There is a difference between not caring about someone's opinion and believing it is wrong. I asked to have people test the map and tell me if there were any problems, not complain about the name of the map as if I cared about its success.
I could write an entire book about why you are wrong in so many ways. First, I sincerely doubt "most players" who were to try the map would expect a clone or something of the same overall quality, because I doubt "most players" have ever played Dungeon Keeper. When I try a game called Lord of the Rings, I do not expect something dedicated to the movie, and when I tried Prisoner Rebellion, I did not expect a variation of Sheep Tag.
You said the idea is already taken - this is incorrect. I already stated my map has little to do with the actual Dungeon Keeper and is not similar to this Hive Keeper in any way. Apparently you are not comprehending this fact for some reason.
Lastly, you are considering yourself and a few others an "entire community" and proof that I lost the war based off the response of one person.
You have constantly made assumptions based upon limited information and, like I said, are parroting. I told you why you are wrong multiple times yet you ignore those points and repeat yourself. If I had the lost the "war", and it is sad that you think this is a "war", then the map would have a different name. As far as I know the map is still called Dungeon Keeper.
This is getting ridiculous. I thoroughly explained why I should not be listening to FuzzyD and why his advice is bad advice, although he seems like a good person. Regardless, all of these responses tell me to listen to him. I also explained I do not care about the popularity or success of the map, yet these responses continue to assume I do. You are all doing little more than parroting.
I have been trying to discover the logic behind all this complaining but I cannot. If I made a map called King of the Rings while someone else made a map called Lord of the Rings, I would not give a flying coconut. Also knowing the person did not care about the popularity or success of their worthless map, and that their map was completely different from my own anyway, I would not give a flying watermelon.
What I believe happened is that you people assumed my map was trying to be like this Hive Keeper, but now that you know it is not, you are trying to defend your views with, "You should do what we say because we are the majority" and, "Your map is doomed if you do not change your mind."
Yes, some people may come to this thread expecting something that is not here, and this is extremely common and constantly happens all over the Internet. I am not going to spend hours changing the name of my map and its characters and descriptions for something that takes maybe 10 seconds to realize. I have been looking and just found that both edit buttons are different, so putting (NOT HIVE KEEPER) is all I will do.
I have an idea. If you are all still going to be upset over this, how about complain and demand someone change their ways when they pour you a glass of orange, and you expect it to be juice only to discover it is soda?
I'm not taking sides here.. But I thought I'd share my experience with you. There was a point in time where I wasn't very open minded to other peoples advice/opinions/criticism, however it may be interpreted.. Always standing staunch that I was correct. But I learned something and hopefully you can learn from the lesson Iearned as well.
Someone once told me this:
When one person argues there is a flaw in your logic. There is a chance they they are just being hypocritical or whatever.
When two independant parties argue there is a flaw in your logic. There is a chance both of them might be wrong.
When multiple independant parties voice out a flaw in your logic, Chances are high that there is a flaw in your logic. So keep an open mind and try to understand why others justify it as a problem.
Instead of getting all defensive. I suggest you try to pin point the main reasons why people voice out against your idea and consider their validities. If you still feel you are right, there is nothing any of us can do. From my view as a third party, most of the posts here are advice on how you could improve your map to boost it's chances of success.
(When I say independant parties, I mean people that do not no each other personally.)
I am in no way attacking you. I'm just trying to offer some friendly advice. I grew up in an environment with quite a lot of hypercritical people always trying to find fault with me, which was the reason why I initially always fought to defend my ideas despite how flawed my logic sometimes was. People can throw criticism. As what I said in the above clause. If its one person, you might still be right. But if its a few people, its time to take a step back and rethink the logic.
This might not make sense to you now, but keep it in mind. It might make sense one day in the future.
The people on these forums are not independent. This is a community of gamers, map makers, teams, and testers, so it is clear to see how there would be significant biases. Being independent has little to do with personally knowing someone so I do not know where you got that definition.
If an atheist went into a church and stated that God was not real, obviously the overwhelming majority in the church would clearly disagree with him. Do you realize how illogical it would be for the atheist to think, "I should seriously consider that I am wrong because I cannot find anyone here to agree with me" or, "The overwhelming majority disagrees with me so I am probably wrong."
Your thinking is a common misconception that is rampant throughout the media and in society. Very often, for example, conservative and liberal stations will ask their viewers to go to a website and respond to a poll, and then these stations use the poll results to make a point. Obviously the majority of viewers on a liberal station are going to be liberals, so obviously the poll results are going to be skewed.
