I'm giving up the map, yes. Though I'm going to hold on to the Catalyst name and the gameplay style. I'm busy remaking the whole thing. The style is different, and the engine is much cleaner and allows for far more creativity on my part as well as the players. I'm taking everything I learnt, and removing all those bad corners I turned. I'll take my time, and be more careful and thoughtful than I have been in the past. This has been one hell of a learning experience, and I want to show you what I, and the editor, can do. I don't aim to disappoint!
I'm not ready to give up the reins yet. Maybe in the future, but for now I want to hold onto the name. It'll help me in the future when it comes to testing my new creation, I hope.
I prioritize things that I enjoy. I'm not a servant to anyone. I don't get paid. I go out and think, wow, wouldn't it be damn cool if I made your unit's shields cover other units? Then I go home and make it happen. I don't go home and think "Oh I need to sort out this, this and this...", perhaps it is the "wrong prioritization", but I'd have quit mapping years ago if I took that attitude. I clearly need a coding minion...
I'm giving up the map, yes. Though I'm going to hold on to the Catalyst name and the gameplay style. I'm busy remaking the whole thing. The style is different, and the engine is much cleaner and allows for far more creativity on my part as well as the players. I'm taking everything I learnt, and removing all those bad corners I turned. I'll take my time, and be more careful and thoughtful than I have been in the past. This has been one hell of a learning experience, and I want to show you what I, and the editor, can do. I don't aim to disappoint!
I'm not ready to give up the reins yet. Maybe in the future, but for now I want to hold onto the name. It'll help me in the future when it comes to testing my new creation, I hope.
Your previous post sounded as if youre completely giving up on the whole damn thing. You shouldve said youre remaking it, which is why youre "pulling the plug", and not just completely giving up. Well, i hope you get done soon :) Also, im always up for testing. Give me 30 minute advance notice, and ill definitely be there.
Do us all a favour, and keep us up to date :) Post pictures of the terrain if you're making a new one, show-off certain new things with short videos, so that we all know whats expecting us :) And also to see how far you've come ;)
oh i didnt mean including new featuters.. i meant rebuilding the layout of the map like 8 times without squishing mandatory bugs first :) that has nothing do do with getting paid or not. if you make a map i assume you want people to play it. if you want people to play your map you should at least consider feedback they give you (and maybe a little bit more if its an issue brought up by 3 different people since the first version?)
fully understandable that you hold onto the name and the map. i would do the same. sadly this is still the best map on battle.net which is now slowly dumping away. on the other side getting a helping hand is not a bad thing. here are so many people who would love to work with you on this project that you could focus on the parts you really want to do and still get the rest gradually polished.
This is a tech demo. Why is it a tech demo? Well, there are 2 triggers involved in this presentation. Both only affect the camera.
Weapons are built inside your hull. They fire from inside your hull. Drone factories throw drones out of your hull directly. There are no triggers involved with drone production; each factory will produce exactly 1 of it's drone and only replace it upon it's death. When produced, the drone will emerge at your vehicle. Again, no triggers.
Why is this important? Well, simple. It removes every single limit that I had in the original Catalyst. Sometime next week I'll be demoing the new ability system and a few instances of group combat and the new PvP emphasis on the whole system.
Just played the beta on bnet, i must say i loved it. One of the best hero-type maps out there IMHO, even though i was playing by my self :( took me a few minutes to figure out you can have multiple weapons on your mech and that you can build factory's at the objectives but other than that it was relatively easy to pick up.
Would love to see the finished product some where near the top of the popularity board :)
hey, I have a question about the camera views. From like 0:04 the camera is locked in one area and can't move. How did you do that? I know it has to deal with cameras but im not sure how. o.O
Heh, nice vid :) One question... are the projectiles team colored, or are they purposefully red? If they are teamcolored, i'd like to know how to do that... A certain hero in my map could use teamcolored spell actors :p
Anyway, cant wait for the ability and battle demo :)
and for the data tutorial... Catalyst puts so many different things together, i think making step by step tutorial for this would take forever xD
Altough i think i figured out how to do the drone thing... if its what i think it is, its very simple. And if thats it, then i even know how to get weapons to fire from the seperate area of the map but in the cattlebruisers range :)
yea a step by step tutorial would take to long. :P
Any updates Eiv?
