Excellent post. I like this topic. I would like to share some thoughts for it. When it comes to Base defense maps it would be interesting how many ways you could go about to force that perspective and style of play. I usually tend to make these Base defense maps like a Chess games where you must keep the Hero alive to the end otherwise you loss. They get the impossible feeling because how easy it is to loss your hero and how difficult the attack waves but its not hard at all defending once you effectively know how remember chess game is about what you have and where you have it and I really stress this when it come to the End game Boss because the only certain Hero attacks will work because it's invincible to most damage.
Now about the Base defense map I like to make the map little bit bigger then it needs to be so that the spawning attacking units can spawn outside your box of vision on the map so they just don't appear out of no where on screen. For the Base defense map(picture example) I like to have the feeling that you are immersed in the base to the point you get the feeling that the base has hidden mystery's to be uncovered for example hidden minerals and/or gas along with other hidden base stuff that can be done.
When it comes to difficulty it really is within your mind how you perceive how difficult you think it is. In reality its easy but difficult enough that is forces you to play the scenario. The factor of Easy and Hard could just be an 120 second upgrade away. Think about it. I leave it at that for now.
Its great to hear that your getting it to work! :) however, I never said you should use the vespene behavior to get this working, I just use the vespene geyser as a example, The picture just shows what is required for the refinery to be built on the vespene geyser. What was important for me was to have a validator on what your building in the object values if you want units like the SCV to build on certain structures at specific locations of the map.
In order to have a fixed building placement you must first have a fixed footprint. This will work just like the vespene geyser and the ability to build the refinery specifically at that location. Its very easy to do but its important to have a validator in order for this to work. Check out this thread and study the picture at the bottom of the thread, That all that is needed to do to get this working. The picture shows what is required for the refinery to be built on the vespene geyser.
Now I see what your talking about. I've always look at the list of triggers through that selection box when creating them.
Instead of using the global suicide trigger I use the send attack wave trigger on this map. Now there are plenty of reason to have units the have no attack in defense map like Transport units, they have no attack and can be useful for deploying units in areas on the map. Also certain kinds of spell caster also have no attacks and solely rely upon abilities to deal damage. In one of my previous map, Zertaul is invisible and when he use the void prism on the overseers to stop the detection the Ai stop all function on the overseer after the spell is finished. In that map I believe I use the suicide trigger to order units to attack. Now the question here is how would you make the Ai here keep control over the Overseer and keep it moving around when Zeratul void prism have finished its effect on it.
Thanks, deleting the melee Ai worked. The phoenixes didn't even spawn. I will certainly give it a try in building my own Ai by reading the inbuilt scrips but first where are the scripts at in order to read. The suicide Ai works but when it comes to units with no attack that is where the problems arise with this trigger. So implementation of more strategic Ai control is certainly needed here.
Thanks for the suggestion. I removed the Build ability from the super warp gate and the phoenix still warp in. However, the trigger that I used to disable the super warp gate's production did work out. I also moved the super warp gate away from the corner on the map into a new location and the phoenix still warp in near the warp gate and because the super warp gate was in a new position away from the corner of the map the phoenix then headed to the spot that you see in the example picture. The Ai is with out doubt is building them some how through other means but it always never builds more then two. Sometimes it builds one at the very start of the game and then it waits till the 10-13 min mark to build the other one. But other then building them the Ai does nothing else with them and the phoenixes just sits idle in the corner.
Ghost or not I'm going to try and figure exactly out what is going on here with the super warp gate. I'm thinking the computer Ai is automatically building them some how. To start I just deleted the Super Warp gate on my map and the Phoenix did not show up in the game. Very interesting stuff exactly what I wanted to see. Now next I wonder if I put two super warp gates in the map will this double the amount of phoenix show up or will they even show up at all after I deleted the super warp gate. I will get back on this.
Now that has been said my next question is if the Ai is building them how could you stop this sort of control or will this disable the Ai all together??
Certainly some creepy stuff happening here. So what is it everyone? Did Blizzard HotS dependencies hack my game and cause this Or is the Ai starting to become sentient and self aware. My guess is the later.
Here is the map, I think the AI is putting them there. From my experience with other maps, I've seen the AI puts the units or make units move in that part of the map when there is no given point to.
I just got SC2 HotS and I updated my maps to the HotS dependencies and some weird things are going on I have no idea how its happening or to correct. Here is the problem, I have a super warp gate in the corner of my map and after the HotS update during usually around 10 minuets I notice two phoenix will fly in over this super warp gate and stay there. This never happen in WoL version of the map nor was there anything made to for the phoenixes to appear in that version. I've looked through the triggers and nothing seems to be responsible for this because when the phoenix make their appearance in the map and it dont coincide with any of the running triggers. So how are these phoenix flying into the map?
