Sorry if this is the wrong place but wasn't sure whether to post in your other mod thread as this is to do with this mod.. anyhoo here's a WIP picture of my start on making the Sloth. I've shifted around the cab and some other parts to centre it and make it a bit more like a Bulldozer (minus the Dozer blades) and added the Thor cannons. Considering how big it is I shrunk the cab a bit as well to give a sense of size. At this point I'm not sure what to do with the flatbed part yet. Is this something like what you'd like for the Sloth?
Huh... I'll look into that :S Thanks for reporting it! Though, I've not added any lighting to my knowledge...
Edit: From your picture it seems like it's switching off the shading... problem is I'm not able to recreate the above screenied bug in my editor.... is anyone else able to recreate/experience this bug and if so, does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks, both of you! As for making the models, well I've always had an artistic flare but as far as game models (kitbashing anyway) go I think it's just practice, I did a few back in my Warcraft 3 days so I'm already familiar with some things I can apply to StarCraft II :)
Edit: Good news! My Kani's Models asset has been approved!
I also think GhostNova deserves a place. He really pushes the boundaries of what can be done with his models with very polished models. It was his models that inspired me to give SC2 model kitbashing a go :)
I also think those behind the M3 Exporter and the Blender Tools (and any other such tools I'm unaware of) should get top billing... afterall without them, nobody else would be on the list :)
Wow, thanks for the compliment hehe. I'll do my best :)
Edit: As has been pointed out to me, I forgot to mention that the Engi came about from a chat I was having with my good friend HandClaw, who suggested a number of design elements including the SCV Fusion Welder, and the Nomad crane. So thank you HandClaw!
Edit2: As has also been pointed out to me, the Marine Engineer idea came up due to a picture HandClaw did of a Terran Engineer
I'm afraid I have to disagree. Perfectly illustated by the Freespace Films picture (the Legacy cinematic one) the broad shapes of the classic Behemoth and the Hyperion (which is the only one of these cruisers we know 100% for certain is a Behemoth lorewise) have far more in common than the Hyperion and the Minotaur. For one the Minotaur has an elevated bridge section that widens out, the Hyperion and classic Behemoth it is nestled into the rear engine section.
In addition the Hyperion and Behemoth, the engine section extends backwards from the wings, whereas the Minotaur it is more level with the rear of the Wings. The Minotaur's wings and hammerhead also swoop downwards more whereas the Hyperion and Behemoth are more level.
The Minotaur's neck section appears to be semi hollow/framelike, with the Yamato cannon visible whereas the Hyperion/Behemoth is solid.
The Minotaur has laser cannons mounted along the neck, whereas the Hyperion/Behemoth they are clusted on the hammerhead (which fits with descriptions of the Behemoth class) and the hammerhead opens when firing the Yamato cannon.
And this isn't even to mention the variation in the size of windows on the Hyperion and the Minotaur (there are windows visible on the in game one) which suggests the Hyperion is far larger than the Minotaur)
In short, for the reasons I've stated the Hyperion looks nothing like the Minotaur, but very much like a higher poly, more detailed SC1 Era Behemoth. And it's only true that all BCs use the same model in game, as in story mode as I have shown previously and provided images of, Minotaurs (and Wraiths and Ravens) do appear in Storymode cinematics alongside Behemoth classes using the Hyperion model.
As for Mengst and Warfield, well there's nothing to indicate that the Dominion simply scrapped all their remaining Behemoth classes, and it's not impossible for an older class of ship to still be used as a flagship. Consider that all the points I mentioned suggest the Behemoth is bigger, and we know from the novels the Hyperion itself is more spacious than a standard Behemoth as well, so it's even likely that Mengst would have the biggest ship in the fleet as his flagship. It's certainly lavishly decorated the observatory we see. Add to this that if you look at the talk page for the Bucephalas, there is a discussion about the complete lack of any evidence that it is a Minotaur class. Given that it uses the Hyperion model I'm inclined to think it is a Behemoth class.
Concerning Warfield, well the unit for when his battlecruiser crashes is called the Helios. Even allowing for different names in the editor, we never see Prince Valerian on the surface of Char. When we do talk to him in the Char missions he seems to still be on his battlecruiser, seemingly suggesting Warfield transferred to another ship at some point before crashing on Char in the Minotaur Class Helios.