13 functional and unique weapons;
Cannon Turret
Gauss Turret
Missile Turret
Ion Cannon Turret
Napalm Turret
Flak Turret
Nuclear Silo
Ventorini Beam
Point Defence Turret
Munitions Disruptor
Fighter Drone Bay
Bomber Drone Bay
Logistics Drone Bay
Turrets all have their own internal AI. They score their own kills (and I could actually make the turrets level up individually, but not for now) and their kills are recorded on their kill display the same as any other unit. This is all done in data. The turrets really do shoot out of your vehicle. Weapons without a turret tag are controlled by you. Weapons with the tag will use their own AI.
I have a working "talent" system that uses the SC2 UI. You get talent points as you upgrade your vehicle. You may select 1 of 3 abilities per talent tier. There are 5 talent tiers per vehicle class, and there will be 3 classes on release. 3 Protoss classes and unique Protoss weaponry will be the first major update, though I've learnt my lesson with the old Catalyst and this won't happen before what I already have is absolutely polished, balanced, intuitive and fully functional.
Passive income is gone and replaced with a new, cleaner system. Zone control is revamped and again, replaced with a cleaner working version. This whole thing is a lot of work, but I expect a beta version to be ready sometime next week. I'm serious when I say there is nothing left of the original. Everything has been rebuilt and replaced from a blank slate map.
One aspect that I could use help with is vehicle abilities. They must be % based and generally not conflict with weaponry (so no "Fires a shot, dealing x damage" spells). I'm heavily against crowd control spells, I'm reluctant to even add root spells. Immunity abilities should come with a severe drawback. Anything else is fine.
then dont do direct damage abilitys :)
do things like 7 seconds invisibility, weapon disable, sight range enhancements, tank mode etc
i will watch the video now. looks promising so far! good job!
edit: huh weird. do the zealot die so fast or is the weapon going crazy and switching targets? couldnt really tell under that big beam :(
back to the abilitys. as far as i understood you want specific abilitys for every chassis. should they be only actives or passives fine? how many per vehicel? dota style 3+1 or even more?
Okay, I just took about 15 minutes writing a crapload of text and my browser decides to not want to post it when I hit "reply". I'm sorry, I really went into quite a bit of detail about the ability ideas I had, but I don't have the endurance to write the whole thing again :/. So I'll just sketch them real quick.
1. Increase armor (alternatively reduce incoming damage) OR even grant invincibility for x seconds, but damage your vehicle for x% of its total HP after it runs out. Could kill you if not careful.
2. Mirror image - known and widely used. Create 1 or 2 copies of yourself to fake an attack or create confusion to retreat. Copies deal no damage, die considerably faster than the actual vehicle and disappear after x seconds.
3. A channelled aura-like ability slowing down and possibly (x% chance) stopping incoming projectiles. Your vehicle is either unable to move or unable to shoot while channelling (perhaps even both).
4. EMP projectile / wave (either single target or small AoE) that temporarily disables a number of the target's weapons / items in general. Could scale up so as to disable more items if hitting a higher tier vehicle (since they obviously have more items available).
So first I want to say this stuff looks good so far my only concern is that you will end up with too many "turret" weapons who will do whatever they want with no ability to target for example enemy players or other important stuff and as result leaving you basically only with the option to move around and use abilities.
Even if the ai lets them target enemy players automatically over mobs thats still bad gameplay because it involves no attention and reaction from the players it just happens.
As for the vehicle abilities, i have lots of ideas but i like to modulate them around the vehicles that will use them, so if you could point out which classes(and models for the classes) will be in the game the concepts will start flowing :P
All the turret weapons have drawbacks. All weapons do, even.
Non turret weapons require you to stop moving in order to fire. Their counter is getting out of the way.
Cannon Turret; Decent range but the projectile is dodgeable. It produces a decent sized splash so it's usually going to do some damage, even if a player moves. To counter this, getting close to a unit reduces their available reaction time.
Napalm Turret; Deals some small amount of initial damage but leaves a patch of flame on the ground. The faster you move out of the fire, the less damage you will take. Furthermore, the patches of flame can adjust which parts of the battlefield can be in play by introducing a player spawned environmental hazard.
