You realize that out of all the threads you complained in, there may have been one that specifically was a discussion about the pros and cons of the popularity system, right? Take this thread - it wasn't really about the popularity system before you butted in with another "ZOMG THE POP SYSTEM SUCKS". Not to mention the fact that your 'fault' is that I've yet to see you use an actual argument for the point. Those 'people' defending it are 90% strawmen you've pulled out.
And Bounty; no offense, but 50% of your maps seems to be the planetary boss fight thing and its offspring. I'm not judging the quality of your maps, but it's not like you've got a 'legion of awesome maps' that are all being put down. At least half of that are rehashes/additions to one concept.
See, now you're just being stupid. "This thread wasn't about the pop system sucking" uh... did you even READ the OP? Or did you just jump in to take a stab at me? The entire point of this thread is that the shitty pop system is making Bounty quit, so yeah. Get your facts straight before you try to pick a fight. I jump into threads that are relevant to my posts, only threads dealing with the pop system hear from me.
P.S. I only posted because certain individuals were being retards, and making it out like we're obligated to wait and put up with the shitty system until Blizzard gets their shit together. I didn't even post just to say the system sucked, I posted against the idiots who think it's our duty to stand by Blizzard when they fuck us over.
I was gonna post "In before Colt pops up and makes a post complaining about the popularity system and calling anybody who disagrees a Blizzard fanboy", but it looks like I arrived late at the party.
Anyway - you should do what you like, really, Bounty. If you feel it's not worth your time, then stop doing it. Since you're the only one who knows about your feelings, its rather pointless for anyone to say you're wrong. Discussion's all good though, and I do think you might be setting too much foot by the popularity system.
Hey, not my fault the system continues to suck, and people continue making topics about it, and people continue to defend it.
Simple to understand and complexity are two totally different things.
There are plenty of games which have a difficult learning curve. Does this automatically make them complex? There are plenty of games with a well thought out learning curve. Does this make them dumbed down and simple?
Also, personally, I would call a map "short" if it was between 15 and 45 minutes long. Any longer than that and you just run too much risk of people leaving the game, which ruins matches in itself. Yeah, 3 hour long diplomacy maps can be fun. Does that mean anything shorter has no depth?
My map would average around 45 minutes to an hour, and it's quite simple. I mean it's 'earn income every turn, build units, kill enemy'. But I can guarantee you my map would never make the first page. Because while a SINGLE game of mine was being played, some shitty tug map would get like 10 games played because it's 5 minutes long. So even if my map was beloved, it'd never get to a high page simply because it's too long. Short of having half the SC2 players playing my map, it'd always be in the back.
This is why we hate the system, because if you make anything more then a 5 minute tug map, you'll never see your map played. In the end it's complexity is irrelevant, hell if it's good is irrelevant. -ALL- that matters is how long it is, and some of us simply don't wanna be forced to make shitty 5 minute maps, so we quit. Stop defending Blizzard or trying to make it seem like we're in the wrong. Blizzard fucked up and after 10 months have shown absolutely no sign of fixing the system. We have no obligation to tough it out, if people wanna quit and move onto better systems that don't fuck them over, good. More people need to do that.
My advice isn't make shitty, dumbed down maps. Think outside the box bro. Just make simple easy to understand map. I mean it can be an all out crazy idea, but needs to have simple ways to play it. Not everyone reads the loading screen. This isn't WC3, this is SC2. No he doesen't have an obligation, but he does have a choice whether his map gets played or not, but he doesn't want to work for it. If it was my creation, I'd bump the heck out of it. It's not necessarily the system that isn't always the problem. Its the people too, they don't want to work for it.
I really dont care that he chose to quit, thats his choice. But he also had a choice for his maps to get played. And aren't you the kid that doesn't have SC2 because of a popularity system? lul.
If maps HAVE to be short, and HAVE to be so simple a toddler can understand them, that's my definition of shitty. Sure, minor mini-games here and there are fun, I played them back in WC3. But when -EVERY- map -HAS- to be a mini-game, it becomes shitty. So yeah, the only way to get your maps played on this system is to make them shitty 5 minute long games with absolutely no depth or any sort of decent or unique gameplay - I.E. Shit.
I understand where Bounty's coming from. Yeah it's pretty frustrating, but do you really need to blow your top? It's not like your making some map for a huge company that's going to pay you by the hour and give you tons of fame. It's just a hobby for people. And I really can't believe you just ignored half the peoples advice on here.
Look at it this way: Nexus wars is really balanced. The guy took a regular Tug-Of-War and made it pretty cool actually. It still gets boring fast, but if you want to play a quick UMS on the fly before you have to go to work or school thats it. Longer games usually happen with a organized team. ANYWAY to my point: If you made a simple map everyone can understand you'd probably do a lot better.
