o.O that is a rather unique way of bringing up a topic...
I played that map for a few hours and it was pretty fun, but it gets boring fast not because of the amount of players but because there are no real variables to it other than player reaction speed and "learned skill". That concept could totally be turned into sc2 mario kart too.., just add more "modes" with weapons, skins, different level/arenas, vastly different bike speeds and other aspects and keep the original mode as an option as well.
Some maps don't really need a lot of players 1v1, 2v2, etc..., others require players to be fun at all Civ, Risk type maps, Mafia, Hero Attack, others can combine those Empire Builder for example can be played solo, in team vs AI, or a PvP mode, basically all together, in all cases it can be a fun way to play, Kobolds is sort of similar as well, for learning purposes and even just playing you can more or less experience it solo the fun of just surviving, building a camp and gathering all the weapons/maxing out, but it shines the most and is made for team vs team.
The best maps are ones which generally combine all of the aspects and allow more options and choices, thus increasing the variety of play styles and make for more fun in choosing and playing.
I made maps on sc1 up until sc2, the year sc2 came out I opened the editor all of once, spent a few hours messing with terrain then looked at triggers and data and went psh... not happening, would have taken the same amount of effort to code a game from scratch as with sc2 editor with no resources back then.
Years later, now just about every issue or possible trigger combination has a thread with Q&A for it, the majority of which are on sc2mapster, also some on hive, and this one other sc2 forum site, it's relatively easy to learn and use the editor finally similar to sc1.
I've been learning the sc2 editor as I make a map for 2-4 months, and I've already figured out just about everything from terrain/textures, custom actor/model, requirement/validators data, custom UI layouts, all sorts of ways to use dialogs, multi array variables, and all sorts of goodies through the various threads.
There's a lot more parts to it than the sc1 editor still, but it just means that much more can be done using it, the hardest part to learn going from sc1 editor was how to use the indirect specify X player/ X unit triggers, all methods of specifying just about anything in sc2 editor feel like you have to use round-about methods compared to sc1, using general events/pick triggers then depending on conditions or if then statements, it's sort of understandable once you get used to it, but it was the hardest part of the sc2 editor to get used to from the sc1 editor...
I think more people would be willing and capable of using it more if they tried now, compared to when sc2 first came out, and after they learn it once, it's relatively easy to make just about any map, quit for a while and then come back to, just like how even up until sc2 came out, sc1 still had tons of great custom maps coming out for it, I don't think sc2 map editing will be dying out anytime soon, it will just keep growing slow and steady.
If I could I would like to re-make and see all my favorite sc1 maps again in sc2, impossible nirvana, crepuscular, civ world, rise of egypt/rome, a heroes path, star trek armada, golden knight, mage rpg, sorcery II, and so many others I can't even remember off the top of my head, hero wars and custom hero wars which are more exact duplicates of the sc1 versions might be interesting too, though hero attack did a very satisfying job of that one. Sometimes it feels like it might be fun to make maps that uses inconvenient methods of triggering like moving units to beacons or having stationary "place holder" units just for the nostalgia factor.
Hello everyone, its been a couple months(well technically my newest account has been here the past few days :P), Anyways I would like to apologize for my offensive language and attitude over the past several months. I realize I have been poisonous to both the community and myself, I have since realized my faults and am working on them.
I am writing this apology simply because... well I dunno to be honest, I just didn't feel it was right to leave people offended, From here on out, whether on mapster, or wherever I will be more polite, helpful, and will try not to say anything that people will find offensive, except those damn Antarctica bastards!!! They come over and steal all the penguins fishes.!!! they cant be allowed!!!!
-Thanks for reading TW.
Hmmm.... I still feel slightly offended by these accusations...
I removed all of the units one type at a time, though I'm still trying to figure out the exact cause it might have to do with unit placement in unpathable terrain, and then removing the stuck units with a trigger while they are misplaced. (the units are also in pre-made object/unit groups)
Removing all hydras removed 1 icon, zerglings account for 5 of the icons, and the other 3 I haven't figured out yet, from here at least I could change the mini map icons of all units on the map, but for now I'm going to try and figure out exactly what unit or placement issue is coming up.
I think I can figure the rest out from here, so thanks for the help.
I was working from scratch and removed all the starting melee triggers, though I only updated/added the dependencies quite a while after I started working on the map as I didn't know how to do that at first, so I was just using the basic WoL dependencies at the start, also I don't have HoTS and I didn't use any of those dependencies.
