//Last update - June 6 - Sorry for no updates. Burnt out on project for the last bit. Hope to hit it hard again soon and finish it up. Hopefully can get a test done this week.
Cat N Mouse Hills - Left side is pretty flat. Right side is hills with a valley. Less room to build on hills but better view point and more minerals. Flatt areas have more space and less micromanaging intensive getaway options.
---Why? Terrain levels makes players actually work together. Sure you can go in the valley with all the minerals but if someone isn't watching your back the cat can come down and get you in a second
Quick about me:
Also I doubt you have met me online but I went by Drillhyde, then Deburner in SC:BW and Deburner in the SC2 Beta. I have made some Cat N Mouse Maps for broodwar ranging from quite terrible to pretty polished (Cat N Mouse Volcano-unfortunately a little too complex for CnM).
Progress [70%] - Estimated Alpha Test June 2, 2010 (pm me or reply below)
--Triggers [95%] - Just have to duplicate for different buying items. Maybe some slight alterations
------Additional Conditions/Actions [100%] - everything I need to make triggers
--Units[40%] - Minimal work on Cat units. Need to work on mouse units
--Map[75%] - balancing/add buying area & decorating
--Balancing[20%] -
--Buyable Stuff [40%] - Have general buying trigger done. need to decide what is buyable and such
Problems with all past Cat N Mouse maps.
---Being Cat
Fixed with you can call cat by typing "cat", or "i want cat", etc in first five seconds. otherwise it's random
---Cat Always Not Equal To Mouse
I'm working on making the Cat have a decent chance all the time. This way mice can't be sloppy. Also testing instead of flat out release
---Mouse is Too Cheap
Unit balancing again
---Buying Stuff, Dt's get in eachothers way
I added blink to them. I also added a trigger so you if you decide to blink out of buying area you get teleported back asap.
---Mice always get to run
The map is balanced more so that you need to micromanage your units to win (Mice and cats)
---Cat Camps
Respawn on jail only when brought to the jail. Not if a mouse is just chilling there
--Lose Track of Cat or Mouse
It's a hero. Mouse not a worker although can still mine. Top Right of the command bar to select your mouse or cat.
Cat Details -> http://forums.sc2mapster.com/development/project-workplace/2306-cat-n-mouse-hills-alpha-testing-wednesday/?post=12
KNOWN Problems:
Baby Cat -> Cat (model does not change size, everything else works)
I need testers. Please PM me.
I too have been working on a CnM map, however I am failure at the map editor as it stands. I was pretty good with the SC1 editor though, I used Starforge or whatever it was called. I will give you the ideas I wish I had the ability to implement in my map and maybe you can gleam something from it.
Btw, I loved the CnM for SC, especially when the cats were humans [human > comp].
Unit Ideas -
The names will pretty bland and unfluffy for now, but if you'd like I could work on it later.
Mice:
In general I believe the mouse should, of course, be a probe. Also, mouse units should be Terran and Protoss, whilst the zerg make up the ranks of cats.
Mecha-Mouse - In the vein of the whole SCV mouse that could build terran specific buildings that were helpful, but expensive. [i.e. bunkers/supply depots/stronger walls]
Medic - I really loved medic walling in BW[along with DT/Cloaked walling], in just about every map [including Racoon City, which I'd love to see remade. Anyone remember that map?]
Sentry Turret - Raven's turret, modified, weak. In general I believe its the mice's job to lead the cat into a trap, so trap-themed power ups would be good.
Decoy Mouse - Probe with offensive capabilities to catch some cat player's unaware or a snare.
Arbiter - Protoss transport [can't recall the name for the life of me] with unit cloaking abilities and a very short stasis ability that consumes a lot of energy [used as a 'get away'].
Transport Ideas - Hellions that can transport [though I don't particularly like the idea, I think the mouse player's only real "strong" counter to the cat should be in an air transport, it always seemed more epic to me, which of course the cat could get anti-air around the time most mice players are rolling around in the air.]
Observer - Not sure if you plan on having the map revealed the mice or not, but the observer was always a good unit to have IMO.
Power Ups -
Get out of Jail Card - When killed you respawn in the jail as a probe.
Cats -
Scourge like Anti-Air, JailGuard [sunken colonies/spores colonies/lurker type unit], fleas [zerglings]. Man, I'm sure these seem very unimaginative, but I've had writer's block strike me during the entirety of this post.