When I designed each weapon, I wanted each to have a counter AND a way to counter that counter. To use the cannon as an example, the counter is to get out the way. The counter-counter is to get closer to give them less time to react. The flipside of this is that you will be more vulnerable to their weaponry and thus, hopefully, skill will show.
The 3 vehicle classes I chose to work on first were tank, mech and fighter.
Fighter abilities are mostly complete (though more suggestions are always good because I'm not afraid to replace what I have). They are speed and utility orientated. Some examples;
Target Painter
Micro Warp Drive (redesigned to be a targetted directional speed boost)
Intercept (Zooms to target. Snares target if enemy, protects target if ally)
Freedom (Protects from all snares for 10 sec).
Mech. Heavy on firepower and movement speed debuffs.
Harpoon (Drags a target to you.)
Repulsion Field (Stuns + Knocks back all nearby enemies.)
Snare (same as original)
Power Disruption (Aura ability. Applies a small snare to all targets in range. Has a duration and a shortish cd.)
Overdrive
Seeker Missile (Yes I know I said no "deals x damage" spells, but the seeker missile is too cool. This might be replaced by a turret weapon, but interesting "deals x damage" spells are welcome.)
Tank. Defensive, protects allies.
Containment Field
Deployable Shield (Drops a shield, protects allies within, dies when it's taken too much damage).
Smoke Bomb (Reduces damage taken by 75% for any unit, friend or foe, within the cloud).
Defensive Matrix (Gives 40% base health as shields for a short time).
Also, a funny ability idea that just popped into my head: targets a small radius, and each unit inside it gets a behavior that applies a force effect to all units withint 1-2 range. This would force creeps to spread out a lot and could help with running away, plus maybe create some confusion. Probably pretty pointless, lol.
Before i comment whether having too many AI controlled weapons, i'll first want to try it out myself
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@Eiviyn: Go
can you upload the map to sc2mapster so we can look at triggers for learning purposes then?
@TheAlmaity: Go
I'm giving up the map, yes. Though I'm going to hold on to the Catalyst name and the gameplay style. I'm busy remaking the whole thing. The style is different, and the engine is much cleaner and allows for far more creativity on my part as well as the players. I'm taking everything I learnt, and removing all those bad corners I turned. I'll take my time, and be more careful and thoughtful than I have been in the past. This has been one hell of a learning experience, and I want to show you what I, and the editor, can do. I don't aim to disappoint!
I'm not ready to give up the reins yet. Maybe in the future, but for now I want to hold onto the name. It'll help me in the future when it comes to testing my new creation, I hope.
@Ryaneko: Go
I prioritize things that I enjoy. I'm not a servant to anyone. I don't get paid. I go out and think, wow, wouldn't it be damn cool if I made your unit's shields cover other units? Then I go home and make it happen. I don't go home and think "Oh I need to sort out this, this and this...", perhaps it is the "wrong prioritization", but I'd have quit mapping years ago if I took that attitude. I clearly need a coding minion...
@zeldarules28: Go
Oh, it's coming back. Not sure when, but I'm thoroughly enjoying working on this new engine, and that's what matters to me.
@MoonMcDemon: Go @DoctorBoo: Go @IliIilI: Go
Hah, thank you for your support, I appreciate it!
@Reach0: Go
Not quite yet, though I'd be happy to explain any of the inner workings in rough detail.
If youre being serious about that, ive stated about a billion times that i'd help ;)
Your previous post sounded as if youre completely giving up on the whole damn thing. You shouldve said youre remaking it, which is why youre "pulling the plug", and not just completely giving up. Well, i hope you get done soon :) Also, im always up for testing. Give me 30 minute advance notice, and ill definitely be there.
Do us all a favour, and keep us up to date :) Post pictures of the terrain if you're making a new one, show-off certain new things with short videos, so that we all know whats expecting us :) And also to see how far you've come ;)
gl hf
just dont use reds (overlord reference)...
oh i didnt mean including new featuters.. i meant rebuilding the layout of the map like 8 times without squishing mandatory bugs first :) that has nothing do do with getting paid or not. if you make a map i assume you want people to play it. if you want people to play your map you should at least consider feedback they give you (and maybe a little bit more if its an issue brought up by 3 different people since the first version?)
fully understandable that you hold onto the name and the map. i would do the same. sadly this is still the best map on battle.net which is now slowly dumping away. on the other side getting a helping hand is not a bad thing. here are so many people who would love to work with you on this project that you could focus on the parts you really want to do and still get the rest gradually polished.