I'm only using 11 different doodads: Bloodspats, Bones - Maar Sara, Mar Sara Bridge Diagonal, Rock, Rock Large, Tree Mar Sara, Tree Mar Sara Dead, Tree Aiur, and Tree Agri, Tree Bel'shir, and Tree Haven
I think the only things shifted in those regions are Tree Aiur, Mar Sara, Rock, and Bloodspats
Going to try removing all triggers now and see if that changes anything...
Edit: I removed EVERY single trigger, other than the one that reveals the map for 15 seconds, and the icons are still there, so I can't imagine any trigger is causing it....
Edit2: I deleted all triggers, all doodads, all locations, all regions, all points, 0 of all of them total and the icons were still coming up. Also removed 2 of the dependencies, I couldn't remove story campaign or multi mod, the other 2 I was able to remove though...
Finally! I have determined which layer the icons are coming from, deleting all 900 units on the map and no more icons, it is definitely the units layer, at the very least from here I can try to figure out which unit in specific it is....
So, I just systematically nuked my map in every way possible here are the screenshots
Changes between each of the screenshot:
Changed texture/tile set
Removed all textures/Hid terrain cells/lighting/water/changed cliff level
Removed all units/doodads
Changed pathing
Removed all points/regions
Lowered map height/changed map bounds/camera
As far as I can tell, the placement shifts, in relation to terrain changes, and seems to be generating very very slightly different each play, meaning the exact location might be some kind of data or trigger, the problem is there is no region or points pointing to those locations...
There is no unit, actor, or doodad in those locations, nothing exists at all, no regions, no points, no creation or move triggers, no doodads in the editor, none in-game.
The invisible unit I have setup there is a temporary fix, by creating a small 3 sight radius at the point for players who walk there they always have vision of the spot and therefore no longer see the icon, but it still looks kind of bad....
Edit: heres some more before & after screenshots of the area, the only changes I think I made to that area are moving regions/points/locations around, and adjusting the terrain/pathing, I didn't add any new doodads, so for another icon to come up it has to be related to terrain most likely?
Either that or moving one of the initial problem doodads or units created another perma icon... no idea...
I'm not in any major hurry to get this fixed, but just figured I'd mention I'm still looking for a permanent fix for this (currently using the invisible unit @ location method).
I tried removing all doodads and units within a 30-50 coordinate radius and I've adjusted quite a few settings, and even completely changed the terrain in a few areas where the icons up recently and there's been no changes to those icons, so still no idea what they are or could be.
I was planning a terrain overhaul eventually, and if it's not something data related it might be related to hidden terrain cells, lighting, map height or cliff level or something, as there are a few areas on my map which I feel the terrain is a bit "broken", though I've tried smoothing, uniforming, and changing terrain otherwise in the areas with the icons so no idea if that will fix remaking the entire terrain.
Edit: actually it seems ANOTHER one has appeared recently, slightly above where the others used to be.... I think I'll go over some of my backups and try to figure out what change it started appearing after to try and determine the cause.
Go the apocalypse route and surround it with red sand dunes, and desert, or go the modern route and build the rest of a properly functioning city around it as if something just happened in the middle of a normal day city to cause that....
Turn it into an apocalyptic underwater treasure searching map, where you dive into submerged buildings buried in a desert looking for hidden treasures, ooo~
An invisible unit with 0.1 mini map radius and 3 sight range (probably 1-2 if I centered it perfectly), keeps the icon from appearing, so for now I just have it create the inviso unit centered on the region over the icon area for a player when they enter that region, thanks for the help guys.
It would be awesome if someone could figure out what the underlying cause is though, it has to be some weird unit or something...
Why not have an opening sequence where the GUI is hidden and some banshees/broodlords/tempest owned by you fly across the ofending areas.
I'm not sure what the aim of that would be? Using an invisible unit with low sight would probably work if it was just a matter of giving vision, the problem is the icons never disappear unless each player permanently has something there, I already have it so all the beacons/resources on my map give vision of for 0.1 seconds to they appear in grey mask for all players.
Though I wouldn't want those areas to be grey mask because it would just make the icon visible for all players from the start.
The invisible unit method should probably work as a temporary fix, still just curious of what the cause is...
I just created a trigger that removes effects, doodads, units, animations, kills particles, etc... in a test region where it is, it killed all the nearby tree doodads but icon is still there, I've tried even selecting down to the 4 terrain lighting layers, I even removed all my fish and birds....
The icons go away when you have vision, and they don't show up at all in black mask, the only time it appears is in grey mask, you can be standing next to it if it's on a higher cliff level and it won't disappear because you don't have sight of it as well, there's one spot that is on a cliff.
0
There's a melee map making scene? Wait.. people play melee?
0
o.O that is a rather unique way of bringing up a topic...