Lastly, if you want to learn something valuable, then learn this: people are more likely to voice their opinion on a topic when they feel strongly about the topic, while those who are not bothered or do not care are more likely to do nothing. For example, say you are on some forums and one thread reads, "Food is Good." While hundreds or thousands of viewers may agree, it is unlikely that a significant portion of them would go to the thread and support the statement, perhaps because the statement does not bother them or because they are not interested.
It is quite silly for you to suggest that what I have done is bizarre and you make a very fallacious statement. First, no, not every person who tries my map is going to expect a literal Dungeon Keeper because I sincerely doubt that every person has actually played Dungeon Keeper.
Excluding that obvious fact, your argument fails anyway because it is simply not true. For example, it is probable that a lot of people who first heard of Prisoner Rebellion would have expected something completely different than a variation of Sheep Tag, but obviously the map name remains unchanged anyway ... because the name is irrelevant and does not matter.
The map having the same name of the actual game is also irrelevant. Since the actual game is nothing like the 1999 Dungeon Keeper, there would be no copyright violation except perhaps from a trademark, but since Bullfrog no longer exists then the trademark would have already expired.
Anyway, if you people are going to revert to a trademark argument while countless Lord of the Rings and Starship Troopers maps are floating around then there is nothing left to discuss.
Abion and ZealNaga are being hypocritical - they admit to never playing the map but automatically assume it is trying to be like this anticipated map called Hive Keeper. So, let me explain the situation for the people who like to make rude assumptions based upon limited information.
I had some free time while waiting for the next semester to begin so I decided to experiment with the Galaxy Editor. I thought of the name Dungeon Keeper and learned there was a game from 1999 of the same name. I read up on the game and realized making a SC2 map like that would take way more time than I had, so I made a sort of arena-survival map with some of Dungeon Keeper's general themes and descriptions.
I came here to have people test the map so that I could learn more about the Galaxy Editor, specifically how people balance PvP maps, because I was thinking about making a better and more original map in the future (I do not care whether or not this map is popular).
That is illogical thinking. By that, Company of Heroes should be renamed because people may confuse it with City of Heroes, Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Transformers and Transmorphers, Snakes on a Plane and Snakes on a Train ... etc ...
DUNGEON WARS is now available on U.S. SERVERS. To find it on Battle.net, players must currently scroll down the "join game" list about one dozen times.
An INFORMATIONAL VIDEO can always be found at the following link:
Take control of your mighty Keeper that may level and upgrade, utilizing his powerful abilities.
Construct unique buildings and defenses to expand your dungeon and protect your Keeper.
Summon unique and powerful minions, gather an army, and wage war against your enemies.
Collect and strengthen your Keeper with several powerups.
Improve and upgrade your dungeon and minions.
General Theme and Overview:
Each player has a Dungeon Keeper, their primary character, and if it is destroyed they lose the game. Keepers have a number of abilities, gain experience, and may upgrade. The primary objective is to destroy all other Keepers while ensuring your own survives.
To help defend their Keeper, players may construct defenses and other buildings to cast spells, summon minions and upgrade. This is important, because the actual environment is extremely hostile to all players such that their Keepers are always in danger. Several types of enemies constantly attack and are rampant throughout the map.
Players earn experience, minerals, and powerups for their Keeper by killing enemies. However, players earn substantially more of these resources by leaving the safety of their bases and destroying other player's structures, units, and "special" units within the gameworld.
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@zeldarules28: Go
I added some screenshots with descriptions.
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@Abion47: Go
There is a difference between not caring about someone's opinion and believing it is wrong. I asked to have people test the map and tell me if there were any problems, not complain about the name of the map as if I cared about its success.
@ZealNaga: Go
I could write an entire book about why you are wrong in so many ways. First, I sincerely doubt "most players" who were to try the map would expect a clone or something of the same overall quality, because I doubt "most players" have ever played Dungeon Keeper. When I try a game called Lord of the Rings, I do not expect something dedicated to the movie, and when I tried Prisoner Rebellion, I did not expect a variation of Sheep Tag.
You said the idea is already taken - this is incorrect. I already stated my map has little to do with the actual Dungeon Keeper and is not similar to this Hive Keeper in any way. Apparently you are not comprehending this fact for some reason.
Lastly, you are considering yourself and a few others an "entire community" and proof that I lost the war based off the response of one person.
You have constantly made assumptions based upon limited information and, like I said, are parroting. I told you why you are wrong multiple times yet you ignore those points and repeat yourself. If I had the lost the "war", and it is sad that you think this is a "war", then the map would have a different name. As far as I know the map is still called Dungeon Keeper.
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@ZealNaga: Go
@tigerija: Go
@Abion47: Go
This is getting ridiculous. I thoroughly explained why I should not be listening to FuzzyD and why his advice is bad advice, although he seems like a good person. Regardless, all of these responses tell me to listen to him. I also explained I do not care about the popularity or success of the map, yet these responses continue to assume I do. You are all doing little more than parroting.
