The people just goes greedy about the modding lately and don't want to invest any time if there is no money payoff they get from it. In 2002-2006 there was a golden era of modding (NVN1, Morrowind, WC3, UnrealTournament2004, Doom3). Lot's of people was excited and just wanted to be creative and do something, in that time very few people think of it as of future job. Thats why there was a realy vast amount of mods (especialy for Morrowind and NVN).
Another crucial factor is that this modders was actualy a hardcore gamers which got Ultima, EverQuest, Daggerfal, Baldur'sGate, Quake, LaserSquad etc., - such kind of experience. I think that titles could realy grow a love to computer games in people's hearts. Now most of games tastes like a popcorn, people just enter it, casualy spends a few hours (just to look if graphics is shit or Crysis), in best case they will finish it. Good example is how BioWare gone from what they did in Baldurs and NVN1 to what they got in Dragon Age 2. The story was okay but in gameplay part it's total degradation after moving away from D&D rules. I mean if there was an option to force computer play in game by it's own, i could just watch the story movie with a popcorn and did not loose much.
I think game development in general needs total revision now. Or we will all play in Angry Flappy Barfy Birds soon
I think sc2 editor is pretty good, once you fully learned actor system and effect chains relations it feels comfortable to work with. The areas they could improve though are reconnect feature (which is already on the way) and trigger improvements for mouse control, perhaps increasing update rate at least for mouse events, because right now it's very hard to play diablo-style or shooter maps on battle.net especialy if there is also some noticeable latency. Also if they will make it easier to create custom ui's somehow (like in-game ui editor) it will be even greater and a huge time-saver.
Also, considering that even current complexity of galaxy editor deterred many potential mapmakers with wc3 background from using it, i dont think people rly need more advanced tools. Ofcourse you can get limitless engine and editor like Unreal4 or CryEngine3 or FrostBite, but what you will do with it? Without high quality assets that costs 400-700$ per each (7000 - 14000 poly character models with rig and animations) this tools are useless (or you can just make some "revolutionary" indie game where ball dodging walls). And even with that assets there is slight chance that some enthusiastic individuals will be able to do something greater than casual shootem-ups and tetris games. I mean even in sc2 editor in my opinion physics actors are a little overkill already and it is quite a tedious task to use them for every action actor for example. Especialy if you're already invested hundreds of hours in data work.
You can oppose by saying that there are lot's of free models on the internet, but let's face it - it's mostly complete unusable garbage. And most importantly, it doesn't feel good when you will download for example goblin model from the one author and knight model from another modeller, they most likely won't match by general style and will look like models from different games. There is no such problem with sc2 however so another "+" to blizzard tool
It is (as stated above) like suggesting that hundreds of thousands of ladder players will start playing your custom map. Not likely for a hardcore game. In my opinion, the "weekend warrior" based game, would do much better to allow for custom gaming mods.
That's exactly extends the thinking going in my head after reading this topic's title.
Also want to add that gameplay as any possible thing in the world can be done "Fast" or "Right" just simple as that.
To be honest, dota 2 has 0 chance to beat lol on the gameplay part.
loled. Don't take it like smack attack but that's horse shit. I spent freaking amount of time with dota 1 and few month in dota 2 (didn't like graphic design) as a hardcore dota player, started playing with first DTS team's first line-up members (with Travka and ArtStyle, there wasn't Navi team yet) when they just started to learn heroes and item builds in computer club, I often took 2nd place in Darer, and i must say with all the respect to Guinsoo and Eul that LoL is a no-skill shit for plebs. Gameplay-wise it's just like comparing corn sticks with bacon flavor enhancer with delicious top-notch dishes in expensive restaurant. It's just not stand a chance. The balance that developers of dota nurtured for years is near-perfection. What amazes me most in dota is when i enter the game i know that it's almost all up to me if i win this game or not, everyone has same chances. Even if my team will pick 5 late heroes, like Troll, Mort, Void, Riki, Sniper there is still a chance to win even crazy pushers with nukes spam (and i won many of such games with my HS friends). That's the beauty of dota's game design. It feels rly rewarding to gang under towers, wining fights with worse items, playing by-beauty. The dota allows me to show skill, to make some absurd item builds and still wining the game just because i have crazy experience and seeing the map even without maphack like if i have one cuz i just reading the intentions of the opponent team's players. I like to humiliate people with dagon 5 and dager on gondar (on 18-22 min of the game) or riki for example, while reading from my team how bad i am (while having 28-0 stat) and roam-killing anything that moves. The LoL simply doesn't give any freedom for player's creativity and individuality.
LoL and unfortunately, Blizzard's Heroes are just about: oh guys, let's get together and go gang their team then everyone starts to click on every skill available and see how it goes (while not understanding what's going on clearly).
