I think you should do something like at start preload everything and do something like waiting for things to initialize and after everything has loaded let everyone pick heroes etc.. so you only got a little bit of starting lag and not during gameplay or long loading times
Not sure about that, I used to do this back in wc3, and it resullted in a HUGE lagfest in the beginning, with a high propability of players disconnecting. Also, its basically no difference to a higher loading time. Either the map loads 15 seconds and is unplayable for 45 seconds or the map loads 1 minute :)
Hey Kueken didn't catch you on IRC lately but I'm going to put some more hours into the terrain tonight hopefully.
Should be ready I guess, then you can still decide whether or not you implent it of-course !
Since it is so hard to get games going with HLW's current popularity state, what about sharing Accounts and making friends with people, who like Hero Line Wars?
So, at least, we would have a somewhat solid base of players, which could play some games together.
Let me know, what you think of this: Would you want to participate in this? We could collect players in this thread or somewhere else, I could even include the accounts in the map, if so desired.
I will try a prototype for now, we will see, if people are interested.
I am usually up for a game, if I am online, but am not online that much.
EU:
Kueken.456
TheWatcher.477
Algirdyz.901
NA:
Slayur.236
SEA:
-
If this is indeed used, I probably have to create a forum for HLW.
Should I preload all units and heroes at map initialization? This would most likely reduce the ingame lag, but it would increase loading time by a LOT (we talk about 300%+ at least)
Have a "map initializing cutscene" thing (I remember some old TKoK on WC3 having something like it) before picking hero, where it loads all the creeps and heroes. An overall bar and one for that particular section of what it's loading would be really cool! Plus, it'd let you know just how much longer you're supposed to wait. And you could have less on the loading screen and more on the initialization part.
And, couldn't you also let people look at hero descriptions without loading the actual heroes, and when it was loaded it'd have the actual heroes show up too?
Edit: I think my problem with the "roach fins" is that they're a bit too big. They just seem too large for the limb holding them.
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
@Kueken531: Go
Have a "map initializing cutscene" thing (I remember some old TKoK on WC3 having something like it) before picking hero, where it loads all the creeps and heroes. An overall bar and one for that particular section of what it's loading would be really cool! Plus, it'd let you know just how much longer you're supposed to wait. And you could have less on the loading screen and more on the initialization part.
I played around for a little while. There are different methods of preloading units (like just placing them on the map, or use a specific preload function or apparently you can even use a preload xml table), however, the difference between them is marginal: 53 sec loading time for using the preload function vs 55 sec for just creating and killing any unit.
I just used a stopwatch, so this could very well be measuring inaccuray.
I made some comparisons.
All preloaded during loading screen: 53 seconds
All preloaded within an initalization cinematic without any delay: 18 sec loading time + one huge 35 sec badass lag = 53 sec ;). No progress bar or anything.
All preloaded in cinematic with a small delay between each preload, a little more smooth and you can show progress: 18 sec loading + 38 sec constant lags = 56 sec.
Since the cinematic really does not provide any advantage (it would be just a 2nd loading screen) and might be the cause for players dropping, I would tend to just increase the loading screen time. The reduced lag improves the ingame performance noticeable.
Quote:
And, couldn't you also let people look at hero descriptions without loading the actual heroes, and when it was loaded it'd have the actual heroes show up too?
Not sure, if I understand this correctly, but you can look at the descriptions without loading the actual hero unit. Currently, a hero will be loaded, when it is first picked.
Quote:
Edit: I think my problem with the "roach fins" is that they're a bit too big. They just seem too large for the limb holding them.
:)
I got much positive feedback on this one, so i will most likely keep it that way. But hey, you don't have to use it, do you? ;)
Uhh...when does NA get next ver? Lol we seem to be a (couple of) ver(s) behind..
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
in the game i played last night when we were going up against a serious wave that had killed a few of us we weren't able to get to the consumable shop so some reloaction may be necessary or everyone dies to quickly
also can you nerf the damage stim does to you? i'd quite like to be able to actually use it without dieing in 3 hits because of lost health
I've noticed that massing the top row units (in tier 2 & 3) will be more efficient than buying the expensive units once you are at a high income (60% to buying the next tier so to speak) because it simply overwhelms the opponents.
