What's the status here? Somebody give me information so I don't have to read 19 pages of posts. Did you, or did you not, figure out and agree on a map to publish? And if so, what is keeping us? I am willing to host the US motw if you guys have not found somebody yet.
edit- nevermind, I see you got sixen for NA.
There were three polls in favour of Battle Planets, after that several people wanted to take Mafia instead. Also, nobody changes the poll to EU publisher and everybody is waiting for advertisements that nobody is making.
1) first week's map was voted battle planets on 3 polls, but mods and premiums argued on behalf of mafia (since it's already popular and will help the project get a huge initial popularity boost) and there were also multiple votes for "we're rushing this" and "no for battle planets" which when added up effectively said no for battle planets, but it was also a multi vote so it's confusing at this point
Why not just make a final poll if mafia or battle planets should be the first map (after everything with publishers etc. is settled). If the decision doesn't come from polls anyway, then meh, why did you make them? To create the illusion of actual participation?
Just a reminder: Taking a map against the will of a lot of people might cost you the few supporters you have.
are you the only person who can post a good argument against us? thank you! i mean come on damnit, say more than "i'm angry" people!
Actually most people bring arguments, they just put it in one short sentence which makes it seem like "I'm angry!"
For example in my last post I merely phrased out what I believe to be Lonami's argument except for the last sentence.
If I understood Lonami correctly, I think the point he tried to make was that we either think that now unpopular maps like battle planets can stay on top once they are there (through boosting, starting games with AIs), then there is no need for an already popular map. Or those maps cannot stay popular, then there is no point in this project and it would be a waste of time.
However, there might be too few people to boost the motw on top of the popularity list on ourselves.
Sadly, a lot of people only play (or rather keep playing) because of the point/reward system or at least they care for it and get really upset when they lose their points. Mafia is an awesome game but it is also full of trolls and afkers that want to farm points.
Regarding that, what might people think of motw when Mafia is the first map? (I just point out negative sides, because the advantages should be obvious)
- They just want to play Mafia and suddenly, there is a dummy map redirecting them to another map. This means more work for the same game and at the beginning, longer waiting times till a game is full. If I was a person that just wanted to play a round of mafia or even any popular map I'd be pretty pissed to enter a dummy game (and depending on the time of the day even waiting in the lobby for quite some time). Even if it's in the description, most people won't read it after they played more than one or two games.
- They just see motw as a popular map and don't know anything about the project but want to try it. Then they see that Mafia is being used. This might make the impression of a stolen map or at least it wouldn't be anything new ("mafia? i already know that, meh").
- They get to motw through advertising for example in a forum. Those people also might just think "meh, mafia, i already know that" if they come specifically to get to know new maps that didn't make it through the popularity system before. They will know that another map will be uploaded in a week and wait for that till they play it again.
I'll try to make clear what problem I see with taking an already popular map although I do think that it can boost the popularity of motw (I just think you overestimate the effect):
- When Mafia is taken down (aka a dummy map is put up) the players won't have their points, hats etc. and if they play the motw mafia, they will lose everything they gained there after a week. A lot of people keep playing mafia because they want to unlock the next model etc. Those people might just decide to not play Mafia at all during that time.
- Mafia will tell players to go to the motw. But when motw isn't popular yet, a lot of people probably won't look up the map just to play Mafia. They will rather go play another already popular map.
- During this week the original map will be played less, which actually hurts Mafia.
-Having Rev as the uploader for NA would work for the first point I made, but as xSun already said, it couldn't work for EU.
So I think it would be okay to use a popular map, but it probably won't boost the project as much as you think (you won't get the people that don't really care one way or the other).
I would prefer advertising in those popular maps, for example DR could tell people to play the motw in his loading screen (as he can't add something to the map itself anymore), other mappers could do the same or mention motw in their maps. That way, motw could get a boost from those popular maps, while it has the appeal of bringing something new every week that people can try instead of having to go there or even search for it when they just wanted to play Mafia.
Another thing we noticed:
When a player leaves, their planet doesn't disappear anymore which is confusing and fairly annoying. Would be great if you changed that :)
It's been ages since I last saw the tutorial so I just went through it with AIs :D
I think a short cinematic + text would be the best option (+ a chance to try it out afterwards). It can explain everything relatively fast and seeing what you are supposed to do is oftentimes easier to understand than when you have to read it without seeing it and then practically being on your own.
