Note to self: those arenas need a payload of work.
Yeah, that's our pretty much un-doodaded debugging arena :P For those who don't know, Terraining those is especially difficult because they aren't "really" terrained. The arenas are all totally empty upon loading, and the doodads, textures, and walls (if any) are all created on-the-fly. This is so that we can make the theme of the arena match the zone you're fighting in.
Yeah, that's our pretty much un-doodaded debugging arena :P For those who don't know, Terraining those is especially difficult because they aren't "really" terrained. The arenas are all totally empty upon loading, and the doodads, textures, and walls (if any) are all created on-the-fly. This is so that we can make the theme of the arena match the zone you're fighting in.
Isn't it easier to fill up the arena with a shitload of doodads and hide them all, using triggers to show the ones applicable to the current battle zone?
hahahah we think a like :P I did that when I was trying to make a run kitty run map(i suck at triggers) the plan was to make over 200 mazes in a small map, but I couldn't get it to work right. it was very laggy before I finished trying (about 25 mazes :P).
I can honestly see where Zelda is coming from... if I were a coding nut I'd probably also consider the idea of spawning doodads where I want them, when I want them. It might be that because I'm a terrainer that I came up with a completely different solution, mostly 'cause it'll be impossibly hard to spawn doodads on the fly and get a good-looking terrain. Our terrain needn't be all that laggy, we're talking maybe 10X15 doodads for all specific types of battle terrain, I think.
Could just be that Zelda had the same idea but ran into difficulties though, I guess.
I think the issue is the limitations of the trigger editor - Not sure how many functions concerning doodads there are.
Just checked, and couldn't find any way to reference doodad/actor type of existing doodads (There's simply nothing that can say "Yea, that's a tree", as far as triggers are concerned, every doodad is identical), so I wouldn't know how we could duplicate doodads through triggers.
There are some alternatives, none of them very fun to work with. Mozared, poke me the next time you're on skype so that we can discuss what method we will use.
@Taintedwisp: Go
Could just be that Zelda had the same idea but ran into difficulties though, I guess.
Basically this. The way I did it was the only way we could find that was possible, since there's no way to reference pre-made doodads in triggers, really. That said, Maity may have found a workaround that will allow you to actually set down the doodads via the terrain editor... Either way it's going to be a little tricky. But if if wasn't tricky, it wouldn't be fun ^.^
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New abilities for u(Zelda please tell me whether you are still accepting these I'm trying REALLY hard to not be annoying ","
Deathtouch-all ghost and dark type attacks this starmon uses double in power when hit by a normal or grass-type attack.
Static guard-when this starmon is hit by a superefective electric-type move and is paralyzed, leech about an "absorb"s worth of life every turn
Valience-whenever this starmon is hit by a dark-type move, restore its energy.
Spot Weakness-whenever this starmon attacks, the move it uses has a +10% chance to be a critical hit. As soon as this starmon is hit with a superefective or critical hit it can no longer concentrate on using this ability and therefore this effect is neutralized(I put that in there so that its not just an op focus energy)
Vigilance-prevent superefective damage to this starmon(essentially a reverse wonder guard)
One Step Ahead-prevent all effects with under 100 accuracy
Throw Off-as soon as the fight begins the opponent loses two stages of accuracy
Swift Attacks-you always go first until hit by a superefective move.
Point Blank-moves you controll have higher accuracy and always deal physical damage, and get a +5% critical hit chance.
I hope this helps would it not be possible to have the doodads pre-placed in a region say Dessert Tree's (Region) with cacti's, and Forrest Tree's (Region) with Oak, Ash ect. Then Mountain Debris with rocks, stone archway,ect and just move them between the Arena (Region) area and there storage Region. I was Thinking a Pick All Doodads in Dessert Tree's (Region) and move to Random Point in Arena (Region).
My Projects:
Sorted Multiplayer Leader Board
Card Shuffle Dialog Demo
Air Wars Mass
Blizzard Fan since Starcraft. The Single Player story is AMAZING IMO, I can't wait for the Expansions. In Warcraft 3 I only enjoy the Custom Maps scene (& Blizzards...
Two issues with that, iirc there is no "pick all doodads" and "move doodad to point" option in the trigger editor, and Actor messages are not capable of moving them either ("Send Actor Message to Region" is the closest you can get to pick all doodads).