Power ups -
Cheese Raid - Kills all pylons [or the mouse's primary "wall" building.]
Bubonic Outbreak - Plague's buildings to low HP, fleas spawn in waves for 30 seconds.
Unfortunate Strike - Kills X unit and spawns fleas at X unit's death. [perhaps mecha-mice.]
Exterminator - Drops nukes randomly for 60 seconds, cat becomes immune to damage during this time and perhaps may be stuck/guarding at the jail area.
Mouse Trap - Traps [maybe those sentry turrets from earlier?] are spawned at random points.
Poison - Random nodes become poisonous, if any mouse interact with the mineral they die.
If inspiration hits me again I will edit this post, hope this at least gives you some better ideas.
@Hartgarde:
Already had done a Hellion Transport. I think it will be pretty fair that way. I'm trying to stay away from air units but I don't know yet. I also just did the map and forgot to put the buying area X/ wondered why I ended up with so much space.
Tech mouse is definitely happening. Along with the rines. I am thinking about whatever those things that jump are as I have some cliffs.
Some really good ideas. I'll cred if I use any.
I was thinking about a teleport upgrade for the mice but I'm not sure if that wouldn't be ridiculous.
Well, mice don't need too many oh sh!t buttons, IMO and teleport would be pretty tedious especially if a cat had just gnawed through an entire base and lost most of its teeth along the way just to have the mouse go poof. Instead you might consider putting tunnels that teleport the mouse somewhere in the general area that way the mouse is tied to the terrain around him, instead of jetting half-away across the map. Entrance/exit tunnel. Maybe a small blink?
Reapers with flame throwers [Hellion's thing.] would be pretty cool.. I miss firebats.. Though, I'm not entirely sure why mice would need a unit with so much offensive capability like that. [It always seemed they were more geared towards defense.] I think air units are fair as long as the cat player(s) have counters that are pretty extreme, i.e. scourge units like in BW. I don't think cats need anything like mutas, but maybe, it wouldn't seem that fair for a single muta to snipe a mouse.
Does the Hellion transport have a nitro function? That'd be pretty slick. Or an oil slick... or a grappling hook.
One other thing you could do is search up mouse traps, like that messed up glue they use and figuring a way to implement in the map. Maybe a "sticky" tile that snares the mouse player. The snare would have HP and would have to be destroyed before the mouse was let free.
GL.
ED: Just found a rat/mouse trap that is called the Rat Zapper 2000, kills the mouse/rat instantly with a shock.
If your planning to make a fun decoy mouse, make one that isn't able to attack or gather, but blows up causing immense damage to massive units once killed(from a mice point of view, cats are massive). To let the cat determine if it's a fake, they'd have to click on it to read it's name, as it looks exactly like a probe.
Having it so it does [15 (vs Massive 50)] could work.
Cat and Mice should have attributes that gives them advantages and disadvantages.
For the Cats, they've got their biological and/or massive attributes.
For the Mice, they've got the miniature attribute.
Cat (Ultralisk) should do bonus damage to miniature units, like mice and it's army, while the smaller cats doesn't gain that advantage.
Let the Cat keep it's area attack, and allow it to have it's separate attacks VS structures.
The Cat n Mouse Jungle Classic map you see flying around is imbalanced, with modest units able to outnumber and outfight a cat.
A Zealot costs 150 minerals, 50/150 life and 50x2 Damage...
It's the damage that makes it a OP, plus the fact that the cat does only 10 to zealots???
When publishing a map, avoid publishing it out of excitement, for a game that revolves around pure balance, you have to test it privately before you publish it publicly.
A melee unit costing 150 minerals, shouldn't do 50 but 25x2, and Cats should do 30 (vs Light 50) and 60 VS Structures.
It gets much worser oh no, if you have less than a full house, 1 of the mice turns into a cat ally... >_>
@dra6o0n:
yeah while jungle is fun, (definitely not the best by any means) it has a game for cats.
The chance of winning for a cat if they have not killed a mouse drops dramatically with the time they've been playing. A good player can still finish off a decent mouse player in ~15 minutes but after that the cat is just really toast.
Space was somewhat fair although I did not like the size of the map.
Winter was my all around favorite map. Very balanced. Good units. Unfortunately jungle and the random cat mouse & toys & 600 other units overshadowed it.