So let's get it straight: for hardcore players the Dota is supreme and far beyond any of this moba-for-kids games, which started to grew like a mushrooms after the rain lately. Ofcourse it doesn't mean at all that it will have greater player base that other mobas. Comparing game quality by it's player base is more or less stupid. Every product will find it's own customer, and probably even more players will come to LoL, HotS and whatever else especialy after being eliminating by my dagon gondar while playing magina with tarasque. (yes that kind of bullshit happens when i enter the games)
The people just goes greedy about the modding lately and don't want to invest any time if there is no money payoff they get from it. In 2002-2006 there was a golden era of modding (NVN1, Morrowind, WC3, UnrealTournament2004, Doom3). Lot's of people was excited and just wanted to be creative and do something, in that time very few people think of it as of future job. Thats why there was a realy vast amount of mods (especialy for Morrowind and NVN).
Another crucial factor is that this modders was actualy a hardcore gamers which got Ultima, EverQuest, Daggerfal, Baldur'sGate, Quake, LaserSquad etc., - such kind of experience. I think that titles could realy grow a love to computer games in people's hearts. Now most of games tastes like a popcorn, people just enter it, casualy spends a few hours (just to look if graphics is shit or Crysis), in best case they will finish it. Good example is how BioWare gone from what they did in Baldurs and NVN1 to what they got in Dragon Age 2. The story was okay but in gameplay part it's total degradation after moving away from D&D rules. I mean if there was an option to force computer play in game by it's own, i could just watch the story movie with a popcorn and did not loose much.
I think game development in general needs total revision now. Or we will all play in Angry Flappy Barfy Birds soon
Just dont say that hardcore players is a dying breed. The hardcore games on the other hand....
I think sc2 editor is pretty good, once you fully learned actor system and effect chains relations it feels comfortable to work with. The areas they could improve though are reconnect feature (which is already on the way) and trigger improvements for mouse control, perhaps increasing update rate at least for mouse events, because right now it's very hard to play diablo-style or shooter maps on battle.net especialy if there is also some noticeable latency. Also if they will make it easier to create custom ui's somehow (like in-game ui editor) it will be even greater and a huge time-saver.
Also, considering that even current complexity of galaxy editor deterred many potential mapmakers with wc3 background from using it, i dont think people rly need more advanced tools. Ofcourse you can get limitless engine and editor like Unreal4 or CryEngine3 or FrostBite, but what you will do with it? Without high quality assets that costs 400-700$ per each (7000 - 14000 poly character models with rig and animations) this tools are useless (or you can just make some "revolutionary" indie game where ball dodging walls). And even with that assets there is slight chance that some enthusiastic individuals will be able to do something greater than casual shootem-ups and tetris games. I mean even in sc2 editor in my opinion physics actors are a little overkill already and it is quite a tedious task to use them for every action actor for example. Especialy if you're already invested hundreds of hours in data work.
You can oppose by saying that there are lot's of free models on the internet, but let's face it - it's mostly complete unusable garbage. And most importantly, it doesn't feel good when you will download for example goblin model from the one author and knight model from another modeller, they most likely won't match by general style and will look like models from different games. There is no such problem with sc2 however so another "+" to blizzard tool
@GlornII: Go
That's exactly extends the thinking going in my head after reading this topic's title.
Also want to add that gameplay as any possible thing in the world can be done "Fast" or "Right" just simple as that.
loled. Don't take it like smack attack but that's horse shit. I spent freaking amount of time with dota 1 and few month in dota 2 (didn't like graphic design) as a hardcore dota player, started playing with first DTS team's first line-up members (with Travka and ArtStyle, there wasn't Navi team yet) when they just started to learn heroes and item builds in computer club, I often took 2nd place in Darer, and i must say with all the respect to Guinsoo and Eul that LoL is a no-skill shit for plebs. Gameplay-wise it's just like comparing corn sticks with bacon flavor enhancer with delicious top-notch dishes in expensive restaurant. It's just not stand a chance. The balance that developers of dota nurtured for years is near-perfection. What amazes me most in dota is when i enter the game i know that it's almost all up to me if i win this game or not, everyone has same chances. Even if my team will pick 5 late heroes, like Troll, Mort, Void, Riki, Sniper there is still a chance to win even crazy pushers with nukes spam (and i won many of such games with my HS friends). That's the beauty of dota's game design. It feels rly rewarding to gang under towers, wining fights with worse items, playing by-beauty. The dota allows me to show skill, to make some absurd item builds and still wining the game just because i have crazy experience and seeing the map even without maphack like if i have one cuz i just reading the intentions of the opponent team's players. I like to humiliate people with dagon 5 and dager on gondar (on 18-22 min of the game) or riki for example, while reading from my team how bad i am (while having 28-0 stat) and roam-killing anything that moves. The LoL simply doesn't give any freedom for player's creativity and individuality.
LoL and unfortunately, Blizzard's Heroes are just about: oh guys, let's get together and go gang their team then everyone starts to click on every skill available and see how it goes (while not understanding what's going on clearly).
So let's get it straight: for hardcore players the Dota is supreme and far beyond any of this moba-for-kids games, which started to grew like a mushrooms after the rain lately. Ofcourse it doesn't mean at all that it will have greater player base that other mobas. Comparing game quality by it's player base is more or less stupid. Every product will find it's own customer, and probably even more players will come to LoL, HotS and whatever else especialy after being eliminating by my dagon gondar while playing magina with tarasque. (yes that kind of bullshit happens when i enter the games)
sucks...