The second issue is that there would then only be one set of doodads per biome - So technically seen we could just leave that set of doodads in the arena in the first place. We need at least 8 sets (Final number will be determined once we're done with the terrain and see how much space we have for arenas - That will determine the player number), and that's for each region. Storing them in a seperate area of the map would not really help us any more than making as many arenas - Only space we'd be saving is what the cliffs would be taking up...
Thanks for trying to help though :)
What I'm thinking of doing is giving all doodads of each set a specific alias (like _Desert, _Forest, etc.), cramming all sets into each arena once they're done, hiding them by default and then sending an actor message to all doodads with appropriate alias to show them when they are needed. Will have to discuss with Mozared first though.
New abilities for u(Zelda please tell me whether you are still accepting these I'm trying REALLY hard to not be annoying ","
Here's the deal with abilities- We're going to be making them after we develop the starmon. We feel it's better to make starmon and then create cool and well-suited abilities for them, instead of creating abilities first and trying to fit them in to a starmon. Obviously not everything you suggest will go into the game (we can only make so many) but they serve as good inspiration. Simple SideQuest ideas are probably the most useful thing right now. :)
I put in some minor stuff earlier this week- First of all, I made some changes to banks. I had starmon data packed in as tightly as it would fit, but now that we need to store more information, we were running into issues. Basically there's an internal limit to how long any bank key can be, and if we go over that, your data is totally messed up. Luckily though the bank size limit was upped substantially after we started the project, so it's easy to fix and works properly now.
Second of all, we implemented shiny starmon. These are extremely rare starmon who are just like regular starmon, but they glow and have an alternate color pallet. They're not stronger, tougher, or anything like that, they're just...special :P The probability of any randomly generated starmon being shiny is currently 0.09%. We've also taken some measures to make hacking starmon to be shiny trickier than it would be usually (although as always, dedicated hackers will always find a way). So in other words, if you happen to find one of these, you're a very, very lucky person. And if you happen to find one and kill it accidentally.... You're gunna be a very, veryunhappy person ;) We'll get you guys some screenshots soon(ish).
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["]Simple["] SideQuest ideas are probably the most useful thing right now. :)
So, if you guys don't have a Jade Figurine type quest, they are great little goodies. For those of you who are not familiar with this term that I may have just coined now, a "Jade Figurine" quest refers to a Diablo 2, Act 3 quest where one finds a Jade Figurine after killing a random hero/unique monster. You then trade it with the guy who took you in his boat to that jungle for a Golden Bird. It turns out the bird holds the ashes of a man who studied immortality of sorts, so you get extra life by turning it into a potion.
My point is, stumbling through the woods, finding a thingy (either held by a starmon, if hold items happen, or on the ground) that looks special would be awesome. Imagine having beaten the 6th gym leader (I don't know the equivalent, haven't read this thread in a while) and getting access to some new area. you derp down a side path and find a weird cave. Upon entering and exploring, it's an ancient temple thingy. Inside you find a rare dude, or some random item thingy and decide to take it. You take it back to town, as it seems important. Someone gives you a starmon egg, or a "rare candy" or a "pp max" that increases energy. Something like that.
Maybe the quest turns into a Biggoron Sword quest, and you re-explore the whole starmon world (with new travel abilities) trading back and forth before you get a really nice reward. Maybe it turns out that the "figurine" is part of a set, and if you find the other 6 that are in different "towns" or "areas" then you get the thingy. Maybe it's only worth 10 money. Maybe it lets you carry one extra starmon in your party. Idk.
EDIT: Skimmed through the last half of the thread. It's HUGE!!! anyhow:
Oh, and guys, you need an escort mission! Fun version: Double battle trek through a gorge against multiple team evil ambushes. You are aided by a Mr.Good-Guy or Ally-for-the-moment and a damsel-in-distress follows you. Not fun version: Double battle trek through a field of bizarre fiends and jagged cliffs. Your companion is actually quite bad at starmon, but you can't let any of his/her dudes faint.
Either one has opportunity for a prequest where you find some girl being mugged or a cat stuck up a tree.
Awesome to hear you can do more with the Bigger Bank Limit now, and Bonus that you've been able to add Shiny Starmon. Very impressive addition to the map.
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My Projects:
Sorted Multiplayer Leader Board
Card Shuffle Dialog Demo
Air Wars Mass
Blizzard Fan since Starcraft. The Single Player story is AMAZING IMO, I can't wait for the Expansions. In Warcraft 3 I only enjoy the Custom Maps scene (& Blizzards...