-----------------
End of rant
I do plan on having a beta test as soon as I have the game around 85% complete. That means probably next week. I'll need to do things like check pricing on units since it is only possible to estimate a good cost. Obviously as much as it would be fun to give the mice a bunch of stuff the cat needs to be able to hold his own.
Glad I'm getting some contributions. Maybe I can throw up some pics later. However internet connection is real busy at the moment downloading the starcraft updates (i'm behind a bit)
The Cat n Mouse Jungle Classic map you see flying around is imbalanced, with modest units able to outnumber and outfight a cat.
A Zealot costs 150 minerals, 50/150 life and 50x2 Damage...
It's the damage that makes it a OP, plus the fact that the cat does only 10 to zealots???
When publishing a map, avoid publishing it out of excitement, for a game that revolves around pure balance, you have to test it privately before you publish it publicly.
A melee unit costing 150 minerals, shouldn't do 50 but 25x2, and Cats should do 30 (vs Light 50) and 60 VS Structures.
It gets much worser oh no, if you have less than a full house, 1 of the mice turns into a cat ally... >_>
Check your trigger and debug it!
That map is ridiculous-imbalanced. Not to mention if you kill one of the cats the other is a guaranteed kill because you get like 5K minerals, which is ridiculous. The cat/mouse ally bug got fixed recently, I think. That was annoying as well, if a mouse leaves it should be killed/removed/deleted/buried six feet under. The attributes is a great idea, by the way. Increased damage vs mini-units is a nice touch. If a cat is killed don't saturate its killer with funding, instead I think it should be distributed amongst the mice players, otherwise the killer could just spam units and corner the other cat. Also, when a mouse dies it shouldn't be able to purchase units until its been rescued. I was in a game where that happened, a mouse killed a cat and the other cat got the mouse. The mouse then bought 12 zealots and chased down the other cat and it was game.
Ideas -
Mouse Ability: Scamper [Long CD] - Increases speed to get away from danger.
Cat Ability: Rabies [Energy Consumption] - Increases damage and attack speed for X seconds and leaves a decay effect on target.
Not the most original ideas, I'll admit, but maybe you can spring board them into something spectacular.
@Hartgarde:
nice ideas. definitely had not really thought of adding abilities to units. the lovely editor keeps bugging out though if i change some things and i have to reset half of the unit's i just edited values back.
abilities may come into play.
i just added a baby cat. faster but turns slower and weaker.
also the reward system for the cat. all buildings/units have a field that allows minerals to be awarded to the kill w/o a trigger (thank God). Current breakdown:
Current Available items:
Dragon $1000 (Low Health but Flying with damage)
Spy $150 (Basically in the base look at the mice. may add a cloaking upgrade for say $75)
Ground Unit $300-$350 (low health (decent base can take it but player needs to paying attention. basically something that can chase mice through holes etc.)
Baby Cat $500
Jail Guard $100 (whatever the sunken replacement is. removed ability to unburrow)
Planned Items:
Attack Upgrades $50,$75,$100
Shield Upgrades ""
Speed Upgrade $100
Ultralisk Shield Upgrade $100
Current Rewards:
$1 for any pylon
$2 for any small unit (<$50 minerals to make excluding mouse and tech mouse)
$3 for any nonwall building
$5 for any normal unit ($50-$100 minerals)
$6 for any wall building
$8 for any tech mouse/command center
$10 for any good unit... not sure what yet ($100 - $200 aka dropship, planes)
$15 for Nexus
$20 for any good unit (>$200 minerals)
$100 for mouse (the max amount for a single kill)
Thoughts on pricing? This is probably one of the hardest parts is to make the Cat not seem screwed over but not to make him all powerful very quickly
Also upgrade baby cat to a regular cat? Maybe like $800 minerals?? Makes it possible but rather costly total of $1300 minerals
I wouldn't make Nexus give so much $$$, I know in SC1 it was sometimes advantageous to build up a bunch of Nexi[sp?] to wall off a section or mislead the cat player.
Pricing, yeah, that will be a complete hassle. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it till later. However, I'd love to see you rename the Stalker to Dragoon [only because Dragoon > Stalker. I just love the old SC1 units :( ]. Maybe put Nexus at $5 instead of $15, the $15 just seems way too steep to me.
Baby Cat, yeah you could give him a metamorphosis [like Muta -> Guardian/Lisk -> Lurker.] I think that would add a nice touch to the map, the cocoon could be called Growing Up, harhar.
