Damnnnnnn bro Goku firebat is just awesome seriously. Why don't you make a god damn map outta those characters already? Goku firebat Arena or Goku Firebat Rpggggg
In my opinion, having nothing is better than pans of the landscape and lengthy death sequences (especially this). In EpicMafia they had nothing, it's more fun. Why? Because discussing things is me being active at least. Yes people are impatient, but you are oversimplifying the problem. I think they are MUCH more impatient when they are unable to play (aka all the slow fades, all the time we have to wait to hear gunshots, etc.). I'd rather cut directly to the chase (and back to me playing) than watch death sequences that (again) we have seen a million times. If you want to use starcraft 2 graphics to make it all pretty, at least it should be really fast.
On another note, people don't like night discussion times because most of the people don't get to play at all, they just sit and wait. At EpicMafia, the Mafia and I always decide who to kill within a minute or less. EpicMafia actually moves pretty fast because once the mafia all votes for someone, the night ends immediately. If doctors and such haven't picked someone to protect, etc. it just protects no one cause they were too slow (makes sense in real life I guess too). The same happens during the say, you can vote immediately and once everyone has voted the day immediately ends. Long day and night timers are fine if it's like this (although trolling can happen with ppl that drag it out).
It's good that you shortened everything. The sequences where all you do is wait can be really long because of huge LAG that somehow occurs in every game, it should been taken into account.
It's important to understand that the crowd of epicmafia is very different from the one playing starcraft 2. We are used to fast action, not waiting. Even if you like having long night sequences, trials, etc. just remember that the frigging pans of the landscape, death sequences and night time shooting where you do absolutely nothing are completely not needed.
Hi Wingednosering, I was a HUGE fan of this map in the past. I wrote this on hiveworkshop for you, but I don't think you ever read it. Here is my suggestions and review again:
This was a very fun game, I beat your last version the other day after countless tries.
What I generally thought:
This map is HARD until you find out the exact one path to winning the TD portion.
The psionic enchanters and getting ALL their power upgrades were very very very critical to winning.
The formation side was generally easy to beat (except for the bosses), but the tower side was difficult until you made the aforementioned upgrades.
There are only 3 good towers in the game. Machine turret (upgrading it further makes the tower WORSE?), that burning oil tower, and the antiarmor tower. For all the ground units in the game you only need to build just 2 towers to beat the entire thing. For the air, you just spam the machine turrets in all the other spots.
The Mobius research foundation has the best units aside from the robot guys. But it doesn't really matter cause only the tower D portion is sorta hard.
Recommendations:
1. REMOVE the tower defense portion! What makes this map interesting is the formation defense. Why do you even have the tower part? It just makes the map unfocused and is a giant waste of effort because the tower part and the formation part are completely independent. The first rule in product design is not to make a product that tries to be too many things.
2. Make it so we can put units in exact spots in the formations!
3. Make a "start wave" button. I don't see the point of having the timer. This goes for every TD.
3. Improve the formation defense part and make it better and/or longer. Again, this was the most fun part, focus on what makes your map unique.
4. Competitive mode perhaps (tower wars style) to improve popularity.
5. If you implement a competitive mode, then perhaps some kind of persistent XP system.
That's all I have to say, this map was immensely fun. Probably my favorite defense map right now. I wish you had cut out the TD part though, I really want to play with my units more.
Note that formation defense is a little like "Legion TD" from Wc3. I realize a similar map came out in Sc2 recently and was the most popular map. You could of been this, as your map had came out first, but I feel the issues above affected it too much.
There's an infrequent gamebreaking bug just after the "enter your name" phase. It says something like func failed to finish in time or something and the game stays in a black screen after name entry and never starts.
To top that off, I want to comment that... THE GAME IS TOO SLOW. Why are you wasting time with slow pans over landscape and excruciatingly long death sequences. I came to play mafia, not watch pre-canned death sequences a thousand times. The night sequence where you hear people getting killed is ALSO TOO SLOW. Dear god make them faster, Why do I even have to hear the gun shots? If you need to leave them in, can you at least speed up the sequence to less than 8 seconds? Right now it took 2 minutes one time for the dust to settle. And that's 2 minutes a night.
One of the key rules of replayable game design is never to make your players wait with nothing to do. Also, maybe give the dead players something to do? Persistent betting maybe?