Eiv got page 1 because her map was Simple and Easy to understand, Nexus wars got page 1 because it was simple and easy to understand. Same with Battlecraft, SotIs and so on. They all are simple maps. The community obviously likes simple maps so instead of making an awesome, simple map you make a crazy hard to understand map that will need some explaining beforehand.
A lot of your maps failed. I told you TPS was a turnoff. You never listened. Its your own fault bro.
(This is Nova if you didnt know. ><)
When your best advice is "make shitty, dumbed down maps that toddlers can play", then yeah... I'd quit too. Why waste your time doing something you don't enjoy, making maps you don't want to simply cuz they're the ONLY kind that'll ever get played. Back on WC3 it was the short maps like tug maps that rarely got played, and the long polished maps that were played all the time. Seriously, he has no obligation to tough it out while Blizzard waits for ANOTHER ten months before they fix the system, and you people need to wrap your head around this. The kinds of maps he enjoys making are too long and complex for this system, so his options are to quit, or make stupid 5 minute long maps. He chose to quit. Now if every other map maker would take a stand instead of bending over, begging for Blizzard to screw them some more, maybe Blizzard would be more inclined to fix their shit.
Ok, seriously, it makes me want to punch a baby whenever people use the "hurr u only want to do it for the fame". Seriously, Eiviyn, Qancakes, get your heads out of your asses, jesus christ. Not EVERYBODY does things for the same reasons as you. If you get joy simply from making a map, and nothing else, then power to you. But some of us actually make maps so we can PLAY them. I for one am making a map, and so many times I'm on the brink of quitting because I know that once I finally finish it, I'll never be able to play it, ever. What's the point of making something you can't use? If you guys enjoy making a map and then throwing it in the trash and getting to work on the next, alright, that's cool. But not everyone enjoys that, accept that.
Get off your fucking high-horse and stop with the fucking "hurr durr e-fame" bullshit. In the end, this is about whether or not a map-maker feels it's worth his time, and whether or not he gets enjoyment out of it. Since he enjoys PLAYING his games as much as making them, he gets no joy out of creating maps for such a broken system, so he quits. We don't owe Blizzard anything, we have no obligation to stick it out while they continiously ignore us and refuse to fix the system. Some of us are willing to go "fuck this, and fuck them" and move on. If you're so loyal that you'll stick it out, trying desperately to convince yourself they'll fix it when, after TEN months they still have made no effort to fix it.
So if we wanna throw in the towel, that is WELL within our rights. Blizzard doesn't DESERVE our loyalty at this point, honestly... ten goddamned months they have been told this system sucks, TEN FUCKING MONTHS and they haven't even said they'll be fixing it anytime soon. How anyone can support them at this point is beyond me. But then you guys don't just support them for their dickery, you actively attack those who see the light and move onto greener pastures. Kinda sad.
Eh, that method would be too clumsy. I mean imagine it, you're flying around space and come to your enemie's planet. You go to land only to hit a loading screen as the map loads. Also, there's no way to only allow one person to change maps, EVERYBODY would have to change maps at the same time. So every time they looked at a planets surface, all the players would have to look at the planets surface.
It'd solve the size issue, and create a ton more issues :(
Unfortunately they blatantly said they'd never make larger maps available "the game's optimised for 256x256" didn't stop WC3... hate Blizzard, but that's for another thread.
If you find any other ways, lemme know. Having to rescale EVERYTHING (Seriously, everything... mover speed, unit speed, ranges, stats, oi) is a real pain. An alternate method that allows you to get the large map feel would be wonderful.
Yeah, the zoom in trick isn't perfect, but it's the best there is. Until someone creates a third party editor that allows for 400x400 maps (which wont happen thanks to Blizzard). So if you use that method, you'll just have to make the planet surfaces without cliffs and anything else that can't be scaled.
Terraining a 256*256 map sends shivers down my spine.
Depending on what you wanted, you may not have to. I mean there's already pre-made europe terrains out there lol. Besides, diplo maps never had very intricate terrains.
Well, I don't have video capture tech, but I can simply tell you how it looks. With proper scale it looks.... normal. I mean ground textures are a little large, since they can't be scaled. But units, and everything else. It simply looks like normal SC2 if you do it right. I'll see about getting a screenshot, but if I did it right you shouldn't even notice anything beyond the micro-square on the minimap.
Edit: Here's a screeny, I think the units are still a little on the large side, but you get the idea. Look at the minimap for the little square XD
1v1 footprint is still much too large. I mean, I REALLY scaled shit down... I mean my marines are in the 0.1-0.3 range lol. As for letting you actually see the map.. I'm highly protective D: But... I might be persuaded if you wanted to help out lol. Could always use another triggerer. Who knows, maybe we can bounce ideas off eachother to help with eachothers maps?