Alright guys, being gamers and mod devs, I'm sure you already know about all the tropes. If you don't, go here and learn. I bring them up because they can sometimes be good inspiration for additional content. My writer friend, artist friend and I (game consumer) like browsing through this reference for narrative devices, (I can't think of a synonym for Trope, but insert one here) and conventions that people know about and use. Not cliche mind you, trope is not a derogatory term.
A trope that I think would inspire a small bout of story would be Loophole Abuse, or Lord British Postulate. Don't make it a "requirement to beat the game," because you're remaking Pokemon, not Legend of Zelda.
A chase scene could take place because someone found out about Team Evil (but they don't in the main plot, you would push them into discovery) and you have to do something about it.
Also, I feel like I've seen one of these in Pokemon before, so it might be a good reference to add. It's also possible that Team Evil is not really evil.
@Mozared: Go
It only really sucks you in if you really really like a tv show, or whatever else. I read through some of the Pokemon ones, the Starcraft ones, then I only derp around when I find one that is cool.
@TheAlmaity: Go
I'm so so so sorry. If it's any consolation, I spent my whole night on that site too. At least it is useful, so it's not a total waste of time. Its like this big book of ideas, ready to be rehashed. Or averted. Anyhow, I hope you got something useful out of it.
EDIT: Also, what do you think about updating the OP to show what's different now, 6 months later? Just change any points that you guys changed, add any new features you guys have, just a general refresh of the map's overview for new people. Linking to the move pool spreadsheet and other such "leaks" and "spoilers" would be nice. Oftentimes, people only read the OP and reply.
You don't seem like the type of person to edit posts, but I think it's good to edit the OP to avoid an Archive Hell scenario (not linking to that wiki) because that scares people off. I also edit my posts to avoid double posting and for punctuation errors. (I tend to hit POST before I think real hard for real long and proof read.)
@Mozared: Go
You don't seem like the type of person to edit posts, but I think it's good to edit the OP to avoid an Archive Hell scenario (not linking to that wiki) because that scares people off. I also edit my posts to avoid double posting and for punctuation errors. (I tend to hit POST before I think real hard for real long and proof read.)
I actually edit my posts way more often than I should- I'm a little bit OCD like that. But on this thread, I haven't made too many edits because our posts have sort of become a "developers blog" :P So if we edit old posts to add information, people miss it, since most of our "recurring posters" return to the thread once they've seen that something new was posted. You're right though that the OP is kind of outdated. We'll probably update it once we finally created the developer diary video.
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Feel free to Send me a PM if you have any questions/concerns!
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That's just a little bug where we set the wrong model was set for the battle :P
Yeah, that's our pretty much un-doodaded debugging arena :P For those who don't know, Terraining those is especially difficult because they aren't "really" terrained. The arenas are all totally empty upon loading, and the doodads, textures, and walls (if any) are all created on-the-fly. This is so that we can make the theme of the arena match the zone you're fighting in.
Isn't it easier to fill up the arena with a shitload of doodads and hide them all, using triggers to show the ones applicable to the current battle zone?
@Mozared: Go
hahahah we think a like :P I did that when I was trying to make a run kitty run map(i suck at triggers) the plan was to make over 200 mazes in a small map, but I couldn't get it to work right. it was very laggy before I finished trying (about 25 mazes :P).
@Taintedwisp: Go
I can honestly see where Zelda is coming from... if I were a coding nut I'd probably also consider the idea of spawning doodads where I want them, when I want them. It might be that because I'm a terrainer that I came up with a completely different solution, mostly 'cause it'll be impossibly hard to spawn doodads on the fly and get a good-looking terrain. Our terrain needn't be all that laggy, we're talking maybe 10X15 doodads for all specific types of battle terrain, I think.
Could just be that Zelda had the same idea but ran into difficulties though, I guess.
@Mozared: Go
I think the issue is the limitations of the trigger editor - Not sure how many functions concerning doodads there are.
Just checked, and couldn't find any way to reference doodad/actor type of existing doodads (There's simply nothing that can say "Yea, that's a tree", as far as triggers are concerned, every doodad is identical), so I wouldn't know how we could duplicate doodads through triggers.