So no, in my honest opinion from my own observation of the models, I don't think I have it backwards. However I can see we'll never agree on this so I suggest we leave it as it is as we have both made out views abundantly clear.
As an addendum concerning the Marine and the Firebat and such, it is apparent from interviews with the art team of SC2 that they do consider previous graphics when designing the SC2 versions. It is a mixture of art evolution (such as the Zerg being less smooth and, to be honest, boring IMO) and in universe evolution of design.
Sometimes they feed each other, for example in the StarCraft Manga a Viking Prototype is shown called the Wyrm which uses an earlier concept of the Viking and makes it an in universe early design.
I also recall concerning the Marine specifically that on the behind the scenes DVD of WoL they mention that they were keen to preserve recognisable design elements from the original game sprites, moreso than the cinematics. Hence the SC2 Marine having the oversized, Team coloured pauldrons (for example) and let us not forget the oversized codpiece! =)
With the Firebat and Marine, perhaps the armour numbers designate a role, for example the CMC300 designating Marine armour and CMC660 designating a Firebat, even though there has certainly been variation in both, with some such as the Marine not changing much and others such as the Firebat changing a great deal?
Fair enough, but Battlecruisers are another exception as the SC2 ones do have a distinct class name (Minotaur) and are clearly different to artwork of the Behemoth class.
I think I'll bow out of the discussion though, I've said everything I want to and will just start repeating myself otherwise, so enjoy!
Concerning the carriers, when asked Blizz people have referred to the ones with armament beyond interceptors as Super Carriers (such as the Ganthrithor). Here's hoping that come Legacy of the Void, we might see one in game (such as Selendis who likely flies one) with maybe a 'lasor cannon' ability.
Also, concerning the Bucephalus, despite what StarCraft wiki says I'm not sure where their info that it even IS a Minotaur class comes from...
Anyhoo, as interesting as all this discussion IS, it's not helping the OP. Whether or not you put it down to art evolution, lore, or both, and regardless of re-uses of current models for older stuff (such as Marine armour) to save on making entirely seperate models for rather minor uses, putting all that aside there are a number of differences between the SC1 Battlecruiser and the SC2 Battlecruiser, and it would be nice if someone made a model of a SC1 Era cruiser for SC2. Heck, maybe I'll give it a go sometime :)
I can see we won't agree on most of these points so I won't reply further as we've said our opinions so let's just agree to disagree :)
As for Tychus, my reasoning is that it has the the pinup girl spraypainted onto one of the pauldrons as well as number markings (possibly squad markings of some sort). If Mengst was giving him a new suit I doubt it would have such personalized touches. Also the paint and such is chipped and the armour has clearly seen use and not factory new, and is in Confederate blue (I am aware there are however some Dominion units using blue as well)
And all this doesn't even count that Tychus is a BIG guy even without his armour (as can be seen in the Samwise artwork of the Heaven's Devils - Raynor and Tychus' old unit) so would probably need specially modified armour.
Edit: And I just noticed something, I have to dissagree the quote about the Hyperion being depicted as a Minotaur in artwork and concepts. The only time it is depicted as a Minotaur is it's one in mission appearance where it uses a scaled up Minotaur. All other appearances are clearly Behemoth class, and lorewise it is stated to be a Behemoth class (being from Starcraft 1)
Edit 2: As for the types of Marine/Firebat armour, it's not unheard of to have sub marks in equipment.
Hmm well when animated it seems to be closer (the char pic), and there are ones using Hyperion models further away...
I'm not denying there are cases of the Hyperion model being used for Minotaur classes (and vice-versa), but I don't think all the changes between the Behemoth and the Minotaur are just art evolution, as there are a number of design elements different between the Minotaur in game model and concepts and the Behemoth in game models and concepts.
To me, the picture you linked from SC First Contact (great video!) nicely shows a case of art evolution for the Behemoth class from SC1 to SC2, with greater detailing but still the clear large details between both versions of the Behemoth such as the general shape of the engines, hammerhead and bridge.
