I agree with the above. Hence I think that SCII doesn't have correct do-dads etc. to make such a game fun to play. You could try zergsims or something but that just won't cut it I think.
With WCIII the skins etc. allowed you to make a cute farm with mills, pigs, farmers, farmer ladies, kids etc. SCII just doesn't have that kind of things I think.
For some reason I feel like a kid/low IQ person that actually enjoyed the storyline so far. It might be because I only read the summaries of the storyline up to BW (haven't played BW and befor, or read any novels). I liked the love story between Kerrigan and Raynor. I felt happy for him that our sad protagonist got something to be happy about. It also showed some true colors of our dear Raynor "Ho's before Bro's". Because of this love story I think them teaming up against mengks was pretty cool aswell, despite all the things you could sum up against it.
Though I still hope for some hardcore fantasy novel ending like we are used from, for example Marcus Heitz or Raymond Feist. Great characters always die in those kind of fantasy stories.
No, I fully agree with you here. I haven't played enough BW to say anything meaningful about it, but from what I've seen part of the reason it was so succesful was because of a better balance of micro vs macro. That balance, I think, is one of the core issues StarCraft 2 suffers from.
I'm sure you've seen that picture before of the yin-yang symbol with the white side being labelled 'macro' and the black 'micro' (edit: this one). While this 50/50 ratio would be ideal, you're completely right in that in SC2 it is more of a 80/20 or perhaps even 90/10 ratio rather than 50/50. Training workers, building expansions and building unit-producing buildings is the vast majority of the game and simply perfecting this - relatively boring playstyle - can get you up to the highest level of play. It is only there that real micro starts mattering and even then it only really does so in a few cases; there really isn't a lot beyond baneling micro/marine splits and blink stalker micro.
I think their is more than 10-20% micro in SCII. I mean if you are an ultra good zerg you can actually play with tons of smaller groups of units. Infestors, swarmhosts, zeglings, your main army. Same goes for Terran, doing drops simultaneous while attacking with your main. For protoss there is not that much micro I must agree in the late game.
But like you said. I havent played BW to say something useful about the difference between the two.
I was hoping to call upon the experience of sc2mapsters to gain some insight into an important component of launching a map: getting people to play it.
What I'm referring to specifically is the cycle by which a map that gets played has exposure through arcade search rankings and spotlight leading to more people playing it and so on and so forth. Conversely, how does one expect people to start playing a game they've never heard of before?
With a smaller map, this isn't so much an issue: someone can just invite a couple of their friends and enjoy a few games of the map in question. But what about a team-based game that essentially requires 7v7 gameplay for proper balance? Or is that simply the price to pay for the ambition of such a large map?
I'd love to hear anyone's perspective on this.
Getting people to play your game once is one thing. I think by adding something like a stat tracker what ever people will keep coming back. Something like what marine arena is doing with the leveling up etc.
Personally, I like arcade maps which cost an average of around 30 min to finish.
I think the final mission will be cool, but cliched like the rest. Fun but bad writing :P
I think we will see sentries get a major overhaul, I think the mothership might get an overhaul as well.
Infestors will probably loose fungal growth, and perhaps given one that slows enemies by 50%
I think we will see Burrowed Terran units that move, like a mechanical bunker worm.
I think Zerg will get scourge back, or some kind of Baneling Mutation that allows them to fly
Honestly i dunno what to think. I Just hope after Sc2 is over they start on Warcraft 4. WoW has a shit storyline, I want to see the 4th warcraft war, or a total remake of the first and second wars.
Wow raped the story line of WC, true story.
However I would be so in a remake of sc 1 and 2. And while they are at it the might actually throw in 3 with a new engine aswell. Or atleast upgraded version. I never played wc 1 and 2 because they look so ugly and when those games were a hit, we didnt have good computers at home
Please ok that is more easy to understand what you need to do but... SC2 mechanics are so poorly skill-based, also because battles are so fast that your army is raped in less of a second... Let me link it again...
Little Artanis grows :3
Cool video, quite fun to see how BW is different to SCII. I can understand the reasoning to why the author of that video finds SCII less good for esports as opposed to BW. However I think what blizzard wanted to do is to make a game with more "realistic" moving units. I mean instantly turning 180 degrees like the vultures do in that video, meh... Although I can see why these, somewhat, unresponsive, SCII units make it harder for pro games to rely 100% on their skill. On the other hand, knowing that units might not respond accordingly pro players can adjust their type of play / strategy. It just an other thing they have to take in to account imo.
Anyway, I don't think changing turn rates, turret ai, etc. will be a good thing for SCII. It will be a 100% game changer. Everything is 'balanced' (I do think some things could use some more balancing, but not going in to that here) to the current game mechanics / engine.
