DotA-Allstars' roster of 100+ heroes is being brought over in its entirety. The single map games take place on is functionally identical to the one that you can download for free today in the Warcraft III mod. Items, skills, and upgrade paths are unchanged. Some hero skills work slightly better due to being freed from the now-ancient Warcraft III engine, but Dota 2 will be instantly familiar to any DotA player.
Ugh. I have no doubt that Dota 2 will be very very pretty, but I'm not sure I want to play essentially the same game. That's why I got bored of HoN fairly rapidly.
I was really hoping for an evolution like Team Fortress Classic -> Team Fortress 2.
Actually Eul and Guinsoo are mad are they are currently fighting for DotA trademark. They want it to be free name, but Valve wants to trademark the name. Riot, Guinsoo and Pendragon or whatever he is called is against them.
I love Valve, and I dislike LoL game. But I would stand on the side of Riot. Coz its their idea. They cant make money by saying its their idea or name coz its not. If they trademark DotA. That means that they invented it.
Even Blizzard can sue them, tho they probbly wont. At least HoN is using their own name...
Its not about ramake, its about taking credits for something that isnt yours...
BTW, the thing is, that it will sell great will you love it or not.
Im a huge dota player 5-6 years under my belt. Lately I play LOL(leage of legends) because its better then dota on wc3.
The stat system they have is nice. The hero selection is pretty nice. And they are constantly adding content to the game. And LOL is free to play, you actually have to play the game quite a bit to access all the content, which im a fan of.
DOTA 2 would seriously require some extreme enhancements from what LOL currently offers to sway me.
I'm fairly excited about this. I enjoyed DOTA but the matchmaking system (i.e. WC3 custom games, i.e. non-existent) + community was atrocious. I simply became no longer willing to spend 2 hours to find 30 minutes of decent gameplay. While a direct port is somewhat strange, I actually believe this makes sense. Why change gameplay that is already highly successful? Plus I'm sure that Icefrog & team will continue to provide updates.
As far as LoL and HoN goes, I severely disliked LoL. My main issue was the match-making + levelup system. When I played LoL, I got so many victories in a row that, as a level 11, I was consistently matched with level 30s. While I understand the need to keep matches "fair", it's simply not fun for me to play people who have SIGNIFICANT game-provided stat & ability (they had a blink skill I could not use!) advantages over me.
Lastly, you cannot sign your rights away. Actually contracts (especially waivers) often fail to stand up in court. By no means does Blizzard own the idea of Dota nor even the heroes or skills; they may(1) own the map and certainly the WC3-based assets (sounds, models, etc.) but little else.
(1) I actually doubt Blizzard could successfully market the map without giving a % to Icefrog. I'm fairly confident that if Blizzard tried to sell Dota without giving a cut to Icefrog/other creators, then he could successfully sue them. On the other hand, the reverse is certainly true.
What we need is someone to make a better AoS altogether in SC2 :p
Lolz. Non-paid will never be as good. Unless Blizzard implements marketplace, no maps will be high quality. You will get a lot of typing game like NWW and Debates tho
I'm fairly excited about this. I enjoyed DOTA but the matchmaking system (i.e. WC3 custom games, i.e. non-existent) + community was atrocious. I simply became no longer willing to spend 2 hours to find 30 minutes of decent gameplay. While a direct port is somewhat strange, I actually believe this makes sense. Why change gameplay that is already highly successful? Plus I'm sure that Icefrog team will continue to provide updates.
As far as LoL and HoN goes, I severely disliked LoL. My main issue was the match-making + levelup system. When I played LoL, I got so many victories in a row that, as a level 11, I was consistently matched with level 30s. While I understand the need to keep matches "fair", it's simply not fun for me to play people who have SIGNIFICANT game-provided stat ability (they had a blink skill I could not use!) advantages over me.
Lastly, you cannot sign your rights away. Actually contracts (especially waivers) often fail to stand up in court. By no means does Blizzard own the idea of Dota nor even the heroes or skills; they may(1) own the map and certainly the WC3-based assets (sounds, models, etc.) but little else.