Dragon [I'm guessing this will be the Mutalisk.] - You could rename this to Bird of Prey or some such nonsense. Or Genetically Engineered Cat G.E.C.. Perhaps not, just an idea though.
Spy [Overlord.] - You SHOULD rename this Cat's Eye JUST for the bad assery of it. Maybe give it a cool ability that is slightly useful. Like a drop an egg, named Cat Dropping, that would server as a "Scout Tower" of sorts.
Baby Cat [Ling.] - Possible names: Deformed Kitten, Kitten, Mangled Kitten. I'm sure you have this in mind, but, the baby cat should be quicker than the adult cat.
Ground Unit [Ranged] - Name: Tom Cat - Unit: Roach?
Ground Unit [Melee] - Name: Lynx - Unit: Melee Lisk?
I'll kick around ideas for a better pricing guideline, but for this will have to do. Hope this helps.
Yeah I am definitely adding two more ground units (one weak melee and one medium range) and an observer for cat
For mice I am thinking on them. I have changed the terran tech tree to allow reapers and marauders. Both can do some damage but cost a bit and are not good to lose. Only two buyable units at the moment.
Alpha Test This Week
PM Me to get in
also check the top post for a more detailed look at the project
I haven't updated in a bit. I got some more done on the map. I have been slow on the project because I did get burnt out.
Cat is 99% done! except for balancing after testing
Details:
1. To play as cat you must type some form of cat in a chat message within 5 seconds of game start or before any other player. In the event no one "calls" cat, one player is randomly selected to be the cat.
2. Buying units. Everything is based in minerals sort of like Cat N Mouse Jungle. Mice = $100 minerals. Buildings and other units can be worth as much as $10 but avg is most likely around $4. Upgrades are available at an evolution chamber within the buying area. You can purchase all three levels of melee weapons and shields there. You can also purchase the two ultralisk specific upgrades.
Units available:
$100 - Jail Guard - Spawns near the jail essentially acts like a sunken from sc1. Can purchase multiple but unadvisable
$150 - Spy - Basically a fake mouse. The observer of the game. Infiltrate/block/ do what you can. Based on changeling ability
$200 - Evil Mouse - Zergling, chase mice down, can go through mouse holes, low damage low health but cheap
$325 - Snake - Hydra, shoot down planes, take care of small units, block off mice exits, sneak attacks
$500 - Baby Cat - slower, lower damage, no ultralisk upgrade benefits, $800 to upgrade to Cat
$1000 - Dragon - mutalisk, can attack ground & air units. basically useful for assaulting mice in their supposedly safe bases
3. Cats lose if there are 0 full grown Cats on the field. They win if all the mice (probes) are captured.
4. There is no plan for a second cat slot. However other than the setup triggers (eg calling cat, creating chooser, upgrade center, and cat) it is possible since I did not associate a single player with cat. It's not quite that simple as there is one section that would involve some slight changes but nonetheless highly possible if the game seems to call for two. I may have to come up with rules to allow the second slot to be open or closed.
5.There is no computer cat as of now. Making a decent Cat AI would take more time than the map itself. Using the general ai commands, cats are extremely easy and the only way to make a decent one is to send waves of enemies which I frankly don't want to do. There will be no computer cat in any foreseeable future.
I currently only have one bug and that is the model for the baby cat once using the grow up ability (it changes it into a cat) the model for some reason stays the same. Everything else changes. I have no clue why. I would put pics up but its Cat N Mouse and a fairly straightforward map.
You should focus on balancing it not to fixed mineral amounts, but to how much minerals the mice team gathers within a certain period of time.
Costs:
Every units that the mice can buy should fit in the multipliers of 5 mineral, seeing how normal minerals gives 5.
Be sure to balance such amount so the mice can't just share resources and spam units to win instantly.
Note on Cats:
Since mice are tiny and aren't meant to attack cats, have a working attributes set up so...
Normal units (anti-cat-minion units) = Low base damage to Cats (+ bonus to minions)
Power units (anti-cat units) = decent base damage to normal units (+bonus to Cats)
So in general:
1) Give cats bonus attribute to light or armored units.
2) Give mice bonus attribute to light or massive units.
This is so you don't have mice gathering heaps of zealots that do heaps of damage to all units, including cats, for a decent price. Be sure to give a good amount of armor to cats to balance out the initial early game (so early game would make cats seems powerful and impervious to attacks).
