Anyway, it's no surprise that threads go to hell once soulcarver taintedwisp enter the picture. They both explicitly stated a desire to troll the atheists and to get the thread shut down. Not sure why it was tolerated, but nevertheless they certainly succeeded in getting the thread shut down. Combined with the fact that arguments regressed back down to "no i'm right, you're wrong" repetition, it's no wonder why people had to regress back to posting funny pictures.
The pictures were not funny. Maybe a few, but still. You also went of course posting videos, when you yourself should have put forth your views in the thread for discussion. You wouldn`t open a video link involving Christianity in someway or such, then why should we be expected to open a link of some random dumbass thinking his opinion of "No God" is both funny and of any importance?. Thats not argumentative debating.
Ive called Taintedwisp out in the past, and for the most part his replies were harmless. Even if trolling, it could be ignored(Like early days Hookah). SoulCarveRR obviously could not control his anger, and FDFederation his ego. That caused the thread to shut down. Constantly using memes and pictures to bash another person`s point of view is just stupid. I thought FDFederation was a bigot at the start of the thread, My opinion changed half-way through when he actually was posting some constructive stuff, but I now view him in pretty much the same way as I first did. This guy seriously only communicates via pictures and drawings(Thought we evolved from that;p). The fact that you never called him out on his behavior(As Eviyn did) shows a lack of neutrality from your side(Which does not help either). I can however commend your efforts in that thread, your replies were atleast genuine and worth the effort(Eviyn too).
Sorry but your misunderstanding still does not prove your point(and never will). Bible is the word of God. You can still be mad all day.
Locking this thread, as the innuendos are obvious and you`re not adhering to the forum rules of creating/utilizing a thread for normal and rational discussion (Free of any hate, insults, and bigotry).
Persistence will result in an assured temp-ban.
Cant argue with someone that keeps throwing up pictures for an argument. I see you`re every bit deluded and uneducated about what you think Christianity/Bible is, now and even since the very start of the thread. If you`re such a closed minded book, why bother to participate in the thread?.
Your memes dont offend me as much as it gives me a chuckle @ how you think.
I can alteast say I came out of this thread with sound understanding of the atheist mind and how it works and what their belief systems are. Some validity sure here and there. But, apart from that, I cant honestly add anything more favorable to say.
Sure Benny Hinn is probably a faker and false preacher. There`s a lot of Nutjob `Christians`(People who think they are, yet deluded and warped in mind which their actions demonstrate) out there too. The Bible prophecy regarding fake preachers, corrupt versions of the gospel being preached etc, is once again correct. Coincidence?. Hmm maybe not, all things considered.
Hey you piece of shit.... Don't presume to tell me that the most negative points are the core values. I'm talking about what a childhood of being raised a christian is like in this day and age.
If I met you in real life and you told me as much, I would kick the shit outta you.
Although Gradius can troll that would lead to your provocation , Another remark like that and you`ll be banned from this thread and/or have a suspension against your account. No threats of violence SoulCarverr, implied or otherwise please. Including personal insults and attacks. Forum rules. Applies to and is a reminder to everyone in this thread.
God created the heavens and the earth. He created it specifically for life. He created the animals, the birds, and all living creatures. He endowed them with intelligence. Just like AI cannot write itself magically in a compiler, neither can any form of intelligent sentience poof into existence. Maybe in wonderland, but even there, I dont know.
Thats the truth of the matter. You can go looking as to how it was done, and why things work the way they do, etc. Thats all nice and dandy, but the science all comes from God.
Thats just how it is. One should not consider running off and joining the circus with their jokes on multiverse, parallel universe, eternalverse, eternal time, laws of physics creating themselves etc. Its funny the first time around, but y`know. I used to be on that end of the stick, but thank God for knowledge(Really guys, really).
If someone walked up to you and stated "According to Christianity, we're just a few decades away from being muslims", you'd laugh at them.
I'm laughing at you.
Honestly. Honestly. Honestly, and not to attack you in anyway but I think you dont understand evolution. Atleast not on a deep and intricate level. See, this is kinda like blind faith. My bad for not dropping the hammer on it(yet).
You think humanity has been around for 200k years. I dont even know what to say to that lol.:/
David.M is a prime example of ignorance and arrogance personified. I bet he likes to watch porn and is mad he shouldn`t be doing so. So he acts like a raving lunatic. That, or he clumps all religions into a stereotypical view. Which, because he obviously has never read the Bible.
Bible promotes truth seeking. His whole argument is invalid.
Bible is extremely accurate historically. His whole argument is invalid.
Science proves Bible(cant do this with any other religous book). His whole argument is invalid.
I can say a lot more things in favor and merit of the Bible which is 100% true(Go go, feel free to contradict me), but David.M just dont know much about it(or he just likes his porn and its going to stay that way!).
Lol that golden throne looks sweet and probably does wonders for the ego. Though Catholics aren`t all that bad, according to the wiki: The Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of education and medical services in the world
You`re being judgemental with the pics you are posting.
It truly is amazing how easily you guys get offended that someone challenges the idea of an invisible man in the sky creating everything. Yet you have zero problems:
1) Telling gays they can't marry.
2) Telling people that they can't get an abortion.
3) Telling science teachers to teach ID (goddidit) in schools.
4) Promoting your religion in the public domain at the expense of other religions.
Invisible man in the sky is more bronze age thinking. We dont view it that way.
1. Blargh. I couldn`t care if gays marry, but we dont view it as legitimate. Difference of opinion. In 2050 people will be able to marry Robots and sooner have sex with it. http://www.livescience.com/1951-forecast-sex-marriage-robots-2050.html
2. I dont support abortion. Put the kid up for adoption or something?. In the worst of circumstances , it might be needed. But its done too haphazardly and without a care today, with people just killing off the responsibility from their actions/mistakes.
3. I would have been a God-believer a long time ago if they taught intelligent design at school. Pity you actually have to go digging up real 100% scientific data on it later on in life to actually know it for yourself.
4. We have major religions(Christianity/Judaism, Islam, Hiduism, Buddhism), minor, and the rest contemporary, `new age` etc.
Brief outlines of each should be taught in schools. Christianity is the claim of X,Y , Z based on A , B and C. Islam is so and so and so about this and that. Buddhism is a practice of meditative practices and teachings centered around awareness etc and deriving from the teaching of " ".
