Eve has never been "too weak" and never really been "OP"
shes OP when fed by noobs who dont use see invis potions. Yes she requires more practice and skill then your average hero. RIOT adjusts heros because well. They do it for the noobs.
Your argument is mute.
If somebody is standing running in circles getting healed.... I suggest you dont go near them.....
The best advice ever given to me by a game designer much much more experienced than I:
"Your customer is usually wrong. The first mistake you can do is give in too much to the vocal minority".
Not to be a dick or anything, just I play my own game a LOT to get a feel for the overall balance of things, from all perspectives, if I see a reason to nerf/buff something I'll do it. If I see lots of complaints about X or Y then I'll look into it, but I'm still not going to change it if it doesn't need changing.
The best advice ever given to me by a game designer much much more experienced than I:
"Your customer is usually wrong. The first mistake you can do is give in too much to the vocal minority".
I just cant resist responding when people complain about stuff being OP and its only been playable for a couple of days. I play alot of MOBA's so its pretty common that I need to tell noobs to L2Play.
Though Im generally a fan of being able to "kill/destroy" summoned units that do stuff such as "heal".
From the pace of the game in the video. Healing looks like it may just be extremely annoying lol.
It is in most MOBA's haha
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2 supports on 1 team is something worth looking into. Sarina and Dex are extremely difficult to kill at the moment when they are both healing each other and using Sarina's range to balance our Dex's immobility. the game can last a while, but they are difficult to kill even in a 2v3 with few mistakes made. I can only think of a one or two heroes that would be able to give this combo a problem (hawk and possibly rush) My roommate and I have been messing around w/ this for a while and we are fairly confident that something needs to be done. We just aren't sure what.
[edit] otherwise, this is a fantastic game. Really glad you put the time into making something like this. You've clearly put a lot of work into the little details which is awesome.
Also, theres a bug where revolver can get people stuck inside certain objects using fissure (the industrial map was the one I saw it on, i forgot the name) and dodge cant get you out.
true, but they have the time. Just give it a look. We could just be playing bad people, but I clearly remember people doing their combos correctly and the other team not really being able to do much about us regardless (with and without a support of their own) Ezzerat kind of messes things up, but spray +pray from sarina can mess up his stealthing abilities. due to her range.
Also, The whole "blind pick" thing kinda bugs me. Do you have any plans for the character select screen? Perhaps different game modes for character selection? ie - blind pick, drafts, some ability to repick and then have a "start" button or something to finalize picks? I think the latter would be especially useful for public games because I've heard a lot of people complaining about not having a support on their team. With a "start" function coupled with the ability to repick would allow people to prevent such an occurrence (a bit easier than now)
Hi there, I've played a billion games of the latest version of Smashcraft with my bro, and here's our opinion to add to this mess:
Hawk
- She's very good, probably TOO good... when covered by teammates
- She has major advantage in Hades, this is because (I don't know if this is a glitch our not), she CAN shoot up hills with one ability or another.
Sarina
- We think she's still OP even with the nerfs. Yeah you could do more DPS with 3 DPS characters, but consider the fact that it is pretty easy to drag games out through running a lot (think about how long it takes to kill that last guy who runs everytime). This means Sarina ultimately wins.
- Her damage over time moves (normal attack and DOT) mean that she is damaging you even when she isn't near you. This again compounded with the healing issue makes her twice as bad over time.
Level: Hades
- We feel this level is imbalanced. Psions AND Hawk (for some reason) can shoot up cliffs for some major damage. There are way too many cliffs and small ramp/cliff areas. Rush is totally gimped in this map (psionic pull can't shoot up/down cliffs like other moves in the map).
- All ranged units have advantage more or less because of the heavy use of ramps/cliffs
General Recommendations
- make some kind of level select or balance the maps better, Hades is too one-sided to some heroes and I have no idea when it's going to show up
- make somekind of persistent XP system. This would give a purpose to all these small battles and perhaps motivate new people to stay 5 rounds (completion XP bonus, most damage bonus, etc.)