Also, make sure end game units aren't uber powerful just to smack the cats in the face, just make them strategically powerful in some kind of end, so the mice can "trap" a cat using their intelligence I guess.
Basically, to end my post with more notes:
- Try to give the two teams different approach to battles.
- Try to make the perspective of strength and weakness to be shown visibly (cats bigger than mouse).
- Try to use attributes to further balance unit types vs unit types, heck even a 0 (+ bonus) can still work.
- Make the players use strategy over pure power struggles (it isn't fun when mice are toe to toe with cats using only simple units).
More ideas:
Give cats the option to use traps, and label them "mouse traps", and they can function like one. They should cloak and require detection to be destroyed, but only attacks and immobile 1 unit.
Mouse Trap - Item/Unit - 10hp - Cats can buy and drop a mouse trap on the floor. Deals 15 (vs 30 to light) and immobile 1 unit for 30 seconds. Cloaked, and reveals to cats if a trap goes off. Lasts 180 seconds (3 minutes).
This makes mouse traps deadly and requires mice to be smarter about roaming the map. Especially useful when cats lay this outside a mouse hole and scares the moues into it by charging in from another direction. Just make the item cost a decent amount of minerals.
With the Cats being able to use traps, have mice be able to salvage traps and other sorts of items laid around the map. Salvaging items gives either allows them to gain some minerals, or allow them to construct counter traps.
What about cheese? As a item, maybe you can implement some sort of resource called cheese, that is used for creating advanced unit? So traps can be managed by disguising it as a piece of cheese? This mean from time to time, random number of cheese items should appear on the map, forcing the mice to venture out and gather them.
Heck, maybe all these ideas can work if someone made a Cat & Mouse: Mansion or something, where most of the food to be collected is found in the kitchen...
@ilikeitontop: Go
I too have been working on a CnM map, however I am failure at the map editor as it stands. I was pretty good with the SC1 editor though, I used Starforge or whatever it was called. I will give you the ideas I wish I had the ability to implement in my map and maybe you can gleam something from it.
Btw, I loved the CnM for SC, especially when the cats were humans [human > comp].
Unit Ideas -
The names will pretty bland and unfluffy for now, but if you'd like I could work on it later.
Mice:
In general I believe the mouse should, of course, be a probe. Also, mouse units should be Terran and Protoss, whilst the zerg make up the ranks of cats.
Mecha-Mouse - In the vein of the whole SCV mouse that could build terran specific buildings that were helpful, but expensive. [i.e. bunkers/supply depots/stronger walls]
Medic - I really loved medic walling in BW[along with DT/Cloaked walling], in just about every map [including Racoon City, which I'd love to see remade. Anyone remember that map?]
Sentry Turret - Raven's turret, modified, weak. In general I believe its the mice's job to lead the cat into a trap, so trap-themed power ups would be good.
Decoy Mouse - Probe with offensive capabilities to catch some cat player's unaware or a snare.
Arbiter - Protoss transport [can't recall the name for the life of me] with unit cloaking abilities and a very short stasis ability that consumes a lot of energy [used as a 'get away'].
Transport Ideas - Hellions that can transport [though I don't particularly like the idea, I think the mouse player's only real "strong" counter to the cat should be in an air transport, it always seemed more epic to me, which of course the cat could get anti-air around the time most mice players are rolling around in the air.]
Observer - Not sure if you plan on having the map revealed the mice or not, but the observer was always a good unit to have IMO.
Power Ups -
Get out of Jail Card - When killed you respawn in the jail as a probe.
Cats -
Scourge like Anti-Air, JailGuard [sunken colonies/spores colonies/lurker type unit], fleas [zerglings]. Man, I'm sure these seem very unimaginative, but I've had writer's block strike me during the entirety of this post.
Power ups -
Cheese Raid - Kills all pylons [or the mouse's primary "wall" building.]
Bubonic Outbreak - Plague's buildings to low HP, fleas spawn in waves for 30 seconds.
Unfortunate Strike - Kills X unit and spawns fleas at X unit's death. [perhaps mecha-mice.]
Exterminator - Drops nukes randomly for 60 seconds, cat becomes immune to damage during this time and perhaps may be stuck/guarding at the jail area.