Any of the religions with substantial history and knowledge and background to it should be presentable.
Religion forms a very real undeniable history of the world.
Evolution can be taught in school as long as we are not jumping to conclusions on matters, and also filling people in on the many many gaps the `theory` presents. That would be a scientific way of doing it, rather than brushing off our current misguided understanding of evolution as fact/truth.
You do realize that what you've posted are infomercial quotes, right? If you actually checked your quotes, you should notice that they come from traditional religious, new age spirituality, UFO, and conspiracy web sites
Haha no. Thats not the case. Lol. The research is also on-going.
More than 90% of the body's serotonin lies in the gut; as well as about 50% of the body's dopamine:
Yea, also, kinda completely irrelevant.
Although its influence is far-reaching, the gut is not the seat of any conscious thoughts or decision-making.
I've recently stopped replying to you because you have repeatedly failed all thread to answer these questions:
1) Prove that god has to be the uncaused cause.
2) Prove that the universe was created.
3) Just because the bible has some facts in it does not mean everything in there is true, as is the case with books like Harry Potter. How do you bridge the gap and conclude that God is real?
I'll answer whatever you want once you provide actual answers to these questions.
Its because you dont have answers to my questions. You`d just say "Go do your own research" whenever your crazy theories hit a dead center.
1. Has to be?, or IS?. This question has already been dealt with.
2. No dude, the universe was obviously not created. Ignore science, logic and reason too while you are at it. We`re all secretly in wonderland.
3. Everything is true. The bible has proven to be perfectly reliable, in many different cases and especially historically like for: http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/stewart.cfm?id=407
the evidence for the historical accuracy of the Bible continues to build.
I dont see how this relates to a fictional book such as Harry potter. Most religions are like that?, yes probably indeed, but not the Bible. It can stand on its own merit.
Explain to me, if you would, the reason you believe that appendectomy is one of the most common abdominal surgeries despite the appendix being such a small segment of our bowels?
ProzaicMuze can deal with that. You`re use of intelligent design is a bit subjective here. We cant call the appendix useless. Sure we can do without it, and it seems a more pesky organ than others, but this can also be said of other organs too under/during z, x,y conditions.
::::::::::::::::::::: "Since emotional processes can work faster than the mind, it takes a power stronger than the mind to bend perception, override emotional circuitry, and provide us with intuitive feeling instead. It takes the power of the heart."
[b]"The idea that we can think with our hearts is no longer just a metaphor, but is, in fact, a very real phenomenon. We now know this because the combined research of two or three fields is proving that the heart is the major center of intelligence in human beings. Molecular biologists have discovered that the heart is the body's most important endocrine gland. In response to our experience of the world, it produces and releases a major hormone, ANF , which stands for Atriol Neuriatic Factor , that profoundly effects every operation in the limbic structure, or what we refer to as the "emotional brain." This includes the hippocampal area where memory and learning take place, and also the control centers for the entire hormonal system. And neurocardiologist have found that 60 to 65% of the cells of the heart are actually neural cells, not muscle cells as was previously believed."**
the heart affects mental clarity, creativity, emotional balance and personal effectiveness. Our research and that of others indicate that the heart is far more than a simple pump. The heart is, in fact, a highly complex, self-organized information processing center with its own functional "brain" that communicates with and influences the cranial brain via the nervous system, hormonal system and other pathways. These influences profoundly affect brain function and most of the body’s major organs, and ultimately determine the quality of life
-HeartMath www.heartmath.org
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
“...In recent years several heart transplant recipients have reported unexpected side effects including experiencing memories, habits and desires they never had before. With studies showing that these are not isolated cases, 'Transplanting Memories?' meets patients searching to understand what has happened to them. The film follows organ recipients as they make contact with their donor families in an effort to understand their new found lease of life and features scientists who are pioneering research into the intelligence of the heart and the biochemical basis for memory in our cells. Is science's understanding of how memory works quite as cut and dried as once thought?” ( (source: Mindshock: Transplanting Memories? Channel 4 television, UK, 26 June, 2006 at 10pm BST).
Completely independently of such heart transplant experiences, Dr Andrew Armour Ph.D. is a heart specialist who had noticed the presence of neurons in the heart – he noted a sophisticated collection of these and learned that the heart contains a complex nervous system of its own. He soon realised that there is a more intimate connection between the heart and brain than had previously been known or understood. Indeed, the doctor claims that the heart actually sends more information to the brain than the other way around! Dr Armour has written a pamphlet called, Anatomical and Functional Principles. His publisher makes the following comment about this writing:
[i]'Groundbreaking research in the field of neurocardiology has established that the heart is a sensory organ and a sophisticated information encoding and processing center, with an extensive intrinsic nervous system sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "heart brain" .... Armour discusses intriguing data documenting the complex neuronal processing and memory capabilities of the intrinsic cardiac nervous system, indicating that the heart brain can process information and make decisions about its control independent of the central nervous system. By providing an understanding of the elaborate anatomy and physiology of the cardiac nervous system, this monograph contributes to the newly emerging view of the heart as a complex, self-organized system that maintains a continuous two-way dialogue with the brain and the rest of the body.
Professor Paul Pearsall Ph.D. has also made a contribution to the new discussion of the intelligence of the human heart. After interviewing nearly 150 heart and other organ transplant recipients, Pearsall proposed the once staggering concept that cells of living tissue could have the capacity to remember.
Paul Pearsall is one of many researchers who has observed that transplant patients who receive an organ from another person's body may also receive much more , what he calls their "cellular memories." Recipients have reported inheriting everything from the donor's food cravings to knowledge about his murderer, information that in one case led to the killer's arrest. As a result of these and other researchers' findings, Pearsall is now convinced that the heart has its own form of intelligence, that we are only rarely aware of in modern life. In his view, the heart processes information about the body and the outside world through an "info-energetic code", a profuse network of blood vessels and cells that serves not only as our circulatory system but as an energy information gathering and distribution system, much like a complex telephone network. What's more, he believes that the soul, at least in part, is a set of cellular memories that is carried largely by our hearts. Predictably, such views have met with opposition in the medical world. But in his view, the implications of his theories , that the heart "thinks," cells remember, and communication can therefore transcend the boundaries of time and space , are too important for him to dismiss
Along with this, more scientists are regularly joining this exciting new area of research and even Britain's foremost heart transplant doctor, Professor Sir Magdi Yacoub (in the televised channel 4 programme), while being guarded in his comments, nevertheless welcomed the new area of research, although, of course, the professor is typical of a long line of heart specialists who have only seen the human heart as a pumper of blood.