Also, make the default discussion, night, and trial times shorter. These things are always shortened in every game, might as well make it default.
You have a good rendition of actual Mafia here, but you dearly need to speed things up since this game is supposed to be highly replayable.
PS: Put in the help file how to write your last will, over half the people each game have no idea how to do it.
Well from my experience, making two identically sized areas that can be connect with anthills above and below was very simple.
Yes, I completely populated the belowground with destructible rocks. In fact, I even randomized it into 2 types, one harder to break , another one easier (this made it so natural tunnels would be formed from paths of least resistance), and had the ants effectively chop the rocks like trees for resource. So when the rock was being "mined" it lost health, and the ant brought back the resource to some kind of stock pile (the queen in my case). This way ant colonies will naturally expand underground as the game progresses due to ants continually mining the rocks. It also gave the illusion that the colony was "alive" as ants were continually working.
I only needed a couple triggers, no JASS. In Wc3 I made the anthills buildable waygates. When it detected that a hill was made aboveground, it would instantly destroy the rocks at the corresponding belowground point, create a "hole to the surface" there (also a waygate) and then connect the two gates. The same worked in vice versa of course. Note that whenever there was an unbuildable/unpathable area in the aboveground (such as a lake or river), I created an identical unbuildable/unpathable area in the below ground of the same size that made sense in context with the aboveground area (such as water or a bottomless chasm or something). This way you couldn't build a hole to the surface under something that you couldn't have an anthill appear on top of.
What's fun is that you can also populate the below ground with different kinds of hazards, collapse anthills (by attacking them) to prevent above/belowground access and of course, launch surprise attacks by digging belowground to enemy territory. Supply lines are still be vulnerable if you build an anthilI next to a food source. This is because enemies can attack the line underground. They can either tunnel to it, or enter your anthill itself and just attack workers attempting to ferry the stuff back. I prevented early digging to enemy territory via having many more stronger rocks tend to spawn at the centre of the map dividing the two colonies. Numerous hazards in the above ground in early game also prevented players from trying to reach the other side of the map in the beginning with their queen and creating their colony right next to the opposing team's colony. Of course this last point isn't necessary if your queen is AI controlled.
Griefing can be stopped by designating one yellow ant player to have "queen" like power, in that he can limit or revoke control to a griefing player if necessary, or by implementing a vote system that does the same.
I made a nearly complete version of Sim Ant in Wc3 a while back. It would be interesting if you created two identically sized areas where one is above and below ground. That way, when you create an ant hill, it actually goes to a corresponding spot underground.
Also, don't you think that 1v1 would get boring pretty fast? You should think about having something like 3 yellow ants per team who work together.
Making a TD that's team based. WHAT IS THE POINT? It makes the game harder to balance, and you get hundreds of failed games because of allies.
Making a timer between rounds, WHAT IS THE POINT? It just rushes me, why not give me a button to start? Why not have the goal of the game be to finish it the fastest? Then I would be motivated to press the button as fast as I can anyways, or stack multiple levels together.
Having a stylish delay before creeps come out each level, gets annoying when you have like 50 levels and you're waiting and waiting...
Giving me 100% sell, if you do this, I will just sell all my towers every round and build the exact counter to the level. This one is debatable though, because if you give me other reasons to not sell all my towers every round, I would like 100% sell very much to fix mistakes I would likely make.
Invisible levels, WHY? You just make me spend 50 gold on ONE detector tower to fight otherwise regular creeps. A similar situation for air levels.
Making 50 levels of every tower that only increases damage. God that is boring.
Hi there, I've played a billion games of the latest version of Smashcraft with my bro, and here's our opinion to add to this mess:
Hawk
- She's very good, probably TOO good... when covered by teammates
- She has major advantage in Hades, this is because (I don't know if this is a glitch our not), she CAN shoot up hills with one ability or another.
Sarina
- We think she's still OP even with the nerfs. Yeah you could do more DPS with 3 DPS characters, but consider the fact that it is pretty easy to drag games out through running a lot (think about how long it takes to kill that last guy who runs everytime). This means Sarina ultimately wins.
- Her damage over time moves (normal attack and DOT) mean that she is damaging you even when she isn't near you. This again compounded with the healing issue makes her twice as bad over time.
