"Blizzard posts a set of terms of use, everybody goes absolutely MENTAL over it, claiming this is part of an elaborate scheme of 'Blizzards downfall', I point out that it might not be that bad though even readily admit that there might be something fishy going on about Blizzard".
-It's called Activision, they poison everything Want to argue? Step 1: Name 1 game Activision has purchased rights to that isn't crap now. Step 2: Be angry because you spent time looking for something that doesn't exist. Step 3: Never admit you were wrong. Step 4: Become an asshat.
You've done a pretty good job at step 3 and 4 already, so you're ahead of yourself. Step 2 can't be proven or disproven at the moment, which is all I'm saying. You want to go and believe in something without knowing whether or to what extend it's true? Be my guest and leave, I don't want you in my community anyway.
You didn't bash me, so I see no need to return the favor. Your post actually makes some sense. My problem here is with the people on page one who are going nuts over this list of rules, abandoning all other thought - not with people who simply feel like Blizzard is losing touch with it's community. That's a legitimate concern and though there's a lot of debate possible to what extend it's true, it can't be denied that they are throwing down some fairly radical changes, at the least.
Yes, because we are all pulling this out of our asses right? Because this is the first time Blizzard has been this anal about something so completely stupid, right? Because, this is the first time people have complained about bad choices on blizzards part, and blizzard not making up for it.
No, all the posters before you were pulling stuff out of their asses. Or really, not even that, as they didn't give any compelling arguments at all. You've just, finally, given me something to work with. Now to disprove it.
Look at WoW 6 years ago. It was a great MMO that completely fucked all other MMO's ever to be created over the next two years back at release. It actually took time and dedication to actually get anywhere and you couldn't reach end-game in a month. Now look at what Blizzard has done to WoW simply because they want to appeal to a broader audience because that gets them more cash.
Not a fact, no argument.
They want to pull in casuals who can pick up the game, and beat it in less than a month. You can pug the strongest fucking character ever to exist in lore and don't even have to try.
Ah, I knew this was going to be pulled in somewhere. I'll give you my standard response. Did you kill the Lich King 25 man heroic without the buff? Or heck, even with it? No, you didn't. You're one of those annoying people that complain about how raiding used to be hardcore and is now easy, but hasn't actually managed to down all if even much raiding content. If you haven't been there, you've got no right to comment. What Blizzard has done with the simplification of raids is make end-game accessible to everyone, while still keeping the more hardcore parts in it intact in the form of hardmodes (and since IcC, the buff).
What has Blizzard done to bring back the old feeling of WoW that 80% of it's playerbase on a daily basis states they miss?
80%? You counted them? These percentages are worth shit if your data isn't empirical. For all people you know "that have this feeling", I can supply my guild and half my server stating the opposite.
Not a damn thing. What about the gold spammers and gold farmers that hog up your channels and spam you randomly? Nothing's done.
They ban accounts in waves. Every 6 months you'll see an announcement message that another X thousand accounts have been banned. Also, the easy report system was added. Not saying they're doing everything they can, but they aren't doing nothing.
They simply do not care about their player base anymore or their community.
Again, not a fact, and certainly not an argument.
How long as this popularity system been in place? And how long have people been complaining about it? I'll answer for you, the moment the system became flawed. And it's been quite a while.
The popularity system is actually more interesting to discuss. How long has it been in place? An entire BETA, and a week or so since launch. That said, it's hardly a valid argument because of various reasons:
A) It's not unlikely to be changed. We've all heard the messages about the whole map market thing, and it's certainly not a stretch that they're sorting out the details of all that before they throw in an entire new system of how popularity works.
B) Whether it's flawed is debatable. It certainly sounds bad, but if you want to throw in personal data, it's been working pretty well for me so far.
C) The game has only been out for a week or so. It's too short of a time to properly judge whether the system works. We'd need to check back in a month or three to have a clear statement.
There has been two patches to Starcraft in 2 weeks. Both that fix problems I've never even seen before. What about the count down timer that everyone complains about? What about this crappy popularity system that's been implemented that's killing maps I've never even heard of because they are at the bottom of the popularity list? Why did they water down multiplayer? What happened to the broad choice of units from the first Starcraft? Why is the game 60 dollars?
What a horrible and boring list that is. That's not arguments for how Blizzard is being a horrible company, that's you letting your emotions run wild without thinking, and yet again, slapping numbers on data that's not empirical. Not even going to bother with them.