Is that some Phoenix Fire?
This is a tech demo. Why is it a tech demo? Well, there are 2 triggers involved in this presentation. Both only affect the camera.
Weapons are built inside your hull. They fire from inside your hull. Drone factories throw drones out of your hull directly. There are no triggers involved with drone production; each factory will produce exactly 1 of it's drone and only replace it upon it's death. When produced, the drone will emerge at your vehicle. Again, no triggers.
Why is this important? Well, simple. It removes every single limit that I had in the original Catalyst. Sometime next week I'll be demoing the new ability system and a few instances of group combat and the new PvP emphasis on the whole system.
@Eiviyn: Go
I want an Eiviyn data tutorial!
Just played the beta on bnet, i must say i loved it. One of the best hero-type maps out there IMHO, even though i was playing by my self :( took me a few minutes to figure out you can have multiple weapons on your mech and that you can build factory's at the objectives but other than that it was relatively easy to pick up.
Would love to see the finished product some where near the top of the popularity board :)
@Eiviyn: Go
hey, I have a question about the camera views. From like 0:04 the camera is locked in one area and can't move. How did you do that? I know it has to deal with cameras but im not sure how. o.O
@Eiviyn: Go
Can't wait to play v2!
I second this!
Heh, nice vid :) One question... are the projectiles team colored, or are they purposefully red? If they are teamcolored, i'd like to know how to do that... A certain hero in my map could use teamcolored spell actors :p
Anyway, cant wait for the ability and battle demo :)
and for the data tutorial... Catalyst puts so many different things together, i think making step by step tutorial for this would take forever xD
Altough i think i figured out how to do the drone thing... if its what i think it is, its very simple. And if thats it, then i even know how to get weapons to fire from the seperate area of the map but in the cattlebruisers range :)
@TheAlmaity: Go
yea a step by step tutorial would take to long. :P
Any updates Eiv?
13 functional and unique weapons;
Cannon Turret
Gauss Turret
Missile Turret
Ion Cannon Turret
Napalm Turret
Flak Turret
Nuclear Silo
Ventorini Beam
Point Defence Turret
Munitions Disruptor
Fighter Drone Bay
Bomber Drone Bay
Logistics Drone Bay
Turrets all have their own internal AI. They score their own kills (and I could actually make the turrets level up individually, but not for now) and their kills are recorded on their kill display the same as any other unit. This is all done in data. The turrets really do shoot out of your vehicle. Weapons without a turret tag are controlled by you. Weapons with the tag will use their own AI.
I have a working "talent" system that uses the SC2 UI. You get talent points as you upgrade your vehicle. You may select 1 of 3 abilities per talent tier. There are 5 talent tiers per vehicle class, and there will be 3 classes on release. 3 Protoss classes and unique Protoss weaponry will be the first major update, though I've learnt my lesson with the old Catalyst and this won't happen before what I already have is absolutely polished, balanced, intuitive and fully functional.
Passive income is gone and replaced with a new, cleaner system. Zone control is revamped and again, replaced with a cleaner working version. This whole thing is a lot of work, but I expect a beta version to be ready sometime next week. I'm serious when I say there is nothing left of the original. Everything has been rebuilt and replaced from a blank slate map.
One aspect that I could use help with is vehicle abilities. They must be % based and generally not conflict with weaponry (so no "Fires a shot, dealing x damage" spells). I'm heavily against crowd control spells, I'm reluctant to even add root spells. Immunity abilities should come with a severe drawback. Anything else is fine.
then dont do direct damage abilitys :) do things like 7 seconds invisibility, weapon disable, sight range enhancements, tank mode etc i will watch the video now. looks promising so far! good job!
edit: huh weird. do the zealot die so fast or is the weapon going crazy and switching targets? couldnt really tell under that big beam :(
back to the abilitys. as far as i understood you want specific abilitys for every chassis. should they be only actives or passives fine? how many per vehicel? dota style 3+1 or even more?