However, the extensive research of Armour and others show that there can now be no going back – we can all now state quite dogmatically that the relationship between the heart and brain has been hugely underestimated and that the heart contains more brain-like capacities than anyone would have thought just a very few years ago. There is an inter-change between heart and brain with the brain actually receiving more information from the heart than vice versa.
This means that the biblical concept that the heart is the seat of one's soul , intellect and character can no longer be taken as a purely poetic/romantic writing idiom.
Bible still is the word of God. Science proves Bible. Science catches up to Bible. Atheism still a belief system with zero evidence and support. In later news, Gradius will continue to dodge my questions and go on to tell us how the growth of toe tails = bad design = cant be a god, That same logic in him talking about the appendix.
The one question about the king sacrificing his daughter to God. While mistranslation is strongly pointed out in the Hebrew, He just as well could have done exactly as the text says so because we dont really have a concise understanding on it. In that case, I should have mentioned the latter which I wanted to, but regret not doing. But your point stands.
For every other part I did not attempt/resort to dodgy excuses wherein the scripture was genuinely misused and taken out of context(aka not looking at the very next line after, or before)
I'll get no reply to it. I've never seen anyone give a reasonable response to anyone who's asked it, and I thoroughly enjoy watching religious debates. It's always dodged.
"Prove your god doesn't require a cause."
Not played the last one yet, but those are my favourite cards.
TheZizz already dealt with that. Its a very herp derp type of question that, I dont know, people expect a ....Wait, just this in, The cake I was planning to bake just baked itself. It created itself!!. Goodluck proving it did not require a cause. Why the cake dun that?, Dunno, How the cake dun that?, Dunno, Why the cake dun that when it did, Dunno, What made the cake dun that?, Dunno. Time to create illogical theories to make the illogical seem plausible. Be right back. Dont believe anything else no matter how obvious it seems, cuz ye never know`.
God is the indescribable, uncreated, self existent, eternal source of all reality and being.<Logically, and obviously?
What makes you think time is eternal?. Can you prove that?. If anything can be eternal, why do the heathen refuse the God concept?(And we add intelligence to that because its self evident). The first cause is beyond time, and beyond entropy/cause and effect. Otherwise the universe could not have been created.
My point was that humanity has existed for the past 100,000 to 250,000 years
False.
"Prove your religion is the right religion."
Apart from already dismantling your theories on multiverse, parallel universes, eternal universes, (pity had not did the Evolution part), and clearly demonstrating tangible evidence for intelligent design while dismissing the notions of randomness and chance(Chaos Gods). Ive already shown the Bible to be Historically accurate, Scientifically accurate and Factually accurate as far as possible. The claims made in the Bible are huge, but the 3 mentioned aspects can back it up. Unlike any other religion, Which Ive even challenged but no atheist made an attempt(The Quran was paltry effort. Where are the Zillion other religions that confound us for choice!?)
"Why doesn't God heal amputees?"
From another source:
Your question seems to merely be a very specific re-articulation of the general argument against God due to the existence of evil. Formally restating your argument:
-An omnipotent God would heal amputees.
-Amputees are not healed.
-Therefore, an omnipotent God does not exist.
You could just as easily replace the major premise with anything else unpleasant: why do people lose limbs in the first place? The ultimate question you’re really asking is Why Does God’s Creation Include Death and Suffering? If you already believe that flaws in the world disprove God, then naming any flaw that God doesn’t fix—or any good deed God doesn’t do—will just reaffirm your perspective.
Answering your question completely requires a few tangential comments:
-Miracles aren’t a grab-bag of goodies for us to enjoy; rather, God uses miracles in particular points of time for very specific purposes. God doesn't need to prove Himself to us (we’re on trial, not Him), nor does He “need” to bless us. When He does bless us, it is entirely out of mercy.
-God has done greater works than restoring limbs. If He created the entire universe out of nothing, spoke all plants and animals into existence, sculpted and breathed life into the first two humans, and raised His Son from death, it is clear that He has the power to heal amputees if and when it is His will.
-If there is no God, why should we care if people have lost limbs? To borrow from C. S. Lewis, in a truly godless world, amputations wouldn’t be “good” or “bad”; they would simply be, a fact of life no different from a tree shedding leaves. Attacking theism on a moral basis undermines the argument.
-You qualify your own question with “[e]xcept the ear that Jesus put it back.” You may as well ask, “If God is all-powerful, why did He never part the Red Sea—except for that one time in Exodus?” And not only is your argument qualified; it is also, essentially, an argument from silence. Even if the Bible doesn’t record the healing of an amputee, that doesn’t mean God never has
Not played the last one yet, but those are my favourite cards.
Your beliefs are proven absurdities, Your reasons for disbelief are subjective and bias, You hardly display an apt for looking at things in the possibility it might be true. Dont need anything else to say.
But you would still try 'save' your child wouldn't you?
Whereas God would just send him/her straight to hell instead of helping a (in your eyes) delusioned person/child back to the 'warmth and loving God'? I mean, wouldn't he even try to save him/her from the grip of satan or whatever?
You know, it makes it sound like you have better moral standards, simply a more loving person than God himself.
He would, He would. Its a trap to assume God is waiting for the slightest opportunity to cast us into a `hell` or torment us. Such an attitude leads to despair and should not be entertained. All it takes is the slightest attitude of repentance and change of heart for a person to save him/herself. I dont think anyone is going to get intentionally screwed at the end of their lives. Every person bears some responsibility for their actions and inner most decisions. We have our conscious that acts as one means of warning , then we have knowledge, and all sorts of persuasive and true forces that can lead us on the right track. Who better to judge that , than God?.
The whispers that tell us God is evil, cruel, and is wanting to kill/destroy and damn us. Where do they come from?
"Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live.Ezekiel 18:23
As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people. I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so they can live. Turn! Turn from your wickedness, O people of Israel! Why should you die?Ezekiel 33:11
I don't want you to die, says the Sovereign LORD. Turn back and live!Ezekiel 18:32
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.1 Timothy 2:4
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.John 3:17
(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.1 Timothy 4:10
For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people..Titus 2:11
Numbers 14:18 (KJV) ‘The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’
Psalm 86:15 (KJV) But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, long suffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Psalm 78:38 Yet he was merciful; he forgave their iniquities and did not destroy them. Time after time he restrained his anger and did not stir up his full wrath.