I'm making a map similar to yours, it's not a civilization map, but it implements both ground and space. What I did in my map was zoom the camera in, and then shrink everything. My map's size now is around 1000x1000 given the scale of everything. Because of this the space section is MASSIVE with around 14 star systems, each star system consisting of well... a star and anywhere between 3-8 planets around it. The planet surfaces themselves are around the size of a smallish 1v1 map from Blizzard. So it is quite possible to get the expansive nature you want, just requires a TON of scaling.
Also, a question (if you don't mind), but did you re-scale the footprints of buildings? Because that's something I can't figure out. If I go to a footprint and change the scale, it just breaks the footprint, doesn't re-scale it. So I can't get buildings to work right.
P.S. If you host the map on here, I'll dl it and give it a look, could give you some feed-back. I -LOVE- diplomacy maps, especially the space kind, so I'd be happy to help in what ways I can.
So do they have an actual formula posted some where?
Also, i probably shouldn't vent my own opinion, because i STILL play as much wc3 as i do sc2 (i can fill up ANY game i want in wc3), but i have heard some fine ideas. I was incredibly astounded when i COULDN'T change what i sort things by (one of the few systems that has non-clickable categories.)
To please me, they could even just move the "search for game name" function that is IN the create game area, over to the JOIN game area, they obviously have the technology.
People still play WC3? I thought it was Dota, dota everywhere. I wouldn't mind being able to play a galactic conquest or something.
Diplo = Diplomacy. Start as a nation, expand your territory, build your economy and military might, and then deal with other players as they do the same. My favorite game-type in any blizzard game. I thought with an editor as expansive as SC2's that a diplo map would be out ricky tick, hell I thought all sorts of variations would be out. Modern day, medevil period, galactic diplo. But nope, none so far. A couple risk games but no true diplomacy games. :(
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See, now you're just being stupid. "This thread wasn't about the pop system sucking" uh... did you even READ the OP? Or did you just jump in to take a stab at me? The entire point of this thread is that the shitty pop system is making Bounty quit, so yeah. Get your facts straight before you try to pick a fight. I jump into threads that are relevant to my posts, only threads dealing with the pop system hear from me.
P.S. I only posted because certain individuals were being retards, and making it out like we're obligated to wait and put up with the shitty system until Blizzard gets their shit together. I didn't even post just to say the system sucked, I posted against the idiots who think it's our duty to stand by Blizzard when they fuck us over.
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Hey, not my fault the system continues to suck, and people continue making topics about it, and people continue to defend it.
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My map would average around 45 minutes to an hour, and it's quite simple. I mean it's 'earn income every turn, build units, kill enemy'. But I can guarantee you my map would never make the first page. Because while a SINGLE game of mine was being played, some shitty tug map would get like 10 games played because it's 5 minutes long. So even if my map was beloved, it'd never get to a high page simply because it's too long. Short of having half the SC2 players playing my map, it'd always be in the back.
This is why we hate the system, because if you make anything more then a 5 minute tug map, you'll never see your map played. In the end it's complexity is irrelevant, hell if it's good is irrelevant. -ALL- that matters is how long it is, and some of us simply don't wanna be forced to make shitty 5 minute maps, so we quit. Stop defending Blizzard or trying to make it seem like we're in the wrong. Blizzard fucked up and after 10 months have shown absolutely no sign of fixing the system. We have no obligation to tough it out, if people wanna quit and move onto better systems that don't fuck them over, good. More people need to do that.
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If maps HAVE to be short, and HAVE to be so simple a toddler can understand them, that's my definition of shitty. Sure, minor mini-games here and there are fun, I played them back in WC3. But when -EVERY- map -HAS- to be a mini-game, it becomes shitty. So yeah, the only way to get your maps played on this system is to make them shitty 5 minute long games with absolutely no depth or any sort of decent or unique gameplay - I.E. Shit.
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When your best advice is "make shitty, dumbed down maps that toddlers can play", then yeah... I'd quit too. Why waste your time doing something you don't enjoy, making maps you don't want to simply cuz they're the ONLY kind that'll ever get played. Back on WC3 it was the short maps like tug maps that rarely got played, and the long polished maps that were played all the time. Seriously, he has no obligation to tough it out while Blizzard waits for ANOTHER ten months before they fix the system, and you people need to wrap your head around this. The kinds of maps he enjoys making are too long and complex for this system, so his options are to quit, or make stupid 5 minute long maps. He chose to quit. Now if every other map maker would take a stand instead of bending over, begging for Blizzard to screw them some more, maybe Blizzard would be more inclined to fix their shit.
