for us to think about balance, roles and so on. There's no need to add a description like you did, focus on gameplay info like Late Game: Charge ability (w/ speed increase). We can do the same for all tiers/roles to see how we're shaping this new race.
Alright. If I went the fast and easy way that you suggested, I suppose...I could do it tonight and fairly easily. Gimme an hour or so.
Alright...I think I've finished for tonight. If you guys would like me to change it, just ask.
Just to say so, I'm actually quite surprised at how many roles have actually been filled and how many we might still want. However, I do have something to say. There seems to be a lot of early game units and not as many late and mid game units...just saying...
Yea, I think we might want a separate unit for artillery and maybe...just maybe...a separate unit for anti ground airship and in return remove a few low tech units that we don't need. I'm not the lead designer here and it's a public design thread, so I'm going to ask the people what units they think aren't needed and what roles do they think need to be filled.
Edit: Oh, and sorry about the messiness...
I'll give a little description of what this is....the top part has a list of units for each race describing each unit specifically and saying what their basic roles are. Then going down you will see I say It's time to balance some races. At that point down it's listing all the units that kind of have similar roles. Then it gives a description of what that role is, then it will say if a unit form the race fits or if it doesn't it just says 000000 and it says if it should be filled or if it's just a role that exists and isn't needed. The bottom has a blank space for any units that didn't fit, but I found some spots, so that's unimportant. That's about it.
You forgot about the medic role.
The suicide role is filled by the unit spawned by the petard.
The queen/chronoboost/mule role is filled by the auto harvester
The demolition droid might be able to fit into the reaper role
Thought the assembly droid could fill the role as a fast scout
The liner fills in the ghost/dt role as well as the raven role or should we think of another?
The banshee/immortal are pretty much unique units for that race covering a different niche.
The artillery of the liner does long range high anti building damage but is weak vs other units.
Each race tends to only have 3 spell casters like protoss sentry/high templar/mothership, terran with raven/ghost and zerg with overseer/corruptor/queen
Althought we could think of a T2 bomber.
The Thor/colossus/ultralisk all fall into the T3 heavy land category while the carrier/battlecruiser/broodlord are T3 air
Ideas:
If we add more units we will have to update the defence structure's upgrades when they are absorbed
As the T2 unique combat unit how about Limpet, a domelike spider robot with two spiked shields that it has covering each half. It can root into the spot to gain a large armor boost and has the ability to be upgraded with life regen or a taunt aura that forces all nearby enemies to attack it (only one taunt aura is effective at once).
With the T2 bomber we can just call it Bomber and give it a strafe weapon, a behaviour that keeps pushing it forward and an issue order behaviour that activates when it reaches it's destination so it keeps circling over the same location, it also has a large turn arc. Weapon wise it drops napalm bombs dealing a line of damage in the direction it is flying that then creates small fires that deal damage over time
Lets just throw the anti economy and second air spellcaster roles into one with the Abductor. A low hp fast flying unit capable of loading up 3 enemy 1 food units but not dropping them. Inside the cargo hold a behaviour is added that slowly damages them over time. Also can use a nanocontamination ability that adds a buff to resources that slows the rate of harvesting to a fraction of it's usual.
For the scout we could make it slow moving but it spawns regular small fast 1hp flying cameras with a timed life that it sends in random directions with limited line of sight (using an external Arm Magazine ability combined with the Wander behaviour on the ammo units).
As for artillery, how about the Ion Cannon. A high food high cost structure that launches a satellite unit that is high altitude and not commandable or targetable by all units except aa structures. The satellite only does medium damage with a very slow attack speed but has long range (16?) and stuns any structure/robotic/mechanical unit it hits for 3 seconds. The satellite is ordered to move to a new location by an ability with a cooldown on the structure. This lack of instant moving forces it to have a more strategic role rather than a harrasment strategy.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
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@yukaboy: Go Good job. I'd merge some roles there, the Oracle fills the Air Spellcaster role, just like the Viper or Raven, its abilities are focused against economy only because Blizzard thought Protoss lack harass strategies, its not supposed to be a specific role. By going through that file I'd say the Scout Drone shouldn't be able to attack air, leave that to the SCU. Make the Scout Drone a short-ranged but fast unit.