HOLY !@#$@#$%^&*#$%^&*(#@$%^&*(#$%^&*($%^&*AMOLY!!! make ur own game not a sc2 custom map >.>
Okay, I just took about 15 minutes writing a crapload of text and my browser decides to not want to post it when I hit "reply". I'm sorry, I really went into quite a bit of detail about the ability ideas I had, but I don't have the endurance to write the whole thing again :/. So I'll just sketch them real quick.
1. Increase armor (alternatively reduce incoming damage) OR even grant invincibility for x seconds, but damage your vehicle for x% of its total HP after it runs out. Could kill you if not careful.
2. Mirror image - known and widely used. Create 1 or 2 copies of yourself to fake an attack or create confusion to retreat. Copies deal no damage, die considerably faster than the actual vehicle and disappear after x seconds.
3. A channelled aura-like ability slowing down and possibly (x% chance) stopping incoming projectiles. Your vehicle is either unable to move or unable to shoot while channelling (perhaps even both).
4. EMP projectile / wave (either single target or small AoE) that temporarily disables a number of the target's weapons / items in general. Could scale up so as to disable more items if hitting a higher tier vehicle (since they obviously have more items available).
So first I want to say this stuff looks good so far my only concern is that you will end up with too many "turret" weapons who will do whatever they want with no ability to target for example enemy players or other important stuff and as result leaving you basically only with the option to move around and use abilities.
Even if the ai lets them target enemy players automatically over mobs thats still bad gameplay because it involves no attention and reaction from the players it just happens.
As for the vehicle abilities, i have lots of ideas but i like to modulate them around the vehicles that will use them, so if you could point out which classes(and models for the classes) will be in the game the concepts will start flowing :P
@iamtoolazy: Go actually positioning is a skill too..
@iamtoolazy: Go
All the turret weapons have drawbacks. All weapons do, even.
Non turret weapons require you to stop moving in order to fire. Their counter is getting out of the way.
Cannon Turret; Decent range but the projectile is dodgeable. It produces a decent sized splash so it's usually going to do some damage, even if a player moves. To counter this, getting close to a unit reduces their available reaction time.
Napalm Turret; Deals some small amount of initial damage but leaves a patch of flame on the ground. The faster you move out of the fire, the less damage you will take. Furthermore, the patches of flame can adjust which parts of the battlefield can be in play by introducing a player spawned environmental hazard.
When I designed each weapon, I wanted each to have a counter AND a way to counter that counter. To use the cannon as an example, the counter is to get out the way. The counter-counter is to get closer to give them less time to react. The flipside of this is that you will be more vulnerable to their weaponry and thus, hopefully, skill will show.
The 3 vehicle classes I chose to work on first were tank, mech and fighter.
Fighter abilities are mostly complete (though more suggestions are always good because I'm not afraid to replace what I have). They are speed and utility orientated. Some examples;
Target Painter
Micro Warp Drive (redesigned to be a targetted directional speed boost)
Intercept (Zooms to target. Snares target if enemy, protects target if ally)
Freedom (Protects from all snares for 10 sec).
Mech. Heavy on firepower and movement speed debuffs.
Harpoon (Drags a target to you.)
Repulsion Field (Stuns + Knocks back all nearby enemies.)
Snare (same as original)
Power Disruption (Aura ability. Applies a small snare to all targets in range. Has a duration and a shortish cd.)
Overdrive
Seeker Missile (Yes I know I said no "deals x damage" spells, but the seeker missile is too cool. This might be replaced by a turret weapon, but interesting "deals x damage" spells are welcome.)
Tank. Defensive, protects allies.
Containment Field
Deployable Shield (Drops a shield, protects allies within, dies when it's taken too much damage).
Smoke Bomb (Reduces damage taken by 75% for any unit, friend or foe, within the cloud).
Defensive Matrix (Gives 40% base health as shields for a short time).
post 700 on this topic! YAY!
Also, a funny ability idea that just popped into my head: targets a small radius, and each unit inside it gets a behavior that applies a force effect to all units withint 1-2 range. This would force creeps to spread out a lot and could help with running away, plus maybe create some confusion. Probably pretty pointless, lol.
Before i comment whether having too many AI controlled weapons, i'll first want to try it out myself