- the XP system would allow for an optional autoteam balance system (although you can no longer stomp newbies with your friends if you do this...), this system alone would probably cut the amount of leavers in half
- have round statistics (and perhaps XP handouts based off this) such as most damage, most heals, assists, most kills
- make the fact that the 5 rounds exist AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE, because people usually leave quick after the first
Random Suggestion
- at the end game when it announces whether you won or lost, make the screen spin like in FFtactics and have it tally your achievements haha
cool, thanks for answering my responses mephs
i have a couple of questions uhh
1. will you add a cinematic to the beginning, and perhaps a little story?
2. will you add stories for all the characters?
3. which character is coming next, aegis or the firebat ? >:)
4. will we be having more archetypes, or we will just have the four roles (guardian, assault, psion, support)
5. what is the percentage/flat amount of bonus damage counter classes get against eachother?
6. will there be a solution for only four maps ;;
7. what is an example of an ex move? i am looking forward to those (other than rush's speed boost)
8. is rush's tremor and psychic grab supposed to deal damage? i don't see that in the tooltips
9. is it possible to grey out some abilities on the right time and kind of.. make it a little clearer on tooltips? i don't remember hawk's stealth mentioning she could only stealth if she didn't engage in combat for 8 seconds, or that sarina's burst of life required 25 charges (it looks still available at 15 or 5, which is kind of confusing, would be helpful if it was greyed)
lol, sorry for the mass of questions, thanks for reading this
bugs and feedback will be supplied (if it is any helpful to you D:)
oh yes, one more comment, to EchoedRequirer (or something)
Hawk's illusions are set to control group 2 and 3, and hawk and her illusions is control group 4. hope that.. kind of solves your illusion problem, i guess
@SoulCarver: damnit i hate eve nobody buys oracles and then they run straight in, with kass or something gahhh and then eve just owns them
EDIT: I think i found a bug.
Recently, i played on Valk Summit, and i tried to use Rush's psionic pull across the river, but the river just blocks it? Is this intended?
Another comment: Is ezzerat supposed to chain stun? I dropped from full health to 0, and i couldn't do anything.
1. will you add a cinematic to the beginning, and perhaps a little story?
??? No cinematic. Here's the story: Bunch of doodz go into an arena and beat the shit out of each other.
Quote:
2. will you add stories for all the characters?
Yes. Nothing too lore heavy. This is a fighter-esque game not the next installment of Harry Potter.
Quote:
3. which character is coming next, aegis or the firebat ? >:)
Pyro will be out in about 5 minutes.
Quote:
4. will we be having more archetypes, or we will just have the four roles (guardian, assault, psion, support)
Sticking to these 4 arch
Quote:
5. what is the percentage/flat amount of bonus damage counter classes get against eachother?
20% damage bonus towards their counter class. There's no penalty vice versa.
Quote:
6. will there be a solution for only four maps ;;
Until blizzard supports map linking online no.
Quote:
7. what is an example of an ex move? i am looking forward to those (other than rush's speed boost)
A couple examples of EX special.
Revolver: Sunder becomes Earthquake, still spawns a fissure but the stun lasts 3 seconds (instead of 2) and does more damage.
Rush: Psionic Grip becomes Death's Grasp, does more damage and roots instead of snares for 5 seconds.
Ezzerat: Detonation: Hakai (the snaring one) does more damage and roots instead of snares
Ace: All grenades become "Photon Grenade" which applies all 3 debuffs in the blast radius
Alseir: Glacial Strike becomes Cryoblast, a stronger version which roots instead of snares
Onyx: Lava Spire becomes Cataclysm, a larger radius version that stuns for 4 seconds instead of 2.
Dex: Drones become "Summon SABRE", summoning his pet mechanical cat to fight for 10 seconds. The tiger has a charge, cleave, and stun effect.
Sarina: Burst of Life becomes Burst of Revival, an instant cast version which heals for twice as much.