As you said mid game and late game units need to be revised, maybe 1 or 2 should get scrapped or replaced by new units. You forgot that all transport units have additional abilities, like SuperEvil said the Medivac also fills the medic role. Our trnasport unit must also provide something else. The satandard Hauler can launch units, my idea was different, we have to decide which one we're going to use. I suggest including both in the map file so we can use them and choose one later.
EDIT: What about placing all the units in the same role side by side in that file? Or 3 columns, one for each standard race, I think it would be even easier for us to compare them.
No scrapping units, we just save them for the campaign (Leviathans and Hivemind Emulators are not as common in melee as one would like).
And I agree an excel table of each unit vs role would be good. Do not forget structures too since the mule, queen and protoss town hall all act as economy boosters.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg
@DrSuperEvil: Go I know, I was talking about the melee tech tree. One more thing: we can't have both the SCU and the Clanker, one of them has to be moved to higher tier. They fill the same unit "slot" right now.
Clanker is the merged upgrade of SCU + 2 scout drones if you hadnt noticed so I see no problem
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
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I think...I did this right...I did it based on my knowledge...it's a new doc with the roles that I know of and what units fit them based on what I know
The (#) is the tier and I put a ? if I didnt know
Oh, and here's a capitol ship I was working on. I'd post it in data, but I don't know if you guys would want this in there. So, what do you think? It was originally for my own purposes, but I've given up sicne I couldn't find a way to tint the sentry beam and the explosion red.
Anyway, what do you think? Could this work for the powerhouse air?
@DrSuperEvil: Go Yes, but we need to define how early players have access to Clankers. As soon as they have both drones and SCUs? I guess it should be later in the game.
@yukaboy: Go You can use the Laser Drill beam for that. Does it have a small AOE?
@SoulFilcher: Go
Yea
I didn't notice that...
So, let me get this straight for a quick update of the document...
Tier 1 ground: Scout, SCU, Drillbot ?
Or is the drillbot still going to be a T2/T1.5? Because if so, we'll need another T1 unit...
Also, an idea for the scout drone: Make it short range, and able to attack while moving...
That would make it extremely effective against Zerglings and Zealots. I don't think this is a good idea.
Drillbot is still T1.5/2, how are you lot defining tiers. Only T1 units most races have are marine/zergling/zealot, overseer or builder.
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How about...
Scout Drone
Life: 15
Shields: 15
Weapon: Range of 4 dmg 5 weaponspeed 0.90 or so
Speed: 3-4 maybe 4-5
Bonuses: Attacks bounce once dealing 2 dmg instead of 2 to the 2nd target?
Abilities: Can be upgraded to make defensive structures spawn 1-2 scout drones on death
Edit: Oh and for tiers, the way I define it is by how many buildings were needed to be built. So for example marine is tier 1 marauder reaper hellion are tier 1.5 but I call em tier 1. Siege tank ghost viking and medivac tier 2. Banshee and raven tier 2.5. And finally, thor battlecruiser tier 3.
Na how can lasers bounce and do damage. Also the race upgrades individual units so yours sounds just a tad outside the concept. Considering even zerglings have 35 life, the scout droness better be under 18 minerals each then.
Edit: As for your battlecruiser map, try using some Action actors next time.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
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@yukaboy: Go
Although I do like the idea of the scout drone being a broodling type unit, where it pops out of buildings when the buildings are destroyed. Maybe each building can have a single upgrade, and cost a certain amount of minerals? Or maybe upgrade scout drones to load into buildings to add extra support? (Load 5 scout drones into a building, and they can fire at targets in a certain radius?
Now that is an idea that fits more into the theme of this race. Allow each structure to be individually upgraded to allow loading of troops like a bunker.
Contribute to the wiki (Wiki button at top of page) Considered easy altering of the unit textures?
https://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/179654-data-actor-events-message-texture-select-by-id
https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/187/40/Screenshot2011-04-17_09_16_21.jpg