SC2Mapster

Glad to here it! I hope others do to. The community needs to run this. I did some research and added some tips to the OP, but there is much more that needs to be done.

If anyone wants to extract any details that might be useful from those YouTube videos and share them in text format, it would be much appreciated.

Hey everyone!

So I know that melee mapping might not be the most interesting for a lot of us "custom mappers", but I would like to try and revive this thread. Melee mapping in general lacks organization, and it revolves a bit too much around copying Blizzard maps, at least in my opinion.

So, I believe it is time for a THREAD NECRO!

Anyways, I would like to TRY and revive this thread, and see what we can do with it as a community! Any ideas you have I will add to the OP thread, and then see where that takes us. If no ideas come in... well then I guess we will have no tips and tricks :( Let's not let that happen!

NOTE: Try and include numbers. For example, x minerals per expansion, map about x size for, number of vespene geysers x, etc. Try to stay away from the "do what feels right" advice when dealing with things that revolve around numbers, BUT if you have some advice that DOESN'T deal with numbers, PLEASE share that as well. For some ideas on what I mean by that, check out the notes section of the OP.

@zeldarules28: Go

Hey I was gonna lock the thread for getting off topic, but I decided not to, thanks for making me feel better about my decision! :D

@Alevice: Go

The editor's definition of melee is different than what we want here. For example, I believe that as soon as you change a default trigger it is no longer considered melee.

Like stated above, the line between "melee" and "custom" is very, well, controversial? We are using Blizzard's engine, so all games *should* be somewhat similar. Once again, common sense is key. If you play the game like melee, it is melee. If you don't, it is not.

Quote from Keyeszx: Go

Would having 1 gas for the main base really throw off the play? I know it probably wouldn't allow for a lot of tech early but would it allow certain races to have an advantage?

Take this for example. Yes it would through of gameplay, but does it really make the game "custom"? No, not really. In fact not at all. It is still very much SC2.

Now take SmashCraft for example. That game is (I am assuming, based on gameplay and the title) based off of Super Smash Bros. That is not Starcraft, and is considered a custom game. (I know that one is obvious, but you get the idea)

"Altered Melee" are games like Phantom Mode and Fastest Map. They use melee concepts and gameplay, but alter an aspect of the game. ICJUG is altered melee, etc. If you use all the melee default triggers (unless you made your own melee AI of course), then I would consider it an "altered melee".

What I mean by Data is altering build times, damage, maybe adding in a unit, etc. That is melee. When you change the way you play the game, then it is no longer melee. For example, these concepts would void the game of "melee" status, in my opinion.

• No traditional mining. (Desert Strike income, etc)
• No traditional spawning. (Units must be trained from a building. Once again, Desert Strike)
• Units must cost resrouces. (Marine Arena, where buildings constantly spawn units for free)
• Altered victory conditions. (Point system, like Roundabout War, One Base per team, like Nexus Wars)
• Obviously if the gameplay is altered rediculously, like a TD or Tug of War.

Note that this might not necessarily mean that your map is not melee if it uses ONE of those concepts. For example, maybe you have a game where it is melee, but bases are easily destroyed? The person with the most bases destroyed at the end wins. That is a point system, but I would still consider it a melee map.

Use your judgement, and common sense.. If you think it could be a melee map, post it here. If it isn't, it will just be moved to the proper forum.

Yes and no. Altered melee is still melee. This is map making community. If you didn't alter it, how would it be map making? (Besides terrain of course)

The List

I would like to start a comprehensive list of melee development tips and tricks that the community can add to and advance.

Terrain

Terrain refers to the tactical positioning of your resources/Xel' Naga Towers, cliff size and placement, base size, expansion distance from main and size, etc. You know, terrain stuff. As we don't have anything yet, I will put some examples below to fill in.

• Number of Mineral Patches per base: Typically 8. 6 is also a standard on some maps, typically 3v3 or 4v4 where there are a lot of expansion options, and having 8 would make the expansions too valuable.
• Number of Vespene Geysers per base: Typically 2 for a normal base. Some bases have 1 (sometimes natural or base just beyond natural) Other bases have none, which are usually bases that are either highly contested or far away from either teams main base. (With the exception of island bases, which usually have the standard 2)
• Size of cliff leaving main base (1 player base): ?
• Size of cliff leaving main base (2 player base): ?
• Appropriate size of main base: ?