The same can be said of the Marine example - the Marines in SC2 are a more recent model of armour in universe than the ones used in BW. Tychus throws some confusion in as his suit of armour is presumably of Guild War era. However, this can be explained (in a meta sense) as the original version of the SC2 Intro was of a generic Marine in a barracks suiting up, as opposed to the intro version which is Tychus in New Folsom Prison, and rather than remodel the entire very complex Marine armour, they left it as it was.
So yes, there are some examples of anachronistic model uses, but there are very clear design changes beyond simple design evolution in universe. Another example of which being the Siege tank which is also a newer model in universe, or the Firebat which is very different to SC1 but is again more than just art evolution as it's an entirely different type of suit to the BW version.
Long post short however, in regards to the intention of the OP of this thread, the SC1 Behemoth Battlecruiser and SC2 Minotaur do, IMO have designs varied enough to be distinct in game.
Hmm well the yellow frame indicates the currently selected window, so if you set it to show two windows and select the one you're NOT taking the screenshot from, that should fix that half of things... as for the text, I'd need to have a look more in depth but I'm sure there's a way around it... possibly using the director window?
Edit: The Director window doesn't show the text or the yellow frame. So that's probably your best bet.
No... they're really not. I mean, Wraiths are there but as you can see in the screenshots below, so are the Minotaurs (game model) and a Behemoth (Hyperion model)
The first is from the camera of the cinematic, the second from above to more accurately demonstrate the size difference.
And concerning Valerian's fleet, while in the cinematic they show the Hyperion model in battle, when a little later they show wrecked cruisers floating in space they use Minotaurs... I think some cases yes they are using the Hyperion model for Minotaurs, but in others I think there is a mix of Minotaurs and Behemoths.
Edit, just checked again. The wreckage field cinematic also uses a mix of Behemoths and Minotaurs
Even allowing for forced perspective scaling, the Minotaur is clearly smaller and I see no reason they would have used both models if they were all supposed to be the same class.
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@SoulFilcher: Go
Sorry if this is the wrong place but wasn't sure whether to post in your other mod thread as this is to do with this mod.. anyhoo here's a WIP picture of my start on making the Sloth. I've shifted around the cab and some other parts to centre it and make it a bit more like a Bulldozer (minus the Dozer blades) and added the Thor cannons. Considering how big it is I shrunk the cab a bit as well to give a sense of size. At this point I'm not sure what to do with the flatbed part yet. Is this something like what you'd like for the Sloth?
0
@JacktheArcher: Go
Huh... I'll look into that :S Thanks for reporting it! Though, I've not added any lighting to my knowledge...
Edit: From your picture it seems like it's switching off the shading... problem is I'm not able to recreate the above screenied bug in my editor.... is anyone else able to recreate/experience this bug and if so, does anyone have any ideas?
0
@JacktheArcher: Go
@SoulFilcher: Go
Thanks, both of you! As for making the models, well I've always had an artistic flare but as far as game models (kitbashing anyway) go I think it's just practice, I did a few back in my Warcraft 3 days so I'm already familiar with some things I can apply to StarCraft II :)
Edit: Good news! My Kani's Models asset has been approved!
0
I also think GhostNova deserves a place. He really pushes the boundaries of what can be done with his models with very polished models. It was his models that inspired me to give SC2 model kitbashing a go :)
I also think those behind the M3 Exporter and the Blender Tools (and any other such tools I'm unaware of) should get top billing... afterall without them, nobody else would be on the list :)
0
@Gradius12: Go
Thanks ^^
@GhostNova91: Go
Wow, thanks for the compliment hehe. I'll do my best :)
Edit: As has been pointed out to me, I forgot to mention that the Engi came about from a chat I was having with my good friend HandClaw, who suggested a number of design elements including the SCV Fusion Welder, and the Nomad crane. So thank you HandClaw!
Edit2: As has also been pointed out to me, the Marine Engineer idea came up due to a picture HandClaw did of a Terran Engineer
0
@Gradius12: Go
I'm afraid I have to disagree. Perfectly illustated by the Freespace Films picture (the Legacy cinematic one) the broad shapes of the classic Behemoth and the Hyperion (which is the only one of these cruisers we know 100% for certain is a Behemoth lorewise) have far more in common than the Hyperion and the Minotaur. For one the Minotaur has an elevated bridge section that widens out, the Hyperion and classic Behemoth it is nestled into the rear engine section.