Psalm 108:4 For great is your love, higher than the heavens; your faithfulness reaches to the skies.
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.1 John 4:8
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.Isaiah 45:22
We`re not talking `Dungeons and Dragons` definition of Sorceress here(Throwing fireballs?)... Occult practices, witchcraft, fortune telling, etc. No different than modern day occult. Not that I believe they have any power in their efforts, but they obviously are deluded in thinking so.
Because we're imperfectly evolved primates who still retain half the useless features of apes (appendix and coccyx, for example) with inside-out, upside down eyes and an entertainment complex inside our sewage system perhaps?
Just a thought.
Coincidentally, how do you reconcile the glaring imperfections in human biology with a creator?
Appendix is not useless. I dont know about the coccyx.
The fact that we can easily survive without it, hardly does much for the argument. We can also live without the Gall bladder, with 1 Kidney, etc. The human body is extremely resilient and has many fail-safes. Continuous wear and tear on the intended design, will lead to damage. The body is not meant to be perfect under every condition but rather optimal under its design specs.
And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.Genesis 1:29
You see, this was meant to be our original diet. Threshold of deviation from this is forgiving despite the amount of man-made junk and other foods we intoxicate our body with. There`s a limit of course.
I think the body is well designed, and we dont give any credit for that. No matter how perfect a design, you`ll always be able to find a flaw. I can argue why we dont have the strength of a silverback(but then this would make flight like a bird nigh impossible and contradictory if it were desired too), or why we dont have biological immortality as some organisms and bacterium do, or why we cant propagate the `evolution` cycle/process to no end without worrying about dread diseases, HIV, etc(aka having inbuilt immunity). Wouldn`t that be better design after all?.
We dont see the purpose of the recognized flaws. The positive is with purpose and reason , but the negative not so?. Our own understanding is still catching up. Again, jumping to conclusions that there is no creator is a poor argument to make.
we don't believe your storybook since it has no evidence nor proof for it's claims.
There`s a difference between being skeptical(Like myself) and downright running around with blinkers(you with this statement).
And what stops god from jumping to this step? What are according to you the true acting forces on our world? If god were the only acting force all this universe seems pretty unnecessary, unless he chose to limit himself one way or another?
Its getting there. The one world government still has to come, and its evident such a thing is just looming. Evil still has to run its full course.
Israel will be besieged, nuclear fall out will occur. Etc. Would be nice if God just jumped right there. But the events in the bible play out exactly as God foretold. Christ coming...etc and now we`re in the time period of being called to repentance and when thats over, the action/fireworks will start.
The acting forces would be our free will, cause and effect, the angelic and demonic activity(I know this sounds stupid, but its not a Hollywood style context), God. I do not know if the system is dynamic or static and mathematically balanced in every way. I also do not know the relation between all the factors, which is more predominate or what sort of balance exists.
If there is a god I'd hope we try to detect his presence scientifically. I believe that humans, given enough knowledge, can understand everything about the universe.I wouldn't just give up. I'd try to figure out how God works, what he is made of, etc.
Stop avoiding my question. Ive asked you, if we were in nothing more than a computer simulation, How would we know this?.
Your understanding of God is very limit and finite with your above statement. Its also illogical.
Nah. You've probably never even met one. You've just inherited the hate that your parents and preachers have taught you. Christiantiy, religion of hate and intolerance. Jesus would be sick with you.
I know this doctor, Very nice guy. Gay, but very nice, intelligent and humble person. Have also had a best friend whom was a lesbian. Have no problem with them.
Point in question, We`re not called to hate and judge the person but more the practice. TaintedWisp goes about it all wrong..
Nevertheless, its not a question of tolerance as I said. God views it as an abomination and commands us not to engage in it. It does not matter what you think, or care, that is the bottom line. Humans can draw lines wherever they please, but not so with God the Holy Creator.
Just like beastiality is seen as a perversion by our standards. Yet a person that practices that, can still be all nice and good and intelligent and whatever.
You might then say, well whatever they do is their own business and should not affect your view and association with them. That is true, but in God`s eyes both that and homosexual relations are still seen as perversion practices by his standards.
The women wanna act like men, and the men wanna act like women... Pretty much, Its like when a white guy wants to act like hes in the hood, He goes to every stereotype and goes to the extreme with them, where it just becomes stupid....
Same deal, The men start to literally think they are Women, and have no problem fighting women, The women wont clean themselves like they should and it gets disgusting.
I have met a few Gays that I can get along with, and those are fine, but they are far rarer then the normal that I have seen, I have known atleast 15 gay people in my life... and only 2 or 3 have been decent people.
Please. Just no. I swear you are counter-productive to Christianity in this thread. You really need to grow up, and until then you should stick to reading the Bible more and leave this thread entirely.
Quote from Gradius12:
I joined this forum because all the members here seem to be intelligent people who demonstrate an understanding of a powerful tool. And then I step into this thread and it's like looking into a whole other world: a cesspool of unbridled ignorancestupidity.
I guess that's what religion is good for.
This is put better than I could ever put it.
I literally cannot continue to read this thread without feeling sick from anger and sadness. I won't continue in this thread for the sake of my own sanity.
Drama queen;p. For what its worth though, please disregard Taintedwisp from this discussion. Just as most of us disregard Hookah from this discussion(aka the atheist that never/rarely has anything worthwhile or knowledgeable to add)
Well, let's say that you have a son/daughter (or maybe you already have I don't know) and (s)he one day comes home and says (s)he doesn't believe in God anymore, what would you do then? If (s)he's strongly disagreeing with you about that God exists (basically becomming an atheist).
Would you throw her/him out of your house and let your neighboor torture her and then just forget about her/him? Would you try to save your child by trying to discuss the matter?
In short, what actions would you take if your child became an atheist (or something similar that defies God)?
I would not throw him or her out. At that age, they are not doing anything wrong, they just dont know any better. You lead by example. Patience, teaching where you can(Not forcing, but you should be seen as a guide and refuge of love and advice), and exemplifying the qualities of Christ. How often did the apostles show doubt and disbelief?(many many many times..) Peter(being a coward at the time, and I use that word lightly) even disowned/denied Jesus at one point. Jesus did not kick any of them out.