I played 2v3 with my brother against his friends today and we won because we knew the map better, but also because we could eventually just mass so much and there was nothing to be done about it. This might lead to another thing, you can currently upgrade your items to very limited levels. After a while it becomes impossible to keep up no matter how you play, perhaps intended to make sure games dont last too long. But if you could choose a game mode at the start for long game or short game where short would keep the current items and long would add more upgrades it could work.
One of the things warcraft 3 had was having the whole lane revealed, while I see you intend it to be the way it is now, perhaps you could at least reveal the area with the shop/right side so you can look at some items without running all the way back.
Also managed to win a 1v2 with only 9 lives left on my side.. epic battle and hard. I really love how you made a map similar to the old HLW, one of my favourite wc3 maps.
I've noticed that massing the top row units (in tier 2 3) will be more efficient than buying the expensive units once you are at a high income (60% to buying the next tier so to speak) because it simply overwhelms the opponents.
Depends on the enemy heroes, the top row units are weaker and easily killed by strong AoE attacks. Also massing them provides more experience and bounty for your enemies.
Quote:
I played 2v3 with my brother against his friends today and we won because we knew the map better, but also because we could eventually just mass so much and there was nothing to be done about it. This might lead to another thing, you can currently upgrade your items to very limited levels. After a while it becomes impossible to keep up no matter how you play, perhaps intended to make sure games dont last too long. But if you could choose a game mode at the start for long game or short game where short would keep the current items and long would add more upgrades it could work.
At map night, we were able to withstand almost everything, which was thrown at us one game. We eventually won, because we saved up several rounds for one huge badass push. It is hard to fight the stronger mobs, it requires good teamwork, spell usage and items, which is sort of the direction I wanted it to be.
You are right, of course, the items are quite limited and it might be a little too hard in the end.
Quote:
One of the things warcraft 3 had was having the whole lane revealed, while I see you intend it to be the way it is now, perhaps you could at least reveal the area with the shop/right side so you can look at some items without running all the way back.
This should be the case already, if it did not work that way, please send me a replay, it could be a bug.
Quote:
Also managed to win a 1v2 with only 9 lives left on my side.. epic battle and hard. I really love how you made a map similar to the old HLW, one of my favourite wc3 maps.
Thanks :)
Btw back in WC3, winning 1v5 or 2v5 was usually very easy, much easier than playing against a skilled team of equal size.
It seems no matter which side you are on, you will always see the bottom revealed, even when you are the top team. But when you are the bottom or top team the top is not revealed.
edit: Just checked this replay and in that one only I seem to have the bottom revealed while I'm the top team, perhaps there is something a little different bugged.
v0.9:
forward Xel-Naga tower now provides detection
YES!
Lol. I just found having to get an item for detect (I saw no other way for detect) really lame. But...with 2 of them out...it was an easy way to see the whole lane...
PS: You have a vision increasing helmet...what about a detecting one? That could be useful....
Warning: Inquisitive mind at work.
Warning: Insanity is on the horizon.
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Added a small bugfix.
Not sure about that, I used to do this back in wc3, and it resullted in a HUGE lagfest in the beginning, with a high propability of players disconnecting. Also, its basically no difference to a higher loading time. Either the map loads 15 seconds and is unplayable for 45 seconds or the map loads 1 minute :)
@Kueken531: Go
Hey Kueken didn't catch you on IRC lately but I'm going to put some more hours into the terrain tonight hopefully. Should be ready I guess, then you can still decide whether or not you implent it of-course !
Since it is so hard to get games going with HLW's current popularity state, what about sharing Accounts and making friends with people, who like Hero Line Wars?
So, at least, we would have a somewhat solid base of players, which could play some games together.
Let me know, what you think of this: Would you want to participate in this? We could collect players in this thread or somewhere else, I could even include the accounts in the map, if so desired.
I will try a prototype for now, we will see, if people are interested.
I am usually up for a game, if I am online, but am not online that much.
EU:
NA:
SEA:
If this is indeed used, I probably have to create a forum for HLW.
Have a "map initializing cutscene" thing (I remember some old TKoK on WC3 having something like it) before picking hero, where it loads all the creeps and heroes. An overall bar and one for that particular section of what it's loading would be really cool! Plus, it'd let you know just how much longer you're supposed to wait. And you could have less on the loading screen and more on the initialization part.