I played that map for a few hours and it was pretty fun, but it gets boring fast not because of the amount of players but because there are no real variables to it other than player reaction speed and "learned skill". That concept could totally be turned into sc2 mario kart too.., just add more "modes" with weapons, skins, different level/arenas, vastly different bike speeds and other aspects and keep the original mode as an option as well.
Some maps don't really need a lot of players 1v1, 2v2, etc..., others require players to be fun at all Civ, Risk type maps, Mafia, Hero Attack, others can combine those Empire Builder for example can be played solo, in team vs AI, or a PvP mode, basically all together, in all cases it can be a fun way to play, Kobolds is sort of similar as well, for learning purposes and even just playing you can more or less experience it solo the fun of just surviving, building a camp and gathering all the weapons/maxing out, but it shines the most and is made for team vs team.
The best maps are ones which generally combine all of the aspects and allow more options and choices, thus increasing the variety of play styles and make for more fun in choosing and playing.
0
Didn't read the majority of this thread....
I made maps on sc1 up until sc2, the year sc2 came out I opened the editor all of once, spent a few hours messing with terrain then looked at triggers and data and went psh... not happening, would have taken the same amount of effort to code a game from scratch as with sc2 editor with no resources back then.
Years later, now just about every issue or possible trigger combination has a thread with Q&A for it, the majority of which are on sc2mapster, also some on hive, and this one other sc2 forum site, it's relatively easy to learn and use the editor finally similar to sc1.
I've been learning the sc2 editor as I make a map for 2-4 months, and I've already figured out just about everything from terrain/textures, custom actor/model, requirement/validators data, custom UI layouts, all sorts of ways to use dialogs, multi array variables, and all sorts of goodies through the various threads.
There's a lot more parts to it than the sc1 editor still, but it just means that much more can be done using it, the hardest part to learn going from sc1 editor was how to use the indirect specify X player/ X unit triggers, all methods of specifying just about anything in sc2 editor feel like you have to use round-about methods compared to sc1, using general events/pick triggers then depending on conditions or if then statements, it's sort of understandable once you get used to it, but it was the hardest part of the sc2 editor to get used to from the sc1 editor...
I think more people would be willing and capable of using it more if they tried now, compared to when sc2 first came out, and after they learn it once, it's relatively easy to make just about any map, quit for a while and then come back to, just like how even up until sc2 came out, sc1 still had tons of great custom maps coming out for it, I don't think sc2 map editing will be dying out anytime soon, it will just keep growing slow and steady.
If I could I would like to re-make and see all my favorite sc1 maps again in sc2, impossible nirvana, crepuscular, civ world, rise of egypt/rome, a heroes path, star trek armada, golden knight, mage rpg, sorcery II, and so many others I can't even remember off the top of my head, hero wars and custom hero wars which are more exact duplicates of the sc1 versions might be interesting too, though hero attack did a very satisfying job of that one. Sometimes it feels like it might be fun to make maps that uses inconvenient methods of triggering like moving units to beacons or having stationary "place holder" units just for the nostalgia factor.
0
@SoulFilcher: Go
Time to commit suicide. BRB
0
As a native Antarctican I propose he stays banned due to the offensive nature of the first post of this thread!
Also, my grill is hotter!
0
Hmmm.... I still feel slightly offended by these accusations...
0
I removed all of the units one type at a time, though I'm still trying to figure out the exact cause it might have to do with unit placement in unpathable terrain, and then removing the stuck units with a trigger while they are misplaced. (the units are also in pre-made object/unit groups)
Removing all hydras removed 1 icon, zerglings account for 5 of the icons, and the other 3 I haven't figured out yet, from here at least I could change the mini map icons of all units on the map, but for now I'm going to try and figure out exactly what unit or placement issue is coming up.
I think I can figure the rest out from here, so thanks for the help.
0
I was working from scratch and removed all the starting melee triggers, though I only updated/added the dependencies quite a while after I started working on the map as I didn't know how to do that at first, so I was just using the basic WoL dependencies at the start, also I don't have HoTS and I didn't use any of those dependencies.
I'm only using 11 different doodads: Bloodspats, Bones - Maar Sara, Mar Sara Bridge Diagonal, Rock, Rock Large, Tree Mar Sara, Tree Mar Sara Dead, Tree Aiur, and Tree Agri, Tree Bel'shir, and Tree Haven
I think the only things shifted in those regions are Tree Aiur, Mar Sara, Rock, and Bloodspats
Going to try removing all triggers now and see if that changes anything...