Remember this, You cant save anyone. None of us can. Only God can do that. Only God can tug at the heart and only they can decide on the decision. Its thus more effective to pray for him/her and to simply trust in God. God is fair and just in everything.
@Gradius12: GoNot only is god responsible for miscarriages, but every single genetic defect that anyone has ever had.
We dont know why things like that happen. The reasons behind it etc. Somehow I dont think it has anything to do with God having random fun in an evil manner. Why would God do that?. No need to jump to big conclusions knowing your pint sized brain cant understand it.
@The picture
Says who?. How do you know God did not Judge America for everything they have done?. Does the bible say he will judge only on Gay marriage and abortion?. No. Once again, your picture is completely wrong.
Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority of people will believe you
Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure - George Carlin
Then I have to ask you another question; If you break one of the 10 commandments, are you damned to burn in hell?
If it was by accident?, Continually sinning on purpose?. Be specific. I would not condemn you, and neither would God. As long as you make an effort to repent and stop sinning(aka stop being evil), an effort to not judge others(so you wont be judged harshly), and to be merciful(so you will receive mercy), You`re good to go. No one is perfect and all have sinned(except Christ), Realizing the error and stopping is good.
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They both received a temp ban. Mozared had given a final warning.
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The pictures were not funny. Maybe a few, but still. You also went of course posting videos, when you yourself should have put forth your views in the thread for discussion. You wouldn`t open a video link involving Christianity in someway or such, then why should we be expected to open a link of some random dumbass thinking his opinion of "No God" is both funny and of any importance?. Thats not argumentative debating.
Ive called Taintedwisp out in the past, and for the most part his replies were harmless. Even if trolling, it could be ignored(Like early days Hookah). SoulCarveRR obviously could not control his anger, and FDFederation his ego. That caused the thread to shut down. Constantly using memes and pictures to bash another person`s point of view is just stupid. I thought FDFederation was a bigot at the start of the thread, My opinion changed half-way through when he actually was posting some constructive stuff, but I now view him in pretty much the same way as I first did. This guy seriously only communicates via pictures and drawings(Thought we evolved from that;p). The fact that you never called him out on his behavior(As Eviyn did) shows a lack of neutrality from your side(Which does not help either). I can however commend your efforts in that thread, your replies were atleast genuine and worth the effort(Eviyn too).
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@FDFederation: Go
http://www.creationtoday.org/why-does-the-bible-mention-unicorns/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v2/n1/unicorns-in-bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn#Biblical
Sorry but your misunderstanding still does not prove your point(and never will). Bible is the word of God. You can still be mad all day.
Locking this thread, as the innuendos are obvious and you`re not adhering to the forum rules of creating/utilizing a thread for normal and rational discussion (Free of any hate, insults, and bigotry).
Persistence will result in an assured temp-ban.
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@FDFederation: Go
Cant argue with someone that keeps throwing up pictures for an argument. I see you`re every bit deluded and uneducated about what you think Christianity/Bible is, now and even since the very start of the thread. If you`re such a closed minded book, why bother to participate in the thread?.
Your memes dont offend me as much as it gives me a chuckle @ how you think.
I can alteast say I came out of this thread with sound understanding of the atheist mind and how it works and what their belief systems are. Some validity sure here and there. But, apart from that, I cant honestly add anything more favorable to say.
@Hookah604: Go
Sure Benny Hinn is probably a faker and false preacher. There`s a lot of Nutjob `Christians`(People who think they are, yet deluded and warped in mind which their actions demonstrate) out there too. The Bible prophecy regarding fake preachers, corrupt versions of the gospel being preached etc, is once again correct. Coincidence?. Hmm maybe not, all things considered.
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Although Gradius can troll that would lead to your provocation , Another remark like that and you`ll be banned from this thread and/or have a suspension against your account. No threats of violence SoulCarverr, implied or otherwise please. Including personal insults and attacks. Forum rules. Applies to and is a reminder to everyone in this thread.
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@Eiviyn: Go
God created the heavens and the earth. He created it specifically for life. He created the animals, the birds, and all living creatures. He endowed them with intelligence. Just like AI cannot write itself magically in a compiler, neither can any form of intelligent sentience poof into existence. Maybe in wonderland, but even there, I dont know.
Thats the truth of the matter. You can go looking as to how it was done, and why things work the way they do, etc. Thats all nice and dandy, but the science all comes from God.
Thats just how it is. One should not consider running off and joining the circus with their jokes on multiverse, parallel universe, eternalverse, eternal time, laws of physics creating themselves etc. Its funny the first time around, but y`know. I used to be on that end of the stick, but thank God for knowledge(Really guys, really).
Honestly. Honestly. Honestly, and not to attack you in anyway but I think you dont understand evolution. Atleast not on a deep and intricate level. See, this is kinda like blind faith. My bad for not dropping the hammer on it(yet).
You think humanity has been around for 200k years. I dont even know what to say to that lol.:/
@Gradius12: Go
David.M is a prime example of ignorance and arrogance personified. I bet he likes to watch porn and is mad he shouldn`t be doing so. So he acts like a raving lunatic. That, or he clumps all religions into a stereotypical view. Which, because he obviously has never read the Bible.
Bible promotes truth seeking. His whole argument is invalid.
Bible is extremely accurate historically. His whole argument is invalid.
Science proves Bible(cant do this with any other religous book). His whole argument is invalid.
I can say a lot more things in favor and merit of the Bible which is 100% true(Go go, feel free to contradict me), but David.M just dont know much about it(or he just likes his porn and its going to stay that way!).
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@Gradius12: Go
Lol that golden throne looks sweet and probably does wonders for the ego. Though Catholics aren`t all that bad, according to the wiki:
The Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of education and medical services in the world
You`re being judgemental with the pics you are posting.
It truly is amazing how easily you guys get offended that someone challenges the idea of an invisible man in the sky creating everything. Yet you have zero problems:
1) Telling gays they can't marry.
2) Telling people that they can't get an abortion.
3) Telling science teachers to teach ID (goddidit) in schools.
4) Promoting your religion in the public domain at the expense of other religions.
Invisible man in the sky is more bronze age thinking. We dont view it that way.