Also, you mention TOS's and UELA's. Have you read the map editors? It states that the map editor (Which this whole thread is based on) is not supported by Blizzard themselves, when they're the one's who used the damn editor to make the game in the first place. And that customer support will not help with Editor related issues. From what I've seen you guys post on here, custom maps are the soul and heart of Blizzards games, and Blizzard could give a shit less about the people who use the Editor, or they'd directly support the tool themselves. Blizzard wants to regulate something they don't even support.
I'm sorry, but... how thick can you be? There are entire FORUMS dedicated to the 'art' of making maps. In case you hadn't noticed, we have a TUTORIALS SECTION filled to the brim with stuff about the editor. If Blizzard were to support the tool, they'd have to hire thousands of additional employees and even then couldn't answer all questions that would be thrown at them. It's simply not a feasible option. It's like asking the government to give support to 'drawing on paper'.
It's not Terms of Use, it's "We want to make the game a nice place for little kids to enjoy and have fun playing! ^_^". Last time I checked, the Halo series was rated M, and Starcraft is a lot more violet than Halo. And look at the player base of Halo, or any console game for that matter. Most console games are rated M anyways.
Obviously, these rules could end up being literal and they will indeed have people on it 24/7. When this starts happening, THEN you can come to me with your stories of how Blizzard is a horrible fascist company and why we should all quit buying their products because of this. Until then, I'm going to assume it's another list of strict legal rules, as have been included in pretty much every single game on the market.
tl;dr person the post is directed at is a moron.
Note that I didn't start the namecalling, but right back atcha. You want to prove me wrong, you come up with decent arguments, not "Oh, oh, I heard you could PUG IcC and my map isn't becoming popular, therefore the systems MUST be flawed, EVERYONE agrees with me and everyone at Blizzard is a fascist for enforcing this COMPLETELY NEW AND UNSEEN policy".
Blizzard posts a set of terms of use, everybody goes absolutely MENTAL over it, claiming this is part of an elaborate scheme of 'Blizzards downfall', I point out that it might not be that bad though even readily admit that there might be something fishy going on about Blizzard.
You try and tell me that I'm not being more objective than someone who takes a simple post regarding rules on maps, judges an entire company by it and takes a stance against it, the company as a whole and anybody even mildly supportive of the idea without even knowing the exact consequences or results.
Everyone is biased in some way, and there's a lot of things you can call me, but in a case like this... subjective isn't one of them. If there's one thing I pride myself on it's that I am always extremely careful before taking any side and attempt to gather as much information as possible before even attempting to do so.
Rules like these have been since at least wc3? What are you talking about m8? There was no rules in wc3 map making. There was total freedom in map content. There was no blizzard gm checking our maps. There was porn and racism in maps, and it was great. Now hold on before you make an angry post, nobody forced these things in your face. I'm talking about that having a freedom of choice was great. How people used it, was sometimes not so great, but I didn't see any racist map or such being hosted often so that there is few of them is not a problem.
These rules are very strict. Like dropping a f-bomb can get your map banned, that strict, which is ridiculous. And this isn't some legal mambo jambo to cover their asses. These are the guidelines which the gm's follow, and they are the ones who check EVERY MAP before it's put out there for people to play. You don't see a problem? Really, I've been called a blind blizzard fanboy more than once, but man you take the cake. This is bad for all map makers.
First of all, yes, rules like these existed in Warcraft 3. Not directly with the target of custom maps, but you did apply to terms of use when starting the editor that said that basically all your maps are belong to Blizzard.
Second; racist maps, I've never seen. There was alledgedly one map with 'porn' in it, and that was seriously mild, showing one erotic picture after completing a certain task. The worst I've come across was stuff like the earlier mentioned 'escape from gay heaven', and I'm not even sure whether they'd ban that now.
Third; According to the rules, using 'fuck' in your map can get you banned. Whether this actually means that you'll get a ban or suspension if you make one map where a character exlaims 'Fuck!' at some point... No. If you honestly believe this, you need to google 'terms of use'. I guess we'll see who'se right here.
Fourth; "Guidelines which the gms follow"? "Check every map"? What the hell have you been smoking? You realize you can just... you know, publish your maps, and play them? You're acting as if any map has to pass a 3-part test and judgement by Blizzard internals before you can even get to test it. This isn't the case. As far as we know, there aren't any GMs checking ANY maps that don't get reported. ESPECIALLY not "before it's put out there for people to play". Don't jump to conclusions.