I drew beautiful paint pictures to visualize how I could imagine part of the tutorial xD
Additionally, it would be useful to explain the difference between Orbital War and Super Smash Planets before you actually chose one mode and that Sol is "easier" than the other maps / a beginner map. Maybe it would be best to include these explanations in the voting process, but I'm not sure (because you only have 10 seconds to vote and once you played a few times you don't need this info anymore).
The stage where you try it out could basically be the current second stage, where you try to knock out your opponents.
As reference to what TacoManStan said: Battle Planets is rather a minigame, you learn a lot of it simply by playing it. The tutorial shouldn't be too long and mostly show you how to move and how to use your weapons.
The host should be able to force it and if most players are new it should be played by default. That's another reason to make only a short tutorial: If one players knows what to do but has to sit through the tutorial or wait for the others to finish it he might just quit.
I think it can succeed (Battle Planets). I have a lot of fun playing it (for example with xSun and qraze) and it is a map that we can play again and again. We even had a little tournament with quite some people. When the mafia channel wasn't dead there were constantly people asking to play it again. So I think it can be popular, it just needs every boost it can get. And there isn't a better contender for motw at the moment.
And yes, I also tried or at the very least looked at the threads for the other maps.
You know why I said that? Because it's not up to me to decide which maps are good and which aren't... and it isn't up to you either.
There were two polls where the majority clearly considered battle planets as a good enough map. If the majority chose another map, it should have been that. But how can you seriously say battle planets would be a bad map if most people here think otherwise? If it would be full of bugs it would be a different story, but it's just your dislike of the map.
I thought this was a good project and I wanted to support it as well as getting other people to support it, but I now see that it's hypocritical. You don't want to help mapmakers to get their map popular enough to get recognised, you want to brag about whatever you can "accomplish" with mapping or sth like that, in the best case with your own map. You already lost momentum, with things like that you will just kill this project no matter what map you choose in the end. Have fun trying nonetheless.
Another revote? Really???
It seems like exactly what I imagined is happening... making new polls until something other than battle planets comes out on top...
This is seriously ridiculous now.
I would have been okay with almost every other map as well... but not in this way.
What sense would it make to put a map like mafia into the project? It's already popular and nobody would play another version of it that "randomly" comes up. And if it is played it would rather hurt the original map than benefit it, because the original map would lose popularity during that time. I would claim that motw will get much more recognition if it uses maps that aren't popular yet than if it uses maps like mafia or income wars that already are popular, maybe bookmarked etc.
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There were three polls in favour of Battle Planets, after that several people wanted to take Mafia instead. Also, nobody changes the poll to EU publisher and everybody is waiting for advertisements that nobody is making.
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This project has lost its momentum. Are you really that surprised?
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Can't wait to see the new tutorial :)
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Why not just make a final poll if mafia or battle planets should be the first map (after everything with publishers etc. is settled). If the decision doesn't come from polls anyway, then meh, why did you make them? To create the illusion of actual participation?
Just a reminder: Taking a map against the will of a lot of people might cost you the few supporters you have.
0
Actually most people bring arguments, they just put it in one short sentence which makes it seem like "I'm angry!" For example in my last post I merely phrased out what I believe to be Lonami's argument except for the last sentence.
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If I understood Lonami correctly, I think the point he tried to make was that we either think that now unpopular maps like battle planets can stay on top once they are there (through boosting, starting games with AIs), then there is no need for an already popular map. Or those maps cannot stay popular, then there is no point in this project and it would be a waste of time.
However, there might be too few people to boost the motw on top of the popularity list on ourselves.
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@TacoManStan: Go
Sadly, a lot of people only play (or rather keep playing) because of the point/reward system or at least they care for it and get really upset when they lose their points. Mafia is an awesome game but it is also full of trolls and afkers that want to farm points.
Regarding that, what might people think of motw when Mafia is the first map? (I just point out negative sides, because the advantages should be obvious)
- They just want to play Mafia and suddenly, there is a dummy map redirecting them to another map. This means more work for the same game and at the beginning, longer waiting times till a game is full. If I was a person that just wanted to play a round of mafia or even any popular map I'd be pretty pissed to enter a dummy game (and depending on the time of the day even waiting in the lobby for quite some time). Even if it's in the description, most people won't read it after they played more than one or two games.
- They just see motw as a popular map and don't know anything about the project but want to try it. Then they see that Mafia is being used. This might make the impression of a stolen map or at least it wouldn't be anything new ("mafia? i already know that, meh").