I wonder if they will give toss something vs a terran MM Ghost Medivac Viking deathball. Most pro video's TvP I see, Templars just won't cut it anymore. Colossi are instagipped by the vikings and templars sniped.
With nerf to range it could happen, i just learned patrick micro of bw on our remake, lol sounds funny, but not so crucial
I don't think the vikings will ever get that change. It is the only thing Terrans have vs Colossi. If you reduce the range they would be way to vulnerable vs Stalkers and High Templars. It would only take 2 or 3 good storms to reduce the Viking count to zero which will leave the Terran without anything to counter the Colossi.
I am ok with you that this wouldn't change much the Game, i mean... I don't mind too much of the gliding stuff, i am a lot more interested to autotracking turrets like tank (also immo and colossi with some nerfs), other stuffs importants is to fix the oracle by giving it a projectile and remove that STUPID mechanics of the viking that is forced to be immobile for one second between shoots.
What could change for real the Game is add stuffs like onegoal or StarBow that kill the uber hard counters and the deathballs
They gave vikings stupid long range to cover up the immobilty when firing. Vikings would be way to powerful elseway
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@DEFILERRULEZ: Go
Definitely the intro and Kerrigan vs Amon
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I agree with the above. Hence I think that SCII doesn't have correct do-dads etc. to make such a game fun to play. You could try zergsims or something but that just won't cut it I think.
With WCIII the skins etc. allowed you to make a cute farm with mills, pigs, farmers, farmer ladies, kids etc. SCII just doesn't have that kind of things I think.
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hahahaha ye you can add that one to the list lol
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For some reason I feel like a kid/low IQ person that actually enjoyed the storyline so far. It might be because I only read the summaries of the storyline up to BW (haven't played BW and befor, or read any novels). I liked the love story between Kerrigan and Raynor. I felt happy for him that our sad protagonist got something to be happy about. It also showed some true colors of our dear Raynor "Ho's before Bro's". Because of this love story I think them teaming up against mengks was pretty cool aswell, despite all the things you could sum up against it.
Though I still hope for some hardcore fantasy novel ending like we are used from, for example Marcus Heitz or Raymond Feist. Great characters always die in those kind of fantasy stories.
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I guess thats always the case when judging something without a clear list of things that can be judged. Things that can be measured. Fun is a feeling
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I think their is more than 10-20% micro in SCII. I mean if you are an ultra good zerg you can actually play with tons of smaller groups of units. Infestors, swarmhosts, zeglings, your main army. Same goes for Terran, doing drops simultaneous while attacking with your main. For protoss there is not that much micro I must agree in the late game.
But like you said. I havent played BW to say something useful about the difference between the two.
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Getting people to play your game once is one thing. I think by adding something like a stat tracker what ever people will keep coming back. Something like what marine arena is doing with the leveling up etc.
Personally, I like arcade maps which cost an average of around 30 min to finish.
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Wow raped the story line of WC, true story.
However I would be so in a remake of sc 1 and 2. And while they are at it the might actually throw in 3 with a new engine aswell. Or atleast upgraded version. I never played wc 1 and 2 because they look so ugly and when those games were a hit, we didnt have good computers at home
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Cool video, quite fun to see how BW is different to SCII. I can understand the reasoning to why the author of that video finds SCII less good for esports as opposed to BW. However I think what blizzard wanted to do is to make a game with more "realistic" moving units. I mean instantly turning 180 degrees like the vultures do in that video, meh... Although I can see why these, somewhat, unresponsive, SCII units make it harder for pro games to rely 100% on their skill. On the other hand, knowing that units might not respond accordingly pro players can adjust their type of play / strategy. It just an other thing they have to take in to account imo.
Anyway, I don't think changing turn rates, turret ai, etc. will be a good thing for SCII. It will be a 100% game changer. Everything is 'balanced' (I do think some things could use some more balancing, but not going in to that here) to the current game mechanics / engine.
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I wonder if they will give toss something vs a terran MM Ghost Medivac Viking deathball. Most pro video's TvP I see, Templars just won't cut it anymore. Colossi are instagipped by the vikings and templars sniped.
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Updated the list again. I will try to put them in alphabetic order at some point.
Overall results so far. No clear winner. Everyone has other favorite maps :p
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I vote for Hive Keeper, hehehheehe.
Hopefully Bibendus will participate.
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I count every like that is given to games :)
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I don't think the vikings will ever get that change. It is the only thing Terrans have vs Colossi. If you reduce the range they would be way to vulnerable vs Stalkers and High Templars. It would only take 2 or 3 good storms to reduce the Viking count to zero which will leave the Terran without anything to counter the Colossi.
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They gave vikings stupid long range to cover up the immobilty when firing. Vikings would be way to powerful elseway