Level: Hades
- We feel this level is imbalanced. Psions AND Hawk (for some reason) can shoot up cliffs for some major damage. There are way too many cliffs and small ramp/cliff areas. Rush is totally gimped in this map (psionic pull can't shoot up/down cliffs like other moves in the map).
- All ranged units have advantage more or less because of the heavy use of ramps/cliffs
General Recommendations
- make some kind of level select or balance the maps better, Hades is too one-sided to some heroes and I have no idea when it's going to show up
- make somekind of persistent XP system. This would give a purpose to all these small battles and perhaps motivate new people to stay 5 rounds (completion XP bonus, most damage bonus, etc.)
- the XP system would allow for an optional autoteam balance system (although you can no longer stomp newbies with your friends if you do this...), this system alone would probably cut the amount of leavers in half
- have round statistics (and perhaps XP handouts based off this) such as most damage, most heals, assists, most kills
- make the fact that the 5 rounds exist AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE, because people usually leave quick after the first
Random Suggestion
- at the end game when it announces whether you won or lost, make the screen spin like in FFtactics and have it tally your achievements haha
Why bother using behaviours? It just makes things more complicated, all you have to do is create multiple weapons in the data editor and make sure that all those weapons don't use "linked cooldowns" and don't only fire at the attacked unit and are set to be able to fire while moving.
The key part to making all the weapons fire at maximum efficiency is to make sure that only one of the weapons possible on a single unit has "can initiate attack". If there is more than one weapon on a unit than has can initiate attack then the unit will get confused on which weapon is initiating and usually only the fastest firing weapon will fire.
Turrets don't matter, you can use the free rotate turret with any number of weapons on the same unit. All that matters is the "can initiate attack" flag.
I take it you want to make battle tanks. All you would have to do is have a default weapon that has "can initiate attack" on it, and all the other weapons added through items should not have this flag checked.
The only thing about using this is that when you right click on an enemy, the unit will actually focus all its weapons on that enemy before attacking randomly again. This is actually a plus in my opinion because pheonix fire was never targetable like this.
0
Damnnnnnn bro Goku firebat is just awesome seriously. Why don't you make a god damn map outta those characters already? Goku firebat Arena or Goku Firebat Rpggggg
0
In my opinion, having nothing is better than pans of the landscape and lengthy death sequences (especially this). In EpicMafia they had nothing, it's more fun. Why? Because discussing things is me being active at least. Yes people are impatient, but you are oversimplifying the problem. I think they are MUCH more impatient when they are unable to play (aka all the slow fades, all the time we have to wait to hear gunshots, etc.). I'd rather cut directly to the chase (and back to me playing) than watch death sequences that (again) we have seen a million times. If you want to use starcraft 2 graphics to make it all pretty, at least it should be really fast.
On another note, people don't like night discussion times because most of the people don't get to play at all, they just sit and wait. At EpicMafia, the Mafia and I always decide who to kill within a minute or less. EpicMafia actually moves pretty fast because once the mafia all votes for someone, the night ends immediately. If doctors and such haven't picked someone to protect, etc. it just protects no one cause they were too slow (makes sense in real life I guess too). The same happens during the say, you can vote immediately and once everyone has voted the day immediately ends. Long day and night timers are fine if it's like this (although trolling can happen with ppl that drag it out).
0
It's good that you shortened everything. The sequences where all you do is wait can be really long because of huge LAG that somehow occurs in every game, it should been taken into account.
It's important to understand that the crowd of epicmafia is very different from the one playing starcraft 2. We are used to fast action, not waiting. Even if you like having long night sequences, trials, etc. just remember that the frigging pans of the landscape, death sequences and night time shooting where you do absolutely nothing are completely not needed.
0
Hi Wingednosering, I was a HUGE fan of this map in the past. I wrote this on hiveworkshop for you, but I don't think you ever read it. Here is my suggestions and review again:
This was a very fun game, I beat your last version the other day after countless tries.
What I generally thought:
This map is HARD until you find out the exact one path to winning the TD portion.
The psionic enchanters and getting ALL their power upgrades were very very very critical to winning.
The formation side was generally easy to beat (except for the bosses), but the tower side was difficult until you made the aforementioned upgrades.
There are only 3 good towers in the game. Machine turret (upgrading it further makes the tower WORSE?), that burning oil tower, and the antiarmor tower. For all the ground units in the game you only need to build just 2 towers to beat the entire thing. For the air, you just spam the machine turrets in all the other spots.