(1) I actually doubt Blizzard could successfully market the map without giving a % to Icefrog. I'm fairly confident that if Blizzard tried to sell Dota without giving a cut to Icefrog/other creators, then he could successfully sue them. On the other hand, the reverse is certainly true.
Exactly. And community needs to stop being so cheap. These people spend months to make good maps and nobody are willing to pay not even 99c. Such a shame. And yet they are complaining lacks of quality map. These mapmakers needs to eat and pay rent. The reason iPhone Apps so popular is because there's money behind it. Remember, Money makes life goes around. Without money it's pointless bro
Eat that Blizzard for being so arrogant and not honoring IceFrog. DotA basically triples WC3 and TFT sales but Blizzard still say that DotA is non-premium map? really? Man I can see Icefrog got hurt by that. Such a shame. Blizzard basically treats us mappers worse than a dog. Dog still got some dogfood and bones. We? We got nothing. NOTHING! They will even ban your map if it got sucessful so fast. Remember our fella Rodrigo? he got booted off. Stop wasting your time making maps.
If you only made it to level 11 on LOL then you have no idea what fun the game can be. Multiple wins in a row does not put you against higher level people.
Some times on LOL you do end up vs higher level people. Half the fun of LOL is struggling to level 30. They now have a Ranked game ladder that you need to be level 30 to play in. The Ranked matches tend to be really hard.
Blizzard would never even try and make a game like dota. They have better things to do.
The reason people complain so much is that their noobs. When playing custom games you should expect its not gonna be polished. Half these kids have no idea what a modding comunity is.
EnslavedNumber .... Blizzard has never not given anybody credit for dota..... why all the hate on blizzard. Quit buying/ playing thier games if you hate them that much Oh and .... who the hell would pay any thing for the custom games on SC2 right now?
Eat that Blizzard for being so arrogant and not honoring IceFrog. DotA basically triples WC3 and TFT sales but Blizzard still say that DotA is non-premium map? really? Man I can see Icefrog got hurt by that. Such a shame. Blizzard basically treats us mappers worse than a dog. Dog still got some dogfood and bones. We? We got nothing. NOTHING! They will even ban your map if it got sucessful so fast. Remember our fella Rodrigo? he got booted off. Stop wasting your time making maps.
I would have been enraged if Blizzard would allow maps like DotA to become premium.
Yes, DotA is well made and extremely popular, but it doesn't meet the criteria to become a premium map and thus it shouldn't.
I believe Icefrog couldn't care less about their remark. Heck, he didn't go to Valve because they treat him better. He did go to Valve because there he got the opportunity to make a real game out of DotA, and not a (maybe-)premium SC2 map where he could get a couple of dollars for selling it.
Do you think Icefrog now sits in a comfortable seat somewhere in the Valve HQ and gets his shoulders massaged? Way off. If he doesn't do the job he's been employed for he'll get fired. Because that's what he is. An employee.
And Blizzard was treating Icefrog better than any other Wc3 mapper. They've contacted him during the time they had to take out the type-cast bug (which was commonly used among mappers) and worked with him to make sure that DotA is fixed and prepared the same day the patch would go online.
Some rumor that they even increased the custom map limit because DotA was already getting close to hitting this limit.
And what does that mean? We get nothing?
What's the thing you're making your maps with? This "Map Editor"?
Is is common for games to have such an extensive editor available to public? No!
Is it common for developers to fix and patch their development tools for us to use? No!
Is it common for developers to take their time to make Q&A batches with mapmaking questions? No!
Heck, most games you can buy can't even be modded unless you know exactly what you do!
Sure it's not perfect, and sure Blizzard's ban policy is somewhat exaggerated, although I can't blame them. They have their rules and they gotta stick to them.
It seems that you take all what you get for granted and only see the things you don't get. Tomorrow Blizzard could shut down the Editor and they have every right to do so. None of us payed for the editor. We payed for the game and got the editor with it, as a "free gift".