Hawk: Snipe shots become "Death's Gaze", a 0.5s cast version of lethal shot
Pyro: Shattering Shell becomes "Hell Rain", an AOE version thats hits all targets in the AOE with the shattering shell effect.
Quote:
8. is rush's tremor and psychic grab supposed to deal damage? i don't see that in the tooltips
They both do like 20 damage or so.
Quote:
9. is it possible to grey out some abilities on the right time and kind of.. make it a little clearer on tooltips? i don't remember hawk's stealth mentioning she could only stealth if she didn't engage in combat for 8 seconds, or that sarina's burst of life required 25 charges (it looks still available at 15 or 5, which is kind of confusing, would be helpful if it was greyed)
All stealth effects require you to leave combat for 8 seconds. That means no attacking or being attacked for 8sec.
Quote:
EDIT: I think i found a bug. Recently, i played on Valk Summit, and i tried to use Rush's psionic pull across the river, but the river just blocks it? Is this intended? Another comment: Is ezzerat supposed to chain stun? I dropped from full health to 0, and i couldn't do anything.
He can't pull through unpathable terrain. Also Ezzerat can potentially stunlock you to death. Use your escapes wisely.
cool, thanks for answering questions meph, i really appreciate it. not sure if you do lol
what's the crossed out ex specials? will report with pyro feedback. also one issue:
on industrial, at the bottom left theres a stray box that you can't really see, and it will block rush's psionic grip, while i do believe that the top right doesn't have a box like that that blocks rush's grip so its kind of advantageous to be on the bottom left
btw, i believe rush's tooltips for tremor and grab is still five seconds each
EDIT 2: nvm, but dex's shield is still 200
EDIT: tried out pyro, you can't ever land his F, because his concussive shell stun is just not long enough
about that , i think his options are kind of low
4 out of 10 do not have stuns (hawk, ace, dex, sarina)
tried it on rush and rush will blink out. i will continue trying this though and ill report more
more: nearly impossible to land a stun on revolver due to ranged stun,
onyx ranged stun
EDIT: just tried with my partner DeviLisk and you can indeed dodge the ultimate even with counterstun pretty easily
we tried it hugging, and you always get hit (but most stuns are not.. hugging, and rush is exclusive cause he can blink out)
so we tried it a bit of a distance apart, and with dodge, i was able to successfully dodge it, pretty easily too.
also, found a bug: if everyone on the other team leaves when the game is showing off the stage, it will finish, but it will crazy bug out and repeat everything twice, vs screen, rebel 1, rebel 1, etc.
also, .. maybe another bug: if you use forgebond, it says disable all offensive abilities, but it does.. not.
Eve has never been "too weak" and never really been "OP"
shes OP when fed by noobs who dont use see invis potions. Yes she requires more practice and skill then your average hero. RIOT adjusts heros because well. They do it for the noobs.
Your argument is mute.
If somebody is standing running in circles getting healed.... I suggest you dont go near them.....
clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
Well Mephs, it is an amazing game and very fun, I notice that the "hit effects" only apply to doodads on some of the skill shots but not all of them. For example, with Revolver you can clearly see what your shots can and cant go through cause the hit effect applies to the doodads. I don't see that with Hawk, maybe I'm just blind. I know you can see it with ace and rush though.
Also, the crater thing I was talking about earlier, I think it's Onyx's AOE bomb thing, the crater it leaves behind blocks a lot of the skill shots for some reason.
I'm sticking with my "Dex is OP" vote till a further date, counter class dmg might change it up, but again you'd have to have a counter class on your team which is more luck since you don't know what they are.
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Also, the crater thing I was talking about earlier, I think it's Onyx's AOE bomb thing, the crater it leaves behind blocks a lot of the skill shots for some reason.
No, it doesn't, because its not even an object.
Also Forgebond doesn't slow/disable you because i changed it. Just wasn't a useful skill the way I had it.
Keep in mind this game is in BETA, its been out FIVE DAYS, games like DOTA, have been out for YEARS, and are STILL NOT BALANCED.
