I, and probably most who played wc3, disagree. This system is what allowed DotA to completely take over the custom map scene. The sc2 system would keep a map as popular as DotA alive, but ensure it doesn't monopolise the custom map arena.
But isn't it true that DotA only took over the scene because it was exactly what people where looking for?
In my opinion its not the popularity system that hurts scs2 as much as the fact that we aren't allowed to download maps outside battle.net. Websites like hiveworkshop provided excellent information about a map and you could download it easily.
I like yours gameplay-wise but I wish it had more than one main entrance. If I were you I would add two more. One at each side where manmade-clif-expansions could lead to the Xel'Naga Watch Towers. Yes, I do believe that we should take liberties such as these to improve the maps. (OR you could argue that your map is a mainly-air-focused map, thus one entrance is enough).
I like how your map tells a story while being a melee map. Intriguing doodad and texture mix. But... Blizzard intentionally doesn't use that many doodads on multiplayer maps, so the battlefield stays clear and nothing distracts from the fast-paced gameplay. You may have considered that, or you may have not, just wanted to say it :P
For a single-player map this would be very, very cool.
I've finished my heavily modified version of Crescent Moon.
Some of the changes:
- added Gas to the main land expansions.
- connected two of the four islands to the main land.
- tighter chokes.
- lowered ground area around central island.
- connections to central island via Rocks.
- Terrain theme: Much manmade stuff added so the map will look a little more varied.
- SC2 stuff like Rocks, LOS Blockers, Watch Towers and Gold Minerals.
- I tried to balance those four starting positions a little more so the long cliffs won't affect the players on 9 and 3 o'clock so much. Still, 1v1 and 2v2 is recommended, FFA is not.
I went into the Blizzard Map TZeratul04 (the one where you defend from zerg until you die), then Data Editor and copied the fog settings from the Terrain Texture Set 'Shakuras (Wasteland)'.
Day 6 - Final
I'm basically done with the map.
Overview
I think I will submit it to the Contest Submission Thread in about 48 hours from now. Everyone who is interested is invited to playtest the map and give me feedback. until then.
Update: I've published the map on Battle.net. If you want to play it with regularly updated gameplay you should search for it there under 'Crescent Moon XE'.
I'm done with the general texturing of the map. So it's nearly complete.
4 o'clock Natural
I may have overdone it with the decals this time, as they seem to distract too much (Blizzard maps are usually poor on doodads and have simpler texturing for gameplay purposes) but I left them in in hopes of getting some feedback.
Southern Island
Another island that was previsously unconnected to the main land. I created a connection because I think two islands were enough. I wanted more of a 'normal' map.
I still got a couple of things on my to-do list before I can release it. I will (and already have) added a Foliage, play around with all sorts of doodads I think fit to the theme, add critters, improve water and fog, add effects, check the pathing (so nobody can get where he ain't supposed to) and remove doodads which the player wouldn't see any way, for performance reasons.
The map, despite being in beta now, is also getting some gameplay updates, by adding a couple of LOS Blockers and so on.
Day 4
Around 3/4 of the terrain is done so far. I'm always trying to evaluate gameplay as I go, changing placement of destructible rocks, watch towers, space or LOS Blockers.
Starting Position Player 002 - 3 o'clock
I tried to have green cliffs reaching in to the main base. The main path and theme of the map will remain in blue.
Natural 8 o'clock
I tried to make one sector as cold as possible, not using anythingelse than the white/blue normal texture and the rocky texture.
Island 7 o'clock
With this island I tried to mix manmade textures with natural textures. I also placed one of these circle doodads in hope that it won't distract too much from the actual gameplay.
The fog that you see on the ground appeared exactly like that in the last Protoss mission. I added a couple of effects and tried something new with doodads though (Archways working as Support Beams).
Now, my intention was never to immitate the looks of the original Crescent Moon but to make it visually as pleasing as possible Take the game Unreal Tournament for example where they recreated the map Deck(16) for any new version of UT. This map never gives you the idea that it's out of place, out of line with the other new maps. It fits perfectly.
1 o'clock Island Expansion
Gameplay-wise it's the same but then again UT never changed much in Deathmatch-mode, whether it was the original Unreal or UT3. This is where SC2 is so different. Mainly action on the cliffs.
Natural Player 004 - Upper Left
Which is why I added or removed a lot of the original cliffs.
Road to 12 o'clock Expansion which used to be an island
Rocks block way to the Road
Player 003 Start. 9 o'clock.
Around 40% of the map is done so far.
Now that I have done a couple of sectors I must say that of all the Tilesets I've tried out so far (Mar Sara, Bel'Shir and Shakuras so far. D'oh!) Shakuras seems to be the easiest to do, despite the chaotic/alien looks of it. But it is exactly this chaotic look that makes it so easy to work with. With the other tilets I had to carefully measure out how of each texture to use at a place. And I could never mix more than 2 or 3 of them at once. With Shakuras I can throw in a basic texture, combine 2-3 different textures fo the cliffs and add a couple of color variations to the main texture. It also doesn't hurt much to mix many rocks with all sorts of vegetaion. It looks fine, at least to my eyes.
I hate Mapster a little bit now for not letting us create our own melee maps. It may be my own fault for picking a flawed melee map but then again probably every interesting SC1 map has its flaws.
Well, at least I get to cover gameplay flaws with improved terrain. Yesterday I spent time with Starting Position 3 and its Third to its right.
- •Recreate an SC1 Melee Map as you see fit. The goal is to create a balanced SC2 melee map, but must be a replicate of the original map. So that means the map itself must be correct in terms of cliff and player placement, etc. -
I may not be a mod but in my opinion I think any map can be changed any way the mapper thinks it's neccessary for good gameplay. The vote will be public (I hope they change that), but hopefully the voters will not jut have a quick glance at the minimaps but think of gameplay as well. People should keep in mind that SC2 gameplay has so many different requirements than SC1 maps had, and also that most of the old SC1 maps were imbalanced even for SC1.
On my map I changed a lot of things. Besides the obvious Watch Towers, Gold Expos and LOS Blockers, I added ground access to islands, changed ground height, made individual sectors smaller, made entrance space to player bases narrower, changed accesibility of cliffs.
Looking at all the old SC1 maps I understand why barely any of them got played in pro leagues ;). And even if you sort that out, they do need significant changes in order to work for SC2.
- Introduction -
I thought it would be neat if I wrote about my Work-In-Progress through the days of the contest. I might not be able to update it everyday but it will motivate me nontheless knowing that there are eyes on me.
Day 01
First thing I did after reading about the contest was going through the SC1 maps of nibbits.com. By looking at the screenshots I decided that I wanted to remake (4)Crescent Moon.
Luckily the screenshots are big enough so I don't have to reinstall the SC1-Editor.
Figuring out positional imbalances
First thing I noticed was the imbalance of the map. It's a four player map but only the cross positions are equal to one another. In my first attempts I tried to think of ways to balance the map for all players equally, but the looks of the map would have been altered way too much. I gave up on symmetrical rebalance and thought that it wouldn't matter much anyway. If you go to the Player (Alliance/Enemy) Properties you can set the map so that, whether it's 2 or 4 players playing the game, you can adjust the team position properly. So this map can be played in 1on1 or 2on2. 3 or 4 player FFA is not recommended.
SC1 balance NOT EQUAL to SC2 balance
Next thing I tried to figure out was whether some of the new cliff-walking units in SC2 (Stalker, Reaper, Collosus etc.) would change the dynamic of the map too much. The 9 and 3 o'clock starting positions are surrounded by cliffs. No player would feel comfortable with that, and I doubt that it was fun in SC1 (thinking of Siege Tanks here) either. My remake will have a gap between the cliff and the player base, but I will also add a lot of doodads to prevent heavy abuse of that cliff. It will still be possble to launch attacks from up there, but only closer to the Natural, instead of the Main.
Second thing. For balancing reasons most proper SC1 and SC2 maps have narrow entrances to player bases. I did the same to this map. Naturals will still have wider entrances but will have ramps.
Changing the gameplay to my own taste + adding SC2 flavour
I thought that this map had a few too many islands so I created entrances which I blocked with destructible rocks. I placed the only Rich Minerals on the plateau on the central of the map to make this position much more interesting. Players can access it via destructible rocks. This way you could attack that plateau easier but you could also just send some troops on it for visual advantage. The Watch Towers I added wil inform players of others getting to the half-islands and attacking through the side ways. I'm not happy yet with the narrow space that's up there. Larger armies will have problems. I also added the typical LOS Blockers to that position but I am also not happy.
Visuals
The first gameplay iteration is ready and I've started working on some of the visuals. I've only placed some basic colors to guide me through the map. The next days will have me have a good look at Blizzard's SC2 Shakuras maps to get a good feeling for their color and texture work. I plan on doing everything by hand. No texture shall be copied,-rotated-and-pasted.
Do you think I changed too much? Too little? Do you want more or less information? Your opinion is appreciated.
0
But isn't it true that DotA only took over the scene because it was exactly what people where looking for?
In my opinion its not the popularity system that hurts scs2 as much as the fact that we aren't allowed to download maps outside battle.net. Websites like hiveworkshop provided excellent information about a map and you could download it easily.
0
Don't have SC2 installed at this pc. I think it was one of the hotkeys X,C,V,B or something like that. Try out or wait for better answer :)
0
I like yours gameplay-wise but I wish it had more than one main entrance. If I were you I would add two more. One at each side where manmade-clif-expansions could lead to the Xel'Naga Watch Towers. Yes, I do believe that we should take liberties such as these to improve the maps. (OR you could argue that your map is a mainly-air-focused map, thus one entrance is enough).
0
As I wrote, you have an interesting style. I would like to see your other maps.
0
I like how your map tells a story while being a melee map. Intriguing doodad and texture mix. But... Blizzard intentionally doesn't use that many doodads on multiplayer maps, so the battlefield stays clear and nothing distracts from the fast-paced gameplay. You may have considered that, or you may have not, just wanted to say it :P
For a single-player map this would be very, very cool.
0
I've finished my heavily modified version of Crescent Moon.
Some of the changes: - added Gas to the main land expansions. - connected two of the four islands to the main land. - tighter chokes. - lowered ground area around central island. - connections to central island via Rocks. - Terrain theme: Much manmade stuff added so the map will look a little more varied. - SC2 stuff like Rocks, LOS Blockers, Watch Towers and Gold Minerals. - I tried to balance those four starting positions a little more so the long cliffs won't affect the players on 9 and 3 o'clock so much. Still, 1v1 and 2v2 is recommended, FFA is not.
More screenshots can be found here: http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/project-workplace/13370-sc1-melee-map-contest-my-diary/#p9
Map can also be played via Battle.net. Search for 'Crescent Moon XE'.
0
If it was my map I would be furious. There are reasons why people lock their maps.
0
I went into the Blizzard Map TZeratul04 (the one where you defend from zerg until you die), then Data Editor and copied the fog settings from the Terrain Texture Set 'Shakuras (Wasteland)'.
Day 6 - Final I'm basically done with the map.
I think I will submit it to the Contest Submission Thread in about 48 hours from now. Everyone who is interested is invited to playtest the map and give me feedback. until then.
Update: I've published the map on Battle.net. If you want to play it with regularly updated gameplay you should search for it there under 'Crescent Moon XE'.
0
Day 5
I'm done with the general texturing of the map. So it's nearly complete.
I still got a couple of things on my to-do list before I can release it. I will (and already have) added a Foliage, play around with all sorts of doodads I think fit to the theme, add critters, improve water and fog, add effects, check the pathing (so nobody can get where he ain't supposed to) and remove doodads which the player wouldn't see any way, for performance reasons.
The map, despite being in beta now, is also getting some gameplay updates, by adding a couple of LOS Blockers and so on.
0
Thank you.
Day 4 Around 3/4 of the terrain is done so far. I'm always trying to evaluate gameplay as I go, changing placement of destructible rocks, watch towers, space or LOS Blockers.
The fog that you see on the ground appeared exactly like that in the last Protoss mission. I added a couple of effects and tried something new with doodads though (Archways working as Support Beams).
0
Day 3
Now, my intention was never to immitate the looks of the original Crescent Moon but to make it visually as pleasing as possible Take the game Unreal Tournament for example where they recreated the map Deck(16) for any new version of UT. This map never gives you the idea that it's out of place, out of line with the other new maps. It fits perfectly.
Gameplay-wise it's the same but then again UT never changed much in Deathmatch-mode, whether it was the original Unreal or UT3. This is where SC2 is so different. Mainly action on the cliffs.
Which is why I added or removed a lot of the original cliffs.
Around 40% of the map is done so far.
