Right and my question is why a god can have these attributes but the
universe/multiverse cannot.
Because "everything from nothing" is the absolute height of credulity. It contradicts our understanding that only intelligence can beget intelligence, and only life can beget life. Sense does not come from nonsense!
It's not that God gets a "free pass" in our deliberations, it's that his existence is the only explanation that resolves the age-old conundrums that these discussions inevitably brickwall into.
The reason we have modern ethics & morals today is because we've progressed this far as a civilization through scientific means. Scientific advancement has given us time to sit down and actually think about what it means to be moral. Again, things such as being nice to animals, equality of women, equality of African Americans, etc. have arisen only in the last century.
That's not true! The ancient Romans with their gladiator pits were on the cusp of the steam engine. If they were afforded the time to stumble upon it...
Poetic that their inner barbarism was unmade by literal barbarians.
My perception of reality is based on evidence, the type that is gathered
through scientific experimentation, the type that can be repeated,
scrutinized, and verified by other people. The supernatural world may
not even exist. It's probably human misperception of actual reality,
just as with the light refraction with water, UFOs, bigfoot sightings,
mirages, creaking floors due to expansion/contraction due to
moisture/heat, etc. It is possible you have Don Quixote syndrome.
By the way, Ra, Zeus, Odin, Xemu each have two eyes and his domain is
space, so does Ming the Merciless, Emperor Palpatine, Q, even Ceiling
Cat.
You seem to have a passable knowledge of history, and the cognitive development of mankind. How many times then must conventional wisdom be flipped on its head before you're convinced that the end is no where in sight?
You can't rightly discern a 1920 x 1080 computer image from four pixels.
Just saying, according to you, your god seems to believe that helping
you out with your personal problems far outweighs the obligation of
curing all the world's diseases, ending famine, ending violence, ridding
all those vices, etc.
I can't say I'm far removed from the unwashed masses at this point in time. Prior to my fall from grace I was a veritable Ned Flanders, a beaming, shining example of God's love that lit every room I entered. He LOVES people with big hearts, and I can only suppose that he still sees potential in me.
I also want to clarify that the incident happened after I reconciled with my brother. It didn't prompt me to action, it was an apparent result.
It definitely sounds like your experience is an illusion.
I know. Your perception of reality doesn't allow for anything else. I get it.
You think all the crazies are a point in your favor. I consider them a point in mine. It's what we call an impasse.
It's easy to forget just how outlandishly bizarre this whole thing is. I just look at our strangely shaped troglodytic feet to remind myself. All I know about the true nature of reality is that it's flabbergasting beyond description. And as patently unprepared as I am for the supernatural world, well...you'd better pack some clean underwear...
The train of thought that concludes I am trying to prove something with a self-admitted lack of presentable evidence is the very same that constitutes blasphemy as "a little criticism."
But I know you are keenly aware that the crux of the Christian faith is that no one else can prove it for you.
Except that personal experience and sensory perception can misguided.
Many people mistake coincidence and random events as pre-ordained (e.g.
"I didn't die on 9/11 because I overslept and missed my flight; must
have been saved by my invisible friend"). Your eyes alone can't see the
entire EM spectrum, blurry vision have caused people to misidentified
human aircraft, Venus, Jupiter, and even the moon as undeniable evidence
of alien spacecraft. Personal experience (a sum of evidence gathering)
and sensory perception are good starters for gathering evidence, but
they're not always valid and infallible. You probably don't have any
personal experience with power plants and power distribution grid, so
does that mean that outlets are magical portals from which electricity
spew? If you've ever seen something at the bottom of a body of water and
tried to pick it up, chances are, you missed the first time because your
eyes were seeing the effect of light refraction between the interface of
different media (air and water); what you saw as the distance wasn't the
actual distance.
Well said. But I'm not convinced that these commonplace optical illusions are in the same league as a head-pounding magnetic metallic ringing pulse, like someone flipped a breaker switch directly connected to the crown of your head, followed by a pair of luminescent eyes floating on a backdrop of stars localized entirely within your bedroom. It was the very night I reconciled with my brother after months of estrangement, having cursed his name to the pits of hell.
You need to have evidence in the first place before you can even claim
to have "undeniable" evidence. If your new hypothesis is correct, your
god seems to want nothing to do with the human species or the rest of
the known universe. As we understand more and more of the universe, it
seems your god wants nothing to do with the universe at all. Please
refer to Gradius's chart of the decline of your god's powers in one of
the previous posts.
By your insistence it's merely a hypothesis that I'm typing on a laptop right now. I choose to trust my eyeballs now, just as I did then. Denying the validity of personal experience and sensory perception means you're left with nothing. It's just more nihilism.