Fifth; If you consider me a Blizzard fanboy, you haven't been around much. I'm one of the most objective people I've met. There's plenty of things about Starcraft that can rise concern, and even these terms of use can. But this is way overboard. Blizzard aren't fascists, and you would know this if you had EVER scrolled through ANY terms of use of ANY game. Claiming this is something new is even more stupid. If you happen to be a WoW player, go and take a look at that game's TOU - it basically tells you that Blizzard has the right to ban you for no reason at any time, log use and sell your chat messages and/or delete/alter your characters. It's been that way since Vanilla, which is about six years ago now.
what if i upload a map , and blizzard gives me a warning to remove the content or face being banned when im out of the country for a few months?? .. you know what else? on the sc2 forums i mentioned that "starcraft 2 has the worst ever moderators" (yes i know i should'nt have said that. but the response from blizzard went way over the board.. check the screen shot of what happened. ""PERMANENT BAN" http://i36.tinypic.com/hrg93o.jpg
this new draconian blizzard is not the old blizzard that we all fell in inlove with. Its garbage.
This is nothing new either. I was banned from the forums years ago, during vanilla WoW, for saying 'that sucks' in a post. Just because the forum moderators are strict, that doesn't make the entire company horrible?
Really, people are getting needlessly worked up over this. EVERY GAME IN EXISTENCE has these harsh rules written down somewhere, purely for court reasons. Especially with that whole 'map market' idea floating in the background, can you blame them for covering their asses legally? The stupid thing is that rules like these have been there since at least Warcraft 3, if not 2, and people are still yanking about a "good company gone bad". Do your effing research before making such claims.
If these terms of use truly inspire you to leave SC2 altogether, and you honestly agree with everything that has been posted in this thread so far, then great - buzz off. One less idiot to deal with, as House would say it.
Not sure why people are so riled up over this. They're basically terms of use, aren't they? Those are always hella strict. For the simple reason of giving them a huge edge should something be ever taken to court. They'd run into problems if they were somewhat mild in the rules and somebody did something bad; the guilty folks would just point out that whatever they created "wasn't banned according to the terms of use".
I doubt they're going to ban your risk map for being risk, tbh.
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You've done a pretty good job at step 3 and 4 already, so you're ahead of yourself. Step 2 can't be proven or disproven at the moment, which is all I'm saying. You want to go and believe in something without knowing whether or to what extend it's true? Be my guest and leave, I don't want you in my community anyway.
@Nekobebis: Go
You didn't bash me, so I see no need to return the favor. Your post actually makes some sense. My problem here is with the people on page one who are going nuts over this list of rules, abandoning all other thought - not with people who simply feel like Blizzard is losing touch with it's community. That's a legitimate concern and though there's a lot of debate possible to what extend it's true, it can't be denied that they are throwing down some fairly radical changes, at the least.
Yes, because we are all pulling this out of our asses right? Because this is the first time Blizzard has been this anal about something so completely stupid, right? Because, this is the first time people have complained about bad choices on blizzards part, and blizzard not making up for it.
Look at WoW 6 years ago. It was a great MMO that completely fucked all other MMO's ever to be created over the next two years back at release. It actually took time and dedication to actually get anywhere and you couldn't reach end-game in a month. Now look at what Blizzard has done to WoW simply because they want to appeal to a broader audience because that gets them more cash.
They want to pull in casuals who can pick up the game, and beat it in less than a month. You can pug the strongest fucking character ever to exist in lore and don't even have to try.
What has Blizzard done to bring back the old feeling of WoW that 80% of it's playerbase on a daily basis states they miss?
Not a damn thing. What about the gold spammers and gold farmers that hog up your channels and spam you randomly? Nothing's done.
They simply do not care about their player base anymore or their community.
How long as this popularity system been in place? And how long have people been complaining about it? I'll answer for you, the moment the system became flawed. And it's been quite a while.
A) It's not unlikely to be changed. We've all heard the messages about the whole map market thing, and it's certainly not a stretch that they're sorting out the details of all that before they throw in an entire new system of how popularity works.
B) Whether it's flawed is debatable. It certainly sounds bad, but if you want to throw in personal data, it's been working pretty well for me so far.
C) The game has only been out for a week or so. It's too short of a time to properly judge whether the system works. We'd need to check back in a month or three to have a clear statement.
There has been two patches to Starcraft in 2 weeks. Both that fix problems I've never even seen before. What about the count down timer that everyone complains about? What about this crappy popularity system that's been implemented that's killing maps I've never even heard of because they are at the bottom of the popularity list? Why did they water down multiplayer? What happened to the broad choice of units from the first Starcraft? Why is the game 60 dollars?