Now that I have done a couple of sectors I must say that of all the Tilesets I've tried out so far (Mar Sara, Bel'Shir and Shakuras so far. D'oh!) Shakuras seems to be the easiest to do, despite the chaotic/alien looks of it. But it is exactly this chaotic look that makes it so easy to work with. With the other tilets I had to carefully measure out how of each texture to use at a place. And I could never mix more than 2 or 3 of them at once. With Shakuras I can throw in a basic texture, combine 2-3 different textures fo the cliffs and add a couple of color variations to the main texture. It also doesn't hurt much to mix many rocks with all sorts of vegetaion. It looks fine, at least to my eyes.
0
Day 2
I hate Mapster a little bit now for not letting us create our own melee maps. It may be my own fault for picking a flawed melee map but then again probably every interesting SC1 map has its flaws.
Well, at least I get to cover gameplay flaws with improved terrain. Yesterday I spent time with Starting Position 3 and its Third to its right.
0
- •Recreate an SC1 Melee Map as you see fit. The goal is to create a balanced SC2 melee map, but must be a replicate of the original map. So that means the map itself must be correct in terms of cliff and player placement, etc. -
I may not be a mod but in my opinion I think any map can be changed any way the mapper thinks it's neccessary for good gameplay. The vote will be public (I hope they change that), but hopefully the voters will not jut have a quick glance at the minimaps but think of gameplay as well. People should keep in mind that SC2 gameplay has so many different requirements than SC1 maps had, and also that most of the old SC1 maps were imbalanced even for SC1.
On my map I changed a lot of things. Besides the obvious Watch Towers, Gold Expos and LOS Blockers, I added ground access to islands, changed ground height, made individual sectors smaller, made entrance space to player bases narrower, changed accesibility of cliffs.
0
Looking at all the old SC1 maps I understand why barely any of them got played in pro leagues ;). And even if you sort that out, they do need significant changes in order to work for SC2.
0
- Introduction - I thought it would be neat if I wrote about my Work-In-Progress through the days of the contest. I might not be able to update it everyday but it will motivate me nontheless knowing that there are eyes on me.
Day 01 First thing I did after reading about the contest was going through the SC1 maps of nibbits.com. By looking at the screenshots I decided that I wanted to remake (4)Crescent Moon.
Luckily the screenshots are big enough so I don't have to reinstall the SC1-Editor.
Figuring out positional imbalances First thing I noticed was the imbalance of the map. It's a four player map but only the cross positions are equal to one another. In my first attempts I tried to think of ways to balance the map for all players equally, but the looks of the map would have been altered way too much. I gave up on symmetrical rebalance and thought that it wouldn't matter much anyway. If you go to the Player (Alliance/Enemy) Properties you can set the map so that, whether it's 2 or 4 players playing the game, you can adjust the team position properly. So this map can be played in 1on1 or 2on2. 3 or 4 player FFA is not recommended.
SC1 balance NOT EQUAL to SC2 balance Next thing I tried to figure out was whether some of the new cliff-walking units in SC2 (Stalker, Reaper, Collosus etc.) would change the dynamic of the map too much. The 9 and 3 o'clock starting positions are surrounded by cliffs. No player would feel comfortable with that, and I doubt that it was fun in SC1 (thinking of Siege Tanks here) either. My remake will have a gap between the cliff and the player base, but I will also add a lot of doodads to prevent heavy abuse of that cliff. It will still be possble to launch attacks from up there, but only closer to the Natural, instead of the Main. Second thing. For balancing reasons most proper SC1 and SC2 maps have narrow entrances to player bases. I did the same to this map. Naturals will still have wider entrances but will have ramps.
Changing the gameplay to my own taste + adding SC2 flavour I thought that this map had a few too many islands so I created entrances which I blocked with destructible rocks. I placed the only Rich Minerals on the plateau on the central of the map to make this position much more interesting. Players can access it via destructible rocks. This way you could attack that plateau easier but you could also just send some troops on it for visual advantage. The Watch Towers I added wil inform players of others getting to the half-islands and attacking through the side ways. I'm not happy yet with the narrow space that's up there. Larger armies will have problems. I also added the typical LOS Blockers to that position but I am also not happy.
Visuals The first gameplay iteration is ready and I've started working on some of the visuals. I've only placed some basic colors to guide me through the map. The next days will have me have a good look at Blizzard's SC2 Shakuras maps to get a good feeling for their color and texture work. I plan on doing everything by hand. No texture shall be copied,-rotated-and-pasted.
Do you think I changed too much? Too little? Do you want more or less information? Your opinion is appreciated.