There are some alternatives, none of them very fun to work with. Mozared, poke me the next time you're on skype so that we can discuss what method we will use.
Basically this. The way I did it was the only way we could find that was possible, since there's no way to reference pre-made doodads in triggers, really. That said, Maity may have found a workaround that will allow you to actually set down the doodads via the terrain editor... Either way it's going to be a little tricky. But if if wasn't tricky, it wouldn't be fun ^.^
Hi, nice to see uve made progress!!
New abilities for u(Zelda please tell me whether you are still accepting these I'm trying REALLY hard to not be annoying ","
Deathtouch-all ghost and dark type attacks this starmon uses double in power when hit by a normal or grass-type attack.
Static guard-when this starmon is hit by a superefective electric-type move and is paralyzed, leech about an "absorb"s worth of life every turn
Valience-whenever this starmon is hit by a dark-type move, restore its energy.
Spot Weakness-whenever this starmon attacks, the move it uses has a +10% chance to be a critical hit. As soon as this starmon is hit with a superefective or critical hit it can no longer concentrate on using this ability and therefore this effect is neutralized(I put that in there so that its not just an op focus energy)
Vigilance-prevent superefective damage to this starmon(essentially a reverse wonder guard)
One Step Ahead-prevent all effects with under 100 accuracy
Throw Off-as soon as the fight begins the opponent loses two stages of accuracy
Swift Attacks-you always go first until hit by a superefective move.
Point Blank-moves you controll have higher accuracy and always deal physical damage, and get a +5% critical hit chance.
@zeldarules28: Go
haha cant wait to see this project :D
Btw NICE SCREENIES!!!
@Taintedwisp: :) yeah
@zeldarules28: Go
I hope this helps would it not be possible to have the doodads pre-placed in a region say Dessert Tree's (Region) with cacti's, and Forrest Tree's (Region) with Oak, Ash ect. Then Mountain Debris with rocks, stone archway,ect and just move them between the Arena (Region) area and there storage Region. I was Thinking a Pick All Doodads in Dessert Tree's (Region) and move to Random Point in Arena (Region).
@DaFunk86: Go
Two issues with that, iirc there is no "pick all doodads" and "move doodad to point" option in the trigger editor, and Actor messages are not capable of moving them either ("Send Actor Message to Region" is the closest you can get to pick all doodads).
The second issue is that there would then only be one set of doodads per biome - So technically seen we could just leave that set of doodads in the arena in the first place. We need at least 8 sets (Final number will be determined once we're done with the terrain and see how much space we have for arenas - That will determine the player number), and that's for each region. Storing them in a seperate area of the map would not really help us any more than making as many arenas - Only space we'd be saving is what the cliffs would be taking up...
Thanks for trying to help though :)
What I'm thinking of doing is giving all doodads of each set a specific alias (like _Desert, _Forest, etc.), cramming all sets into each arena once they're done, hiding them by default and then sending an actor message to all doodads with appropriate alias to show them when they are needed. Will have to discuss with Mozared first though.
Here's the deal with abilities- We're going to be making them after we develop the starmon. We feel it's better to make starmon and then create cool and well-suited abilities for them, instead of creating abilities first and trying to fit them in to a starmon. Obviously not everything you suggest will go into the game (we can only make so many) but they serve as good inspiration. Simple SideQuest ideas are probably the most useful thing right now. :)
I put in some minor stuff earlier this week- First of all, I made some changes to banks. I had starmon data packed in as tightly as it would fit, but now that we need to store more information, we were running into issues. Basically there's an internal limit to how long any bank key can be, and if we go over that, your data is totally messed up. Luckily though the bank size limit was upped substantially after we started the project, so it's easy to fix and works properly now.
Second of all, we implemented shiny starmon. These are extremely rare starmon who are just like regular starmon, but they glow and have an alternate color pallet. They're not stronger, tougher, or anything like that, they're just...special :P The probability of any randomly generated starmon being shiny is currently 0.09%. We've also taken some measures to make hacking starmon to be shiny trickier than it would be usually (although as always, dedicated hackers will always find a way). So in other words, if you happen to find one of these, you're a very, very lucky person. And if you happen to find one and kill it accidentally.... You're gunna be a very, very unhappy person ;) We'll get you guys some screenshots soon(ish).