In addition the Hyperion and Behemoth, the engine section extends backwards from the wings, whereas the Minotaur it is more level with the rear of the Wings. The Minotaur's wings and hammerhead also swoop downwards more whereas the Hyperion and Behemoth are more level.
The Minotaur's neck section appears to be semi hollow/framelike, with the Yamato cannon visible whereas the Hyperion/Behemoth is solid.
The Minotaur has laser cannons mounted along the neck, whereas the Hyperion/Behemoth they are clusted on the hammerhead (which fits with descriptions of the Behemoth class) and the hammerhead opens when firing the Yamato cannon.
And this isn't even to mention the variation in the size of windows on the Hyperion and the Minotaur (there are windows visible on the in game one) which suggests the Hyperion is far larger than the Minotaur)
In short, for the reasons I've stated the Hyperion looks nothing like the Minotaur, but very much like a higher poly, more detailed SC1 Era Behemoth. And it's only true that all BCs use the same model in game, as in story mode as I have shown previously and provided images of, Minotaurs (and Wraiths and Ravens) do appear in Storymode cinematics alongside Behemoth classes using the Hyperion model.
As for Mengst and Warfield, well there's nothing to indicate that the Dominion simply scrapped all their remaining Behemoth classes, and it's not impossible for an older class of ship to still be used as a flagship. Consider that all the points I mentioned suggest the Behemoth is bigger, and we know from the novels the Hyperion itself is more spacious than a standard Behemoth as well, so it's even likely that Mengst would have the biggest ship in the fleet as his flagship. It's certainly lavishly decorated the observatory we see. Add to this that if you look at the talk page for the Bucephalas, there is a discussion about the complete lack of any evidence that it is a Minotaur class. Given that it uses the Hyperion model I'm inclined to think it is a Behemoth class.
Concerning Warfield, well the unit for when his battlecruiser crashes is called the Helios. Even allowing for different names in the editor, we never see Prince Valerian on the surface of Char. When we do talk to him in the Char missions he seems to still be on his battlecruiser, seemingly suggesting Warfield transferred to another ship at some point before crashing on Char in the Minotaur Class Helios.
So no, in my honest opinion from my own observation of the models, I don't think I have it backwards. However I can see we'll never agree on this so I suggest we leave it as it is as we have both made out views abundantly clear.
As an addendum concerning the Marine and the Firebat and such, it is apparent from interviews with the art team of SC2 that they do consider previous graphics when designing the SC2 versions. It is a mixture of art evolution (such as the Zerg being less smooth and, to be honest, boring IMO) and in universe evolution of design.
Sometimes they feed each other, for example in the StarCraft Manga a Viking Prototype is shown called the Wyrm which uses an earlier concept of the Viking and makes it an in universe early design.
I also recall concerning the Marine specifically that on the behind the scenes DVD of WoL they mention that they were keen to preserve recognisable design elements from the original game sprites, moreso than the cinematics. Hence the SC2 Marine having the oversized, Team coloured pauldrons (for example) and let us not forget the oversized codpiece! =)
With the Firebat and Marine, perhaps the armour numbers designate a role, for example the CMC300 designating Marine armour and CMC660 designating a Firebat, even though there has certainly been variation in both, with some such as the Marine not changing much and others such as the Firebat changing a great deal?
0
@Kanitala: Go
Here's a pic of my latest project, the Marine Engineer.
The concept is for basically a mech unit medic
0
@SoulFilcher: Go
Fair enough, but Battlecruisers are another exception as the SC2 ones do have a distinct class name (Minotaur) and are clearly different to artwork of the Behemoth class.
I think I'll bow out of the discussion though, I've said everything I want to and will just start repeating myself otherwise, so enjoy!
0
@Bogdan254: Go
Concerning the carriers, when asked Blizz people have referred to the ones with armament beyond interceptors as Super Carriers (such as the Ganthrithor). Here's hoping that come Legacy of the Void, we might see one in game (such as Selendis who likely flies one) with maybe a 'lasor cannon' ability.
Also, concerning the Bucephalus, despite what StarCraft wiki says I'm not sure where their info that it even IS a Minotaur class comes from...