I have been trying to discover the logic behind all this complaining but I cannot. If I made a map called King of the Rings while someone else made a map called Lord of the Rings, I would not give a flying coconut. Also knowing the person did not care about the popularity or success of their worthless map, and that their map was completely different from my own anyway, I would not give a flying watermelon.
What I believe happened is that you people assumed my map was trying to be like this Hive Keeper, but now that you know it is not, you are trying to defend your views with, "You should do what we say because we are the majority" and, "Your map is doomed if you do not change your mind."
Yes, some people may come to this thread expecting something that is not here, and this is extremely common and constantly happens all over the Internet. I am not going to spend hours changing the name of my map and its characters and descriptions for something that takes maybe 10 seconds to realize. I have been looking and just found that both edit buttons are different, so putting (NOT HIVE KEEPER) is all I will do.
I have an idea. If you are all still going to be upset over this, how about complain and demand someone change their ways when they pour you a glass of orange, and you expect it to be juice only to discover it is soda?
0
The people on these forums are not independent. This is a community of gamers, map makers, teams, and testers, so it is clear to see how there would be significant biases. Being independent has little to do with personally knowing someone so I do not know where you got that definition.
If an atheist went into a church and stated that God was not real, obviously the overwhelming majority in the church would clearly disagree with him. Do you realize how illogical it would be for the atheist to think, "I should seriously consider that I am wrong because I cannot find anyone here to agree with me" or, "The overwhelming majority disagrees with me so I am probably wrong."
Your thinking is a common misconception that is rampant throughout the media and in society. Very often, for example, conservative and liberal stations will ask their viewers to go to a website and respond to a poll, and then these stations use the poll results to make a point. Obviously the majority of viewers on a liberal station are going to be liberals, so obviously the poll results are going to be skewed.
Lastly, if you want to learn something valuable, then learn this: people are more likely to voice their opinion on a topic when they feel strongly about the topic, while those who are not bothered or do not care are more likely to do nothing. For example, say you are on some forums and one thread reads, "Food is Good." While hundreds or thousands of viewers may agree, it is unlikely that a significant portion of them would go to the thread and support the statement, perhaps because the statement does not bother them or because they are not interested.
0
I was like, "Hey I'm starting to finish this map ... let me make a post so people can critique it and tell me how to best balance such things."
Then this happens. Terrible.
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@Fullachain: Go
It is quite silly for you to suggest that what I have done is bizarre and you make a very fallacious statement. First, no, not every person who tries my map is going to expect a literal Dungeon Keeper because I sincerely doubt that every person has actually played Dungeon Keeper.
Excluding that obvious fact, your argument fails anyway because it is simply not true. For example, it is probable that a lot of people who first heard of Prisoner Rebellion would have expected something completely different than a variation of Sheep Tag, but obviously the map name remains unchanged anyway ... because the name is irrelevant and does not matter.
The map having the same name of the actual game is also irrelevant. Since the actual game is nothing like the 1999 Dungeon Keeper, there would be no copyright violation except perhaps from a trademark, but since Bullfrog no longer exists then the trademark would have already expired.
Anyway, if you people are going to revert to a trademark argument while countless Lord of the Rings and Starship Troopers maps are floating around then there is nothing left to discuss.
0
Abion and ZealNaga are being hypocritical - they admit to never playing the map but automatically assume it is trying to be like this anticipated map called Hive Keeper. So, let me explain the situation for the people who like to make rude assumptions based upon limited information.
I had some free time while waiting for the next semester to begin so I decided to experiment with the Galaxy Editor. I thought of the name Dungeon Keeper and learned there was a game from 1999 of the same name. I read up on the game and realized making a SC2 map like that would take way more time than I had, so I made a sort of arena-survival map with some of Dungeon Keeper's general themes and descriptions.
I came here to have people test the map so that I could learn more about the Galaxy Editor, specifically how people balance PvP maps, because I was thinking about making a better and more original map in the future (I do not care whether or not this map is popular).
I do not believe I am being unreasonable.
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@michaelknives: Go
U.S.
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I would never spend months creating one map ... maybe when I get the free time.
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@Abion47: Go
That is illogical thinking. By that, Company of Heroes should be renamed because people may confuse it with City of Heroes, Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Transformers and Transmorphers, Snakes on a Plane and Snakes on a Train ... etc ...
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That map is called Hive Keeper.
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DUNGEON WARS is now available on U.S. SERVERS. To find it on Battle.net, players must currently scroll down the "join game" list about one dozen times.
An INFORMATIONAL VIDEO can always be found at the following link:
General Theme and Overview: