This is the NA scene's group and it has been more consistent than any one else's and I sometimes join in.
A couple of things to note:
1. The bulk of the maps are published on NA.
2. Too many EU players can be seen on NA in the mornings.
3. NA is where you are most likely to run into someone important from Blizzard (I you ever do).
I do know the EU Diplo scene has moved over there. I know the bulk of the map makers are over here.
4. If anyone has a spare account, a bot can be set up that will help people "sign up" for games. Getting enough people together is the biggest hurtle and is usually why theses events tend to fail.
I can volunteer some NA time. I've got the stuff to stream and make videos.
Lets just say, I am a well mannered, Intelligent, polite individual that knows the inner workings of this community very well :) and leave it at that.
Uh huh,
You know this behind the scenes crap is not only A. the biggest thing that set me off but also B. one of the biggest reasons the arcade went the way it did.
And to see if we can narrow you down further (and I caught the post about Dogmai knowing btw), allow me to state the following as a fact. Because, well, it is.
Much of what caused the fall of the arcade was the huge failure of their community management department.
There were many of note. One being committing Blizzard to the position of knowingly committing fraud (that whole mess when cross region play finally came in and people who had multiple accounts under the same email but only got 1 log-in account despite having paid for 2. The community manager went so far as to defend that decision and it was a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen).
Then there was the "lets censor our own developer" stunt. 2 of them in fact.
I can't recall if this is the absolute dumbest thing Blizzard's Community Managers/PR Department have done to date but it ought to be close. Letting half or more of their entire "professional level" community E-Sports mappers have that many reasons to go make maps for Valve and other companies really ought to have cost someone their job. That's huge damage right there because now Blizzard has been made to look unreliable to even professional groups.
I have more but I will wait and see how you respond. Depending on who you are, this could be a prema ban from sc2mapster.
As for derailing the thread. This could make a valid claim to be on topic. After all you cannot successfully brainstorm a working solution until you identify all of the reasons for the failure.
And that last sentence is going to light a few fires.
1. Theres a quote button, it makes things look much more presentable when your quoting someone else.
2. When he says "You have another thing coming to you" that's not a threat, he is simply saying that if you believe that it will become profitable by that time, then you will be proven completely and utterly wrong.
Note* I am not agreeing with or disagreeing with what he said, just simply calming down the tension :) Cultural Barriers can cause phrases to not work out so well.
Then please for the love of basic comprehension, use quotation marks :(
Your account was created on the 21st of this year (that is 6 days ago now). If you are truly a new mapper you wouldn't be trying to mediate you would be asking how to make a unit or taking a professional programmer's stance and give the map editor a harsh review.
Now here is one more thing.
This is coming right after we find out that Blizzard sent an email to the featured arcade map makers and now someone who is acting like a community manager is now here posting.
However brain storming might be a good PR move but the problem is, as you stated, time is limited. And so are funds I take it.
So I'm going to try 2 suggestions on you and see what you do with them.
1. The first move has to be made by Blizzard. But that doesn't mean it has to be a monetary move if you at least want to get something done. The biggest free (cheaper than programmer man hours at least) thing that would have prevented the fall from being as hard as it was providing Blizzard led/sponsored organization. Not only to get map makers the lines of communication so they can get bugs fixed (I don't know how many hours I lose on...) in a timely manner but also to organize regular events and games.
This is the very last community run and driven regular custom map event. If this falls there will be nothing left and no one has any plans to start something. Namely, its one of the very few routes open to recovery that Blizzard doesn't have to open. They do need to support it, promote it, and make it a much bigger event.
2. The greatest evil working against Blizzard in general is phrase you are hearing in too many, perhaps even the majority of discussions: "Blizzard doesn't give a ". Almost all of the recent releases have had this running rampant, and too much of the time with good reason.
And with this being a plague what is Blizzard doing? Throwing all of their chips into Titan. If it fails, Blizzard financial future suddenly begins to take on an "EA form". Its a huge risk and although I don't think its wise to even take it, that doesn't mean that Blizzard shouldn't be concerned about their new, well-earned (its the truth) public image.
This image not only caught up with EA. It terrifies companies way out of ATVI's league. Every time BP has an oil spill they blow millions in nation-wide TV adds and internet adds to try to repair public relations. If they, an oil company are afraid of having a bad public image, then Blizzard ought to be in near-panic.
So out of all of the potential costumers, which have learned the catch phrase "Blizzard doesn't give a fuck". And after ForumCraft 3, StarCrap 2 amounting to some 10 million customers who could have learned that phrase how many of them do you think will be chanting it? Its been rampant on your own forums for years. If you lost any sales, then the people who didn't come back probably learned it too.
So is Titan going to get a sympathetic review? I don't think so. The bias is too strong, too many are expecting it to fail, Blizzard's name is on it after all and "Blizzard doesn't give a fuck". No Titan is going to get grilled and hammered straight out of the gate. Especially since people are going to figure out quickly that needed fixes to SC3, D3 and WoW were put off or canceled because of this game.
Titan has all the makings for a first-class flop. And Titan will not be able to repair it's PR ahead of time. Blizzard now has a long list of "infractions" against them. And actually its Blizzard's PR that needs repairing. Most of your customers haven't bothered to look up a review of your games before buying in years. Now they are going to wait and see "how it pans out" before committing money. This is the new mentality.
Titan may be free to play, but you can bet its going to be fending off "pay to win" claims for 2-3 years even if they do it right. You add "pay to win" and "Blizzard doesn't give a fuck" and you are in for a very rough ride.
So Blizzard can either bite the bullet with Titan, or they can bite the bullet with StarCraft 2. Diablo 3 isn't an option because it lacks the ability to grow on user-made content which played no small roll in StarCraft 1's 10 million copies and WarCraft 3's (I think it was 7 million). Since StarCraft 2 brought in both SC1 and WC3 player bases I think a total of 10-15 million copies by the end of its lifespan would show whether it was up to par with the "classics". WoW isn't an option because its been in decline for a long time and besides its too old.
Now I'm not sure if you will be allowed to delay Titan. But I'd suggest you slow it down as much as possible and try to repair relations on your current games first.
I have a 3rd one but that led to a SC2 forum account ban that kind of backfired on the person banning me.
Edit: Don't mind the bold. Curse's formatting is terrible.
if they want to bring people back, the arcade HAS to be put on its own platform.
with its own engine(based on the sc2 engine so our maps are fully transferable). and then that platform has to be heavily advertised.
You are talking 4-6 months baseline (1 to 3 years blizz-line) to implement that. That solution will take far too long.
As you already pointed out as soon as titan comes out its all over if its not repaired before hand. But as I have been pointing out the community has been trying very hard for over 2 years. If we could not have done then, then we won't do any better now. Blizzard has to fill that gap. They have shown a complete lack of interest in doing so.
Now why did I make that thread about EA? Well since Blizzard's business model has thrown the arcade to the wolves then I think its safe to assume they don't few it profitable.
So the real question is not what can be done by the community alone, its what the community can do to change Blizzard's judgment about the arcade. That is to convince them that the arcade is an important part of their profit scheme.
As such it is a business question, not a mechanics or art assets or even player base question (not directly at least). Someone far higher up in management needs convincing.
And that means losses on a scale that could make such management concerned. EA has proven that the model that both of them are running has a good chance of ending in financial ruin.
But I copied that thread to the SC2 forums. Someone made a very going point. Activision-Blizzard will just brush it off with statements like "Oh we are not evil like EA" etc.
However either this or competition with valve has the highest chance of succeeding. Will it succeed? Most likely not. But the route I am going has a far higher chance than anything else anyone else has come up with.
As I said the deciding factor won't be anything that has to do with us (directly), it is going to be a business decision made at a far higher level.
Well if you are actually actively doing things like that, then that's great, I never though I would say that about you :P
Here is what I'm currently doing:
1. Making 2 maps concurrently.
2. Helping Cerebrate out with this Diplomacy of War 2 (DoW 2 on the arcade). his zerg hybrid structures are top notch, and I'm the one who taught him how to make them, and this was in the last 2 months.
3. I've been providing pointers/knowledge/assets to other map makers.
4. The Map Mentor Project (only ended up having one taker).
5. I've also taken steps for providing people with Actor Templates (the biggest thing holding the average person). They are all published on NA unlocked.
Here is a list:
Amph_001 (this is my amphibious system along with a nice cargo ship)
Hybrid_create_models_001 (these are some doodad crates that are used a lot in hybrids. I took then and added teamcolor to them).
Hybrid_FlyingBoat_001 (This is both useful to make a large unit lift off and land on the ground or surface and dive under water).
Hybrid_InfantrySquads_001 (This is the infantry squad system I am using in my current main project, it really helps with pathing overload issues).
Hybrid_Naval_LargeHull_004 (This is a template for my large boat hull).
Hybrid_Naval_MediumHull_003 (This is a template for my medium boat hull).
Hybrid_Naval_SmallHull_003 (This is my small boat hull).
Hybrid_Turrets_001 (This is a full mod including a template, all suitable WoL assets for turret cores, housing and barrels).
WW2_Units_British_001 (this is a selection of hybrid art assets I am using in my map).
All of this was done after I returned to the scene.
I have been doing more than my part the whole time. Its just I know when I'm doing it that very little will come from it because of Blizzard. I've accepted that and kept working. I started the old premium project for other reasons besides players. I had some ideas I wanted to try and SC2 was still the best medium to do it in.
Nothing in your post is sourced. The onus of evidence is on the one making the claims. You made a bunch of claims, and cited no evidence.
There's your "logic and reason".
Hey Eiviyn I've got a game for you to play:
Its called "Find the clickable URL link on the very first post".
You have been harassing people with honest issues for a long time now and I really hope that SC2Mapster's moderators have enough back bone to let you take a break for a while. This is you doing pure trolling and derailing the thread.
Speaking of which, has anyone ever told you that you make the exact same grammar errors as TaintedWisp?
And your join date meshes quite smoothly with TaintedWisp's second banning?
That's quite a coincidence.
Hey would you look at this. He is here in this thread which is about what's happened to EA and how we can learn lessons from it that might be able to stave off what's happened in SC2.
Instead you are making an accusation with no evidence that is just trying to stir up trouble. I wonder if SC2mapster's moderators are going to step in and get this guy to lay off his pure trolling. I have said nothing offensive and so far this guy hasn't said anything of any relevance to the thread.
0
Well now who's gonna organize it?
0
What's wrong with using funny names for stuff?
Besides, using controversial content (such as a name) makes people curious enough to check it out.
Besides are we not supposed to be playing for fun?
0
"Fokkers" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fokker
0
This is best done in 2 groups on the same region. That way we can use the same maps. And the largest selection is NA anyways.
On top of it a lot of EU players are already over there.
I'm thinking this should be a nightly gig. If its run by a bot then we don't have to worry about so and so now showing up.
0
@Renee2islga: Go
Feature: A arcade filter for expansion-level
Priority: 1
Use: So that the WoL players won't accidentally click the HotS map icons.
They did. But its only in the browse menu not the open lobbies menu where it really counts.
0
First of all a better way to go is to centralize the whole thing.
http://mail.campaigncreations.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=3280
This is the NA scene's group and it has been more consistent than any one else's and I sometimes join in.
A couple of things to note:
1. The bulk of the maps are published on NA.
2. Too many EU players can be seen on NA in the mornings.
3. NA is where you are most likely to run into someone important from Blizzard (I you ever do).
I do know the EU Diplo scene has moved over there. I know the bulk of the map makers are over here.
4. If anyone has a spare account, a bot can be set up that will help people "sign up" for games. Getting enough people together is the biggest hurtle and is usually why theses events tend to fail.
I can volunteer some NA time. I've got the stuff to stream and make videos.
0
Uh huh,
You know this behind the scenes crap is not only A. the biggest thing that set me off but also B. one of the biggest reasons the arcade went the way it did.
And to see if we can narrow you down further (and I caught the post about Dogmai knowing btw), allow me to state the following as a fact. Because, well, it is.
Much of what caused the fall of the arcade was the huge failure of their community management department.
There were many of note. One being committing Blizzard to the position of knowingly committing fraud (that whole mess when cross region play finally came in and people who had multiple accounts under the same email but only got 1 log-in account despite having paid for 2. The community manager went so far as to defend that decision and it was a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen).
Then there was the "lets censor our own developer" stunt. 2 of them in fact.
And then there is this one: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9754145796
I can't recall if this is the absolute dumbest thing Blizzard's Community Managers/PR Department have done to date but it ought to be close. Letting half or more of their entire "professional level" community E-Sports mappers have that many reasons to go make maps for Valve and other companies really ought to have cost someone their job. That's huge damage right there because now Blizzard has been made to look unreliable to even professional groups.
I have more but I will wait and see how you respond. Depending on who you are, this could be a prema ban from sc2mapster.
As for derailing the thread. This could make a valid claim to be on topic. After all you cannot successfully brainstorm a working solution until you identify all of the reasons for the failure.
And that last sentence is going to light a few fires.
0
I think I know. Then again I don't hang around here very much.
You are one of two people.
Edit: Well that rules out most of Sixen's gang. Including Sixen himself come to think of it.
Considering the date and considering you may not be an actual community manager...
Well that pretty much means, at this point, StarEdit or HiveWorkShop.
So you are either and Ahli (or however it's spelled) guy or someone from HiveWorkShop.
Could still be an SC2mapster person but I don't know of anyone off the top of my head.
Then again, as I said, I don't really frequent these forums.
0
Now I've got a question for you.
Who are you really? That account is too new yet you are acting like a community manager.
Yes you have me damned curious. The way you are making your posts doesn't fit the normal mold and
Your account was created on the 21st of this year (that is 6 days ago now). If you are truly a new mapper you wouldn't be trying to mediate you would be asking how to make a unit or taking a professional programmer's stance and give the map editor a harsh review.
Now here is one more thing.
This is coming right after we find out that Blizzard sent an email to the featured arcade map makers and now someone who is acting like a community manager is now here posting.
However brain storming might be a good PR move but the problem is, as you stated, time is limited. And so are funds I take it.
So I'm going to try 2 suggestions on you and see what you do with them.
1. The first move has to be made by Blizzard. But that doesn't mean it has to be a monetary move if you at least want to get something done. The biggest free (cheaper than programmer man hours at least) thing that would have prevented the fall from being as hard as it was providing Blizzard led/sponsored organization. Not only to get map makers the lines of communication so they can get bugs fixed (I don't know how many hours I lose on...) in a timely manner but also to organize regular events and games.
I cannot stress enough the importance of this: http://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=3280
This is the very last community run and driven regular custom map event. If this falls there will be nothing left and no one has any plans to start something. Namely, its one of the very few routes open to recovery that Blizzard doesn't have to open. They do need to support it, promote it, and make it a much bigger event.
2. The greatest evil working against Blizzard in general is phrase you are hearing in too many, perhaps even the majority of discussions: "Blizzard doesn't give a ". Almost all of the recent releases have had this running rampant, and too much of the time with good reason.
And with this being a plague what is Blizzard doing? Throwing all of their chips into Titan. If it fails, Blizzard financial future suddenly begins to take on an "EA form". Its a huge risk and although I don't think its wise to even take it, that doesn't mean that Blizzard shouldn't be concerned about their new, well-earned (its the truth) public image.
This image not only caught up with EA. It terrifies companies way out of ATVI's league. Every time BP has an oil spill they blow millions in nation-wide TV adds and internet adds to try to repair public relations. If they, an oil company are afraid of having a bad public image, then Blizzard ought to be in near-panic.
So out of all of the potential costumers, which have learned the catch phrase "Blizzard doesn't give a fuck". And after ForumCraft 3, StarCrap 2 amounting to some 10 million customers who could have learned that phrase how many of them do you think will be chanting it? Its been rampant on your own forums for years. If you lost any sales, then the people who didn't come back probably learned it too.
So is Titan going to get a sympathetic review? I don't think so. The bias is too strong, too many are expecting it to fail, Blizzard's name is on it after all and "Blizzard doesn't give a fuck". No Titan is going to get grilled and hammered straight out of the gate. Especially since people are going to figure out quickly that needed fixes to SC3, D3 and WoW were put off or canceled because of this game.
Titan has all the makings for a first-class flop. And Titan will not be able to repair it's PR ahead of time. Blizzard now has a long list of "infractions" against them. And actually its Blizzard's PR that needs repairing. Most of your customers haven't bothered to look up a review of your games before buying in years. Now they are going to wait and see "how it pans out" before committing money. This is the new mentality.
Titan may be free to play, but you can bet its going to be fending off "pay to win" claims for 2-3 years even if they do it right. You add "pay to win" and "Blizzard doesn't give a fuck" and you are in for a very rough ride.
So Blizzard can either bite the bullet with Titan, or they can bite the bullet with StarCraft 2. Diablo 3 isn't an option because it lacks the ability to grow on user-made content which played no small roll in StarCraft 1's 10 million copies and WarCraft 3's (I think it was 7 million). Since StarCraft 2 brought in both SC1 and WC3 player bases I think a total of 10-15 million copies by the end of its lifespan would show whether it was up to par with the "classics". WoW isn't an option because its been in decline for a long time and besides its too old.
Now I'm not sure if you will be allowed to delay Titan. But I'd suggest you slow it down as much as possible and try to repair relations on your current games first.
I have a 3rd one but that led to a SC2 forum account ban that kind of backfired on the person banning me.
Edit: Don't mind the bold. Curse's formatting is terrible.
0
You are talking 4-6 months baseline (1 to 3 years blizz-line) to implement that. That solution will take far too long.
As you already pointed out as soon as titan comes out its all over if its not repaired before hand. But as I have been pointing out the community has been trying very hard for over 2 years. If we could not have done then, then we won't do any better now. Blizzard has to fill that gap. They have shown a complete lack of interest in doing so.
Now why did I make that thread about EA? Well since Blizzard's business model has thrown the arcade to the wolves then I think its safe to assume they don't few it profitable.
So the real question is not what can be done by the community alone, its what the community can do to change Blizzard's judgment about the arcade. That is to convince them that the arcade is an important part of their profit scheme.
As such it is a business question, not a mechanics or art assets or even player base question (not directly at least). Someone far higher up in management needs convincing.
And that means losses on a scale that could make such management concerned. EA has proven that the model that both of them are running has a good chance of ending in financial ruin.
But I copied that thread to the SC2 forums. Someone made a very going point. Activision-Blizzard will just brush it off with statements like "Oh we are not evil like EA" etc.
However either this or competition with valve has the highest chance of succeeding. Will it succeed? Most likely not. But the route I am going has a far higher chance than anything else anyone else has come up with.
As I said the deciding factor won't be anything that has to do with us (directly), it is going to be a business decision made at a far higher level.
0
Here is what I'm currently doing:
1. Making 2 maps concurrently. 2. Helping Cerebrate out with this Diplomacy of War 2 (DoW 2 on the arcade). his zerg hybrid structures are top notch, and I'm the one who taught him how to make them, and this was in the last 2 months. 3. I've been providing pointers/knowledge/assets to other map makers. 4. The Map Mentor Project (only ended up having one taker). 5. I've also taken steps for providing people with Actor Templates (the biggest thing holding the average person). They are all published on NA unlocked.
Here is a list: Amph_001 (this is my amphibious system along with a nice cargo ship) Hybrid_create_models_001 (these are some doodad crates that are used a lot in hybrids. I took then and added teamcolor to them). Hybrid_FlyingBoat_001 (This is both useful to make a large unit lift off and land on the ground or surface and dive under water). Hybrid_InfantrySquads_001 (This is the infantry squad system I am using in my current main project, it really helps with pathing overload issues). Hybrid_Naval_LargeHull_004 (This is a template for my large boat hull). Hybrid_Naval_MediumHull_003 (This is a template for my medium boat hull). Hybrid_Naval_SmallHull_003 (This is my small boat hull). Hybrid_Turrets_001 (This is a full mod including a template, all suitable WoL assets for turret cores, housing and barrels). WW2_Units_British_001 (this is a selection of hybrid art assets I am using in my map).
All of this was done after I returned to the scene.
I have been doing more than my part the whole time. Its just I know when I'm doing it that very little will come from it because of Blizzard. I've accepted that and kept working. I started the old premium project for other reasons besides players. I had some ideas I wanted to try and SC2 was still the best medium to do it in.
0
@FenixKissKerrigan: Go
Fair enough. I was just worried that people around here were actually taking him seriously. If that's not the case, then no problem.
0
Hey Eiviyn I've got a game for you to play:
Its called "Find the clickable URL link on the very first post".
You have been harassing people with honest issues for a long time now and I really hope that SC2Mapster's moderators have enough back bone to let you take a break for a while. This is you doing pure trolling and derailing the thread.
0
I live on Mars thank you very much.
0
Hey would you look at this. He is here in this thread which is about what's happened to EA and how we can learn lessons from it that might be able to stave off what's happened in SC2.
Instead you are making an accusation with no evidence that is just trying to stir up trouble. I wonder if SC2mapster's moderators are going to step in and get this guy to lay off his pure trolling. I have said nothing offensive and so far this guy hasn't said anything of any relevance to the thread.