And who treats their customers better?
Which company provides better and easier tools and support for modding/mapping their game than Blizzard? I don't know ANY.
And now let's play that chess game you got in your avatar.
@xenrathe: Go
EnslavedNumber .... Blizzard has never not given anybody credit for dota..... why all the hate on blizzard. Quit buying/ playing thier games if you hate them that much Oh and .... who the hell would pay any thing for the custom games on SC2 right now?
Blizzard saying DotA non premium = not giving credit to me. yea nobody would pay anything for the custom game because 99% of the blizzard community are cheap. If you wanna do mapping for fun then its a good place. But for those who expects superb custom map, keep dreaming! No good map will come without funding.
I don't know what you guys are getting at here, with the hate toward this new DotA. This sounds like my dream, well my dream was to have Blizzard and Icefrog come together to make a DotA remake. But since Valve is second to Blizzard for gameplay, innovation and support. I'll take them happily.
A beautiful DotA remake (not "clone") with the same heroes (of course with the possiblity of adding more) with tweaked spells and items. Helmed by Icefrog and Valve, both renowned game creators and dedicated to supporting their games and communities. I tried LoL, beta and non-beta, and did NOT like it, it was imbalanced, cheap, cartoony and boring. Considering that they were free from the WC3 engine they still managed to dumb down DotA into a lifeless clone. I tried HoN, and well it's a low-quality rip-off of DotA, not much more to say. This has promise, so much potential, a real and big company behind it with a team bursting with ideas and innovations to complete the DotA experience. Primarily what DotA was seriously lacking in it's WC3 days, a proper matchmaking system and GUI suited ONLY for the game DotA. A seamless dota-catered engine, the "coach and newbie" system sounds promising. As well as the community rewards. I cant wait to see what they get up to.
I do wonder though, if they will include more maps. Obviously, the "Allstars" map is key to it's success. But I would love to see some other maps (maybe just for fun maps) like DotA "Rumble" maps and other layouts. Just to add that little bit more.
Yeah, but sadly Dota (ice frog version) still didn't live up to the other AoS's at one time. ToB is the only one I remember, but it had so much promise... then somebody hacked it and the creator said f it. Xd
Lolz. Non-paid will never be as good. Unless Blizzard implements marketplace, no maps will be high quality. You will get a lot of typing game like NWW and Debates tho
This is so true. Map marketplace can prevent shit like this from happening (hopefully) and get some REAL mod/map dev. I mean look at the images here. They are WoW posters except with DOTA 2 stamped on it.
I was actually personally hoping that it would be a different game (like TFC-TF2). Dota was fun a couple times but like all maps it gets tiring. I loved TOB too, more than DOTA actually.
If Starcraft 2 was an exact remake of BW in every way but with prettier graphics, most people would be very disappointed, while a few would be happy. By going down this route, Valve is aiming to capture the most competitive DoTA players while giving up any chance of capturing a market of people who don't already play DoTA (or its various clones.) This suggests to me that it's a pretty small project for Valve and not something they're sinking a ton of cash into.
Blizzard saying dota isnt a premium map doesnt mean they're not giving credit.
It means that the map is using copyrighted materials.... sounds, models, icons. None of which blizzard would allow you to "re-sell" as they have previously stated.
WhiskyEU
Everything you just described as what youd like to see in a dota remake already exists in League of Legends. Give it a serious try its very well made.
I have nothing against DotA here. Or valve creating DotA game.
But I am against Valve taking DotA trademark from Eul and Guinsoo. Since they are not allowing that. They said so.
Well I just find this unfair. That's all.
Blizzard saying dota isnt a premium map doesnt mean they're not giving credit.
It means that the map is using copyrighted materials.... sounds, models, icons. None of which blizzard would allow you to "re-sell" as they have previously stated.