Right now after rigorous playtesting I can conclude only one thing needs fixing:
-Rush: Probably the biggest issue right now is the fact his pull is completely unstoppable if you are hit with it. You can't reactively escape the pull if it hits, because it is un-escapable. I'm aiming to fix this relatively soon and make it so escapes break the pull if you pop it before the actual force effect takes place.
@EchoedRequiem: Go
Eve has never been "too weak" and never really been "OP"
shes OP when fed by noobs who dont use see invis potions. Yes she requires more practice and skill then your average hero. RIOT adjusts heros because well. They do it for the noobs.
Your argument is mute.
If somebody is standing running in circles getting healed.... I suggest you dont go near them.....
@SouLCarveRR: Go
The best advice ever given to me by a game designer much much more experienced than I:
"Your customer is usually wrong. The first mistake you can do is give in too much to the vocal minority".
Not to be a dick or anything, just I play my own game a LOT to get a feel for the overall balance of things, from all perspectives, if I see a reason to nerf/buff something I'll do it. If I see lots of complaints about X or Y then I'll look into it, but I'm still not going to change it if it doesn't need changing.
I just cant resist responding when people complain about stuff being OP and its only been playable for a couple of days. I play alot of MOBA's so its pretty common that I need to tell noobs to L2Play.
Though Im generally a fan of being able to "kill/destroy" summoned units that do stuff such as "heal".
From the pace of the game in the video. Healing looks like it may just be extremely annoying lol.
It is in most MOBA's haha
2 supports on 1 team is something worth looking into. Sarina and Dex are extremely difficult to kill at the moment when they are both healing each other and using Sarina's range to balance our Dex's immobility. the game can last a while, but they are difficult to kill even in a 2v3 with few mistakes made. I can only think of a one or two heroes that would be able to give this combo a problem (hawk and possibly rush) My roommate and I have been messing around w/ this for a while and we are fairly confident that something needs to be done. We just aren't sure what.
[edit] otherwise, this is a fantastic game. Really glad you put the time into making something like this. You've clearly put a lot of work into the little details which is awesome.
Also, theres a bug where revolver can get people stuck inside certain objects using fissure (the industrial map was the one I saw it on, i forgot the name) and dodge cant get you out.
@Seegan: Go
I'm not so sure about double support. It'd take forever to kill things.
@Mephs: Go
true, but they have the time. Just give it a look. We could just be playing bad people, but I clearly remember people doing their combos correctly and the other team not really being able to do much about us regardless (with and without a support of their own) Ezzerat kind of messes things up, but spray +pray from sarina can mess up his stealthing abilities. due to her range.
Also, The whole "blind pick" thing kinda bugs me. Do you have any plans for the character select screen? Perhaps different game modes for character selection? ie - blind pick, drafts, some ability to repick and then have a "start" button or something to finalize picks? I think the latter would be especially useful for public games because I've heard a lot of people complaining about not having a support on their team. With a "start" function coupled with the ability to repick would allow people to prevent such an occurrence (a bit easier than now)
Hi there, I've played a billion games of the latest version of Smashcraft with my bro, and here's our opinion to add to this mess:
Hawk - She's very good, probably TOO good... when covered by teammates - She has major advantage in Hades, this is because (I don't know if this is a glitch our not), she CAN shoot up hills with one ability or another.
Sarina - We think she's still OP even with the nerfs. Yeah you could do more DPS with 3 DPS characters, but consider the fact that it is pretty easy to drag games out through running a lot (think about how long it takes to kill that last guy who runs everytime). This means Sarina ultimately wins. - Her damage over time moves (normal attack and DOT) mean that she is damaging you even when she isn't near you. This again compounded with the healing issue makes her twice as bad over time.