The Mobius research foundation has the best units aside from the robot guys. But it doesn't really matter cause only the tower D portion is sorta hard.
Recommendations:
1. REMOVE the tower defense portion! What makes this map interesting is the formation defense. Why do you even have the tower part? It just makes the map unfocused and is a giant waste of effort because the tower part and the formation part are completely independent. The first rule in product design is not to make a product that tries to be too many things.
2. Make it so we can put units in exact spots in the formations!
3. Make a "start wave" button. I don't see the point of having the timer. This goes for every TD.
3. Improve the formation defense part and make it better and/or longer. Again, this was the most fun part, focus on what makes your map unique.
4. Competitive mode perhaps (tower wars style) to improve popularity.
5. If you implement a competitive mode, then perhaps some kind of persistent XP system.
That's all I have to say, this map was immensely fun. Probably my favorite defense map right now. I wish you had cut out the TD part though, I really want to play with my units more.
Note that formation defense is a little like "Legion TD" from Wc3. I realize a similar map came out in Sc2 recently and was the most popular map. You could of been this, as your map had came out first, but I feel the issues above affected it too much.
0
There's an infrequent gamebreaking bug just after the "enter your name" phase. It says something like func failed to finish in time or something and the game stays in a black screen after name entry and never starts.
To top that off, I want to comment that... THE GAME IS TOO SLOW. Why are you wasting time with slow pans over landscape and excruciatingly long death sequences. I came to play mafia, not watch pre-canned death sequences a thousand times. The night sequence where you hear people getting killed is ALSO TOO SLOW. Dear god make them faster, Why do I even have to hear the gun shots? If you need to leave them in, can you at least speed up the sequence to less than 8 seconds? Right now it took 2 minutes one time for the dust to settle. And that's 2 minutes a night.
One of the key rules of replayable game design is never to make your players wait with nothing to do. Also, maybe give the dead players something to do? Persistent betting maybe?
Also, make the default discussion, night, and trial times shorter. These things are always shortened in every game, might as well make it default.
You have a good rendition of actual Mafia here, but you dearly need to speed things up since this game is supposed to be highly replayable.
PS: Put in the help file how to write your last will, over half the people each game have no idea how to do it.
0
Well from my experience, making two identically sized areas that can be connect with anthills above and below was very simple.
Yes, I completely populated the belowground with destructible rocks. In fact, I even randomized it into 2 types, one harder to break , another one easier (this made it so natural tunnels would be formed from paths of least resistance), and had the ants effectively chop the rocks like trees for resource. So when the rock was being "mined" it lost health, and the ant brought back the resource to some kind of stock pile (the queen in my case). This way ant colonies will naturally expand underground as the game progresses due to ants continually mining the rocks. It also gave the illusion that the colony was "alive" as ants were continually working.
I only needed a couple triggers, no JASS. In Wc3 I made the anthills buildable waygates. When it detected that a hill was made aboveground, it would instantly destroy the rocks at the corresponding belowground point, create a "hole to the surface" there (also a waygate) and then connect the two gates. The same worked in vice versa of course. Note that whenever there was an unbuildable/unpathable area in the aboveground (such as a lake or river), I created an identical unbuildable/unpathable area in the below ground of the same size that made sense in context with the aboveground area (such as water or a bottomless chasm or something). This way you couldn't build a hole to the surface under something that you couldn't have an anthill appear on top of.
What's fun is that you can also populate the below ground with different kinds of hazards, collapse anthills (by attacking them) to prevent above/belowground access and of course, launch surprise attacks by digging belowground to enemy territory. Supply lines are still be vulnerable if you build an anthilI next to a food source. This is because enemies can attack the line underground. They can either tunnel to it, or enter your anthill itself and just attack workers attempting to ferry the stuff back. I prevented early digging to enemy territory via having many more stronger rocks tend to spawn at the centre of the map dividing the two colonies. Numerous hazards in the above ground in early game also prevented players from trying to reach the other side of the map in the beginning with their queen and creating their colony right next to the opposing team's colony. Of course this last point isn't necessary if your queen is AI controlled.
Griefing can be stopped by designating one yellow ant player to have "queen" like power, in that he can limit or revoke control to a griefing player if necessary, or by implementing a vote system that does the same.