Also, you mention TOS's and UELA's. Have you read the map editors? It states that the map editor (Which this whole thread is based on) is not supported by Blizzard themselves, when they're the one's who used the damn editor to make the game in the first place. And that customer support will not help with Editor related issues. From what I've seen you guys post on here, custom maps are the soul and heart of Blizzards games, and Blizzard could give a shit less about the people who use the Editor, or they'd directly support the tool themselves. Blizzard wants to regulate something they don't even support.
It's not Terms of Use, it's "We want to make the game a nice place for little kids to enjoy and have fun playing! ^_^". Last time I checked, the Halo series was rated M, and Starcraft is a lot more violet than Halo. And look at the player base of Halo, or any console game for that matter. Most console games are rated M anyways.
tl;dr person the post is directed at is a moron.
Blizzard posts a set of terms of use, everybody goes absolutely MENTAL over it, claiming this is part of an elaborate scheme of 'Blizzards downfall', I point out that it might not be that bad though even readily admit that there might be something fishy going on about Blizzard.
You try and tell me that I'm not being more objective than someone who takes a simple post regarding rules on maps, judges an entire company by it and takes a stance against it, the company as a whole and anybody even mildly supportive of the idea without even knowing the exact consequences or results.
Everyone is biased in some way, and there's a lot of things you can call me, but in a case like this... subjective isn't one of them. If there's one thing I pride myself on it's that I am always extremely careful before taking any side and attempt to gather as much information as possible before even attempting to do so.
That is all.
First of all, yes, rules like these existed in Warcraft 3. Not directly with the target of custom maps, but you did apply to terms of use when starting the editor that said that basically all your maps are belong to Blizzard.
Second; racist maps, I've never seen. There was alledgedly one map with 'porn' in it, and that was seriously mild, showing one erotic picture after completing a certain task. The worst I've come across was stuff like the earlier mentioned 'escape from gay heaven', and I'm not even sure whether they'd ban that now.
Third; According to the rules, using 'fuck' in your map can get you banned. Whether this actually means that you'll get a ban or suspension if you make one map where a character exlaims 'Fuck!' at some point... No. If you honestly believe this, you need to google 'terms of use'. I guess we'll see who'se right here.
Fourth; "Guidelines which the gms follow"? "Check every map"? What the hell have you been smoking? You realize you can just... you know, publish your maps, and play them? You're acting as if any map has to pass a 3-part test and judgement by Blizzard internals before you can even get to test it. This isn't the case. As far as we know, there aren't any GMs checking ANY maps that don't get reported. ESPECIALLY not "before it's put out there for people to play". Don't jump to conclusions.
Fifth; If you consider me a Blizzard fanboy, you haven't been around much. I'm one of the most objective people I've met. There's plenty of things about Starcraft that can rise concern, and even these terms of use can. But this is way overboard. Blizzard aren't fascists, and you would know this if you had EVER scrolled through ANY terms of use of ANY game. Claiming this is something new is even more stupid. If you happen to be a WoW player, go and take a look at that game's TOU - it basically tells you that Blizzard has the right to ban you for no reason at any time, log use and sell your chat messages and/or delete/alter your characters. It's been that way since Vanilla, which is about six years ago now.
This is nothing new either. I was banned from the forums years ago, during vanilla WoW, for saying 'that sucks' in a post. Just because the forum moderators are strict, that doesn't make the entire company horrible?
Really, people are getting needlessly worked up over this. EVERY GAME IN EXISTENCE has these harsh rules written down somewhere, purely for court reasons. Especially with that whole 'map market' idea floating in the background, can you blame them for covering their asses legally? The stupid thing is that rules like these have been there since at least Warcraft 3, if not 2, and people are still yanking about a "good company gone bad". Do your effing research before making such claims.
If these terms of use truly inspire you to leave SC2 altogether, and you honestly agree with everything that has been posted in this thread so far, then great - buzz off. One less idiot to deal with, as House would say it.
Not sure why people are so riled up over this. They're basically terms of use, aren't they? Those are always hella strict. For the simple reason of giving them a huge edge should something be ever taken to court. They'd run into problems if they were somewhat mild in the rules and somebody did something bad; the guilty folks would just point out that whatever they created "wasn't banned according to the terms of use".
I doubt they're going to ban your risk map for being risk, tbh.