Mouse Trap - Traps [maybe those sentry turrets from earlier?] are spawned at random points.
Poison - Random nodes become poisonous, if any mouse interact with the mineral they die.
If inspiration hits me again I will edit this post, hope this at least gives you some better ideas.
GL.
@ilikeitontop: Go
Well, mice don't need too many oh sh!t buttons, IMO and teleport would be pretty tedious especially if a cat had just gnawed through an entire base and lost most of its teeth along the way just to have the mouse go poof. Instead you might consider putting tunnels that teleport the mouse somewhere in the general area that way the mouse is tied to the terrain around him, instead of jetting half-away across the map. Entrance/exit tunnel. Maybe a small blink?
Reapers with flame throwers [Hellion's thing.] would be pretty cool.. I miss firebats.. Though, I'm not entirely sure why mice would need a unit with so much offensive capability like that. [It always seemed they were more geared towards defense.] I think air units are fair as long as the cat player(s) have counters that are pretty extreme, i.e. scourge units like in BW. I don't think cats need anything like mutas, but maybe, it wouldn't seem that fair for a single muta to snipe a mouse.
Does the Hellion transport have a nitro function? That'd be pretty slick. Or an oil slick... or a grappling hook.
One other thing you could do is search up mouse traps, like that messed up glue they use and figuring a way to implement in the map. Maybe a "sticky" tile that snares the mouse player. The snare would have HP and would have to be destroyed before the mouse was let free.
GL.
ED: Just found a rat/mouse trap that is called the Rat Zapper 2000, kills the mouse/rat instantly with a shock.
ED2: Link if anyone wants to see it, lol.
http://www.ratmousezapper.com/_inv/rat-zapper-2000.html?gclid=COzxlfKHl5wCFRkMDQodXWl3eg
If your planning to make a fun decoy mouse, make one that isn't able to attack or gather, but blows up causing immense damage to massive units once killed(from a mice point of view, cats are massive). To let the cat determine if it's a fake, they'd have to click on it to read it's name, as it looks exactly like a probe.
Having it so it does [15 (vs Massive 50)] could work.
Cat and Mice should have attributes that gives them advantages and disadvantages.
For the Cats, they've got their biological and/or massive attributes. For the Mice, they've got the miniature attribute.
Cat (Ultralisk) should do bonus damage to miniature units, like mice and it's army, while the smaller cats doesn't gain that advantage.
Let the Cat keep it's area attack, and allow it to have it's separate attacks VS structures.
The Cat n Mouse Jungle Classic map you see flying around is imbalanced, with modest units able to outnumber and outfight a cat.
A Zealot costs 150 minerals, 50/150 life and 50x2 Damage...
It's the damage that makes it a OP, plus the fact that the cat does only 10 to zealots???
When publishing a map, avoid publishing it out of excitement, for a game that revolves around pure balance, you have to test it privately before you publish it publicly.
A melee unit costing 150 minerals, shouldn't do 50 but 25x2, and Cats should do 30 (vs Light 50) and 60 VS Structures.
It gets much worser oh no, if you have less than a full house, 1 of the mice turns into a cat ally... >_>
Check your trigger and debug it!
That map is ridiculous-imbalanced. Not to mention if you kill one of the cats the other is a guaranteed kill because you get like 5K minerals, which is ridiculous. The cat/mouse ally bug got fixed recently, I think. That was annoying as well, if a mouse leaves it should be killed/removed/deleted/buried six feet under. The attributes is a great idea, by the way. Increased damage vs mini-units is a nice touch. If a cat is killed don't saturate its killer with funding, instead I think it should be distributed amongst the mice players, otherwise the killer could just spam units and corner the other cat. Also, when a mouse dies it shouldn't be able to purchase units until its been rescued. I was in a game where that happened, a mouse killed a cat and the other cat got the mouse. The mouse then bought 12 zealots and chased down the other cat and it was game.
Ideas -
Mouse Ability: Scamper [Long CD] - Increases speed to get away from danger.
Cat Ability: Rabies [Energy Consumption] - Increases damage and attack speed for X seconds and leaves a decay effect on target.
Not the most original ideas, I'll admit, but maybe you can spring board them into something spectacular.
@ilikeitontop: Go
I wouldn't make Nexus give so much $$$, I know in SC1 it was sometimes advantageous to build up a bunch of Nexi[sp?] to wall off a section or mislead the cat player.