Edit Solved: I had to many AI scripts running at the same time in the map. Deleting the advance Melee AI script fixed the problem on the Super Warp Gate warping the Phoenix in the map.
Well I did lots of searching on this last night and I found out that in order to have walkable bridges, it needs a physics body within the model in order to support units to walk on top. I put some links to a couple of threads that go in to discussions about this bridge issue.
@Ahli634: Go Thanks I've looked at it :) and it is very interesting! Your train system is working excellent. Unbelievable that there is a functional train lift that is able to segmentally lift portions of the train up instead of lifting the entire train as a whole, that is incredible. I have no Idea how the train can follow the tracks, I guess that your controlling the movement of the train through triggers as well.
For terrain boosting, you need to use footprints and units in tandem. There is a flag in placement apply of footprints that boosts the height of the terrain for that cell and then in units their is a field for how much the height is boosted. I think the height boost comes from the unit using the footprint, but I'm not sure.
As for the reaper movement, the Reaper has a Jump behavior, and that behavior controls how much of a cliff level difference or height difference must exist for it to do the jump.
@ArcaneDurandel: Go That what I've been trying to get to function for past 2 days is that Cliff boosts. I still haven't figure it out but here is a picture of what im doing.
I have no idea how it would do so. Seeing as you will only modify the height of the engines and not other units. If anything it will support overpasses perfectly.
@ImperialGood: GoOk I see where you going at now with this, That sounds awesome just modify the height on the train engine so its above the tracks and everything that is in the region is unaffected but how would you keep the train from going off track.
Because this is going to be done with both doodads and units as elements for the train system. I thought it would be a good idea to do some basic test with the doodads bridges to get some understanding towards what is going on here, so I decided to change the pathing on the sides on the bridge from a unpathable terrain to a cliff edge and see how the Reaper behave when Jump up or down the cliff edges on the bridge. The results are interesting so I decided to make some pictures of this. For the most part the Reaper only jumps when the command is given on a higher or lower part of the terrain it wont jump over to the other cliff sides if the reaper is on the same terrain level where the click occurs and this also applies if the click is made on part of the bridge that is above the same terrain level as the Reaper. Even if it looks perfect for the Reaper to jump up over on it, It will not happen and the reaper just wiggles around with no where to go.
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Excellent post. I like this topic. I would like to share some thoughts for it. When it comes to Base defense maps it would be interesting how many ways you could go about to force that perspective and style of play. I usually tend to make these Base defense maps like a Chess games where you must keep the Hero alive to the end otherwise you loss. They get the impossible feeling because how easy it is to loss your hero and how difficult the attack waves but its not hard at all defending once you effectively know how remember chess game is about what you have and where you have it and I really stress this when it come to the End game Boss because the only certain Hero attacks will work because it's invincible to most damage.
Now about the Base defense map I like to make the map little bit bigger then it needs to be so that the spawning attacking units can spawn outside your box of vision on the map so they just don't appear out of no where on screen. For the Base defense map(picture example) I like to have the feeling that you are immersed in the base to the point you get the feeling that the base has hidden mystery's to be uncovered for example hidden minerals and/or gas along with other hidden base stuff that can be done.
When it comes to difficulty it really is within your mind how you perceive how difficult you think it is. In reality its easy but difficult enough that is forces you to play the scenario. The factor of Easy and Hard could just be an 120 second upgrade away. Think about it. I leave it at that for now.
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Well it has been 1 year and 6 days since the last post... has arcade night come to an end or did everyone find something new to do.
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Thanks, Your welcome.
Its great to hear that your getting it to work! :) however, I never said you should use the vespene behavior to get this working, I just use the vespene geyser as a example, The picture just shows what is required for the refinery to be built on the vespene geyser. What was important for me was to have a validator on what your building in the object values if you want units like the SCV to build on certain structures at specific locations of the map.
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In order to have a fixed building placement you must first have a fixed footprint. This will work just like the vespene geyser and the ability to build the refinery specifically at that location. Its very easy to do but its important to have a validator in order for this to work. Check out this thread and study the picture at the bottom of the thread, That all that is needed to do to get this working. The picture shows what is required for the refinery to be built on the vespene geyser.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/data/57695-solved-units-abilities-validators-building-on-footprints/#p9
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Now I see what your talking about. I've always look at the list of triggers through that selection box when creating them.
Instead of using the global suicide trigger I use the send attack wave trigger on this map. Now there are plenty of reason to have units the have no attack in defense map like Transport units, they have no attack and can be useful for deploying units in areas on the map. Also certain kinds of spell caster also have no attacks and solely rely upon abilities to deal damage. In one of my previous map, Zertaul is invisible and when he use the void prism on the overseers to stop the detection the Ai stop all function on the overseer after the spell is finished. In that map I believe I use the suicide trigger to order units to attack. Now the question here is how would you make the Ai here keep control over the Overseer and keep it moving around when Zeratul void prism have finished its effect on it.