And, couldn't you also let people look at hero descriptions without loading the actual heroes, and when it was loaded it'd have the actual heroes show up too?
Edit: I think my problem with the "roach fins" is that they're a bit too big. They just seem too large for the limb holding them.
I played around for a little while. There are different methods of preloading units (like just placing them on the map, or use a specific preload function or apparently you can even use a preload xml table), however, the difference between them is marginal: 53 sec loading time for using the preload function vs 55 sec for just creating and killing any unit.
I just used a stopwatch, so this could very well be measuring inaccuray.
I made some comparisons.
Since the cinematic really does not provide any advantage (it would be just a 2nd loading screen) and might be the cause for players dropping, I would tend to just increase the loading screen time. The reduced lag improves the ingame performance noticeable.
Not sure, if I understand this correctly, but you can look at the descriptions without loading the actual hero unit. Currently, a hero will be loaded, when it is first picked.
:)
I got much positive feedback on this one, so i will most likely keep it that way. But hey, you don't have to use it, do you? ;)
Add me to the list, I'm rarely online but Kueken's got me on skype and can ask, and if I have time I'll definitely join!
TheWatcher.477
Can't wait to try it out on Map Night tomorrow :) We'll make a most badass HLW hero contest.
v0.8:
Uhh...when does NA get next ver? Lol we seem to be a (couple of) ver(s) behind..
Sorry, my NA publisher is unable to publish currently. Might take a couple of days.
in the game i played last night when we were going up against a serious wave that had killed a few of us we weren't able to get to the consumable shop so some reloaction may be necessary or everyone dies to quickly
also can you nerf the damage stim does to you? i'd quite like to be able to actually use it without dieing in 3 hits because of lost health
I've noticed that massing the top row units (in tier 2 & 3) will be more efficient than buying the expensive units once you are at a high income (60% to buying the next tier so to speak) because it simply overwhelms the opponents.
I played 2v3 with my brother against his friends today and we won because we knew the map better, but also because we could eventually just mass so much and there was nothing to be done about it. This might lead to another thing, you can currently upgrade your items to very limited levels. After a while it becomes impossible to keep up no matter how you play, perhaps intended to make sure games dont last too long. But if you could choose a game mode at the start for long game or short game where short would keep the current items and long would add more upgrades it could work.
One of the things warcraft 3 had was having the whole lane revealed, while I see you intend it to be the way it is now, perhaps you could at least reveal the area with the shop/right side so you can look at some items without running all the way back.
Also managed to win a 1v2 with only 9 lives left on my side.. epic battle and hard. I really love how you made a map similar to the old HLW, one of my favourite wc3 maps.
Depends on the enemy heroes, the top row units are weaker and easily killed by strong AoE attacks. Also massing them provides more experience and bounty for your enemies.
At map night, we were able to withstand almost everything, which was thrown at us one game. We eventually won, because we saved up several rounds for one huge badass push. It is hard to fight the stronger mobs, it requires good teamwork, spell usage and items, which is sort of the direction I wanted it to be.
You are right, of course, the items are quite limited and it might be a little too hard in the end.
This should be the case already, if it did not work that way, please send me a replay, it could be a bug.
Thanks :)
Btw back in WC3, winning 1v5 or 2v5 was usually very easy, much easier than playing against a skilled team of equal size.
@Kueken531: Go
It seems no matter which side you are on, you will always see the bottom revealed, even when you are the top team. But when you are the bottom or top team the top is not revealed.
edit: Just checked this replay and in that one only I seem to have the bottom revealed while I'm the top team, perhaps there is something a little different bugged.
v0.9:
Last part includes the mentioned vision bugs
YES! Lol. I just found having to get an item for detect (I saw no other way for detect) really lame. But...with 2 of them out...it was an easy way to see the whole lane...
PS: You have a vision increasing helmet...what about a detecting one? That could be useful....
V0.9 is now available on the US
@Kueken531: Go
Add me to the list. Algirdyz.901 (EU)
It was my favorite map in wc3 and it will probably be in sc2, but I never get the chance to try it out. No people actually play it.
add me for NA josephmackeyii
We might need your character number
How's HLW going? I haven't been able to play because the NA servers are too quiet (it hasn't been updated! :( )