1. Blargh. I couldn`t care if gays marry, but we dont view it as legitimate. Difference of opinion. In 2050 people will be able to marry Robots and sooner have sex with it. http://www.livescience.com/1951-forecast-sex-marriage-robots-2050.html
2. I dont support abortion. Put the kid up for adoption or something?. In the worst of circumstances , it might be needed. But its done too haphazardly and without a care today, with people just killing off the responsibility from their actions/mistakes.
3. I would have been a God-believer a long time ago if they taught intelligent design at school. Pity you actually have to go digging up real 100% scientific data on it later on in life to actually know it for yourself.
4. We have major religions(Christianity/Judaism, Islam, Hiduism, Buddhism), minor, and the rest contemporary, `new age` etc.
Brief outlines of each should be taught in schools. Christianity is the claim of X,Y , Z based on A , B and C. Islam is so and so and so about this and that. Buddhism is a practice of meditative practices and teachings centered around awareness etc and deriving from the teaching of " ".
Any of the religions with substantial history and knowledge and background to it should be presentable.
Religion forms a very real undeniable history of the world.
Evolution can be taught in school as long as we are not jumping to conclusions on matters, and also filling people in on the many many gaps the `theory` presents. That would be a scientific way of doing it, rather than brushing off our current misguided understanding of evolution as fact/truth.
@Eiviyn: Go
Bill Gates sounds more agnostic. Atleast, from his interviews.
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@FDFederation: Go
Also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible
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@FDFederation: Go
You do realize that what you've posted are infomercial quotes, right? If you actually checked your quotes, you should notice that they come from traditional religious, new age spirituality, UFO, and conspiracy web sites
Haha no. Thats not the case. Lol. The research is also on-going.
More than 90% of the body's serotonin lies in the gut; as well as about 50% of the body's dopamine:
Yea, also, kinda completely irrelevant.
Although its influence is far-reaching, the gut is not the seat of any conscious thoughts or decision-making.
I've recently stopped replying to you because you have repeatedly failed all thread to answer these questions:
1) Prove that god has to be the uncaused cause.
2) Prove that the universe was created.
3) Just because the bible has some facts in it does not mean everything in there is true, as is the case with books like Harry Potter. How do you bridge the gap and conclude that God is real?
I'll answer whatever you want once you provide actual answers to these questions.
Its because you dont have answers to my questions. You`d just say "Go do your own research" whenever your crazy theories hit a dead center.
1. Has to be?, or IS?. This question has already been dealt with.
2. No dude, the universe was obviously not created. Ignore science, logic and reason too while you are at it. We`re all secretly in wonderland.
3. Everything is true. The bible has proven to be perfectly reliable, in many different cases and especially historically like for:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/stewart.cfm?id=407
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites#Archaeological_discovery
the evidence for the historical accuracy of the Bible continues to build.
I dont see how this relates to a fictional book such as Harry potter. Most religions are like that?, yes probably indeed, but not the Bible. It can stand on its own merit.
Explain to me, if you would, the reason you believe that appendectomy is one of the most common abdominal surgeries despite the appendix being such a small segment of our bowels?
ProzaicMuze can deal with that. You`re use of intelligent design is a bit subjective here. We cant call the appendix useless. Sure we can do without it, and it seems a more pesky organ than others, but this can also be said of other organs too under/during z, x,y conditions.
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@Nebuli2: Go
:::::::::::::::::::::
"Since emotional processes can work faster than the mind, it takes a power stronger than the mind to bend perception, override emotional circuitry, and provide us with intuitive feeling instead. It takes the power of the heart."
-Doc Childre, Founder, Institute of HeartMath
www.heartmath.org
The Intelligence of the Heart:
[b]"The idea that we can think with our hearts is no longer just a metaphor, but is, in fact, a very real phenomenon. We now know this because the combined research of two or three fields is proving that the heart is the major center of intelligence in human beings. Molecular biologists have discovered that the heart is the body's most important endocrine gland. In response to our experience of the world, it produces and releases a major hormone, ANF , which stands for Atriol Neuriatic Factor , that profoundly effects every operation in the limbic structure, or what we refer to as the "emotional brain." This includes the hippocampal area where memory and learning take place, and also the control centers for the entire hormonal system. And neurocardiologist have found that 60 to 65% of the cells of the heart are actually neural cells, not muscle cells as was previously believed."**
-Joseph Chilton Pearce
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
the heart affects mental clarity, creativity, emotional balance and personal effectiveness. Our research and that of others indicate that the heart is far more than a simple pump. The heart is, in fact, a highly complex, self-organized information processing center with its own functional "brain" that communicates with and influences the cranial brain via the nervous system, hormonal system and other pathways. These influences profoundly affect brain function and most of the body’s major organs, and ultimately determine the quality of life
-HeartMath
www.heartmath.org
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
“...In recent years several heart transplant recipients have reported unexpected side effects including experiencing memories, habits and desires they never had before. With studies showing that these are not isolated cases, 'Transplanting Memories?' meets patients searching to understand what has happened to them. The film follows organ recipients as they make contact with their donor families in an effort to understand their new found lease of life and features scientists who are pioneering research into the intelligence of the heart and the biochemical basis for memory in our cells. Is science's understanding of how memory works quite as cut and dried as once thought?” ( (source: Mindshock: Transplanting Memories? Channel 4 television, UK, 26 June, 2006 at 10pm BST).
Completely independently of such heart transplant experiences, Dr Andrew Armour Ph.D. is a heart specialist who had noticed the presence of neurons in the heart – he noted a sophisticated collection of these and learned that the heart contains a complex nervous system of its own. He soon realised that there is a more intimate connection between the heart and brain than had previously been known or understood. Indeed, the doctor claims that the heart actually sends more information to the brain than the other way around! Dr Armour has written a pamphlet called, Anatomical and Functional Principles. His publisher makes the following comment about this writing:
[i]'Groundbreaking research in the field of neurocardiology has established that the heart is a sensory organ and a sophisticated information encoding and processing center, with an extensive intrinsic nervous system sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "heart brain" .... Armour discusses intriguing data documenting the complex neuronal processing and memory capabilities of the intrinsic cardiac nervous system, indicating that the heart brain can process information and make decisions about its control independent of the central nervous system. By providing an understanding of the elaborate anatomy and physiology of the cardiac nervous system, this monograph contributes to the newly emerging view of the heart as a complex, self-organized system that maintains a continuous two-way dialogue with the brain and the rest of the body.
http://madurasinghe.blogspot.com/2008/06/neurocardiology-brain-in-heart.html
http://scienceray.com/biology/human-biology/do-you-know-that-the-heart-can-think/
Professor Paul Pearsall Ph.D. has also made a contribution to the new discussion of the intelligence of the human heart. After interviewing nearly 150 heart and other organ transplant recipients, Pearsall proposed the once staggering concept that cells of living tissue could have the capacity to remember.