Edit: I removed EVERY single trigger, other than the one that reveals the map for 15 seconds, and the icons are still there, so I can't imagine any trigger is causing it....
http://i.imgur.com/0kzEkWW.jpg < my entire trigger page and the icons still came up
Edit2: I deleted all triggers, all doodads, all locations, all regions, all points, 0 of all of them total and the icons were still coming up. Also removed 2 of the dependencies, I couldn't remove story campaign or multi mod, the other 2 I was able to remove though...
Finally! I have determined which layer the icons are coming from, deleting all 900 units on the map and no more icons, it is definitely the units layer, at the very least from here I can try to figure out which unit in specific it is....
0
So, I just systematically nuked my map in every way possible here are the screenshots
Changes between each of the screenshot: Changed texture/tile set Removed all textures/Hid terrain cells/lighting/water/changed cliff level Removed all units/doodads Changed pathing Removed all points/regions Lowered map height/changed map bounds/camera
http://i.imgur.com/DytxUGc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MVKZZMY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zRVcD7T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/f0YjfvL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Yfu7PrM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/x1ZKUUq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XzFbdSL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4ddTZR7.jpg
As far as I can tell, the placement shifts, in relation to terrain changes, and seems to be generating very very slightly different each play, meaning the exact location might be some kind of data or trigger, the problem is there is no region or points pointing to those locations...
0
@fishy77: Go
There is no unit, actor, or doodad in those locations, nothing exists at all, no regions, no points, no creation or move triggers, no doodads in the editor, none in-game.
The invisible unit I have setup there is a temporary fix, by creating a small 3 sight radius at the point for players who walk there they always have vision of the spot and therefore no longer see the icon, but it still looks kind of bad....
Edit: heres some more before & after screenshots of the area, the only changes I think I made to that area are moving regions/points/locations around, and adjusting the terrain/pathing, I didn't add any new doodads, so for another icon to come up it has to be related to terrain most likely?
Either that or moving one of the initial problem doodads or units created another perma icon... no idea...
Old: http://i.imgur.com/BUmIW96.jpg
New (greymask): http://i.imgur.com/aDoqEkn.jpg
New (vision): http://i.imgur.com/zpuMl7u.jpg
0
I'm not in any major hurry to get this fixed, but just figured I'd mention I'm still looking for a permanent fix for this (currently using the invisible unit @ location method).
I tried removing all doodads and units within a 30-50 coordinate radius and I've adjusted quite a few settings, and even completely changed the terrain in a few areas where the icons up recently and there's been no changes to those icons, so still no idea what they are or could be.
I was planning a terrain overhaul eventually, and if it's not something data related it might be related to hidden terrain cells, lighting, map height or cliff level or something, as there are a few areas on my map which I feel the terrain is a bit "broken", though I've tried smoothing, uniforming, and changing terrain otherwise in the areas with the icons so no idea if that will fix remaking the entire terrain.
Edit: actually it seems ANOTHER one has appeared recently, slightly above where the others used to be.... I think I'll go over some of my backups and try to figure out what change it started appearing after to try and determine the cause.
0
Make it happen in real life?
Go the apocalypse route and surround it with red sand dunes, and desert, or go the modern route and build the rest of a properly functioning city around it as if something just happened in the middle of a normal day city to cause that....
Turn it into an apocalyptic underwater treasure searching map, where you dive into submerged buildings buried in a desert looking for hidden treasures, ooo~
Cloverfield?
0
An invisible unit with 0.1 mini map radius and 3 sight range (probably 1-2 if I centered it perfectly), keeps the icon from appearing, so for now I just have it create the inviso unit centered on the region over the icon area for a player when they enter that region, thanks for the help guys.
It would be awesome if someone could figure out what the underlying cause is though, it has to be some weird unit or something...
0
I'm not sure what the aim of that would be? Using an invisible unit with low sight would probably work if it was just a matter of giving vision, the problem is the icons never disappear unless each player permanently has something there, I already have it so all the beacons/resources on my map give vision of for 0.1 seconds to they appear in grey mask for all players.
Though I wouldn't want those areas to be grey mask because it would just make the icon visible for all players from the start.
The invisible unit method should probably work as a temporary fix, still just curious of what the cause is...
0
@SoulFilcher: Go
I just created a trigger that removes effects, doodads, units, animations, kills particles, etc... in a test region where it is, it killed all the nearby tree doodads but icon is still there, I've tried even selecting down to the 4 terrain lighting layers, I even removed all my fish and birds....
The icons go away when you have vision, and they don't show up at all in black mask, the only time it appears is in grey mask, you can be standing next to it if it's on a higher cliff level and it won't disappear because you don't have sight of it as well, there's one spot that is on a cliff.