Pricing, yeah, that will be a complete hassle. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it till later. However, I'd love to see you rename the Stalker to Dragoon [only because Dragoon > Stalker. I just love the old SC1 units :( ]. Maybe put Nexus at $5 instead of $15, the $15 just seems way too steep to me.
Baby Cat, yeah you could give him a metamorphosis [like Muta -> Guardian/Lisk -> Lurker.] I think that would add a nice touch to the map, the cocoon could be called Growing Up, harhar.
Dragon [I'm guessing this will be the Mutalisk.] - You could rename this to Bird of Prey or some such nonsense. Or Genetically Engineered Cat G.E.C.. Perhaps not, just an idea though.
Spy [Overlord.] - You SHOULD rename this Cat's Eye JUST for the bad assery of it. Maybe give it a cool ability that is slightly useful. Like a drop an egg, named Cat Dropping, that would server as a "Scout Tower" of sorts.
Baby Cat [Ling.] - Possible names: Deformed Kitten, Kitten, Mangled Kitten. I'm sure you have this in mind, but, the baby cat should be quicker than the adult cat.
Ground Unit [Ranged] - Name: Tom Cat - Unit: Roach? Ground Unit [Melee] - Name: Lynx - Unit: Melee Lisk?
I'll kick around ideas for a better pricing guideline, but for this will have to do. Hope this helps.
Yeah I am definitely adding two more ground units (one weak melee and one medium range) and an observer for cat
For mice I am thinking on them. I have changed the terran tech tree to allow reapers and marauders. Both can do some damage but cost a bit and are not good to lose. Only two buyable units at the moment.
Alpha Test This Week
PM Me to get in
also check the top post for a more detailed look at the project
You should focus on balancing it not to fixed mineral amounts, but to how much minerals the mice team gathers within a certain period of time.
Costs:
Every units that the mice can buy should fit in the multipliers of 5 mineral, seeing how normal minerals gives 5.
Be sure to balance such amount so the mice can't just share resources and spam units to win instantly.
Note on Cats:
Since mice are tiny and aren't meant to attack cats, have a working attributes set up so...
Normal units (anti-cat-minion units) = Low base damage to Cats (+ bonus to minions)
Power units (anti-cat units) = decent base damage to normal units (+bonus to Cats)
So in general:
1) Give cats bonus attribute to light or armored units.
2) Give mice bonus attribute to light or massive units.
This is so you don't have mice gathering heaps of zealots that do heaps of damage to all units, including cats, for a decent price. Be sure to give a good amount of armor to cats to balance out the initial early game (so early game would make cats seems powerful and impervious to attacks).
Also, make sure end game units aren't uber powerful just to smack the cats in the face, just make them strategically powerful in some kind of end, so the mice can "trap" a cat using their intelligence I guess.
Basically, to end my post with more notes:
- Try to give the two teams different approach to battles.
- Try to make the perspective of strength and weakness to be shown visibly (cats bigger than mouse).
- Try to use attributes to further balance unit types vs unit types, heck even a 0 (+ bonus) can still work.
- Make the players use strategy over pure power struggles (it isn't fun when mice are toe to toe with cats using only simple units).
More ideas:
Give cats the option to use traps, and label them "mouse traps", and they can function like one. They should cloak and require detection to be destroyed, but only attacks and immobile 1 unit.
Mouse Trap - Item/Unit - 10hp - Cats can buy and drop a mouse trap on the floor. Deals 15 (vs 30 to light) and immobile 1 unit for 30 seconds. Cloaked, and reveals to cats if a trap goes off. Lasts 180 seconds (3 minutes).
This makes mouse traps deadly and requires mice to be smarter about roaming the map. Especially useful when cats lay this outside a mouse hole and scares the moues into it by charging in from another direction. Just make the item cost a decent amount of minerals.
With the Cats being able to use traps, have mice be able to salvage traps and other sorts of items laid around the map. Salvaging items gives either allows them to gain some minerals, or allow them to construct counter traps.
What about cheese? As a item, maybe you can implement some sort of resource called cheese, that is used for creating advanced unit? So traps can be managed by disguising it as a piece of cheese? This mean from time to time, random number of cheese items should appear on the map, forcing the mice to venture out and gather them.
Heck, maybe all these ideas can work if someone made a Cat & Mouse: Mansion or something, where most of the food to be collected is found in the kitchen...