Paul Pearsall is one of many researchers who has observed that transplant patients who receive an organ from another person's body may also receive much more , what he calls their "cellular memories." Recipients have reported inheriting everything from the donor's food cravings to knowledge about his murderer, information that in one case led to the killer's arrest. As a result of these and other researchers' findings, Pearsall is now convinced that the heart has its own form of intelligence, that we are only rarely aware of in modern life. In his view, the heart processes information about the body and the outside world through an "info-energetic code", a profuse network of blood vessels and cells that serves not only as our circulatory system but as an energy information gathering and distribution system, much like a complex telephone network. What's more, he believes that the soul, at least in part, is a set of cellular memories that is carried largely by our hearts. Predictably, such views have met with opposition in the medical world. But in his view, the implications of his theories , that the heart "thinks," cells remember, and communication can therefore transcend the boundaries of time and space , are too important for him to dismiss
Along with this, more scientists are regularly joining this exciting new area of research and even Britain's foremost heart transplant doctor, Professor Sir Magdi Yacoub (in the televised channel 4 programme), while being guarded in his comments, nevertheless welcomed the new area of research, although, of course, the professor is typical of a long line of heart specialists who have only seen the human heart as a pumper of blood.
However, the extensive research of Armour and others show that there can now be no going back – we can all now state quite dogmatically that the relationship between the heart and brain has been hugely underestimated and that the heart contains more brain-like capacities than anyone would have thought just a very few years ago. There is an inter-change between heart and brain with the brain actually receiving more information from the heart than vice versa.
This means that the biblical concept that the heart is the seat of one's soul , intellect and character can no longer be taken as a purely poetic/romantic writing idiom.
Bible still is the word of God. Science proves Bible. Science catches up to Bible. Atheism still a belief system with zero evidence and support. In later news, Gradius will continue to dodge my questions and go on to tell us how the growth of toe tails = bad design = cant be a god, That same logic in him talking about the appendix.
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@Mozared: Go
Yep, I see what you mean.
The one question about the king sacrificing his daughter to God. While mistranslation is strongly pointed out in the Hebrew, He just as well could have done exactly as the text says so because we dont really have a concise understanding on it. In that case, I should have mentioned the latter which I wanted to, but regret not doing. But your point stands.
For every other part I did not attempt/resort to dodgy excuses wherein the scripture was genuinely misused and taken out of context(aka not looking at the very next line after, or before)
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TheZizz already dealt with that. Its a very herp derp type of question that, I dont know, people expect a ....Wait, just this in, The cake I was planning to bake just baked itself. It created itself!!. Goodluck proving it did not require a cause. Why the cake dun that?, Dunno, How the cake dun that?, Dunno, Why the cake dun that when it did, Dunno, What made the cake dun that?, Dunno. Time to create illogical theories to make the illogical seem plausible. Be right back. Dont believe anything else no matter how obvious it seems, cuz ye never know`.
God is the indescribable, uncreated, self existent, eternal source of all reality and being.<Logically, and obviously?
What makes you think time is eternal?. Can you prove that?. If anything can be eternal, why do the heathen refuse the God concept?(And we add intelligence to that because its self evident). The first cause is beyond time, and beyond entropy/cause and effect. Otherwise the universe could not have been created.
My point was that humanity has existed for the past 100,000 to 250,000 years
False.
"Prove your religion is the right religion."
Apart from already dismantling your theories on multiverse, parallel universes, eternal universes, (pity had not did the Evolution part), and clearly demonstrating tangible evidence for intelligent design while dismissing the notions of randomness and chance(Chaos Gods). Ive already shown the Bible to be Historically accurate, Scientifically accurate and Factually accurate as far as possible. The claims made in the Bible are huge, but the 3 mentioned aspects can back it up. Unlike any other religion, Which Ive even challenged but no atheist made an attempt(The Quran was paltry effort. Where are the Zillion other religions that confound us for choice!?)
"Why doesn't God heal amputees?"
From another source:
Your question seems to merely be a very specific re-articulation of the general argument against God due to the existence of evil. Formally restating your argument:
-An omnipotent God would heal amputees.
-Amputees are not healed.
-Therefore, an omnipotent God does not exist.
You could just as easily replace the major premise with anything else unpleasant: why do people lose limbs in the first place? The ultimate question you’re really asking is Why Does God’s Creation Include Death and Suffering? If you already believe that flaws in the world disprove God, then naming any flaw that God doesn’t fix—or any good deed God doesn’t do—will just reaffirm your perspective.
Answering your question completely requires a few tangential comments:
-Miracles aren’t a grab-bag of goodies for us to enjoy; rather, God uses miracles in particular points of time for very specific purposes. God doesn't need to prove Himself to us (we’re on trial, not Him), nor does He “need” to bless us. When He does bless us, it is entirely out of mercy.
-God has done greater works than restoring limbs. If He created the entire universe out of nothing, spoke all plants and animals into existence, sculpted and breathed life into the first two humans, and raised His Son from death, it is clear that He has the power to heal amputees if and when it is His will.
-If there is no God, why should we care if people have lost limbs? To borrow from C. S. Lewis, in a truly godless world, amputations wouldn’t be “good” or “bad”; they would simply be, a fact of life no different from a tree shedding leaves. Attacking theism on a moral basis undermines the argument.
-You qualify your own question with “[e]xcept the ear that Jesus put it back.” You may as well ask, “If God is all-powerful, why did He never part the Red Sea—except for that one time in Exodus?” And not only is your argument qualified; it is also, essentially, an argument from silence. Even if the Bible doesn’t record the healing of an amputee, that doesn’t mean God never has
Not played the last one yet, but those are my favourite cards.
Your beliefs are proven absurdities, Your reasons for disbelief are subjective and bias, You hardly display an apt for looking at things in the possibility it might be true. Dont need anything else to say.