I think it's also the lack of custom assets. I got the impression that the premium map program was designed to provide an incentive for teams to create their own art, sounds, and music, instead of just reusing Starcraft 2 stuff in a different context. That's not to say you couldn't use any SC2 stuff but I'd wager when the premium map program launches there will be a minimum custom asset requirement to get approved.
And of course, it can't have anything copyrighted by someone other than Blizzard.
I played a lot of DotA in the old days, after that I tried HoN but it wasn't for me. Then moved on to LoL and I am still playing it.
Valve need to do some serious innovating in DotA2 if they want to compete against a free to play LoL which gets a major update a month with new champions, items and the occasion new map in the update..
A lot of the mechanics in DotA I never really liked like deny.. and the fact that if you fell slightly behind you had already lost.
Really a shame that the DotA name got trademarked, would have liked if Valve called it something else than DotA2, think it is kinda lame.. especially when you think about the fact that Valve never made a DotA1 :p
and what does Blizzard have to do with this ?! O.o
Lol, rage quit? Anyway.... he got his map banned for breaking rules that he should of been aware of. His map gaining popularity may of made Blizzard look at it faster, but that's it. I highly doubt dota trippled any sales either. Dota didn't get popular for like at least 2+ years after the release when tft was already very populated.
Anyway, what makes dota so great any way? I have always found it as, item gimped and team gimped and my favorite, who got the noob on their side? I'm asking honestly, because I just never found its appeal compared to other AoS's that wc3 had to offer.
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I'm not excited. Never liked DotA, never will.
Ugh. I have no doubt that Dota 2 will be very very pretty, but I'm not sure I want to play essentially the same game. That's why I got bored of HoN fairly rapidly.
I was really hoping for an evolution like Team Fortress Classic -> Team Fortress 2.
Actually Eul and Guinsoo are mad are they are currently fighting for DotA trademark. They want it to be free name, but Valve wants to trademark the name. Riot, Guinsoo and Pendragon or whatever he is called is against them.
I love Valve, and I dislike LoL game. But I would stand on the side of Riot. Coz its their idea. They cant make money by saying its their idea or name coz its not. If they trademark DotA. That means that they invented it.
Even Blizzard can sue them, tho they probbly wont. At least HoN is using their own name...
Its not about ramake, its about taking credits for something that isnt yours...
BTW, the thing is, that it will sell great will you love it or not.
Im a huge dota player 5-6 years under my belt. Lately I play LOL(leage of legends) because its better then dota on wc3.
The stat system they have is nice. The hero selection is pretty nice. And they are constantly adding content to the game. And LOL is free to play, you actually have to play the game quite a bit to access all the content, which im a fan of.
DOTA 2 would seriously require some extreme enhancements from what LOL currently offers to sway me.
BTW That Morphling looks fing awesome
I'm fairly excited about this. I enjoyed DOTA but the matchmaking system (i.e. WC3 custom games, i.e. non-existent) + community was atrocious. I simply became no longer willing to spend 2 hours to find 30 minutes of decent gameplay. While a direct port is somewhat strange, I actually believe this makes sense. Why change gameplay that is already highly successful? Plus I'm sure that Icefrog & team will continue to provide updates.
As far as LoL and HoN goes, I severely disliked LoL. My main issue was the match-making + levelup system. When I played LoL, I got so many victories in a row that, as a level 11, I was consistently matched with level 30s. While I understand the need to keep matches "fair", it's simply not fun for me to play people who have SIGNIFICANT game-provided stat & ability (they had a blink skill I could not use!) advantages over me.
Lastly, you cannot sign your rights away. Actually contracts (especially waivers) often fail to stand up in court. By no means does Blizzard own the idea of Dota nor even the heroes or skills; they may(1) own the map and certainly the WC3-based assets (sounds, models, etc.) but little else.
(1) I actually doubt Blizzard could successfully market the map without giving a % to Icefrog. I'm fairly confident that if Blizzard tried to sell Dota without giving a cut to Icefrog/other creators, then he could successfully sue them. On the other hand, the reverse is certainly true.