Level: Hades - We feel this level is imbalanced. Psions AND Hawk (for some reason) can shoot up cliffs for some major damage. There are way too many cliffs and small ramp/cliff areas. Rush is totally gimped in this map (psionic pull can't shoot up/down cliffs like other moves in the map). - All ranged units have advantage more or less because of the heavy use of ramps/cliffs
General Recommendations - make some kind of level select or balance the maps better, Hades is too one-sided to some heroes and I have no idea when it's going to show up - make somekind of persistent XP system. This would give a purpose to all these small battles and perhaps motivate new people to stay 5 rounds (completion XP bonus, most damage bonus, etc.) - the XP system would allow for an optional autoteam balance system (although you can no longer stomp newbies with your friends if you do this...), this system alone would probably cut the amount of leavers in half - have round statistics (and perhaps XP handouts based off this) such as most damage, most heals, assists, most kills - make the fact that the 5 rounds exist AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE, because people usually leave quick after the first
Random Suggestion - at the end game when it announces whether you won or lost, make the screen spin like in FFtactics and have it tally your achievements haha
not just hades, but the map with the lake in the center, psions can shoot across the lake and nobody else can. They can camp fairly easily.
Rematch option would be dope, btw.
[edit] and they don't just leave after the first round...the first death sometimes as well.
Cannot wait...for blizz to put in channels. Smashcraft Channel gogogo.
cool, thanks for answering my responses mephs i have a couple of questions uhh
1. will you add a cinematic to the beginning, and perhaps a little story?
2. will you add stories for all the characters?
3. which character is coming next, aegis or the firebat ? >:)
4. will we be having more archetypes, or we will just have the four roles (guardian, assault, psion, support)
5. what is the percentage/flat amount of bonus damage counter classes get against eachother?
6. will there be a solution for only four maps ;;
7. what is an example of an ex move? i am looking forward to those (other than rush's speed boost)
8. is rush's tremor and psychic grab supposed to deal damage? i don't see that in the tooltips
9. is it possible to grey out some abilities on the right time and kind of.. make it a little clearer on tooltips? i don't remember hawk's stealth mentioning she could only stealth if she didn't engage in combat for 8 seconds, or that sarina's burst of life required 25 charges (it looks still available at 15 or 5, which is kind of confusing, would be helpful if it was greyed)
lol, sorry for the mass of questions, thanks for reading this bugs and feedback will be supplied (if it is any helpful to you D:)
oh yes, one more comment, to EchoedRequirer (or something) Hawk's illusions are set to control group 2 and 3, and hawk and her illusions is control group 4. hope that.. kind of solves your illusion problem, i guess
@SoulCarver: damnit i hate eve nobody buys oracles and then they run straight in, with kass or something gahhh and then eve just owns them
EDIT: I think i found a bug. Recently, i played on Valk Summit, and i tried to use Rush's psionic pull across the river, but the river just blocks it? Is this intended? Another comment: Is ezzerat supposed to chain stun? I dropped from full health to 0, and i couldn't do anything.
??? No cinematic. Here's the story: Bunch of doodz go into an arena and beat the shit out of each other.
Yes. Nothing too lore heavy. This is a fighter-esque game not the next installment of Harry Potter.
Pyro will be out in about 5 minutes.
Sticking to these 4 arch
20% damage bonus towards their counter class. There's no penalty vice versa.
Until blizzard supports map linking online no.
A couple examples of EX special.
Revolver: Sunder becomes Earthquake, still spawns a fissure but the stun lasts 3 seconds (instead of 2) and does more damage.
Rush: Psionic Grip becomes Death's Grasp, does more damage and roots instead of snares for 5 seconds.
Ezzerat: Detonation: Hakai (the snaring one) does more damage and roots instead of snares
Ace: All grenades become "Photon Grenade" which applies all 3 debuffs in the blast radius
Alseir: Glacial Strike becomes Cryoblast, a stronger version which roots instead of snares
Onyx: Lava Spire becomes Cataclysm, a larger radius version that stuns for 4 seconds instead of 2.
Dex: Drones become "Summon SABRE", summoning his pet mechanical cat to fight for 10 seconds. The tiger has a charge, cleave, and stun effect.