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He would, He would. Its a trap to assume God is waiting for the slightest opportunity to cast us into a `hell` or torment us. Such an attitude leads to despair and should not be entertained. All it takes is the slightest attitude of repentance and change of heart for a person to save him/herself. I dont think anyone is going to get intentionally screwed at the end of their lives. Every person bears some responsibility for their actions and inner most decisions. We have our conscious that acts as one means of warning , then we have knowledge, and all sorts of persuasive and true forces that can lead us on the right track. Who better to judge that , than God?.
The whispers that tell us God is evil, cruel, and is wanting to kill/destroy and damn us. Where do they come from?
"Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live.Ezekiel 18:23
As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people. I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so they can live. Turn! Turn from your wickedness, O people of Israel! Why should you die? Ezekiel 33:11
I don't want you to die, says the Sovereign LORD. Turn back and live!Ezekiel 18:32
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.1 Timothy 2:4
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.John 3:17
(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.1 Timothy 4:10
For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people..Titus 2:11
Numbers 14:18 (KJV) ‘The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’
Psalm 86:15 (KJV) But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, long suffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Psalm 78:38 Yet he was merciful; he forgave their iniquities and did not destroy them. Time after time he restrained his anger and did not stir up his full wrath.
Psalm 108:4 For great is your love, higher than the heavens; your faithfulness reaches to the skies.
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.1 John 4:8
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. Isaiah 45:22
We`re not talking `Dungeons and Dragons` definition of Sorceress here(Throwing fireballs?)... Occult practices, witchcraft, fortune telling, etc. No different than modern day occult. Not that I believe they have any power in their efforts, but they obviously are deluded in thinking so.
Appendix is not useless. I dont know about the coccyx.
The fact that we can easily survive without it, hardly does much for the argument. We can also live without the Gall bladder, with 1 Kidney, etc. The human body is extremely resilient and has many fail-safes. Continuous wear and tear on the intended design, will lead to damage. The body is not meant to be perfect under every condition but rather optimal under its design specs.
And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.Genesis 1:29
You see, this was meant to be our original diet. Threshold of deviation from this is forgiving despite the amount of man-made junk and other foods we intoxicate our body with. There`s a limit of course.
I think the body is well designed, and we dont give any credit for that. No matter how perfect a design, you`ll always be able to find a flaw. I can argue why we dont have the strength of a silverback(but then this would make flight like a bird nigh impossible and contradictory if it were desired too), or why we dont have biological immortality as some organisms and bacterium do, or why we cant propagate the `evolution` cycle/process to no end without worrying about dread diseases, HIV, etc(aka having inbuilt immunity). Wouldn`t that be better design after all?.
We dont see the purpose of the recognized flaws. The positive is with purpose and reason , but the negative not so?. Our own understanding is still catching up. Again, jumping to conclusions that there is no creator is a poor argument to make.
we don't believe your storybook since it has no evidence nor proof for it's claims.
There`s a difference between being skeptical(Like myself) and downright running around with blinkers(you with this statement).
Its getting there. The one world government still has to come, and its evident such a thing is just looming. Evil still has to run its full course.
Israel will be besieged, nuclear fall out will occur. Etc. Would be nice if God just jumped right there. But the events in the bible play out exactly as God foretold. Christ coming...etc and now we`re in the time period of being called to repentance and when thats over, the action/fireworks will start.
The acting forces would be our free will, cause and effect, the angelic and demonic activity(I know this sounds stupid, but its not a Hollywood style context), God. I do not know if the system is dynamic or static and mathematically balanced in every way. I also do not know the relation between all the factors, which is more predominate or what sort of balance exists.
If there is a god I'd hope we try to detect his presence scientifically. I believe that humans, given enough knowledge, can understand everything about the universe.I wouldn't just give up. I'd try to figure out how God works, what he is made of, etc.
Stop avoiding my question. Ive asked you, if we were in nothing more than a computer simulation, How would we know this?.
Your understanding of God is very limit and finite with your above statement. Its also illogical.
I know this doctor, Very nice guy. Gay, but very nice, intelligent and humble person. Have also had a best friend whom was a lesbian. Have no problem with them.
Point in question, We`re not called to hate and judge the person but more the practice. TaintedWisp goes about it all wrong..
Nevertheless, its not a question of tolerance as I said. God views it as an abomination and commands us not to engage in it. It does not matter what you think, or care, that is the bottom line. Humans can draw lines wherever they please, but not so with God the Holy Creator.
Just like beastiality is seen as a perversion by our standards. Yet a person that practices that, can still be all nice and good and intelligent and whatever.
You might then say, well whatever they do is their own business and should not affect your view and association with them. That is true, but in God`s eyes both that and homosexual relations are still seen as perversion practices by his standards.
Please. Just no. I swear you are counter-productive to Christianity in this thread. You really need to grow up, and until then you should stick to reading the Bible more and leave this thread entirely.
Drama queen;p. For what its worth though, please disregard Taintedwisp from this discussion. Just as most of us disregard Hookah from this discussion(aka the atheist that never/rarely has anything worthwhile or knowledgeable to add)
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I would not throw him or her out. At that age, they are not doing anything wrong, they just dont know any better. You lead by example. Patience, teaching where you can(Not forcing, but you should be seen as a guide and refuge of love and advice), and exemplifying the qualities of Christ. How often did the apostles show doubt and disbelief?(many many many times..) Peter(being a coward at the time, and I use that word lightly) even disowned/denied Jesus at one point. Jesus did not kick any of them out.
Remember this, You cant save anyone. None of us can. Only God can do that. Only God can tug at the heart and only they can decide on the decision. Its thus more effective to pray for him/her and to simply trust in God. God is fair and just in everything.
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@Gradius12: Go Not only is god responsible for miscarriages, but every single genetic defect that anyone has ever had.
We dont know why things like that happen. The reasons behind it etc. Somehow I dont think it has anything to do with God having random fun in an evil manner. Why would God do that?. No need to jump to big conclusions knowing your pint sized brain cant understand it.
@The picture
Says who?. How do you know God did not Judge America for everything they have done?. Does the bible say he will judge only on Gay marriage and abortion?. No. Once again, your picture is completely wrong.
If it was by accident?, Continually sinning on purpose?. Be specific. I would not condemn you, and neither would God. As long as you make an effort to repent and stop sinning(aka stop being evil), an effort to not judge others(so you wont be judged harshly), and to be merciful(so you will receive mercy), You`re good to go. No one is perfect and all have sinned(except Christ), Realizing the error and stopping is good.