That's your unverifiable hypothesis for why the experiments yielded
results that contradict those subjects' existence. You don't have any
evidence to verify the "presence of a disembodied intelligence". You
don't understand science and as such you do not understand
experimentation and gathering of evidence.
Just because I have no evidence for you, doesn't mean I wasn't given undeniable evidence. The ironic thing is I was actually minding my own business when the mindfuck occurred, nothing close to prayer or anything like that. So, call it doubly lazy if you like.
It might serve you to entertain the notion that he just wants nothing to do with you, for whatever reason.
The truth doesn't come for you, you obtain the truth. It's just lazy to
believe the truth is a god-erment handout. Truth is determined through
gathering evidence and that's what science and experimentation is all
about. You can claim anything as possibility in the absence of evidence,
but you cannot claim it as absolute truth because you cannot verify it.
You also cannot claim something as truth when a myriad of evidence exist
that contradict your claim. Religious doctrines are extremely flawed
"truths".
As for the tomato, it's philosophically possible, not inevitable, given
an infinite amount of time. As of our current scientific understanding,
it's not probable for a tomato to have the power to turn the night sky
red.
The presence of a disembodied intelligence has been duly verified, thank you very much. You're so naive to think that such a being wouldn't see right through your experimentation that I wouldn't expect you to understand.
An event coming outside of our universe is random to our universe as its
"cause" didnt origin from this universe. Just by reading our universe
from outside of this universe is a random event (Turing...).
So randomness is not at all "effect without cause."
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Because "everything from nothing" is the absolute height of credulity. It contradicts our understanding that only intelligence can beget intelligence, and only life can beget life. Sense does not come from nonsense!
It's not that God gets a "free pass" in our deliberations, it's that his existence is the only explanation that resolves the age-old conundrums that these discussions inevitably brickwall into.
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The theist posit is not that God created himself but that he always existed.
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Christianity vs. evolution is a false dichotomy.
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That's not true! The ancient Romans with their gladiator pits were on the cusp of the steam engine. If they were afforded the time to stumble upon it...
Poetic that their inner barbarism was unmade by literal barbarians.
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Scientific advancement is not an invariably noble endeavor regardless of anything. If it surpasses our moral advancement it'll be our doom.
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I thought we were well past Spontaneous Generation but I guess it's made a comeback.
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No amount of factual accuracy can redeem being a Squidward.
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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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You seem to have a passable knowledge of history, and the cognitive development of mankind. How many times then must conventional wisdom be flipped on its head before you're convinced that the end is no where in sight?
You can't rightly discern a 1920 x 1080 computer image from four pixels.
I can't say I'm far removed from the unwashed masses at this point in time. Prior to my fall from grace I was a veritable Ned Flanders, a beaming, shining example of God's love that lit every room I entered. He LOVES people with big hearts, and I can only suppose that he still sees potential in me.
I also want to clarify that the incident happened after I reconciled with my brother. It didn't prompt me to action, it was an apparent result.
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I know. Your perception of reality doesn't allow for anything else. I get it.
You think all the crazies are a point in your favor. I consider them a point in mine. It's what we call an impasse.
It's easy to forget just how outlandishly bizarre this whole thing is. I just look at our strangely shaped troglodytic feet to remind myself. All I know about the true nature of reality is that it's flabbergasting beyond description. And as patently unprepared as I am for the supernatural world, well...you'd better pack some clean underwear...
0
The train of thought that concludes I am trying to prove something with a self-admitted lack of presentable evidence is the very same that constitutes blasphemy as "a little criticism."
But I know you are keenly aware that the crux of the Christian faith is that no one else can prove it for you.
Well said. But I'm not convinced that these commonplace optical illusions are in the same league as a head-pounding magnetic metallic ringing pulse, like someone flipped a breaker switch directly connected to the crown of your head, followed by a pair of luminescent eyes floating on a backdrop of stars localized entirely within your bedroom. It was the very night I reconciled with my brother after months of estrangement, having cursed his name to the pits of hell.
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By your insistence it's merely a hypothesis that I'm typing on a laptop right now. I choose to trust my eyeballs now, just as I did then. Denying the validity of personal experience and sensory perception means you're left with nothing. It's just more nihilism.
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Just because I have no evidence for you, doesn't mean I wasn't given undeniable evidence. The ironic thing is I was actually minding my own business when the mindfuck occurred, nothing close to prayer or anything like that. So, call it doubly lazy if you like.
It might serve you to entertain the notion that he just wants nothing to do with you, for whatever reason.
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The presence of a disembodied intelligence has been duly verified, thank you very much. You're so naive to think that such a being wouldn't see right through your experimentation that I wouldn't expect you to understand.
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That's not true. The truth can come to you, if you open the door for it.
So randomness is not at all "effect without cause."