0
@voodude2008: Go
I made a nearly complete version of Sim Ant in Wc3 a while back. It would be interesting if you created two identically sized areas where one is above and below ground. That way, when you create an ant hill, it actually goes to a corresponding spot underground.
Also, don't you think that 1v1 would get boring pretty fast? You should think about having something like 3 yellow ants per team who work together.
0
This game is just about me getting my ass kicked. It's too hard, even with arranged teams.
0
Making a TD that's team based. WHAT IS THE POINT? It makes the game harder to balance, and you get hundreds of failed games because of allies.
Making a timer between rounds, WHAT IS THE POINT? It just rushes me, why not give me a button to start? Why not have the goal of the game be to finish it the fastest? Then I would be motivated to press the button as fast as I can anyways, or stack multiple levels together.
Having a stylish delay before creeps come out each level, gets annoying when you have like 50 levels and you're waiting and waiting...
Giving me 100% sell, if you do this, I will just sell all my towers every round and build the exact counter to the level. This one is debatable though, because if you give me other reasons to not sell all my towers every round, I would like 100% sell very much to fix mistakes I would likely make.
Invisible levels, WHY? You just make me spend 50 gold on ONE detector tower to fight otherwise regular creeps. A similar situation for air levels.
Making 50 levels of every tower that only increases damage. God that is boring.
0
:( looks like a great map, but I can't play it cause I'm in the US :((((
0
This is absolutely amazing, I applaud your planning and design skills.
0
Hi there, I've played a billion games of the latest version of Smashcraft with my bro, and here's our opinion to add to this mess:
Hawk - She's very good, probably TOO good... when covered by teammates - She has major advantage in Hades, this is because (I don't know if this is a glitch our not), she CAN shoot up hills with one ability or another.
Sarina - We think she's still OP even with the nerfs. Yeah you could do more DPS with 3 DPS characters, but consider the fact that it is pretty easy to drag games out through running a lot (think about how long it takes to kill that last guy who runs everytime). This means Sarina ultimately wins. - Her damage over time moves (normal attack and DOT) mean that she is damaging you even when she isn't near you. This again compounded with the healing issue makes her twice as bad over time.
Level: Hades - We feel this level is imbalanced. Psions AND Hawk (for some reason) can shoot up cliffs for some major damage. There are way too many cliffs and small ramp/cliff areas. Rush is totally gimped in this map (psionic pull can't shoot up/down cliffs like other moves in the map). - All ranged units have advantage more or less because of the heavy use of ramps/cliffs
General Recommendations - make some kind of level select or balance the maps better, Hades is too one-sided to some heroes and I have no idea when it's going to show up - make somekind of persistent XP system. This would give a purpose to all these small battles and perhaps motivate new people to stay 5 rounds (completion XP bonus, most damage bonus, etc.) - the XP system would allow for an optional autoteam balance system (although you can no longer stomp newbies with your friends if you do this...), this system alone would probably cut the amount of leavers in half - have round statistics (and perhaps XP handouts based off this) such as most damage, most heals, assists, most kills - make the fact that the 5 rounds exist AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE, because people usually leave quick after the first
Random Suggestion - at the end game when it announces whether you won or lost, make the screen spin like in FFtactics and have it tally your achievements haha
0
Complexity isn't subjective. All things equal, a system with one unit is less complex than a system with two.
In any case, I suppose you'll have to find either a workaround or another way if you want to cancel the targeting effect.
0
Why bother using behaviours? It just makes things more complicated, all you have to do is create multiple weapons in the data editor and make sure that all those weapons don't use "linked cooldowns" and don't only fire at the attacked unit and are set to be able to fire while moving.
The key part to making all the weapons fire at maximum efficiency is to make sure that only one of the weapons possible on a single unit has "can initiate attack". If there is more than one weapon on a unit than has can initiate attack then the unit will get confused on which weapon is initiating and usually only the fastest firing weapon will fire.
Turrets don't matter, you can use the free rotate turret with any number of weapons on the same unit. All that matters is the "can initiate attack" flag.
I take it you want to make battle tanks. All you would have to do is have a default weapon that has "can initiate attack" on it, and all the other weapons added through items should not have this flag checked.
The only thing about using this is that when you right click on an enemy, the unit will actually focus all its weapons on that enemy before attacking randomly again. This is actually a plus in my opinion because pheonix fire was never targetable like this.