- They get to motw through advertising for example in a forum. Those people also might just think "meh, mafia, i already know that" if they come specifically to get to know new maps that didn't make it through the popularity system before. They will know that another map will be uploaded in a week and wait for that till they play it again.
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Aww... how can you only like one part of my personality? :(
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I'll try to make clear what problem I see with taking an already popular map although I do think that it can boost the popularity of motw (I just think you overestimate the effect):
- When Mafia is taken down (aka a dummy map is put up) the players won't have their points, hats etc. and if they play the motw mafia, they will lose everything they gained there after a week. A lot of people keep playing mafia because they want to unlock the next model etc. Those people might just decide to not play Mafia at all during that time.
- Mafia will tell players to go to the motw. But when motw isn't popular yet, a lot of people probably won't look up the map just to play Mafia. They will rather go play another already popular map.
- During this week the original map will be played less, which actually hurts Mafia.
-Having Rev as the uploader for NA would work for the first point I made, but as xSun already said, it couldn't work for EU.
So I think it would be okay to use a popular map, but it probably won't boost the project as much as you think (you won't get the people that don't really care one way or the other).
I would prefer advertising in those popular maps, for example DR could tell people to play the motw in his loading screen (as he can't add something to the map itself anymore), other mappers could do the same or mention motw in their maps. That way, motw could get a boost from those popular maps, while it has the appeal of bringing something new every week that people can try instead of having to go there or even search for it when they just wanted to play Mafia.
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Another thing we noticed: When a player leaves, their planet doesn't disappear anymore which is confusing and fairly annoying. Would be great if you changed that :)
0
It's been ages since I last saw the tutorial so I just went through it with AIs :D
I think a short cinematic + text would be the best option (+ a chance to try it out afterwards). It can explain everything relatively fast and seeing what you are supposed to do is oftentimes easier to understand than when you have to read it without seeing it and then practically being on your own.
I drew beautiful paint pictures to visualize how I could imagine part of the tutorial xD
Additionally, it would be useful to explain the difference between Orbital War and Super Smash Planets before you actually chose one mode and that Sol is "easier" than the other maps / a beginner map. Maybe it would be best to include these explanations in the voting process, but I'm not sure (because you only have 10 seconds to vote and once you played a few times you don't need this info anymore).
The stage where you try it out could basically be the current second stage, where you try to knock out your opponents.
As reference to what TacoManStan said: Battle Planets is rather a minigame, you learn a lot of it simply by playing it. The tutorial shouldn't be too long and mostly show you how to move and how to use your weapons. The host should be able to force it and if most players are new it should be played by default. That's another reason to make only a short tutorial: If one players knows what to do but has to sit through the tutorial or wait for the others to finish it he might just quit.
0
I think it can succeed (Battle Planets). I have a lot of fun playing it (for example with xSun and qraze) and it is a map that we can play again and again. We even had a little tournament with quite some people. When the mafia channel wasn't dead there were constantly people asking to play it again. So I think it can be popular, it just needs every boost it can get. And there isn't a better contender for motw at the moment.
And yes, I also tried or at the very least looked at the threads for the other maps.
0
You know why I said that? Because it's not up to me to decide which maps are good and which aren't... and it isn't up to you either.
There were two polls where the majority clearly considered battle planets as a good enough map. If the majority chose another map, it should have been that. But how can you seriously say battle planets would be a bad map if most people here think otherwise? If it would be full of bugs it would be a different story, but it's just your dislike of the map.
I thought this was a good project and I wanted to support it as well as getting other people to support it, but I now see that it's hypocritical. You don't want to help mapmakers to get their map popular enough to get recognised, you want to brag about whatever you can "accomplish" with mapping or sth like that, in the best case with your own map. You already lost momentum, with things like that you will just kill this project no matter what map you choose in the end. Have fun trying nonetheless.
0
Another revote? Really??? It seems like exactly what I imagined is happening... making new polls until something other than battle planets comes out on top... This is seriously ridiculous now. I would have been okay with almost every other map as well... but not in this way.
0
What sense would it make to put a map like mafia into the project? It's already popular and nobody would play another version of it that "randomly" comes up. And if it is played it would rather hurt the original map than benefit it, because the original map would lose popularity during that time. I would claim that motw will get much more recognition if it uses maps that aren't popular yet than if it uses maps like mafia or income wars that already are popular, maybe bookmarked etc.