Anyhoo, as interesting as all this discussion IS, it's not helping the OP. Whether or not you put it down to art evolution, lore, or both, and regardless of re-uses of current models for older stuff (such as Marine armour) to save on making entirely seperate models for rather minor uses, putting all that aside there are a number of differences between the SC1 Battlecruiser and the SC2 Battlecruiser, and it would be nice if someone made a model of a SC1 Era cruiser for SC2. Heck, maybe I'll give it a go sometime :)
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@JacktheArcher: Go
Hopefully :)
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@SoulFilcher: Go
I've just uploaded the Juggernaught to Assets, it's just awaiting approval
0
@Gradius12: Go
I can see we won't agree on most of these points so I won't reply further as we've said our opinions so let's just agree to disagree :)
As for Tychus, my reasoning is that it has the the pinup girl spraypainted onto one of the pauldrons as well as number markings (possibly squad markings of some sort). If Mengst was giving him a new suit I doubt it would have such personalized touches. Also the paint and such is chipped and the armour has clearly seen use and not factory new, and is in Confederate blue (I am aware there are however some Dominion units using blue as well)
And all this doesn't even count that Tychus is a BIG guy even without his armour (as can be seen in the Samwise artwork of the Heaven's Devils - Raynor and Tychus' old unit) so would probably need specially modified armour.
Edit: And I just noticed something, I have to dissagree the quote about the Hyperion being depicted as a Minotaur in artwork and concepts. The only time it is depicted as a Minotaur is it's one in mission appearance where it uses a scaled up Minotaur. All other appearances are clearly Behemoth class, and lorewise it is stated to be a Behemoth class (being from Starcraft 1)
Edit 2: As for the types of Marine/Firebat armour, it's not unheard of to have sub marks in equipment.
0
@Gradius12: Go
Hmm well when animated it seems to be closer (the char pic), and there are ones using Hyperion models further away...
I'm not denying there are cases of the Hyperion model being used for Minotaur classes (and vice-versa), but I don't think all the changes between the Behemoth and the Minotaur are just art evolution, as there are a number of design elements different between the Minotaur in game model and concepts and the Behemoth in game models and concepts.
To me, the picture you linked from SC First Contact (great video!) nicely shows a case of art evolution for the Behemoth class from SC1 to SC2, with greater detailing but still the clear large details between both versions of the Behemoth such as the general shape of the engines, hammerhead and bridge.
The same can be said of the Marine example - the Marines in SC2 are a more recent model of armour in universe than the ones used in BW. Tychus throws some confusion in as his suit of armour is presumably of Guild War era. However, this can be explained (in a meta sense) as the original version of the SC2 Intro was of a generic Marine in a barracks suiting up, as opposed to the intro version which is Tychus in New Folsom Prison, and rather than remodel the entire very complex Marine armour, they left it as it was.
So yes, there are some examples of anachronistic model uses, but there are very clear design changes beyond simple design evolution in universe. Another example of which being the Siege tank which is also a newer model in universe, or the Firebat which is very different to SC1 but is again more than just art evolution as it's an entirely different type of suit to the BW version.
Long post short however, in regards to the intention of the OP of this thread, the SC1 Behemoth Battlecruiser and SC2 Minotaur do, IMO have designs varied enough to be distinct in game.
0
@rikky333: Go
Hmm well the yellow frame indicates the currently selected window, so if you set it to show two windows and select the one you're NOT taking the screenshot from, that should fix that half of things... as for the text, I'd need to have a look more in depth but I'm sure there's a way around it... possibly using the director window?
Edit: The Director window doesn't show the text or the yellow frame. So that's probably your best bet.
0
@Gradius12: Go
No... they're really not. I mean, Wraiths are there but as you can see in the screenshots below, so are the Minotaurs (game model) and a Behemoth (Hyperion model)
The first is from the camera of the cinematic, the second from above to more accurately demonstrate the size difference.
And concerning Valerian's fleet, while in the cinematic they show the Hyperion model in battle, when a little later they show wrecked cruisers floating in space they use Minotaurs... I think some cases yes they are using the Hyperion model for Minotaurs, but in others I think there is a mix of Minotaurs and Behemoths.
Edit, just checked again. The wreckage field cinematic also uses a mix of Behemoths and Minotaurs
Even allowing for forced perspective scaling, the Minotaur is clearly smaller and I see no reason they would have used both models if they were all supposed to be the same class.