Notes

• Scroll through the rest of the thread! People post things that are either a, too long to post here (videos, explanations, etc) or b, too general.
• Decide which type of melee map you want to make. A traditional Blizzard map has specific guidelines that they follow when placing xel'naga towers, expansions, and cliffs. Too many cliffs could make a unit such as the siege tank overpowered. Too many xel'naga towers could make certain abilities obsolete or less cost effective, such as the orbital command scanner sweep. These are all things to think about. When balancing. If you follow these rules, you won't have to do any balancing yourself when it comes to units.
• The second kind of map is harder to make. It goes beyond just terraining, and involves unit balancing. If you want to make a map like Phantom Mode, you need to take into account the change in play style. If you make a game where all units are 200% faster, then you need to take into account the zergling speed upgrade, or maybe the stalker blink ability. To make a melee map fun, it needs to be balanced. Taking all of these details into account is essential.
• Take into account team size. Although this may seem obvious, it is important to realize that the layout of a 4v4 map is going to be inherently different than a 1v1 map on a variety of levels. One level would be expansions. Each player needs one, where should they be? Is one base easier to defend than another? If so, then what other tactical advantages could we give that base to make it balanced? Blizzard does this very nicely by including cliffs, ramp locations, and other terraining strategies.
• Think about balance first. I would recommend not even looking at the texture properties until you are done with the cliff design. Also remember that the terrain raise/lower (not cliffs) tool does NOT affect gameplay, and should be saved for the end as well.

Custom Units/Features

I decided to include this section here as well. This refers to everything that you might want to add. For example, maybe you want to add an upgrade that allows you to give marines advanced training, turning them into war pigs. This is an important time to remember that war pigs are balanced for the campaign, but are not necessarily balanced for melee. This goes for any other campaign unit, and even more so for any custom unit that you decided to make. Below are some guidelines you should follow when making custom units/features.

• How deeply does your custom unit affect gameplay? Is it an upgraded marine, or is it a stalker that can blink across the map? What role does the unit fill? Does the race the unit is being added to already have a unit that fulfills it's role? Answer these questions. If something feels out of place, it probably is. Don't try to force something that isn't meant to be.
• In balancing a custom unit, there are a couple of steps you should follow. First, compare the unit to other units of similar attributes. If you are finding 15 units that are similar, the unit does too much. A hydralisk that can mutate into an ultralisk while casting psionic storm with a shield with stimpack is probably too much. Try narrowing it down.
• If you have found a couple of units that are similar to the same unit in some way, compare their costs. How similar are the costs? Take everything into account: Speed, damage, attack speed, health, armor, shields, abilities, plane (air/ground), etc. If you feel your unit does more damage while taking less, it should be worth more. That is all there is to it. But, remember that a hellion is worth what it is because of it's speed and ability to avoid attacks from other units and get out safely. A sentry is worth more because it has be ability to disrupt enemy movement to allow for your units to do more and the enemy's to do less.
• Remember that as a general rule, units with a lot of utility (such as the ghost, sentry, infestor, etc) typically cost more vespene than a pure damaging unit would. This is very important for balance. Blizzard did this for a reason. (I even remember them stating that in Starcraft lore, vespene is used to fuel various psionic abilities and what not, whereas minerals are used to build the actual unit)
• THIS SECTION NEEDS YOUR HELP! What you see above are my efforts to combine everything that I have noticed around SC2Mapster and in personal experience. You might disagree with it. Disagree! Post your opinions! Add more!

What You Should Do

If you discover something that you think is note worthy, or something that hasn't been listed before that could help out future melee developers, post below! We want to make this list as full as possible! If I like your contribution, I will most likely copy and paste it into the main thread, so make your posts count! Everything above should be COMMUNITY DRIVEN. If you find something above that you disagree with, please, voice your opinion there as well. We want this to be informative, and for that to be the case, it needs to be accurate!