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Thanks, deleting the melee Ai worked. The phoenixes didn't even spawn. I will certainly give it a try in building my own Ai by reading the inbuilt scrips but first where are the scripts at in order to read. The suicide Ai works but when it comes to units with no attack that is where the problems arise with this trigger. So implementation of more strategic Ai control is certainly needed here.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I removed the Build ability from the super warp gate and the phoenix still warp in. However, the trigger that I used to disable the super warp gate's production did work out. I also moved the super warp gate away from the corner on the map into a new location and the phoenix still warp in near the warp gate and because the super warp gate was in a new position away from the corner of the map the phoenix then headed to the spot that you see in the example picture. The Ai is with out doubt is building them some how through other means but it always never builds more then two. Sometimes it builds one at the very start of the game and then it waits till the 10-13 min mark to build the other one. But other then building them the Ai does nothing else with them and the phoenixes just sits idle in the corner.
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Ghost or not I'm going to try and figure exactly out what is going on here with the super warp gate. I'm thinking the computer Ai is automatically building them some how. To start I just deleted the Super Warp gate on my map and the Phoenix did not show up in the game. Very interesting stuff exactly what I wanted to see. Now next I wonder if I put two super warp gates in the map will this double the amount of phoenix show up or will they even show up at all after I deleted the super warp gate. I will get back on this.
Now that has been said my next question is if the Ai is building them how could you stop this sort of control or will this disable the Ai all together??
0
Certainly some creepy stuff happening here. So what is it everyone? Did Blizzard HotS dependencies hack my game and cause this Or is the Ai starting to become sentient and self aware. My guess is the later.
0
Here is the map, I think the AI is putting them there. From my experience with other maps, I've seen the AI puts the units or make units move in that part of the map when there is no given point to.
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Here is a screenshot of the two phoenixes I'm talking about. They come out of nowhere on the bottom left hand corner.
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Dang, how do you fix that? Did you see it happen too?
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I just got SC2 HotS and I updated my maps to the HotS dependencies and some weird things are going on I have no idea how its happening or to correct. Here is the problem, I have a super warp gate in the corner of my map and after the HotS update during usually around 10 minuets I notice two phoenix will fly in over this super warp gate and stay there. This never happen in WoL version of the map nor was there anything made to for the phoenixes to appear in that version. I've looked through the triggers and nothing seems to be responsible for this because when the phoenix make their appearance in the map and it dont coincide with any of the running triggers. So how are these phoenix flying into the map?
Edit Solved: I had to many AI scripts running at the same time in the map. Deleting the advance Melee AI script fixed the problem on the Super Warp Gate warping the Phoenix in the map.
The post that solved it. http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/data/72688-solved-what-is-going-on-here/#p15
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Well I did lots of searching on this last night and I found out that in order to have walkable bridges, it needs a physics body within the model in order to support units to walk on top. I put some links to a couple of threads that go in to discussions about this bridge issue.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/artist-tavern/17513-bridge-collision/ http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/terrain/44756-solved-help-with-bridges-and-pathing/
[guide] actor types http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6893650650
@Ahli634: Go Thanks I've looked at it :) and it is very interesting! Your train system is working excellent. Unbelievable that there is a functional train lift that is able to segmentally lift portions of the train up instead of lifting the entire train as a whole, that is incredible. I have no Idea how the train can follow the tracks, I guess that your controlling the movement of the train through triggers as well.
@ArcaneDurandel: Go That what I've been trying to get to function for past 2 days is that Cliff boosts. I still haven't figure it out but here is a picture of what im doing.
@ImperialGood: GoOk I see where you going at now with this, That sounds awesome just modify the height on the train engine so its above the tracks and everything that is in the region is unaffected but how would you keep the train from going off track.
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Because this is going to be done with both doodads and units as elements for the train system. I thought it would be a good idea to do some basic test with the doodads bridges to get some understanding towards what is going on here, so I decided to change the pathing on the sides on the bridge from a unpathable terrain to a cliff edge and see how the Reaper behave when Jump up or down the cliff edges on the bridge. The results are interesting so I decided to make some pictures of this. For the most part the Reaper only jumps when the command is given on a higher or lower part of the terrain it wont jump over to the other cliff sides if the reaper is on the same terrain level where the click occurs and this also applies if the click is made on part of the bridge that is above the same terrain level as the Reaper. Even if it looks perfect for the Reaper to jump up over on it, It will not happen and the reaper just wiggles around with no where to go.