So, if you guys don't have a Jade Figurine type quest, they are great little goodies. For those of you who are not familiar with this term that I may have just coined now, a "Jade Figurine" quest refers to a Diablo 2, Act 3 quest where one finds a Jade Figurine after killing a random hero/unique monster. You then trade it with the guy who took you in his boat to that jungle for a Golden Bird. It turns out the bird holds the ashes of a man who studied immortality of sorts, so you get extra life by turning it into a potion.
My point is, stumbling through the woods, finding a thingy (either held by a starmon, if hold items happen, or on the ground) that looks special would be awesome. Imagine having beaten the 6th gym leader (I don't know the equivalent, haven't read this thread in a while) and getting access to some new area. you derp down a side path and find a weird cave. Upon entering and exploring, it's an ancient temple thingy. Inside you find a rare dude, or some random item thingy and decide to take it. You take it back to town, as it seems important. Someone gives you a starmon egg, or a "rare candy" or a "pp max" that increases energy. Something like that.
Maybe the quest turns into a Biggoron Sword quest, and you re-explore the whole starmon world (with new travel abilities) trading back and forth before you get a really nice reward. Maybe it turns out that the "figurine" is part of a set, and if you find the other 6 that are in different "towns" or "areas" then you get the thingy. Maybe it's only worth 10 money. Maybe it lets you carry one extra starmon in your party. Idk.
EDIT: Skimmed through the last half of the thread. It's HUGE!!! anyhow:
He played MTG.
Oh, and guys, you need an escort mission! Fun version: Double battle trek through a gorge against multiple team evil ambushes. You are aided by a Mr.Good-Guy or Ally-for-the-moment and a damsel-in-distress follows you. Not fun version: Double battle trek through a field of bizarre fiends and jagged cliffs. Your companion is actually quite bad at starmon, but you can't let any of his/her dudes faint.
Either one has opportunity for a prequest where you find some girl being mugged or a cat stuck up a tree.
@zeldarules28: Go
Awesome to hear you can do more with the Bigger Bank Limit now, and Bonus that you've been able to add Shiny Starmon. Very impressive addition to the map.
Alright guys, being gamers and mod devs, I'm sure you already know about all the tropes. If you don't, go here and learn. I bring them up because they can sometimes be good inspiration for additional content. My writer friend, artist friend and I (game consumer) like browsing through this reference for narrative devices, (I can't think of a synonym for Trope, but insert one here) and conventions that people know about and use. Not cliche mind you, trope is not a derogatory term.
A trope that I think would inspire a small bout of story would be Loophole Abuse, or Lord British Postulate. Don't make it a "requirement to beat the game," because you're remaking Pokemon, not Legend of Zelda.
A chase scene could take place because someone found out about Team Evil (but they don't in the main plot, you would push them into discovery) and you have to do something about it.
Also, I feel like I've seen one of these in Pokemon before, so it might be a good reference to add. It's also possible that Team Evil is not really evil.
@OceanFlex: Go
Damn you...
@TheAlmaity: Go
I still don't get the Tvtropes fad. I have that with Cracked, but I've never had it with that site.
@Mozared: Go It only really sucks you in if you really really like a tv show, or whatever else. I read through some of the Pokemon ones, the Starcraft ones, then I only derp around when I find one that is cool.
@TheAlmaity: Go I'm so so so sorry. If it's any consolation, I spent my whole night on that site too. At least it is useful, so it's not a total waste of time. Its like this big book of ideas, ready to be rehashed. Or averted. Anyhow, I hope you got something useful out of it.
EDIT: Also, what do you think about updating the OP to show what's different now, 6 months later? Just change any points that you guys changed, add any new features you guys have, just a general refresh of the map's overview for new people. Linking to the move pool spreadsheet and other such "leaks" and "spoilers" would be nice. Oftentimes, people only read the OP and reply.
You don't seem like the type of person to edit posts, but I think it's good to edit the OP to avoid an Archive Hell scenario (not linking to that wiki) because that scares people off. I also edit my posts to avoid double posting and for punctuation errors. (I tend to hit POST before I think real hard for real long and proof read.)
I actually edit my posts way more often than I should- I'm a little bit OCD like that. But on this thread, I haven't made too many edits because our posts have sort of become a "developers blog" :P So if we edit old posts to add information, people miss it, since most of our "recurring posters" return to the thread once they've seen that something new was posted. You're right though that the OP is kind of outdated. We'll probably update it once we finally created the developer diary video.