Lolz. Non-paid will never be as good. Unless Blizzard implements marketplace, no maps will be high quality. You will get a lot of typing game like NWW and Debates tho
Exactly. And community needs to stop being so cheap. These people spend months to make good maps and nobody are willing to pay not even 99c. Such a shame. And yet they are complaining lacks of quality map. These mapmakers needs to eat and pay rent. The reason iPhone Apps so popular is because there's money behind it. Remember, Money makes life goes around. Without money it's pointless bro
Eat that Blizzard for being so arrogant and not honoring IceFrog. DotA basically triples WC3 and TFT sales but Blizzard still say that DotA is non-premium map? really? Man I can see Icefrog got hurt by that. Such a shame. Blizzard basically treats us mappers worse than a dog. Dog still got some dogfood and bones. We? We got nothing. NOTHING! They will even ban your map if it got sucessful so fast. Remember our fella Rodrigo? he got booted off. Stop wasting your time making maps.
@xenrathe: Go
If you only made it to level 11 on LOL then you have no idea what fun the game can be. Multiple wins in a row does not put you against higher level people. Some times on LOL you do end up vs higher level people. Half the fun of LOL is struggling to level 30. They now have a Ranked game ladder that you need to be level 30 to play in. The Ranked matches tend to be really hard.
Blizzard would never even try and make a game like dota. They have better things to do.
The reason people complain so much is that their noobs. When playing custom games you should expect its not gonna be polished. Half these kids have no idea what a modding comunity is.
I would have been enraged if Blizzard would allow maps like DotA to become premium.
Yes, DotA is well made and extremely popular, but it doesn't meet the criteria to become a premium map and thus it shouldn't.
I believe Icefrog couldn't care less about their remark. Heck, he didn't go to Valve because they treat him better. He did go to Valve because there he got the opportunity to make a real game out of DotA, and not a (maybe-)premium SC2 map where he could get a couple of dollars for selling it.
Do you think Icefrog now sits in a comfortable seat somewhere in the Valve HQ and gets his shoulders massaged? Way off. If he doesn't do the job he's been employed for he'll get fired. Because that's what he is. An employee.
And Blizzard was treating Icefrog better than any other Wc3 mapper. They've contacted him during the time they had to take out the type-cast bug (which was commonly used among mappers) and worked with him to make sure that DotA is fixed and prepared the same day the patch would go online.
Some rumor that they even increased the custom map limit because DotA was already getting close to hitting this limit.
And what does that mean? We get nothing?
What's the thing you're making your maps with? This "Map Editor"?
Is is common for games to have such an extensive editor available to public? No!
Is it common for developers to fix and patch their development tools for us to use? No!
Is it common for developers to take their time to make Q&A batches with mapmaking questions? No!
Heck, most games you can buy can't even be modded unless you know exactly what you do!
Sure it's not perfect, and sure Blizzard's ban policy is somewhat exaggerated, although I can't blame them. They have their rules and they gotta stick to them.
It seems that you take all what you get for granted and only see the things you don't get. Tomorrow Blizzard could shut down the Editor and they have every right to do so. None of us payed for the editor. We payed for the game and got the editor with it, as a "free gift".
And who treats their customers better?
Which company provides better and easier tools and support for modding/mapping their game than Blizzard? I don't know ANY.
And now let's play that chess game you got in your avatar.
Blizzard saying DotA non premium = not giving credit to me. yea nobody would pay anything for the custom game because 99% of the blizzard community are cheap. If you wanna do mapping for fun then its a good place. But for those who expects superb custom map, keep dreaming! No good map will come without funding.
@enslavednumber: Go
I don't know what you guys are getting at here, with the hate toward this new DotA. This sounds like my dream, well my dream was to have Blizzard and Icefrog come together to make a DotA remake. But since Valve is second to Blizzard for gameplay, innovation and support. I'll take them happily.