Sarina: Burst of Life becomes Burst of Revival, an instant cast version which heals for twice as much. Hawk: Snipe shots become "Death's Gaze", a 0.5s cast version of lethal shot
Pyro: Shattering Shell becomes "Hell Rain", an AOE version thats hits all targets in the AOE with the shattering shell effect.
They both do like 20 damage or so.
All stealth effects require you to leave combat for 8 seconds. That means no attacking or being attacked for 8sec.
He can't pull through unpathable terrain. Also Ezzerat can potentially stunlock you to death. Use your escapes wisely.
cool, thanks for answering questions meph, i really appreciate it. not sure if you do lol what's the crossed out ex specials? will report with pyro feedback. also one issue:
on industrial, at the bottom left theres a stray box that you can't really see, and it will block rush's psionic grip, while i do believe that the top right doesn't have a box like that that blocks rush's grip so its kind of advantageous to be on the bottom left
btw, i believe rush's tooltips for tremor and grab is still five seconds each EDIT 2: nvm, but dex's shield is still 200
EDIT: tried out pyro, you can't ever land his F, because his concussive shell stun is just not long enough
@Gutenloqk: Go
Use it with the counterstun.
@Mephs: Go
about that , i think his options are kind of low 4 out of 10 do not have stuns (hawk, ace, dex, sarina) tried it on rush and rush will blink out. i will continue trying this though and ill report more more: nearly impossible to land a stun on revolver due to ranged stun, onyx ranged stun
EDIT: just tried with my partner DeviLisk and you can indeed dodge the ultimate even with counterstun pretty easily
we tried it hugging, and you always get hit (but most stuns are not.. hugging, and rush is exclusive cause he can blink out)
so we tried it a bit of a distance apart, and with dodge, i was able to successfully dodge it, pretty easily too.
also, found a bug: if everyone on the other team leaves when the game is showing off the stage, it will finish, but it will crazy bug out and repeat everything twice, vs screen, rebel 1, rebel 1, etc.
also, .. maybe another bug: if you use forgebond, it says disable all offensive abilities, but it does.. not.
clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
Well Mephs, it is an amazing game and very fun, I notice that the "hit effects" only apply to doodads on some of the skill shots but not all of them. For example, with Revolver you can clearly see what your shots can and cant go through cause the hit effect applies to the doodads. I don't see that with Hawk, maybe I'm just blind. I know you can see it with ace and rush though.
Also, the crater thing I was talking about earlier, I think it's Onyx's AOE bomb thing, the crater it leaves behind blocks a lot of the skill shots for some reason.
I'm sticking with my "Dex is OP" vote till a further date, counter class dmg might change it up, but again you'd have to have a counter class on your team which is more luck since you don't know what they are.
No, it doesn't, because its not even an object.
Also Forgebond doesn't slow/disable you because i changed it. Just wasn't a useful skill the way I had it.
This map seems amazing, any plans on releasing it for europe? The games over here are so boring :(
oh, no wonder
sorry for being annoying.. yeah, you know.. meh <_< rush's pull pulls pyro out of his ult if thats intended
Please tell me what song is playing Ingame, Its driving me crazy.
Also a bug. If you leave the game before the music is over, You hear the music going on forever in the lobby - It IS a interface sound.
Prefer if you PM me.
@BuuGhost: Go
So that's what makes it do that, its set as UI?
I see, I'll fix that ASAP.
-Just to address balance issues.
Keep in mind this game is in BETA, its been out FIVE DAYS, games like DOTA, have been out for YEARS, and are STILL NOT BALANCED.
Right now after rigorous playtesting I can conclude only one thing needs fixing:
-Rush: Probably the biggest issue right now is the fact his pull is completely unstoppable if you are hit with it. You can't reactively escape the pull if it hits, because it is un-escapable. I'm aiming to fix this relatively soon and make it so escapes break the pull if you pop it before the actual force effect takes place.
I think its no fair to upload this map only in US I play in EU and also want to try this awesome map Can you upload this in EU