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Ok, seriously, it makes me want to punch a baby whenever people use the "hurr u only want to do it for the fame". Seriously, Eiviyn, Qancakes, get your heads out of your asses, jesus christ. Not EVERYBODY does things for the same reasons as you. If you get joy simply from making a map, and nothing else, then power to you. But some of us actually make maps so we can PLAY them. I for one am making a map, and so many times I'm on the brink of quitting because I know that once I finally finish it, I'll never be able to play it, ever. What's the point of making something you can't use? If you guys enjoy making a map and then throwing it in the trash and getting to work on the next, alright, that's cool. But not everyone enjoys that, accept that.
Get off your fucking high-horse and stop with the fucking "hurr durr e-fame" bullshit. In the end, this is about whether or not a map-maker feels it's worth his time, and whether or not he gets enjoyment out of it. Since he enjoys PLAYING his games as much as making them, he gets no joy out of creating maps for such a broken system, so he quits. We don't owe Blizzard anything, we have no obligation to stick it out while they continiously ignore us and refuse to fix the system. Some of us are willing to go "fuck this, and fuck them" and move on. If you're so loyal that you'll stick it out, trying desperately to convince yourself they'll fix it when, after TEN months they still have made no effort to fix it.
So if we wanna throw in the towel, that is WELL within our rights. Blizzard doesn't DESERVE our loyalty at this point, honestly... ten goddamned months they have been told this system sucks, TEN FUCKING MONTHS and they haven't even said they'll be fixing it anytime soon. How anyone can support them at this point is beyond me. But then you guys don't just support them for their dickery, you actively attack those who see the light and move onto greener pastures. Kinda sad.
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Eh, that method would be too clumsy. I mean imagine it, you're flying around space and come to your enemie's planet. You go to land only to hit a loading screen as the map loads. Also, there's no way to only allow one person to change maps, EVERYBODY would have to change maps at the same time. So every time they looked at a planets surface, all the players would have to look at the planets surface.
It'd solve the size issue, and create a ton more issues :(
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Unfortunately they blatantly said they'd never make larger maps available "the game's optimised for 256x256" didn't stop WC3... hate Blizzard, but that's for another thread.
If you find any other ways, lemme know. Having to rescale EVERYTHING (Seriously, everything... mover speed, unit speed, ranges, stats, oi) is a real pain. An alternate method that allows you to get the large map feel would be wonderful.
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Yeah, the zoom in trick isn't perfect, but it's the best there is. Until someone creates a third party editor that allows for 400x400 maps (which wont happen thanks to Blizzard). So if you use that method, you'll just have to make the planet surfaces without cliffs and anything else that can't be scaled.
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Depending on what you wanted, you may not have to. I mean there's already pre-made europe terrains out there lol. Besides, diplo maps never had very intricate terrains.
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Well, I don't have video capture tech, but I can simply tell you how it looks. With proper scale it looks.... normal. I mean ground textures are a little large, since they can't be scaled. But units, and everything else. It simply looks like normal SC2 if you do it right. I'll see about getting a screenshot, but if I did it right you shouldn't even notice anything beyond the micro-square on the minimap.
Edit: Here's a screeny, I think the units are still a little on the large side, but you get the idea. Look at the minimap for the little square XD
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1v1 footprint is still much too large. I mean, I REALLY scaled shit down... I mean my marines are in the 0.1-0.3 range lol. As for letting you actually see the map.. I'm highly protective D: But... I might be persuaded if you wanted to help out lol. Could always use another triggerer. Who knows, maybe we can bounce ideas off eachother to help with eachothers maps?
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I'm making a map similar to yours, it's not a civilization map, but it implements both ground and space. What I did in my map was zoom the camera in, and then shrink everything. My map's size now is around 1000x1000 given the scale of everything. Because of this the space section is MASSIVE with around 14 star systems, each star system consisting of well... a star and anywhere between 3-8 planets around it. The planet surfaces themselves are around the size of a smallish 1v1 map from Blizzard. So it is quite possible to get the expansive nature you want, just requires a TON of scaling.
Also, a question (if you don't mind), but did you re-scale the footprints of buildings? Because that's something I can't figure out. If I go to a footprint and change the scale, it just breaks the footprint, doesn't re-scale it. So I can't get buildings to work right.
P.S. If you host the map on here, I'll dl it and give it a look, could give you some feed-back. I -LOVE- diplomacy maps, especially the space kind, so I'd be happy to help in what ways I can.
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People still play WC3? I thought it was Dota, dota everywhere. I wouldn't mind being able to play a galactic conquest or something.
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Diplo = Diplomacy. Start as a nation, expand your territory, build your economy and military might, and then deal with other players as they do the same. My favorite game-type in any blizzard game. I thought with an editor as expansive as SC2's that a diplo map would be out ricky tick, hell I thought all sorts of variations would be out. Modern day, medevil period, galactic diplo. But nope, none so far. A couple risk games but no true diplomacy games. :(