A beautiful DotA remake (not "clone") with the same heroes (of course with the possiblity of adding more) with tweaked spells and items. Helmed by Icefrog and Valve, both renowned game creators and dedicated to supporting their games and communities. I tried LoL, beta and non-beta, and did NOT like it, it was imbalanced, cheap, cartoony and boring. Considering that they were free from the WC3 engine they still managed to dumb down DotA into a lifeless clone. I tried HoN, and well it's a low-quality rip-off of DotA, not much more to say. This has promise, so much potential, a real and big company behind it with a team bursting with ideas and innovations to complete the DotA experience. Primarily what DotA was seriously lacking in it's WC3 days, a proper matchmaking system and GUI suited ONLY for the game DotA. A seamless dota-catered engine, the "coach and newbie" system sounds promising. As well as the community rewards. I cant wait to see what they get up to.
I do wonder though, if they will include more maps. Obviously, the "Allstars" map is key to it's success. But I would love to see some other maps (maybe just for fun maps) like DotA "Rumble" maps and other layouts. Just to add that little bit more.
Read the gameinformer article if you aren't sold: http://gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/10/13/dota-2-announced-details.aspx
@OneTwoSC: Go
Yeah, but sadly Dota (ice frog version) still didn't live up to the other AoS's at one time. ToB is the only one I remember, but it had so much promise... then somebody hacked it and the creator said f it. Xd
This is so true. Map marketplace can prevent shit like this from happening (hopefully) and get some REAL mod/map dev. I mean look at the images here. They are WoW posters except with DOTA 2 stamped on it.
I was actually personally hoping that it would be a different game (like TFC-TF2). Dota was fun a couple times but like all maps it gets tiring. I loved TOB too, more than DOTA actually.
If Starcraft 2 was an exact remake of BW in every way but with prettier graphics, most people would be very disappointed, while a few would be happy. By going down this route, Valve is aiming to capture the most competitive DoTA players while giving up any chance of capturing a market of people who don't already play DoTA (or its various clones.) This suggests to me that it's a pretty small project for Valve and not something they're sinking a ton of cash into.
@enslavednumber: Go
Blizzard saying dota isnt a premium map doesnt mean they're not giving credit.
It means that the map is using copyrighted materials.... sounds, models, icons. None of which blizzard would allow you to "re-sell" as they have previously stated.
WhiskyEU
Everything you just described as what youd like to see in a dota remake already exists in League of Legends. Give it a serious try its very well made.
I have nothing against DotA here. Or valve creating DotA game.
But I am against Valve taking DotA trademark from Eul and Guinsoo. Since they are not allowing that. They said so. Well I just find this unfair. That's all.
I think it's also the lack of custom assets. I got the impression that the premium map program was designed to provide an incentive for teams to create their own art, sounds, and music, instead of just reusing Starcraft 2 stuff in a different context. That's not to say you couldn't use any SC2 stuff but I'd wager when the premium map program launches there will be a minimum custom asset requirement to get approved.
And of course, it can't have anything copyrighted by someone other than Blizzard.
I played a lot of DotA in the old days, after that I tried HoN but it wasn't for me. Then moved on to LoL and I am still playing it. Valve need to do some serious innovating in DotA2 if they want to compete against a free to play LoL which gets a major update a month with new champions, items and the occasion new map in the update..
A lot of the mechanics in DotA I never really liked like deny.. and the fact that if you fell slightly behind you had already lost.
Really a shame that the DotA name got trademarked, would have liked if Valve called it something else than DotA2, think it is kinda lame.. especially when you think about the fact that Valve never made a DotA1 :p
and what does Blizzard have to do with this ?! O.o
@enslavednumber: Go
Lol, rage quit? Anyway.... he got his map banned for breaking rules that he should of been aware of. His map gaining popularity may of made Blizzard look at it faster, but that's it. I highly doubt dota trippled any sales either. Dota didn't get popular for like at least 2+ years after the release when tft was already very populated.
Anyway, what makes dota so great any way? I have always found it as, item gimped and team gimped and my favorite, who got the noob on their side? I'm asking honestly, because I just never found its appeal compared to other AoS's that wc3 had to offer.